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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: new resident ()
Date: November 08, 2013 12:39PM

Just bought a house in west springfield and it needs a new hvac system. It has gas heat but I was thinking about having a heat pump installed. Heat pump has higher efficency and lower install cost. I used heat pump in western maryland foe decades with great results. One of my new neighbors heats with oil and says its great. Local opinions please? Thanks!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Leroy ()
Date: November 08, 2013 12:40PM

BBQ grill inside. Charcoal.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Space Heater ()
Date: November 08, 2013 12:48PM

No, not oil.

Either heat pump or gas. If the heat pump is less expensive (which I'm not sure actually is right unless maybe you're counting the AC side as well), then that would be the better way to go since you're getting new heating and cooling both at one cost. The heat pump will work just as well or better here than in what likely were colder minimum temps in MD.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Curmudgeon ()
Date: November 08, 2013 02:12PM

would suggest staying away from heat pump. in extreme cold (extreme for here) it just runs all the time and fails to heat effectively. cheaper in moderate weather tho.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Not a thermodynamic expert ()
Date: November 08, 2013 02:27PM

Heat pumps are good for moderate winters (upper 30's, low 40's). When it gets really cold, it's cheaper to burn gas than run the electric heating elements that have to supplement heat pump systems. Under those conditions, heat pumps on their own just can't move enough heat into your house from the outside.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: WestSpringfieldDude ()
Date: November 08, 2013 02:39PM

Tens years ago I went dual-fuel. I have a 14 SEER heat pump and a high efficiency gas furnace. I also have a gas fired instantaneous water heater. At the time it was the best blend of bang for the buck and efficency. It's comfortable all year round. I think the switchover to the gas furnace is unscientifically programmed to occur at outdoor temps below 42deg.

I could have gone for a more expensive 16 or 17 SEER heatpump but the payback would have been much longer. I was better off spending the extra money for a 16 SEER heat pump over 14 SEER on insulation instead.

Having said all that, the newer heat pumps might change change my decsion if I were to make it today.

I wish we had access to natural gas burning ceramic fuel cell technology like the BlueGen. 85% total efficency, provides both heat and electricity.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: no more hvac ads on ffux !!! ()
Date: November 08, 2013 02:59PM

you forgot gas heating.

kerosene is very efficient but dangerous.

wood burning stoves are also very efficient, but tedious.

electric is less efficient but are the newer models both more the most safe and most reliable of options ?

why not oil? i've been in a house that had it and it was safe and reliable. they said gas would be cheaper: when they installed it. now it's more expensive !! and installing and maintaining is more expensive and dangerous.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Stinker ()
Date: November 08, 2013 03:16PM

no more hvac ads on ffux !!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> why not oil? i've been in a house that had it and
> it was safe and reliable. they said gas would be
> cheaper: when they installed it. now it's more
> expensive !! and installing and maintaining is
> more expensive and dangerous.


This for one:

ho-ast.jpg

And you'll need to have it located where a truck can get the hose to it. Lord knows what you'd have to go through these days if you ever had a spill.

Beyond that unreliable supply and greatly fluctuating costs at times, having to monitor supply, odor, etc. I'm sure that the new stuff is better but I thought that it was a pain in the ass when I had it.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: energy analyst ()
Date: November 08, 2013 05:36PM

new resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just bought a house in west springfield and it
> needs a new hvac system. It has gas heat but I was
> thinking about having a heat pump installed. Heat
> pump has higher efficency and lower install cost.
> I used heat pump in western maryland foe decades
> with great results. One of my new neighbors heats
> with oil and says its great. Local opinions
> please? Thanks!


Heat pumps are miles ahead of even the most efficient gas furnace when comparing energy efficiency. The most important thing however is how well your home is insulated. A house that leaks heat as fast as your heating appliance can add it is going to be very costly no matter what type of energy you use to heat it. Most of the Fairfax county homes that were built in the 50s through the early 70s fall into the poorly insulated category.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: form automa ()
Date: November 08, 2013 08:32PM

he he. and insulation is both flammable and expensive.

have fun installing enough of it to use the heat pump ! (it is technically the most efficient. is it more cost effective and reliable for the price? is it from china? hmmm. time will tell...)

(some homes with them just use electric on the colder days)

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Stabitha ()
Date: November 08, 2013 08:58PM

Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> would suggest staying away from heat pump. in
> extreme cold (extreme for here) it just runs all
> the time and fails to heat effectively. cheaper
> in moderate weather tho.

Not true. The newer heat pumps are very efficient. I installed a new one last year and the emergency heat (all electric) only comes on when temp gets into the teens, which around here isnt that often.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat pumps are insufficient ()
Date: November 08, 2013 09:08PM

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curmudgeon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > would suggest staying away from heat pump. in
> > extreme cold (extreme for here) it just runs
> all
> > the time and fails to heat effectively.
> cheaper
> > in moderate weather tho.
>
> Not true. The newer heat pumps are very efficient.
> I installed a new one last year and the emergency
> heat (all electric) only comes on when temp gets
> into the teens, which around here isnt that often.

Bullshit. The reason you had it installed was due to no natural gas in your area. Only ignorant people buy houses with electricty as the only source for heat.
Your parents were stupid.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pumps Suck ()
Date: November 08, 2013 09:24PM

I have a heat pump on the upper level, but gas heat on the lower two levels. It's actually an OK option. But, if it not were for the gas on the lower levels, there's no way I would have bought my current house. I've had heat pumps in previous homes and they just plain suck. You'll never feel warm, and you really won't save much money either.

But, do keep in mind, check into the credits that expire at the end of this year. I think if you install a 14 SEER or higher unit, you are entitled to a $300 tax credit. Granted, it won't be much when you look at the big picture of the $7,000 you'll spend on the replacement.

Thank goodness, I can do my own work. $2,300 will go a long way towards an excellent system and I'll spend the remaining $5K on a good vacation.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Watt? ()
Date: November 08, 2013 09:31PM

You are wrong. Emergency heat kicks on not only when it's cold outside, but also when there's a 3-4 degree differential between actual temp and desired temp?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: old timer 1959 fairfax ()
Date: November 08, 2013 09:48PM

A properly sized heat pump in a well insulated home is the ultimate in comfort and efficiency. Gas and oil furnaces cannot come close to heat pumps in efficiency. I have used heat pumps for 33 years and they have been wonderful.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Paxriver ()
Date: November 08, 2013 10:35PM

I used to live in Springfield. I had heat pump, oil heat, gas furnace. Gas all the way. Specialy now.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Stabitha ()
Date: November 08, 2013 10:37PM

Heat pumps are insufficient Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Bullshit. The reason you had it installed was due
> to no natural gas in your area. Only ignorant
> people buy houses with electricty as the only
> source for heat.
> Your parents were stupid.

What areas dont have natural gas? You are out of what's left of your mind.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: No Contest ()
Date: November 08, 2013 10:52PM

Natural Gas. Walk in no heat in your house flip the switch and in 15 minutes the house is warm.. mine is 2100Sq ft 4 bedroom 2 story on a crawl space no basement 100K BTU gas furnace. Furnace replacement is about 2500-4000 way below that of a heat pump system. You not just replacing the heater but also the AC with the heat pump. Heat Pumps are great if you dont have gas. In the country they beat oil, coal and electric baseboard heating but if its cold expect a drafty house. they dont cut it like the flame does. In summer there a AC and good for that.. Overall their electric bill hogs and with Obama and Fast Terry now trying to close down the coal mines and send you to the cleaners with wind power kiss your ass goodbye with the electric bill if they suceed.

The highest gas bill I have had was 220 for a month in Jan.including gas stove. electric water heater which is also cheaper with gas. Most winter months getting to Jan Feb its 140- 160 Then the Jan Feb slammer 200- 210

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Another Thought ()
Date: November 08, 2013 10:53PM

For houses on larger lots and are more remote, they might not have the option of running a gas line to the property, unless they cover all the expenses. But, most people get around this issue by burying propane tanks in their yard and use propane to run their furnace.

To the comment about a well-insulated home and the efficiency of a heat pump when all the stars are aligned right. In this area, very few homes are built with excellent energy conservation ratings. Most of the crap that gets erected in 40 days (I live in one) would never be considered well-insulated and capable of the savings one could achieve with a heat pump.

For every single person who loves a heat pump, there are 20 others who hate the damn things.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: puJbc ()
Date: November 08, 2013 10:54PM

i know. be a damn gov worker. though a friend in gov (which you funneled gov moeny to) you'll get lined up with a sweet write off and even payment for energy saving upgrade to (your) home

if i catch you i'll arrest you for deceiving others in the ammount of more than $2000 which is fraud. but i probably can't.

but if.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: No Contest ()
Date: November 08, 2013 11:10PM

One Mo thing with a gas furnece you will have a conventional AC unit. They can go 3500-7000 for a good size house. I would rather have the two systems. With heat pump or gas or Ac the more you pay the better the efficiency and the lower the fuel bill electric or gas. All in all they have all come a long way in the last 20 years which is why some of the huge new homes can have lower utility bills then some older smaller homes. insulation is a very important item as well as windows. Lots of older FX houses built in the 60's still have single pane glass windows. Plastic film over them inside can help insulate them in coldest weather with less heat loss and lots goes out thru the windows.

Oil heat is a smoky heat nowhere as clean as gas and expensive also. dont even go there.. its great if your out in the country with few other options and think about it many homes even today are not in a natural gas avialable area

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: gas victim ()
Date: November 09, 2013 06:33AM

I have seen people die because of natural gas. In the 70s there were four houses in Canterbury woods that were blown off the map in the middle of the night while the homeowners slept. Every winter people die from carbon monoxide poisoning as a result of the improper use of gas.
Not only do I use a safe, clean heat pump but I would not even buy a house in a neighborhood that has natural gas piped to it.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pumps for Dummies ()
Date: November 09, 2013 07:03AM

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heat pumps are insufficient Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > Bullshit. The reason you had it installed was
> due
> > to no natural gas in your area. Only ignorant
> > people buy houses with electricty as the only
> > source for heat.
> > Your parents were stupid.
>
> What areas dont have natural gas? You are out of
> what's left of your mind.

Either you are lying about the heat pump your parents had installed or just stupid.
No one would utilize a heat pump if your house has natural gas connection
A lot of developments in Fairfax new County do not have NG due to supply and overbuilding. Not enough gas lines layed during last thirty years.
Stupid,drunk and lying is no way to post on FFXU.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Stabitha ()
Date: November 09, 2013 08:44AM

Heat Pumps for Dummies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Either you are lying about the heat pump your
> parents had installed or just stupid.
> No one would utilize a heat pump if your house has
> natural gas connection
> A lot of developments in Fairfax new County do not
> have NG due to supply and overbuilding. Not enough
> gas lines layed during last thirty years.
> Stupid,drunk and lying is no way to post on FFXU.

Who's stupid now?
Attachments:
propane.jpg

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: feeling warmer ()
Date: November 09, 2013 08:51AM

Gas and oil furnaces are filthy and very bad for the environment, they should be banned. A broken down heat pump that is running on emergency heat is 100% efficient and a working heat pump can make that three of four times better, hence the "EER" in SEER. The energy efficiency ratio indicates how much energy is being saved by a heat pump as you are paying the transportation cost of heat from the outside air to the inside air.
With a filthy,disgusting gas furnace you are burning irreplaceable fossil fuels and sending a portion of the heat right up the flue pipe to be wasted.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: November 09, 2013 08:52AM

Oil makes a good deal of sense in a rural area where connections to natural gas lines aren't an option. In this area oil tanks are considered unsightly and would likely negatively affect your property value. Other considerations against oil would be the need to maintain your yard so the truck could access the tank, the possibility of spills and leaks and the fact its not heavily used here meaning oil delivery services might become an issue. Two positives though are that you are not tied to one supplier, and in a doomsday scenario with oil you wouldn't be reliant on the outside world, assuming you'd also bought an oil fired generator.

Heat from natural gas, oil, wood or even the older style electric heaters seems to come out of registers much warmer than the heat from a heat pump. It may not matter to you, but potential home buyers may find this preferable. Natural gas seems to do a better job of heating up a cold house quickly. This makes it more attractive if you turn down the temperature when you are at work, or at night when you are asleep. In more colder weather that we get at least a few days a year, heat pumps struggle. Heat pumps seem to work best in milder weather and when you keep the temperature constant.

Ideally I'd suggest dual fuel. However you probably wouldn't recoup the cost of installation.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: unfairfax ()
Date: November 09, 2013 09:29AM

My trusty Rudd natural gas heater has kept me and my family toasty these past 20 years without a hitch. Just an annual service check/cleaning the vents ($120) and we're WONDERFUL. I change my air filters bi-monthly and vaccum/409 the walls frequently to keep dust down in the house. We also have a carrier AC which works PERFECTLY these past 10 years, no problems EVER.

+1 for natural gas heat! Lucky my area of ffx has it :)

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Different orifices. ()
Date: November 09, 2013 09:36AM

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heat Pumps for Dummies Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Either you are lying about the heat pump your
> > parents had installed or just stupid.
> > No one would utilize a heat pump if your house
> has
> > natural gas connection
> > A lot of developments in Fairfax new County do
> not
> > have NG due to supply and overbuilding. Not
> enough
> > gas lines layed during last thirty years.
> > Stupid,drunk and lying is no way to post on
> FFXU.
>
> Who's stupid now?

Nice Propane tanks. Not used for natural gas.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: If you don't see it,it's magic! ()
Date: November 09, 2013 09:49AM

feeling warmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gas and oil furnaces are filthy and very bad for
> the environment, they should be banned. A broken
> down heat pump that is running on emergency heat
> is 100% efficient and a working heat pump can make
> that three of four times better, hence the "EER"
> in SEER. The energy efficiency ratio indicates how
> much energy is being saved by a heat pump as you
> are paying the transportation cost of heat from
> the outside air to the inside air.
> With a filthy,disgusting gas furnace you are
> burning irreplaceable fossil fuels and sending a
> portion of the heat right up the flue pipe to be
> wasted.

I SEAR my steaks with coal and gas


And what source of energy is used to power the electric provider plants?
a. Coal
b. natural gas
c. Nuclear
d. You are ignorant
d.1 sub. All of the above.
Don't forget to pay your electric bill.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Gas Is The Way To Go ()
Date: November 09, 2013 11:21AM

>Gas and oil furnaces are filthy and very bad for the environment, they should be banned.

Another useless Democrat who wants the gubment to control us. Leave my heat alone asshole.

They want to bankrupt us all so we have to depend on the gubment for support and "thankfully" vote for for Democrats who supply us with the welfare.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: EPRI ()
Date: November 09, 2013 11:59AM

feeling warmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gas and oil furnaces are filthy and very bad for
> the environment, they should be banned. A broken
> down heat pump that is running on emergency heat
> is 100% efficient and a working heat pump can make
> that three of four times better, hence the "EER"
> in SEER. The energy efficiency ratio indicates how
> much energy is being saved by a heat pump as you
> are paying the transportation cost of heat from
> the outside air to the inside air.
> With a filthy,disgusting gas furnace you are
> burning irreplaceable fossil fuels and sending a
> portion of the heat right up the flue pipe to be
> wasted.


No, they are not "100% efficient," and, if they were, obviously, you could not make that 3X or 4X better. I understand what you're attempting to say but it appears that you're just parroting what you've read somewhere and don't really understand it.

Electric power itself as delivered to a house is not "100% efficient." You have the same losses upon generation and there are significant transmission and direct use losses. By the time power hits your "100% efficient" heat pump, the losses have already happened. All you've done is shift where.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: wowzers! ()
Date: November 09, 2013 01:56PM

EPRI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> feeling warmer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gas and oil furnaces are filthy and very bad
> for
> > the environment, they should be banned. A
> broken
> > down heat pump that is running on emergency
> heat
> > is 100% efficient and a working heat pump can
> make
> > that three of four times better, hence the
> "EER"
> > in SEER. The energy efficiency ratio indicates
> how
> > much energy is being saved by a heat pump as
> you
> > are paying the transportation cost of heat from
> > the outside air to the inside air.
> > With a filthy,disgusting gas furnace you are
> > burning irreplaceable fossil fuels and sending
> a
> > portion of the heat right up the flue pipe to
> be
> > wasted.
>
>
> No, they are not "100% efficient," and, if they
> were, obviously, you could not make that 3X or 4X
> better. I understand what you're attempting to
> say but it appears that you're just parroting what
> you've read somewhere and don't really understand
> it.
>
> Electric power itself as delivered to a house is
> not "100% efficient." You have the same losses
> upon generation and there are significant
> transmission and direct use losses. By the time
> power hits your "100% efficient" heat pump, the
> losses have already happened. All you've done is
> shift where.


Your ignorance is astounding EPRI!
Those of us that paid attention in physics class in high school know that 1 kilowatt (kW) = 3,412.14 btu per hour (btu/h) and yes all electric resistance heat is 100% efficient as far as the end user is concerned. You buy a kilowatt from the power company and you get 3412 btu/h period dot.

You take that same amount of electric power and put it into a heat pump and that machine can in some cases move 10,000 btus from the outside air and release it into the air stream inside your home. You are simply using some energy to transfer some of the countless trillions of btus that are around us everywhere.

Hey I have a gas furnace in one of my homes and it does not bother me at all. I love it when I see someone driving a hybrid that has Greenpeace and Al Gore stickers on the back bumper and I see them living in a house with a gas furnace and water heater. I shake my head and laugh.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: EPRI ()
Date: November 09, 2013 03:55PM

wowzers! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Your ignorance is astounding EPRI!
> Those of us that paid attention in physics class
> in high school know that 1 kilowatt (kW) =
> 3,412.14 btu per hour (btu/h) and yes all electric
> resistance heat is 100% efficient as far as the
> end user is concerned.
You buy a kilowatt from the
> power company and you get 3412 btu/h period dot.


And some of us actually understood things well enough to be able to apply the theoretical calculations to practical applications beyond formula. As I said, I understood what you (or they) were attempting to say. Yes, that's the case at the point of conversion of electricity to heat at the resistive element.

But that was not the basis for the argument presented re "filthy fossil fuels" and not the case for the full practical model and fuel cycle, as even you appear to appreciate because you've now tried to slip in the condition of "at the end point." That electricity does not somehow magically appear at the heating element. And if you want to return to theory, the losses are in fact greater for burning a unit of gas to create electricity, transmitting it, and then converting to heat again versus burning that same unit of gas directly to generate heat at a burner (admittedly ignoring whatever transmission losses there may be in making the same kind of nonsense argument).

The only case where the comparison you/they are trying to make works is only in comparing the operating costs for two systems given the relative cost for various fuel options. And you/they didn't even get the metric right since as far as heating goes you'd be looking at HSPF not SEER.


>
> You take that same amount of electric power and
> put it into a heat pump and that machine can in
> some cases move 10,000 btus from the outside air
> and release it into the air stream inside your
> home. You are simply using some energy to transfer
> some of the countless trillions of btus that are
> around us everywhere.


Which involves running the compressor which is not resistive and not "100% efficient." As simple proof of that, go out and put your hand on the compressor while running. You/they are jumping between various measures of electrical, thermal, and heating efficiency. Obviously a heat pump is more efficient than a gas burner at capturing latent heat from the air (duh) and they may be able to move lots of heat under certain conditions. They also may not. Which is precisely why they do not work well at lower temperatures. You can run it and run it, (burning electric power the whole time and losing efficiency), but you'll not practically capture enough heat to efficiently heat a given space.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Tom_Mason ()
Date: November 09, 2013 04:20PM

The big problem with heat pumps is that they blow out currents of air at roughly the temp the thermostat is set at. A seventy-two degree current of air may sound warm, but IMHO it's really uncomfortable. So, I'd recommend getting gas heat. Gas furnaces generate air currents that are typivcally 30 or more degrees higher and both the supply and price of gas is likely to remain stable for the foreseeable future.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Gerrymanderer2 ()
Date: November 09, 2013 05:02PM

Nothing beats Gas. There isn't even a comparison.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Stabitha ()
Date: November 09, 2013 06:06PM

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing beats Gas. There isn't even a comparison.

You got that right!
Attachments:
boom1.jpg

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pumps for Dummies II ()
Date: November 09, 2013 06:10PM

EPRI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wowzers! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Your ignorance is astounding EPRI!
> > Those of us that paid attention in physics
> class
> > in high school know that 1 kilowatt (kW) =
> > 3,412.14 btu per hour (btu/h) and yes all
> electric
> > resistance heat is 100% efficient as far as
> the
> > end user is concerned.
You buy a kilowatt
> from the
> > power company and you get 3412 btu/h period
> dot.
>
>
> And some of us actually understood things well
> enough to be able to apply the theoretical
> calculations to practical applications beyond
> formula. As I said, I understood what you (or
> they) were attempting to say. Yes, that's the
> case at the point of conversion of electricity to
> heat at the resistive element.
>
> But that was not the basis for the argument
> presented re "filthy fossil fuels" and not the
> case for the full practical model and fuel cycle,
> as even you appear to appreciate because you've
> now tried to slip in the condition of "at the end
> point." That electricity does not somehow
> magically appear at the heating element. And if
> you want to return to theory, the losses are in
> fact greater for burning a unit of gas to create
> electricity, transmitting it, and then converting
> to heat again versus burning that same unit of gas
> directly to generate heat at a burner (admittedly
> ignoring whatever transmission losses there may be
> in making the same kind of nonsense argument).
>
> The only case where the comparison you/they are
> trying to make works is only in comparing the
> operating costs for two systems given the relative
> cost for various fuel options. And you/they
> didn't even get the metric right since as far as
> heating goes you'd be looking at HSPF not SEER.
>
>
>
> >
> > You take that same amount of electric power and
> > put it into a heat pump and that machine can in
> > some cases move 10,000 btus from the outside
> air
> > and release it into the air stream inside your
> > home. You are simply using some energy to
> transfer
> > some of the countless trillions of btus that
> are
> > around us everywhere.
>
>
> Which involves running the compressor which is not
> resistive and not "100% efficient." As simple
> proof of that, go out and put your hand on the
> compressor while running. You/they are jumping
> between various measures of electrical, thermal,
> and heating efficiency. Obviously a heat pump is
> more efficient than a gas burner at capturing
> latent heat from the air (duh) and they may be
> able to move lots of heat under certain
> conditions. They also may not. Which is
> precisely why they do not work well at lower
> temperatures. You can run it and run it, (burning
> electric power the whole time and losing
> efficiency), but you'll not practically capture
> enough heat to efficiently heat a given space.

Compressors never run at rated amperage. Adjusting the charge on optimum days will only produce 88-92% efficiency. Variables on supply voltage can effect performance greatly. In general heat pumps (residential hvac packages) ain't worth a damn above the 28th parallel.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Stabitha. ()
Date: November 09, 2013 06:30PM

Living in the basement I really like heat pumps a lot more. When mom had the Furnace down here it got so loud since I was only 10 feet away from the furnace. Now its quit down here, no more loud flames.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Stabitha ()
Date: November 09, 2013 06:44PM

"Now it's quit"

What the hell does that mean?

And oh yeah we never noticed the (.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2013 06:44PM by Stabitha.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: The Two Stabithas ()
Date: November 09, 2013 06:52PM

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Now it's quit"
>
> What the hell does that mean?
>
> And oh yeah we never noticed the (.)

Two to many. Must be from the carbon monoxide.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Stabitha. ()
Date: November 09, 2013 07:06PM

Quiet* Sorry for the type guys, it's been a while since Ive been to NVCC. NVCC is just not for me, my mom is cool with me staying in the basement so I just hang out down here all day no need for all that diploma crap.


I like to edit my posts often, even though they are short sorry about that too.

I will go back to NVCC eventually, once I get my toyota pusing 120+whp I will re enroll. I have a TRD sticker coming for the back window, I cant wait to apply it.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: bottom line ()
Date: November 09, 2013 07:24PM

Bottom line is that heat pumps blow the doors of any gas or oil furnace when it comes to efficiency. It is no contest, not even close.
Many people do not understand the difference between cost and efficiency.

Yes Al Gore would force us all to use heat pumps and only heat pumps but there are other concerns like comfort and cost. And yes it is true that there is a slightly higher risk of explosion or carbon monoxide poisoning with gas but that risk is very small.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Alans Gores ()
Date: November 10, 2013 04:41PM

Time to begin the phaseout of gas and oil furnaces. If you have not switched to a heat pump by 2019 the military will take possession of your house while government contractors change your heating system. The cost of this will be transfered out of your bank accounts and your credit rating will be shot to hell.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: some dude ()
Date: November 20, 2013 08:03PM

I'm in Springfield as well. It's been 3 years with a relatively high efficiency heat pump (17 SEER/8.7 HSPF) with an 80% gas furnace backup. Assuming I did my math right, it's cheaper to run the HP as the temp drops outside until it can't keep up. I haven't tried to find that point yet, but at 25 outside the HP still doesn't run constantly.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: mister btu ()
Date: November 20, 2013 08:32PM

Heat pumps are the only way to go in northern Virginia. I had the gas line to my house capped off at the street 22 years ago.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: November 20, 2013 08:49PM

mister btu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heat pumps are the only way to go in northern
> Virginia. I had the gas line to my house capped
> off at the street 22 years ago.

I guess you don't cook? That's not snide, it's jealousy -- we don't have gas in our neighborhood but I'd *love* to be able to have a gas stove instead of sucky electric.

And yeah, this is topic drift, kinda.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: indoor air quality ()
Date: November 21, 2013 05:14AM

Greybeard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mister btu Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Heat pumps are the only way to go in northern
> > Virginia. I had the gas line to my house capped
> > off at the street 22 years ago.
>
> I guess you don't cook? That's not snide, it's
> jealousy -- we don't have gas in our neighborhood
> but I'd *love* to be able to have a gas stove
> instead of sucky electric.
>
> And yeah, this is topic drift, kinda.


I agree that gas is easier to cook on but gas ranges are extremely foul. A gas range is a un-vented fossil fuel burning appliance inside your home that puts it's byproducts of combustion right into the air you breathe. If you must cook with gas they do make hybrid ranges that have an electric oven and 3 electric burners up top plus one gas burner that can easily burn propane from a bottle outside the house. The hybrid ranges are like the best of both worlds.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: notosmart ()
Date: November 21, 2013 08:20AM

indoor air quality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greybeard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > mister btu Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Heat pumps are the only way to go in northern
> > > Virginia. I had the gas line to my house
> capped
> > > off at the street 22 years ago.
> >
> > I guess you don't cook? That's not snide, it's
> > jealousy -- we don't have gas in our
> neighborhood
> > but I'd *love* to be able to have a gas stove
> > instead of sucky electric.
> >
> > And yeah, this is topic drift, kinda.
>
>
> I agree that gas is easier to cook on but gas
> ranges are extremely foul. A gas range is a
> un-vented fossil fuel burning appliance inside
> your home that puts it's byproducts of combustion
> right into the air you breathe. If you must cook
> with gas they do make hybrid ranges that have an
> electric oven and 3 electric burners up top plus
> one gas burner that can easily burn propane from a
> bottle outside the house. The hybrid ranges are
> like the best of both worlds.


Natural Gas exhaust is mostly Co2 and H2o with trace of other. Basically it is the same components that a humans exhale.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: OH the ignorance! ()
Date: December 22, 2013 07:22AM

"Natural Gas exhaust is mostly Co2 and H2o with trace of other. Basically it is the same components that a humans exhale."


If you believe that why don't you go ahead and pull the flue pipe loose from your gas furnace and let it vent into the house. That would save you money on energy costs. It would save you on groceries too because dead people have no need for groceries.

Actually your first sentence is true but it is the particulate Matter that will hurt you. The PM causes some people to develop asthma and breathing difficulties. Having a gas range in a modern home is very bad indeed.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: zimm ()
Date: December 22, 2013 08:03AM

I'll replace my gas furnace….with a newer gas furnace when the time comes. It's a high efficiency version that uses PVC pipe for the air intake and exhaust- no flue out the roof, which is wasted heat.

The best thing you can do is poke your head in the attic and see how deep the insulation is. My house was built in '76 and had not enough cellulose isolation to cover the bottom of the rafters (3-4"). I spent $1500 and had 18" blown in and wow what a difference. My A/C ran less than 1/2 the time it did before. I was one of the last houses in the neighborhood with snow on the roof (good indicator of heat loss when comparing houses next to each other). The access hatches had no insulation- the installer said that's like leaving a window open! I had a thick batt laid over the hatches and that helped too.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: heating expert ()
Date: December 22, 2013 08:21AM

zimm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll replace my gas furnace….with a newer gas
> furnace when the time comes. It's a high
> efficiency version that uses PVC pipe for the air
> intake and exhaust- no flue out the roof, which is
> wasted heat.
>
> The best thing you can do is poke your head in the
> attic and see how deep the insulation is. My
> house was built in '76 and had not enough
> cellulose isolation to cover the bottom of the
> rafters (3-4"). I spent $1500 and had 18" blown
> in and wow what a difference. My A/C ran less
> than 1/2 the time it did before. I was one of the
> last houses in the neighborhood with snow on the
> roof (good indicator of heat loss when comparing
> houses next to each other). The access hatches
> had no insulation- the installer said that's like
> leaving a window open! I had a thick batt laid
> over the hatches and that helped too.


The 90+ gas furnaces that vent with PVC pipe are a waste and a poor choice for this area. They cannot get the run time to get anywhere close to the rated efficiency except in extremely cold weather. They should be used only when a traditional flue is not available.
The facts do not stop most of the heating company salesmen from showing the efficiency ratings to the clueless homeowners and selling them a more expensive and less reliable 90+ furnace.
Zimm has it right when it comes to insulation. The best furnace in the world is not going to help when the heat is leaking out of your home quickly. Insulation has a one time cost that pays back year after year.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: shot to hell ()
Date: December 22, 2013 08:23AM

Alans Gores Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Time to begin the phaseout of gas and oil
> furnaces. If you have not switched to a heat pump
> by 2019 the military will take possession of your
> house while government contractors change your
> heating system. The cost of this will be
> transfered out of your bank accounts and your
> credit rating will be shot to hell.


LOL!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Big Ass Heat Pump ()
Date: December 22, 2013 08:50AM

The time to buy is now. 2013 will mark the last year for energy credits. If you buy a 14 SEER or above efficiency unit, you will get a $300 credit. This has to be done by 12/31/2013 in order to get the credit.

I bought a big-ass replacement to my current heat pump. It's just going to be used as my supplemental heat system though. The price was right and there's nothing wrong with free government money to boot!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: December 22, 2013 01:43PM

indoor air quality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that gas is easier to cook on but gas
> ranges are extremely foul. A gas range is a
> un-vented fossil fuel burning appliance inside
> your home that puts it's byproducts of combustion
> right into the air you breathe.

Whatever pollutants gas range tops introduce into the household pale in comparison to the pollutants introduced by cooking on the stove generally. In many non-smoking households cooking is the primary producer of aerosole. Studies have shown cooking increases the concentrations of organic carbon and a number of other particles. This happens even when using electric range tops. There are a number of studies on this floating around the internet.

With cooking as with heating personal preference still plays an important role.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: abelard ()
Date: December 24, 2013 12:41AM

Heat pumps are pretty great, and I don't know what folks are talking about when they call them 'cold pumps'. Mine keeps my house toasty but it takes time, so I installed a clever (possibly too clever) new thermostat. I set it for 'maximum savings' so it can take an hour or two to warm the place up after a cool night but it does so while I'm still warm in bed.

Another thing to consider, new resident - if you have a heat pump and the electricity goes out, you have no heat at all. Last winter we lost power for a couple of hours, long enough to feel the temperature drop as the heat seeped out of the walls. Thankfully this doesn't happen much in my area - some parts of Fairfax lost power for days and days. I looked into getting a backup generator just in case, only to find that heat pumps use a shitload of amps, especially when it's cold enough to require using the auxiliary heating elements. A generator large enough to heat my house would have cost about the same as a new car, and pretty good car at that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2013 12:42AM by abelard.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: hybrid 22 ()
Date: December 24, 2013 08:35AM

If a home has enough power to it to allow the use of a heat pump then it needs to be required by law to do so. Gas and oil furnaces are terrible for the environment.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: ffx steve ()
Date: December 25, 2013 09:28AM

Anyone touting the efficiency of heat pumps just bought the salesmen's pitch. Heat pumps are inferior to natural gas and it has nothing to do with efficiency. What makes the best heater is that it gets the home to the desired temperature for a lower cost. Heat pumps fail on both accounts. Efficiency basically means there is little energy loss between input and output. The problem with heat pumps in the lack of input. Heat pumps draw energy out of the external air, but the colder it is outside the less energy there is to draw. Even if the heat pump was 100 percent efficient, when the temps are below freezing there just isn't enough energy in the air to convert into the desired internal room temperature without running the heat pump for extended periods. Running your efficient heat pump for a long time in order to get the room to a comfortable temperature will cost a lot more in electricity than your "inefficient" gas furnace.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: your teacher ()
Date: December 25, 2013 10:43AM

ffx steve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone touting the efficiency of heat pumps just
> bought the salesmen's pitch. Heat pumps are
> inferior to natural gas and it has nothing to do
> with efficiency. What makes the best heater is
> that it gets the home to the desired temperature
> for a lower cost. Heat pumps fail on both
> accounts. Efficiency basically means there is
> little energy loss between input and output. The
> problem with heat pumps in the lack of input. Heat
> pumps draw energy out of the external air, but the
> colder it is outside the less energy there is to
> draw. Even if the heat pump was 100 percent
> efficient, when the temps are below freezing there
> just isn't enough energy in the air to convert
> into the desired internal room temperature without
> running the heat pump for extended periods.
> Running your efficient heat pump for a long time
> in order to get the room to a comfortable
> temperature will cost a lot more in electricity
> than your "inefficient" gas furnace.


Steve buddy, You have just proven beyond a shadow of a dobut that you have no idea what you are talking about.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: December 25, 2013 11:20AM

your teacher Wrote:
> Steve buddy, You have just proven beyond a shadow
> of a dobut that you have no idea what you are
> talking about.

+1

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: 6.8 billion and you care? ()
Date: December 25, 2013 11:25AM

hybrid 22 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If a home has enough power to it to allow the use
> of a heat pump then it needs to be required by law
> to do so. Gas and oil furnaces are terrible for
> the environment.

Fuck the environment.
Merry Christmas.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: abelard ()
Date: December 27, 2013 12:32PM

> Running your efficient heat pump for a long time
> in order to get the room to a comfortable
> temperature will cost a lot more in electricity
> than your "inefficient" gas furnace.

I think the only way this makes sense is that your gas furnace doesn't use any electricity at all (just gas), so it beats an electric appliance hands down. It does, however, use gas.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Alan G ()
Date: December 28, 2013 05:08AM

GAS AND OIL FURNACES MUST BE BANNED, COAL AND WOOD AS WELL!!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Final Answer ()
Date: December 28, 2013 08:32AM

Choose gas heat if you enjoy warmth. Choose heatpump if you like to wear a couple sweaters around the house.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: homeowner27 ()
Date: December 28, 2013 10:57AM

Final Answer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Choose gas heat if you enjoy warmth. Choose
> heatpump if you like to wear a couple sweaters
> around the house.


How do you figure that? A heat pump thermostat set at 72 degrees is exactly the same temperature as a gas thermostat at 72 degrees. Part of my home is heated with gas and another part is heated with a heat pump and they are both quite comfortable. I did have to add a humidifier to the gas system because it was too dry.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: X tree ()
Date: December 28, 2013 11:12AM

Just leave up your Christmas tree
That will heat up the whole house

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: December 28, 2013 01:51PM

Alan G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GAS AND OIL FURNACES MUST BE BANNED, COAL AND WOOD
> AS WELL!!


If you are that into saving the environment why not turn your thermostat down 45 degrees? A healthy person adequately clothed could easily survive in that temperature and even if you have a heat pump it would save fossil fuels.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: December 28, 2013 02:11PM

homeowner27 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you figure that? A heat pump thermostat set
> at 72 degrees is exactly the same temperature as a
> gas thermostat at 72 degrees.

There are different factors which determine temperature comfort. One is the actual background temperature. In a home with a well thought out vent system and adequate insulation there may not be much difference between gas and a heat pump on this. Where the vent system or insulation is not adequate the system which puts out the higher temperature heat will likely have an advantage.

However in addition to the background temperature there is also a perceived temperature based on air flow or radiating heat. This is where systems like gas, wood burning stoves, steam and even older style electrics have an advantage. Because the temperature blowing or radiating out is higher than a heat pump it gives the "feeling" of making things warmer than they are. Perhaps this is just be cause we have been conditioned by generations who were heated by wood fires. In any event feeling this warmth causes the body to assume that overall the room is warmer.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: FFX Resident ()
Date: December 28, 2013 02:32PM

We had a heat pump installed in 2011. It's heating the house much better than the previous one. Any opinions on annual HVAC service contracts?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Alan G ()
Date: December 28, 2013 04:20PM

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alan G Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GAS AND OIL FURNACES MUST BE BANNED, COAL AND
> WOOD
> > AS WELL!!
>
>
> If you are that into saving the environment why
> not turn your thermostat down 45 degrees? A
> healthy person adequately clothed could easily
> survive in that temperature and even if you have a
> heat pump it would save fossil fuels.


That is an outstanding idea! Maybe just a little warmer than that though. I plan to roll out the "52 degrees is he new 72 degrees campaign". Our government could start requiring that all thermostats sold and used in this country will go no higher than 60 degrees for heat and no lower than 79 degrees for cooling. We would give homeowners 3 years to comply with the new thermostat regulations. After that we would have federal, state and local law enforcement obtain a warrant to enter the homes that have not replaced their thermostats. We can have government contractors replace the thermostats and put a lien on the property to cover the cost. The thermostats would also link up to the cell phone network so the temperature can be monitored by the dept. of energy and the EPA.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: December 28, 2013 08:15PM

FFX Resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We had a heat pump installed in 2011. It's
> heating the house much better than the previous
> one. Any opinions on annual HVAC service
> contracts?

My $0.02: For a 2-year-old system, the minimal contract (2 checks/year) makes sense, assuming you were going to do the 2 checks anyway. If you do have a problem, the contract usually gets you higher in their queue. For an older system, the high-end, all-parts all-labor (well, almost all parts) contracts make sense. We just replaced a 20-year-old heat pump a couple of months ago. We'd had the high-end contract for the last 4 or 5 years, and it paid for itself, both in actual $ savings and in peace of mind. That unit didn't owe us anything after all this time, and was showing it, with a series of small, stupid problems. At ~$200 apiece, those would have cost a lot more without the contract.

And here's where I get flamed for being a shill: we were using Ace Air Conditioning. Nice folks. There are lots of good HVAC companies out there; also a few that aren't so good. Angie's List is a good reference. We aren't using Ace with the new unit because they didn't carry the brand we wanted; went with Mann-In instead. They seem good; the install was painless. Of course it's a bit early to tell what their actual service will be like!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: HUKdp ()
Date: January 07, 2014 02:20PM

ffx steve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone touting the efficiency of heat pumps just
> bought the salesmen's pitch. Heat pumps are
> inferior to natural gas and it has nothing to do
> with efficiency. What makes the best heater is
> that it gets the home to the desired temperature
> for a lower cost. Heat pumps fail on both
> accounts. Efficiency basically means there is
> little energy loss between input and output. The
> problem with heat pumps in the lack of input. Heat
> pumps draw energy out of the external air, but the
> colder it is outside the less energy there is to
> draw. Even if the heat pump was 100 percent
> efficient, when the temps are below freezing there
> just isn't enough energy in the air to convert
> into the desired internal room temperature without
> running the heat pump for extended periods.
> Running your efficient heat pump for a long time
> in order to get the room to a comfortable
> temperature will cost a lot more in electricity
> than your "inefficient" gas furnace.


ffx steve, You are VERY correct.

Those HP folks are freezing now AND going to have a big shock when they get their power bill next month.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: abelard ()
Date: January 13, 2014 12:28AM

Update: might be that my system is around 10 years old (maybe they've gotten better) but my heat pump could barely keep up when the temperature got near 0 F. My aux heat stayed on constantly and it barely got above 66, and my house is pretty well insulated. Unusually cold weather it is true, but it did make me wish I had a wood stove to back fire up.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: gas furnaces FTW ()
Date: January 13, 2014 12:35AM

abelard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Update: might be that my system is around 10 years
> old (maybe they've gotten better) but my heat pump
> could barely keep up when the temperature got near
> 0 F. My aux heat stayed on constantly and it
> barely got above 66, and my house is pretty well
> insulated. Unusually cold weather it is true, but
> it did make me wish I had a wood stove to back
> fire up.

I have a newer heat pump and my house only got up to about 68, I had it set at 72.
Now that it's in the 30's its works fine.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: design engineer ()
Date: January 13, 2014 04:51AM

HUKdp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ffx steve Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anyone touting the efficiency of heat pumps
> just
> > bought the salesmen's pitch. Heat pumps are
> > inferior to natural gas and it has nothing to
> do
> > with efficiency. What makes the best heater is
> > that it gets the home to the desired
> temperature
> > for a lower cost. Heat pumps fail on both
> > accounts. Efficiency basically means there is
> > little energy loss between input and output.
> The
> > problem with heat pumps in the lack of input.
> Heat
> > pumps draw energy out of the external air, but
> the
> > colder it is outside the less energy there is
> to
> > draw. Even if the heat pump was 100 percent
> > efficient, when the temps are below freezing
> there
> > just isn't enough energy in the air to convert
> > into the desired internal room temperature
> without
> > running the heat pump for extended periods.
> > Running your efficient heat pump for a long
> time
> > in order to get the room to a comfortable
> > temperature will cost a lot more in electricity
> > than your "inefficient" gas furnace.
>
>
> ffx steve, You are VERY correct.
>
> Those HP folks are freezing now AND going to have
> a big shock when they get their power bill next
> month.


People often confuse efficiency with cost and vice versa. The reality of the situation is that a gas or oil furnace cannot come anywhere close to a heat pump in efficiency. There really does need to be an incentive to get homeowners to get rid of those nasty gas, oil and wood burning appliances. I would never use anything but a heat pump in my own home and my properly sized, well maintained heat pump has kept me perfectly comfortable for 9 years and counting.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Layton Heete ()
Date: January 24, 2014 04:55PM

So how are those "+100 efficient" heat pumps workin' for ya lately?

lol

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: AAA Contracting ()
Date: January 24, 2014 05:00PM

This thread was started in November. I suspect (hope) that by now he's already made a decision and installed it.

But for my 2 cents go with a wood stove. It's easy and is great way to control your carbon footprint.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Natural Gas ()
Date: January 24, 2014 05:23PM

Natural gas if you can get it in your neighborhood.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Who's laughing now ()
Date: January 24, 2014 06:28PM

Idiots with heat pumps are freezing their asses off now. Toasty warm here with gas heat!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: G ()
Date: January 24, 2014 09:57PM

anybody in this thread bother to measure their discharge temp at the air registers? I am getting a nice cozy 108-110°F... Trane XV80. Fuck heat pumps



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2014 10:00PM by G.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Frostbitten ()
Date: January 25, 2014 01:21AM

Where's the heat in my heat pump?
I want a refund. My electric meter acts like it's on autobahn.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Natural Gas ()
Date: January 25, 2014 08:07AM

Old Man Winter knows how to shut up those heat pump fanboys!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Dumb is as dumb freezes. ()
Date: January 25, 2014 08:25AM

People with heat pumps brag about how great and efficient the units are.
In reality they are just overcompensating for the stupidly of purchasing a house with a heat pump.
Clearing the the snow around the unit might help.....lol

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: energy freak2.0 ()
Date: January 25, 2014 08:34AM

Dumb is as dumb freezes. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People with heat pumps brag about how great and
> efficient the units are.
> In reality they are just overcompensating for the
> stupidly of purchasing a house with a heat pump.
> Clearing the the snow around the unit might
> help.....lol


My inverter technology heat pump is keeping my home a nice warm 73 degrees. Because heat pumps don't scorch the air with high temperatures like those awful gas furnaces do my indoor air does not get dry and I very rarely use a humidifier. I will admit that I had to brush the snow off the outdoor unit the other day. These new heat pumps can extract heat from the outdoor air as low as 20 degrees below zero.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Freqs s of Technology ()
Date: January 25, 2014 09:39AM

energy freak2.0 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dumb is as dumb freezes. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > People with heat pumps brag about how great and
> > efficient the units are.
> > In reality they are just overcompensating for
> the
> > stupidly of purchasing a house with a heat pump.
>
> > Clearing the the snow around the unit might
> > help.....lol
>
>
> My inverter technology heat pump is keeping my
> home a nice warm 73 degrees. Because heat pumps
> don't scorch the air with high temperatures like
> those awful gas furnaces do my indoor air does not
> get dry and I very rarely use a humidifier. I will
> admit that I had to brush the snow off the outdoor
> unit the other day. These new heat pumps can
> extract heat from the outdoor air as low as 20
> degrees below zero.


My inverter technology? We call 'em VFDs or freq drives in the field.
Hope you got a heater on the control panel. The unit gets kinda finicky when it gets cold. Those little electron thingies don't like the damp chilly air.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: energy freak2.0 ()
Date: January 25, 2014 12:07PM

Freqs s of Technology Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> energy freak2.0 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dumb is as dumb freezes. Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > People with heat pumps brag about how great
> and
> > > efficient the units are.
> > > In reality they are just overcompensating for
> > the
> > > stupidly of purchasing a house with a heat
> pump.
> >
> > > Clearing the the snow around the unit might
> > > help.....lol
> >
> >
> > My inverter technology heat pump is keeping my
> > home a nice warm 73 degrees. Because heat pumps
> > don't scorch the air with high temperatures
> like
> > those awful gas furnaces do my indoor air does
> not
> > get dry and I very rarely use a humidifier. I
> will
> > admit that I had to brush the snow off the
> outdoor
> > unit the other day. These new heat pumps can
> > extract heat from the outdoor air as low as 20
> > degrees below zero.
>
>
> My inverter technology? We call 'em VFDs or freq
> drives in the field.
> Hope you got a heater on the control panel. The
> unit gets kinda finicky when it gets cold. Those
> little electron thingies don't like the damp
> chilly air.


No heater required on these little beauty's from Mitsubishi. They work every time, they give till it hertz! lol!

In all seriousness there needs to be a movement to tax people who are stupid enough to burn gas, oil, wood or coal in their homes. If they want to continue to destroy the environment that the rest of us have to live in then they should have to pay out the ass.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: nUPeV ()
Date: January 25, 2014 09:17PM

>who are stupid enough to burn gas, oil, wood or coal in their homes

Until electricity is generated from something other than basically coal or natural gas this statement is silly. There is a 7% loss in transmission lines. So with a modern gas furnace, you are better off burning the gas directly.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Basic Electricity ()
Date: January 26, 2014 01:41AM

Dipshit libturds think electricity is generated by fairies. It would never occur to them that most is from coal-fired power plants. Moron heatpump fanboys lose again!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: energy freak2.0 ()
Date: January 26, 2014 07:02AM

nUPeV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >who are stupid enough to burn gas, oil, wood or
> coal in their homes
>
> Until electricity is generated from something
> other than basically coal or natural gas this
> statement is silly. There is a 7% loss in
> transmission lines. So with a modern gas furnace,
> you are better off burning the gas directly.


Come on now Son, you might want to do a little more research. We all know that most of our power is generated by fossil fuel combustion. That is exactly why we should be using heat pumps. A heat pump uses some power to extract heat from the outdoor air and move it inside your home. There is an unlimited amount of heat around us everywhere so why not round some of it up and bring it inside.
Someone who heats their home with natural gas is going to burn the fuel and send 8 to 20 percent of that energy out the flue as total waste. That is a foul and disgusting way to heat your home and we need to put laws in place to stop it.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Who cares? ()
Date: January 26, 2014 10:49AM

With the human population around 6.7 billion does it matter? Either way water,air will be in short supply for your children. Heat pumps or gas furnances discussions are stupid.
Why not a discussion on transportation? Or world birth control?
Accept the fact or not,your future generation is fucked.
Remenber you will be using resources to respond.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Hate the Planet ()
Date: January 27, 2014 09:36AM

Use a heat pump if you hate the planet and like to shiver. Heat pumps use electricity generated by coal power plants, which typically operate at efficiencies of 30-35%, not counting transmission loss. Gas furnaces are double or triple this efficiency. Only a shill heat pump salesman or braindead zombie would recommend a heat pump over gas furnace.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Hu3hY ()
Date: January 27, 2014 11:46AM

Next door neighbor spent $10k last spring on a very nice dual stage heat pump to replace his oil furnace/aircon.

He's been running on AUX heat for the last 2 weeks and is expecing $1k+ power bill this month.

I have a simlar house and still have my oil furnace, but I installed an EPA certified wood stove. (yeah, it can be tedious to feed the stove, but it's been worth it)

His house is in the low 60's. Mine is in the upper 70's and that's just w/ wood. The oil only kicks on if we go out of town for a couple of days.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: January 27, 2014 12:45PM

energy freak2.0 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In all seriousness there needs to be a movement to
> tax people who are stupid enough to burn gas, oil,
> wood or coal in their homes. If they want to
> continue to destroy the environment that the rest
> of us have to live in then they should have to pay
> out the ass.

Few things are worse than a zealot.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: January 27, 2014 12:49PM

nUPeV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Until electricity is generated from something
> other than basically coal or natural gas this
> statement is silly.

Electricity is generated from sources other than burning coal and natural gas. We also have significant amounts of nuclear and hydro generated electricity and smaller but growing amounts of solar and wind generated power. However each of these methods has some form of negative environmental impact.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Sparkyy ()
Date: January 27, 2014 01:42PM

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Electricity is generated from sources other than
> burning coal and natural gas. We also have
> significant amounts of nuclear and hydro generated
> electricity and smaller but growing amounts of
> solar and wind generated power.

Beyond nuclear the latter are trivial other than in some very specific cases. And a lot of the hydro actually is pumped hydro which is net negative in terms of consumption (i.e., consumes more than it produces but used for peaking capacity, e.g., Bath County, Smith Mountain).

Look at the EIA stats for electricity generation by source.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Sparkyy ()
Date: January 27, 2014 01:45PM

energy freak2.0 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Someone who heats their home with natural gas is
> going to burn the fuel and send 8 to 20 percent of
> that energy out the flue as total waste. That is a
> foul and disgusting way to heat your home and we
> need to put laws in place to stop it.


And what do you think happens when burning at a generation plant and during transmission?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: dHJDc ()
Date: January 28, 2014 02:26PM


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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: 9XevV ()
Date: January 28, 2014 02:27PM

oh and you can call my firewood renewable :-)

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: aging debbie does dallas fan ()
Date: January 28, 2014 06:43PM

CHART ABOVE

your full of crap. airconditioning in the south check into that.

heating is not the bigger part at all.

and the chart fails to show that gov and business and esp facotry use more of the fuel

who told you it is a chart for homes? and who told you it isn't obama's fiends in dc lying to justify loans ?

don't beleive a word they say. they keep stealing.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: energy freak2.0 ()
Date: January 29, 2014 05:02AM

Sparkyy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> energy freak2.0 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Someone who heats their home with natural gas
> is
> > going to burn the fuel and send 8 to 20 percent
> of
> > that energy out the flue as total waste. That is
> a
> > foul and disgusting way to heat your home and
> we
> > need to put laws in place to stop it.
>
>
> And what do you think happens when burning at a
> generation plant and during transmission?


Yes, Sparkyy it is true that power is lost in transmission and there is waste at the generation plants but you are missing the whole point. I am sure that you understand that one KW of electric power equals 3412 btu's right? So you take that same amount of energy and put it into a heat pump and you get four or five times that much heat added to your home. This is where heat pumps create huge benefits for us all. With a heat pump you are heating your home with pollution free heat that is around us everywhere plus the heat of compression.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: ud6uy ()
Date: January 29, 2014 07:56AM

> With a heat pump you are heating your home with pollution free heat that is around us everywhere plus the heat of compression

You are just moving the heat around (and creating additional heat due to the compression). The heat leaks back out of your house into the environment. What to be green? Insulate your fucking house.

>four or five times that much heat added to your home

Not in this area. 2-3 I think last time I checked.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: HeatMeister ()
Date: January 29, 2014 08:34AM

I find that any open flame works best. Light up!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Homie D Clown ()
Date: January 29, 2014 10:35PM

I just run an extension cord from the neighbors house to a space heater in my mom's basement. All is toasty down in my room!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Energy Freak 2.0 ()
Date: January 30, 2014 09:09AM

Give me a break. So heat pumps suck - I make no money unless I can sell them. So bear with my transparent, dumbass sales pitch that pretends using coal-generated electricity is somehow better for the environment than clean natural gas heating. Also, just ignore the fact that a heat pump blows cool air and leaves you shivering. Some people really are stupid enough to believe my pitch and buy a heat pump from me! Isn't America great?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Joe blow ()
Date: January 30, 2014 09:51AM

A fart and a match stick.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: YvGUp ()
Date: January 30, 2014 11:10PM

I forgot to mention that steam-electric generation is 33-50% efficient. This is ignoring the transmission loses.

So while you can use electricity to move heat around efficiently, it will be more efficient for some groups to just burn the fossil fuel directly since they will be able to get >80% efficiency conversion of fuel into heat.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Captain s Obvious ()
Date: January 31, 2014 12:32AM

YvGUp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I forgot to mention that steam-electric generation
> is 33-50% efficient. This is ignoring the
> transmission loses.
>
> So while you can use electricity to move heat
> around efficiently, it will be more efficient for
> some groups to just burn the fossil fuel directly
> since they will be able to get >80% efficiency
> conversion of fuel into heat.

Yeah, after about three others already mentioned it. Lazy moron should learn to read.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Burke Brat ()
Date: January 31, 2014 01:12AM

I personally use a few systems. I have a Gas Furnace for Emergency Use (If Wood stoves go out and Laundry Room reaches 50 Gas Kicks on), I have Gas Cooking and Water heater. I have 2 wood stoves and use about 5 cords of wood a season (wood is from neighbors who have trees cut down) Wood is 10x cleaner than Natural Gas, its renewable and the ashes go into the yard and garden. I have a Generator for Emergency Backup which is enough to power the Gas Furnace if needed. My Typical Gas Bill is $35.00 a month. Electric is running about $170.00 (Plasma t.v. is Energy Hog along with 5 computers running 24/7 and a Radiator heater keeping my Lemon and Orange trees alive in the greenhouse, and 2 Freezers and 2 Fridges running.) Generator is 8 kw. During the Durachio I powered my House (No A/C but its 2 level and Brick, Block 1st level) along with 2 other neighbors Fridges via extension cords. I can take a Hot Shower during a blackout, Cook Manually since Electronic Ignition wont work w/o the generator. I also store 500 Gallons of Rain Water for Garden purposes after Freeze chances are gone.

The wood is a pain but knowing I am in control makes me feel better, and its exercise all year long, Wood Delivered, I split, Move and Stack and then bring in all winter. I also enjoy using the cast iron on the free standing wood stove to cook, or simmer chili or stew. I have the ability and equipment to clean the chimneys each month making sure the family is safe. The hardest part is Regulation of the heat, most of the time its 90 degrees on the second level (A/C and Heat Thermostats are split 2nd level kicks on Blower for A/c with Compressor disconnected at 90 and gas comes on below 50 on 1st level). The past few weeks have been hard with the sub temps, but I know the Gas wont break us and we don't have to be cold, at 6 am its usually 75 in the master bedroom.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: A man's home is his anchor....er ()
Date: January 31, 2014 04:48AM

Burke Brat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I personally use a few systems. I have a Gas
> Furnace for Emergency Use (If Wood stoves go out
> and Laundry Room reaches 50 Gas Kicks on), I have
> Gas Cooking and Water heater. I have 2 wood stoves
> and use about 5 cords of wood a season (wood is
> from neighbors who have trees cut down) Wood is
> 10x cleaner than Natural Gas, its renewable and
> the ashes go into the yard and garden. I have a
> Generator for Emergency Backup which is enough to
> power the Gas Furnace if needed. My Typical Gas
> Bill is $35.00 a month. Electric is running about
> $170.00 (Plasma t.v. is Energy Hog along with 5
> computers running 24/7 and a Radiator heater
> keeping my Lemon and Orange trees alive in the
> greenhouse, and 2 Freezers and 2 Fridges running.)
> Generator is 8 kw. During the Durachio I powered
> my House (No A/C but its 2 level and Brick, Block
> 1st level) along with 2 other neighbors Fridges
> via extension cords. I can take a Hot Shower
> during a blackout, Cook Manually since Electronic
> Ignition wont work w/o the generator. I also store
> 500 Gallons of Rain Water for Garden purposes
> after Freeze chances are gone.
>
> The wood is a pain but knowing I am in control
> makes me feel better, and its exercise all year
> long, Wood Delivered, I split, Move and Stack and
> then bring in all winter. I also enjoy using the
> cast iron on the free standing wood stove to cook,
> or simmer chili or stew. I have the ability and
> equipment to clean the chimneys each month making
> sure the family is safe. The hardest part is
> Regulation of the heat, most of the time its 90
> degrees on the second level (A/C and Heat
> Thermostats are split 2nd level kicks on Blower
> for A/c with Compressor disconnected at 90 and gas
> comes on below 50 on 1st level). The past few
> weeks have been hard with the sub temps, but I
> know the Gas wont break us and we don't have to be
> cold, at 6 am its usually 75 in the master
> bedroom.


And a tornado pays a visit to your house.
There was no place like home.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: I M Comfortable ()
Date: January 31, 2014 04:53AM

Well it is true that heat pumps are by far the most efficient way to heat and anyone who understands high school physics can tell you that. I have found the dual fuel gas furnace to be the best of both worlds. My gas furnace has been doing all the work during this cold snap and I love it even if it is bad for the environment. I get in my 20 mpg truck and go on road trips just for the hell of it sometimes too, fuck it , life is short.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Buy American ()
Date: January 31, 2014 06:23PM

I M Comfortable Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well it is true that heat pumps are by far the
> most efficient way to heat and anyone who
> understands high school physics can tell you that.
> I have found the dual fuel gas furnace to be the
> best of both worlds. My gas furnace has been doing
> all the work during this cold snap and I love it
> even if it is bad for the environment. I get in my
> 20 mpg truck and go on road trips just for the
> hell of it sometimes too, fuck it , life is short.

20 mpg? You must drive a Toyota. Buy a real truck when you gain employment.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Ye Ole Woodson Man ()
Date: January 31, 2014 10:00PM

Natural Gas all the way. No Heat pumps for me. 2100 Sq foot house two story with crawl space My bill Dec 18-Jan 21 14, was 188.00 Pr4ior Nov 15-Dec 18 150.00.

And that was some damn cold weather. Lately the last two weeks, I have been burning 10 ccf of nat gas a day, Thats a lot. at the at rate my bill will be 330 for the monthe but its warming up at last! And of course its been low digets in the am teens at night 30's 20's for what two weeks stright.

This has been a cold Jan. for sure. My house has double pane glass late 80's and though its not as good as todays double pane insulated windows beats the single pane glass by a mile I have 1 Inch insulation foam underCedar siding then 4 inches of regular insulation on the walls thenthe drywall and the wall feel cool but never cold with the furnace 100K Btu keeping the house at 76 degrees.Upstairs even a bit more, When it warms up I will turn it down.

I have been in many heat pump homes drafy no good in really cold weather. Only good out in the country where there is no Nat Gas. And be ready for a huge electric bill.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: gas kills ()
Date: February 01, 2014 08:27AM

I used to work for washington gas and I will NEVER live in a house with gas supplied to it. I have seen people blown up, burned and killed with carbon monoxide poisoning and those are the lucky ones. Others get brain damage from the carbon monoxide and spend the rest of their days at a state mental hospital. Heat pumps all the way for me baby!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Dr. Livingstone ()
Date: February 01, 2014 05:36PM

gas kills Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I used to work for washington gas and I will NEVER
> live in a house with gas supplied to it. I have
> seen people blown up, burned and killed with
> carbon monoxide poisoning and those are the lucky
> ones. Others get brain damage from the carbon
> monoxide and spend the rest of their days at a
> state mental hospital. Heat pumps all the way for
> me baby!

Sounds like you're one of those mental hospital patients. Hope they're able to help you!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: What Stupid People ()
Date: February 01, 2014 06:40PM

"Ban gas stoves, furnaces, water heaters , bad for the environment" ..Typical liberal statements from the well off liberal crowd. F. your 8000 $$$$ + heat pumps and sky high $$$$ replacement costs as well as your drafty ass houses.

And run these electic hogs on what. Closed down coal mines, no coal electric powerplants ?? What! windmills, solar panels, we all would freeze to death.

Now take your asses trekking world wide putting out every wood fire/cook fire /heating fire you see with a waterbucket as its good for the environment and leave us with gas heat alone.

Its there way or the highway so they Wish.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: btu consumer ()
Date: November 15, 2014 11:14AM

This was a very informative thread. I think the best answer for heating in Fairfax is the dual fuel heat pump. Use the heat pump 85% of the time and enjoy efficiency that a gas furnace cannot even come close to. Cut on that toasty warm gas furnace when the outdoor temps drop into the twenty's or any time you feel a chill and just want that blast of heat. Screw oil, it smells bad.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: 1912 Old Town ()
Date: November 15, 2014 11:43AM

Steam FTW!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: DQ... ()
Date: November 15, 2014 02:38PM

Unless you live in Yellowstone Park, you are going to have to produce that steam somehow. Any ideas?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: hey dumbfuck ()
Date: November 15, 2014 02:40PM

DQ... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unless you live in Yellowstone Park, you are going
> to have to produce that steam somehow. Any ideas?


heat%20brochure%20Mandelle%20North.jpg

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: DQ... ()
Date: November 15, 2014 03:39PM

So, all you need is a steam valve, huh? That's brilliant! Just fucking brilliant!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: superheat city ()
Date: November 15, 2014 04:12PM

DQ... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, all you need is a steam valve, huh? That's
> brilliant! Just fucking brilliant!


Yeah! Aint you heard about the fucking magic steam valve? Just pipe it in and it produces steam all by its fucking self! Gone are the days where you had to burn gas, oil, wood or coal to make steam. The magic valve does it all! Get the magic valve for just 27 payments of $33.33. Call in the next hour and we will double the offer!

Call now 1-800-DUM-BASS

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: hey dumbass ()
Date: November 15, 2014 04:17PM

42070fccb034c21330fdff04bbd3c8a9?AccessK

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: long haul paul ()
Date: November 16, 2014 07:13AM

Long haul Paul here.

I am on the road quite a bit and I spend less than 100 nights a year at home but I love my heat pump. It is old but has never let me down.

See you on the interstate!

LHP 10-10 on the side.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: townhouse mouse ()
Date: December 05, 2014 08:29PM

Heat pump with good insulation is the only way to go in NOVA. As a previous poster pointed out good insulation is the real key to energy savings. I ditched my gas furnace in 2009 and got a heat pump, best decision I ever made.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pumps Suck ()
Date: December 05, 2014 09:45PM

Way too expensive to replace VS a gas furnace. You like a drafty house get a heat pump. Come home cold, get a heat pump. You like paying a ransom to Dominion get a heat pump. Natural Gas is the only way to go.
Turn it on , turn it up warm up , turn it down simple.. Thats all there is too it. Heat pumps are Ok for the country but thats it only a idiot would have one over a gas furnace if they have access to Natural Gas. Electric stoves are a different issue some like the electric stoves, some like the gas. For Heat Gas wins! Hands down!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: global cooling ()
Date: December 06, 2014 05:49AM

btu consumer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This was a very informative thread. I think the
> best answer for heating in Fairfax is the dual
> fuel heat pump. Use the heat pump 85% of the time
> and enjoy efficiency that a gas furnace cannot
> even come close to. Cut on that toasty warm gas
> furnace when the outdoor temps drop into the
> twenty's or any time you feel a chill and just
> want that blast of heat. Screw oil, it smells bad.


I guess that would be okay but I have had bad experiences with gas heat. The high surface temperature of a gas heat exchanger dries the air out in my home really bad. We tried adding a whole house humidifier but mold grew inside it and we all got very sick. Our heat pump has been by far the most comfortable and most economical heating system we have ever had. I have no experience with oil heat however.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: December 06, 2014 08:25AM

btu consumer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This was a very informative thread. I think the
> best answer for heating in Fairfax is the dual
> fuel heat pump. Use the heat pump 85% of the time
> and enjoy efficiency that a gas furnace cannot
> even come close to. Cut on that toasty warm gas
> furnace when the outdoor temps drop into the
> twenty's or any time you feel a chill and just
> want that blast of heat. Screw oil, it smells bad.

^^ This

Coldest days are too much for heat pump alone.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: mXhcM ()
Date: December 06, 2014 09:28AM

High SEER heat pump with gas backup is the best configuration for this area or most colder climates.

So if you already have gas installed, this is the most efficient configuration.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: jF6FE ()
Date: December 07, 2014 12:06PM


USING YOUR $100K/YR GOV PAYCHECK DONT GIVE A SHIT THE PRICE



that how real men in fx co pay it

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: global cooling ()
Date: December 07, 2014 01:59PM

jF6FE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>


> USING YOUR $100K/YR GOV PAYCHECK DONT GIVE A SHIT
> THE PRICE
>


>
> that how real men in fx co pay it


If you only make 100 grand a year you need to be damn careful with your money.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: boiler man ()
Date: December 07, 2014 07:37PM

superheat city Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DQ... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So, all you need is a steam valve, huh? That's
> > brilliant! Just fucking brilliant!
>
>
> Yeah! Aint you heard about the fucking magic steam
> valve? Just pipe it in and it produces steam all
> by its fucking self! Gone are the days where you
> had to burn gas, oil, wood or coal to make steam.
> The magic valve does it all! Get the magic valve
> for just 27 payments of $33.33. Call in the next
> hour and we will double the offer!
>
> Call now 1-800-DUM-BASS


Funny! People are stupid.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Vixis ()
Date: December 07, 2014 09:29PM

We had a new hybrid system installed, its oil/electric. it's called a Regal Ecmhybrid Synergy The electric heat pump is used until temps outside hit 36 degrees, when it goes below that then the oil takes over. We definitely saw a big change in our electric bills since having it installed. We also have a digital thermometer that is timed, the times we are home the temp is 70. When we are out of the house at work and asleep, the temp goes down to 65. Here is the link for you to check out: http://wetheadmedia.com/regal-hybrid-synergy-heating-oil-fired-furnaces-review/

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: hairy homeowner ()
Date: February 14, 2015 10:51AM

We switched to heat pump from gas 2 years ago. Heat pumps are the only way to go in this area.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: You Suckers You Can Keep It ()
Date: February 14, 2015 11:50AM

Heat Pumps Suck! Drafty house in cold weather, takes forever to heat up a house, become a slave to Dominion Power and pay 2X times what a gas furnace costs to replace.

Heat pumps are for suckers Ready Flame Wins Again!

A small generator a transfer switch and power goes to the furnace motor and control with 110 20 amp current and you stay warm as Heat Pumpers freeze their asses off

Read This from a thread here on FXU

Longterm power outages tomorrow

Posted by: Dominion guy ()

Date: February 14, 2015 08:50AM


The current situation with the power grid is going to put the northern Virginia area in a bad position with regards to power outages. The power from the central PA plants is being diverted to the new England area because some power generation plants in that area are off line due to weather conditions. If we lose our feed from the south there is going to be real trouble. Area hospitals and emergency service buildings are being advised to top off their generator fuel tanks today. The winds predicted for tomorrow combined with high demand for power is going to put us at risk.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pumps are great! ()
Date: February 14, 2015 12:06PM

The only thing good about heat pumps is I make great money servicing and maintaining them. Ask your service technician what type of heat his house utilizes and 90% will tell you gas.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Cold day today ()
Date: February 14, 2015 12:17PM

Love my furnace, took my home from 64 to 72 today in less than 10 minutes.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: frostbit fred ()
Date: February 14, 2015 01:45PM

Heat pumps in the 80s and 90s did suck but the new ones are awesome. I guess the fact that you can run a gas furnace off a small generator is a big plus if the power goes out. I have a wood-stove in my basement that I rarely use but I might fire it up tonight, got wood from last winter that needs to be burned up. I sure hope the power does not go out!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: February 14, 2015 01:52PM

hairy homeowner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We switched to heat pump from gas 2 years ago.
> Heat pumps are the only way to go in this area.

Not having gas on our street, gas isn't an option for us, but I'd be interested to know why someone who switched from gas is saying this. NOT trying to start a flamewar, just that I've always heard "Gas feels warmer, is faster", etc.

So as an academic discussion, what do you prefer about a heat pump?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: furnace guy in fairfax ()
Date: February 14, 2015 01:55PM

What is your electric bill like?

Furnace and gas water heater, gas was $120 last month.

Electricity was $60


4 people, 2,000 sqft, 40 year old home.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: hairy homeowner ()
Date: February 14, 2015 02:53PM

Greybeard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hairy homeowner Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We switched to heat pump from gas 2 years ago.
> > Heat pumps are the only way to go in this area.
>
> Not having gas on our street, gas isn't an option
> for us, but I'd be interested to know why someone
> who switched from gas is saying this. NOT trying
> to start a flamewar, just that I've always heard
> "Gas feels warmer, is faster", etc.
>
> So as an academic discussion, what do you prefer
> about a heat pump?


In our case the decision to make our home all electric was an emotional one after losing two close family members to a malfunctioning gas furnace. We already had an electric range and dryer so all we had to replace was the water heater and furnace. Our heat pump preheats the water to our water heater in the summer with the waste heat from the air conditioning and because our heat pump is geothermal it never has to defrost and the backup heaters never come on. It is very comfortable in the house and our utility bills are about 30% less than they were with gas. Our humidity stays higher in the winter also so no need for a humidifier.
We still have the rack for the gas meter on the side of the house and I have been thinking of getting a natural gas generator. The generator would be safe as it does all its combustion outside.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: shit happens, waa waaa waaaa ()
Date: February 14, 2015 02:57PM

I sold my car, it was an emotional decisions, after losing two close family members in a car accident. Now I take the bus and just use uber.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: inside man ()
Date: February 14, 2015 08:25PM

I love my heat pump.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Dr Heat ()
Date: February 14, 2015 09:48PM

You'd be a moron to choose anything other than gas if you can get it.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: I "LOVE" Heat Pumps ()
Date: February 14, 2015 10:25PM

>So as an academic discussion, what do you prefer about a heat pump?

Well its been covered above but,

For Starters I like the much higher replacement cost of a heat pump as its a AC and a heat unit, I like to throw hard earned money away. With a gas furnace and conventional Ac you can replace one or the other much cheaper

Then of course the drafts in my home that a heat pump cannot compensate for.

Then theres the electric bill I love to give the electric company 400 dollars a month + in the winter.

If my house is cold when I come home because I kept the T sat down a bit I love how long it takes to heat up as I shiver.

And if the grid goes down with this new storm I will adore freezing my ass off or driving the hell out of the area. As no generator can save your ass with a heat pump unless its got Caterpiller's name on the engine and can "pump" out a solid 220V 40 amp min. output.

Of course P.M. regular maintenance is much higher with a heat pump. So Many wonderful expensive things to go wrong WOW!

If your out in the boondocks with no gas a Heat pump is great for those with deep pockets, It beats the hell out of fuel oil furnaces or electric base board heat and i would take a fuel oil furnace over the base board $$ heat, but If you have access to gas and you got a heat pump, its just money.. Oh Well.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat pump LoLz ()
Date: February 15, 2015 10:55AM

My heat pump hasn't been able to get my home past 65 today, it's been running for the past 20 hours straight.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: hairy homeowner ()
Date: February 15, 2015 11:24AM

furnace guy in fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is your electric bill like?
>
> Furnace and gas water heater, gas was $120 last
> month.
>
> Electricity was $60
>
>
> 4 people, 2,000 sqft, 40 year old home.


Man that is a lot of money you are wasting.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: gas furnace FTW ()
Date: February 15, 2015 11:26AM

$180 a month vs $400+ for the heat pump users

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: warm but concerned ()
Date: February 15, 2015 08:11PM

How do you make gas heat as safe as possible?
What kind of configuration for venting, etc? What do we need to do to minimize carbon monoxide? The system was installed by a certified contractor and serviced, but I still have my doubts/concerns. Is there any reputable environmental/health testing company?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Well You Start ()
Date: February 15, 2015 08:41PM

By having the unit installed by a "certified contractor" . A licensed professional HVAC contractor and there are plenty of them , Installing a gas furnace is not a DIY project although it may be possible But if its got a AC coil that means charging that system and the license to buy the refrigerent.. On and On.. You hire a HVAC company.

The installation will be inspected by FX Co. and a permit will be required for the install.

As far as carbon monoxide is concerned it is a serious subject not to be taken lightly but when you hear about these events you will find rotton out units patch jobs. A professionally installed system will give many years of use and there are no pilot lights today as the gas and ignition systems are electronic as well as the heat controls.

If you have a system and are scared buy a CO2 detector for peace of mind, hire another HVAC tech to inspect your unit and get a second opinion.


Now a true Horror story. I bought a 4Br house for 185K in Fredericksburg Va 4 years ago. Short Sale as many were. The people I bought from paid close to 350K before the fall out.When they bought the house the furnace was original and was replaced as it was 20 years old. They had the house 5 years during that time they had headaches, got sick, the husband lost his job, they lost the house. The furnace is in the crawl space under the house , no basement. The installer from a well know company installed the furnace upside down,or the heat exchanger inside upside down. They can be installed up draft upwards, down draft down wards, horizontial left/ horizontal right sideways but not upside down sideways. The result was CO2 was leaking into the house and made them sick. I understand they sued the installer. I had a inspector look over the furnace well before I bought the house and have never had a problem.

So do the same have a reputable inspector look it over.

In any event this month will be my highest gas bill about 250 dollars, 109 for my electric as I have a electric water heater

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: cT7TP ()
Date: February 15, 2015 09:58PM

In this kind of weather there is just isn't enough heat in the air outside. I think a heat pump with a geothermal loop would probably be the best compromise around here.

Or burn wood and shorten the carbon cycle.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: February 15, 2015 10:03PM

Well You Start Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> In any event this month will be my highest gas
> bill about 250 dollars, 109 for my electric as I
> have a electric water heater

Again, just askin' -- why electric water heater when you have gas? Just because that's what was there when you bought? If it dies, would you replace it with gas?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Stoichiometry ()
Date: February 15, 2015 10:07PM

Well You Start Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As far as carbon monoxide...
>
> If you have a system and are scared buy a CO2
> detector for peace of mind...


carbon monoxide = CO

carbon dioxide = CO2

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Beggars Cant Be Choosers But ()
Date: February 15, 2015 10:27PM

>Just because that's what was there when you bought? If it dies, would you replace it with gas?

No because the water heater is in a utilty room, closet really with bifold doors off the breakfast room with the washer and dryer in the middle of the house and venting the flue would be a major problem. The electric water heater works fine its about 7 years old now if it goes its a easy cheap replacement fr me, I have had it out about 15 times doing work in that area draining it pulling it out , refilling and reconnecting. It does cost me about 40 dollars a month vs 32 estimated for gas. Its a 50 gal water heater. If I had it my way I would have built the house with a proper utilty room with the furnace and water heater in the space. But I will say the difference between a gas water heater and electric is only maybe 12 dollars a month in cost for me, and the electric is way easier to deal with, no gas piping, flue. Furnaces are a much different issue. I would not have bought the house if it had a heat pump. I had gas heat in my apt in Fairfax 30+ years and I like the flame as well as a gas stove for the controlability of the flame.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: February 15, 2015 10:46PM

Thanks. I've lived with oil heat (radiators) and heat pumps, never actually had gas (well, I've "had gas", but not gas heat!).

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Laughing Now ()
Date: February 15, 2015 11:44PM

All the heat pump fanboys are wishing they had gas heat now. Toasty warm here with gas, bitches!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: The real Billy Whack! ()
Date: February 16, 2015 12:01AM

Yep, heat pumps are useless and for FAGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Laughing Now Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All the heat pump fanboys are wishing they had gas
> heat now. Toasty warm here with gas, bitches!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: lovin me heat pump ()
Date: February 16, 2015 04:56AM

Heat pump is the only way to go in virginia provided you have a well insulated house. Right now it's 11 degrees outside and my little heat pump is keeping the house at 72 degrees without any backup heat.
Gas furnaces are potentially dangerous as well as being potentially unhealthy.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pumper ()
Date: February 16, 2015 04:35PM

The only people who would recommend a heat pump are the sleazy scumbags who sell them. Guaranteed that every poster here who recommended them here has a vested interest in promoting heat pumps.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: February 16, 2015 07:41PM

Heat Pumper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only people who would recommend a heat pump
> are the sleazy scumbags who sell them. Guaranteed
> that every poster here who recommended them here
> has a vested interest in promoting heat pumps.

Yeah, the pro-HP folks here seem to be saying either (a) "It's working for me" (which of course doesn't mean gas wouldn't work *better*) or (b) "I'm paranoid about CO1 (damnit!) poisoning", which reflects typical inability to evaluate risk. The folks who get killed by CO are typically ignorant of the risk (which anyone who's paranoid about it isn't, by definition) and with cheap detectors, the chances of anyone who isn't ignorant dying are pretty darned low.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: energy consumer2 ()
Date: September 20, 2015 03:05PM

This thread came up in a search for heat pump or gas in fairfax. Sounds like there are very different opinions out there lol!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Alan Ghore ()
Date: November 15, 2015 02:50AM

We need to ban all gas, oil, coal and wood burning heaters. This will help the environment.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: 970 btu's per cubic foot ()
Date: November 15, 2015 11:24AM

Alan Ghore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need to ban all gas, oil, coal and wood burning
> heaters. This will help the environment.


Feel free to keep your bullshit laws off my gas furnace and poorly insulated house.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: 7 Billion Plus And Counting ()
Date: November 15, 2015 09:59PM

>We need to ban all gas, oil, coal and wood burning heaters. This will help the environment.

200 Thousand Syrians Heading our way .To "Light US Up" And this Green Idiot is Shilling about the environment?? Billions world wide burning wood and coal.. But the American people need to take it up the ass with "Green Energy" to make Billionaires out of Green Energy Hacks..And Freeze our asses off with Windmill generated "Obama Heat"

Simply Put... F. You.. And Your "Obama Heat" or "Obama Energy"

Just keep that "Obama Gas" coming. F The Rest..

DAJAX

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: martinC ()
Date: November 16, 2015 12:31AM

7 Billion Plus And Counting Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >We need to ban all gas, oil, coal and wood
> burning heaters. This will help the environment.
>
> 200 Thousand Syrians Heading our way .To "Light US
> Up" And this Green Idiot is Shilling about the
> environment?? Billions world wide burning wood and
> coal.. But the American people need to take it up
> the ass with "Green Energy" to make Billionaires
> out of Green Energy Hacks..And Freeze our asses
> off with Windmill generated "Obama Heat"
>
> Simply Put... F. You.. And Your "Obama Heat" or
> "Obama Energy"
>
> Just keep that "Obama Gas" coming. F The Rest..
>
> DAJAX


You are making no sense.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: OPEC ()
Date: November 16, 2015 12:35AM

7 Billion Plus And Counting Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >We need to ban all gas, oil, coal and wood
> burning heaters. This will help the environment.
>
> 200 Thousand Syrians Heading our way .To "Light US
> Up" And this Green Idiot is Shilling about the
> environment?? Billions world wide burning wood and
> coal.. But the American people need to take it up
> the ass with "Green Energy" to make Billionaires
> out of Green Energy Hacks..And Freeze our asses
> off with Windmill generated "Obama Heat"
>
> Simply Put... F. You.. And Your "Obama Heat" or
> "Obama Energy"
>
> Just keep that "Obama Gas" coming. F The Rest..
>
> DAJAX

Yes, you tell them!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: November 16, 2015 06:57AM

7 Billion Plus And Counting Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >We need to ban all gas, oil, coal and wood
> burning heaters. This will help the environment.
>
> 200 Thousand Syrians Heading our way .To "Light US
> Up" And this Green Idiot is Shilling about the
> environment?? Billions world wide burning wood and
> coal.. But the American people need to take it up
> the ass with "Green Energy" to make Billionaires
> out of Green Energy Hacks..And Freeze our asses
> off with Windmill generated "Obama Heat"
>
> Simply Put... F. You.. And Your "Obama Heat" or
> "Obama Energy"
>
> Just keep that "Obama Gas" coming. F The Rest..
>
> DAJAX

Isn't there some Lamb Center thread you should be posting on?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Prof Heat ()
Date: November 16, 2015 08:23AM

Heat Pumper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only people who would recommend a heat pump
> are the sleazy scumbags who sell them. Guaranteed
> that every poster here who recommended them here
> has a vested interest in promoting heat pumps.

^This.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: heat pump man ()
Date: November 16, 2015 08:45AM

Cold day today Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Love my furnace, took my home from 64 to 72 today
> in less than 10 minutes.


My heat pump can do that in 3 minutes and 18 seconds.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: crank it up ()
Date: January 14, 2016 09:52AM

I switched from gas to heat pump 10 years ago. Best move I ever made. The heat pump paid for itself in 6 years.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pump Advocate ()
Date: January 14, 2016 09:57AM

Heat pumps are great, just so long as you don't need them for heating.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pumps for Dummies #101 ()
Date: January 14, 2016 01:23PM

crank it up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I switched from gas to heat pump 10 years ago.
> Best move I ever made. The heat pump paid for
> itself in 6 years.

Did the heat pump find gainful employment?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: JJDJM ()
Date: January 14, 2016 01:41PM

crank it up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I switched from gas to heat pump 10 years ago.
> Best move I ever made. The heat pump paid for
> itself in 6 years.


Very doubtful with the cost of gas vs electricity over that time, especially in recent years. Unless maybe you had a horribly inefficient old gas furnace which in that case it's not really a valid comparison.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Dave Lover ()
Date: February 12, 2016 06:34AM

Loving my Lennox heat pump this morning! 74 degrees in the house with no back up heat running at all. These new heat pumps are amazing and so inexpensive to run. Lennox heat pumps are made in America too! One of the few things made in America that is worth a shit.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: hank h. ()
Date: February 12, 2016 09:04AM

No love for propane heat or propane accessories? (/s)

I found this interesting article on fuel options... just click the arrow to see the other 3...

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2012/1207/Cheapest-way-to-heat-your-home-Four-fuels-compared/Heating-oil-2-526

TL;DR


4. heating oil
3. propane
2. electric
1. natural gas

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: February 12, 2016 11:52AM

Dave Lover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Loving my Lennox heat pump this morning! 74
> degrees in the house with no back up heat running
> at all. These new heat pumps are amazing and so
> inexpensive to run. Lennox heat pumps are made in
> America too! One of the few things made in America
> that is worth a shit.

Neighbor has two of them for his new McMansion. Both have been running nonstop since the cold wave hit.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Lennox sux ()
Date: February 12, 2016 02:02PM

You couldn't give me a free Lennox heat pump.

We had our second service call today, 18 months after installation. This time it was a "faulty pressure valve". The technician told me that this was a common failure with this generation of furnace, and billed me for 3 hours (including travel time to pick up the part). While Lennox replaced the part for free, it was clear after speaking to their consumer affairs representative that they feel no responsibility for selling a crap.

I am convinced the system is a lemon. I will NEVER purchase another Lennox product. I would rather cool my home with a block of ice and a fan before buying an unreliable Lennox Product.

During winter time compressors sounded like screaming banshees. Was told by serviceman that they were scroll type and was normal. Yeah ok. So loud, next to master bedroom wall, had units moved to other end of house. Upstairs air handler replaced within last 5 years, other noises from compressor sounded like a bag of cans rattling in the quiet of night. Serviceman said was compressor bearings going bad. Ok. Meanwhile have had outdoor unit fan replaced, numerous capacitor failures etc,etc.

I have two Lennox furnaces and air conditioning units. Continual furnace repairs including the printed circuit boards. With my recent heater problems I have called two Lennox dealers and they both have told me that they have heard my complaint many times. They were nice enough to tell me not to hire them as they have given up on trying to repair my type of furnace. My response is to never buy a Lennox product when the Lennox dealers say they can't repair the product.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/lennox.html

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: hvac guy ()
Date: February 12, 2016 02:05PM

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dave Lover Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Loving my Lennox heat pump this morning! 74
> > degrees in the house with no back up heat
> running
> > at all. These new heat pumps are amazing and so
> > inexpensive to run. Lennox heat pumps are made
> in
> > America too! One of the few things made in
> America
> > that is worth a shit.
>
> Neighbor has two of them for his new McMansion.
> Both have been running nonstop since the cold wave
> hit.


That is what they should be doing in this type of weather. They are actually a little more efficient in colder weather since colder air contains very little moisture they do not have to run the defrost cycle nearly as much as say a 40 degree day.
Heat pumps are great but if you live in an old drafty, poorly insulated house like most of us do you are better off with gas. For newly built homes heat pumps are the only way to go.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Switched to gas years ago ()
Date: February 12, 2016 05:19PM

NOT heat pump - that system works better further south than here.....in very cold weather it goes to electric only and that will cost you bucks.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Townhouse landlord ()
Date: February 12, 2016 08:49PM

Lennox sux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You couldn't give me a free Lennox heat pump.
>
> We had our second service call today, 18 months
> after installation. This time it was a "faulty
> pressure valve". The technician told me that this
> was a common failure with this generation of
> furnace, and billed me for 3 hours (including
> travel time to pick up the part). While Lennox
> replaced the part for free, it was clear after
> speaking to their consumer affairs representative
> that they feel no responsibility for selling a
> crap.
>
> I am convinced the system is a lemon. I will
> NEVER purchase another Lennox product. I would
> rather cool my home with a block of ice and a fan
> before buying an unreliable Lennox Product.
>
> During winter time compressors sounded like
> screaming banshees. Was told by serviceman that
> they were scroll type and was normal. Yeah ok. So
> loud, next to master bedroom wall, had units moved
> to other end of house. Upstairs air handler
> replaced within last 5 years, other noises from
> compressor sounded like a bag of cans rattling in
> the quiet of night. Serviceman said was compressor
> bearings going bad. Ok. Meanwhile have had outdoor
> unit fan replaced, numerous capacitor failures
> etc,etc.
>
> I have two Lennox furnaces and air conditioning
> units. Continual furnace repairs including the
> printed circuit boards. With my recent heater
> problems I have called two Lennox dealers and they
> both have told me that they have heard my
> complaint many times. They were nice enough to
> tell me not to hire them as they have given up on
> trying to repair my type of furnace. My response
> is to never buy a Lennox product when the Lennox
> dealers say they can't repair the product.
>
> http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/lennox.h
> tml


Sounds like you have had some bad luck. I have had Lennox heat pumps last over 25 years with only one or two minor repairs. My current home is heated by a Lennox heat pump that was installed in 1989. I think the quality of the installation is more important than the quality of the equipment. You might have had a crappy installer.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Like You Would Know?? ()
Date: February 12, 2016 11:25PM

You need to go to the National Harbor Casino when it opens The MGM Grand and play craps.

Screw Heat Pumps, Drafty evil P.O.S that sends money to Dominion and leaves you with Nothing in power outages. With "Peppy Flame" Natural Gas you always have heat if you have a generator to power the fan and furnace electric circuit.Plus Instant Heat and a warm ..Not Drafty home.
Attachments:
peppy.jpg

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Carrier Salesman ()
Date: February 14, 2016 07:41AM

Heat pumps are great - I highly recommend them! They pump tons of money right into my pocket. Of course, I'm no idiot - I heat my own home with neutral gas because I like a warm home.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: February 14, 2016 01:43PM

Carrier Salesman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heat pumps are great - I highly recommend them!
> They pump tons of money right into my pocket. Of
> course, I'm no idiot - I heat my own home with
> neutral gas because I like a warm home.

Neutral gas? How does that work? Does it even burn??

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: sad but true. ()
Date: February 14, 2016 05:55PM

Lennox sux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You couldn't give me a free Lennox heat pump.
>
> We had our second service call today, 18 months
> after installation. This time it was a "faulty
> pressure valve". The technician told me that this
> was a common failure with this generation of
> furnace, and billed me for 3 hours (including
> travel time to pick up the part). While Lennox
> replaced the part for free, it was clear after
> speaking to their consumer affairs representative
> that they feel no responsibility for selling a
> crap.
>
> I am convinced the system is a lemon. I will
> NEVER purchase another Lennox product. I would
> rather cool my home with a block of ice and a fan
> before buying an unreliable Lennox Product.
>
> During winter time compressors sounded like
> screaming banshees. Was told by serviceman that
> they were scroll type and was normal. Yeah ok. So
> loud, next to master bedroom wall, had units moved
> to other end of house. Upstairs air handler
> replaced within last 5 years, other noises from
> compressor sounded like a bag of cans rattling in
> the quiet of night. Serviceman said was compressor
> bearings going bad. Ok. Meanwhile have had outdoor
> unit fan replaced, numerous capacitor failures
> etc,etc.
>
> I have two Lennox furnaces and air conditioning
> units. Continual furnace repairs including the
> printed circuit boards. With my recent heater
> problems I have called two Lennox dealers and they
> both have told me that they have heard my
> complaint many times. They were nice enough to
> tell me not to hire them as they have given up on
> trying to repair my type of furnace. My response
> is to never buy a Lennox product when the Lennox
> dealers say they can't repair the product.
>
> http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/lennox.h
> tml


Sadly, anything made in America is sub-par. Mitsubishi is the king of the heat pump and A/C world. I have two of them that were installed in the late 80s and they have never failed even once.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: uu73J ()
Date: February 14, 2016 06:01PM

Heat pump with natural gas backup is the best compromise.

If you have deep pockets a ground thermal heat pump is the best approach, but few folks will pony up the cash to do this.

If you are smart you will know how to replace the capacitors in your condensing unit and keep capacitors on the shelf.

Add a hard start kit when installed.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: hvac guy2 ()
Date: February 16, 2016 10:06AM

uu73J Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heat pump with natural gas backup is the best
> compromise.
>
> If you have deep pockets a ground thermal heat
> pump is the best approach, but few folks will pony
> up the cash to do this.
>
> If you are smart you will know how to replace the
> capacitors in your condensing unit and keep
> capacitors on the shelf.
>
> Add a hard start kit when installed.


It is not a good idea to put a hard start kit on a scroll. Starting amps so much lower on a scroll than a recip that the start cap stays in the circuit too long which sends a shitload of back EMF to the run cap and blows it up over time.
If you have to use a start kit on a scroll use the ptc thermistor type and not the current-magnetic (5-2-1) type as the ptc reacts faster.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Henro ()
Date: February 17, 2016 11:12AM

Gas
75 at return
135 at supply

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: hvac guy2 ()
Date: February 18, 2016 07:40PM

Henro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gas
> 75 at return
> 135 at supply

Assuming those numbers are degrees Fahrenheit. Useless information without CFM. You must be ignorant as fuck.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Mother Teresa ()
Date: February 19, 2016 06:39AM

Hate the Planet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Use a heat pump if you hate the planet and like to
> shiver. Heat pumps use electricity generated by
> coal power plants, which typically operate at
> efficiencies of 30-35%, not counting transmission
> loss. Gas furnaces are double or triple this
> efficiency. Only a shill heat pump salesman or
> braindead zombie would recommend a heat pump over
> gas

^This. Anyone with a brain can see right through the one dumbfuck shill that keeps posting the bullshit heat pump sales pitch.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: jk ()
Date: February 19, 2016 08:04AM

Dual fuel Heat Pump / Natural Gas is a great choice. Heat pump works great for a majority of the winter. Then, during the cold spells where heat pump cant keep up, the natural gas furnace can kick in and make your home nice and toasty.

Stay away from oil, it is only used by people who do not have a natural gas option.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Fuck you, Oborona ()
Date: February 19, 2016 12:13PM

.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: dingus ()
Date: February 19, 2016 01:21PM

jk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dual fuel Heat Pump / Natural Gas is a great
> choice. Heat pump works great for a majority of
> the winter. Then, during the cold spells where
> heat pump cant keep up, the natural gas furnace
> can kick in and make your home nice and toasty.
>
> Stay away from oil, it is only used by people who
> do not have a natural gas option.

I love the dual fuel. Set my changeover temp at 20 degrees so the furnace rarely runs except when the heat pump is defrosting. The gas furnace dries the house out really bad so I try to avoid using it.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Fuck you, Oborona ()
Date: February 19, 2016 01:43PM

j

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: pop bumper ()
Date: February 19, 2016 03:20PM

teeny bumo

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Made in the USA ()
Date: February 19, 2016 03:39PM

Go with natural gas.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Fuck you, Oborona ()
Date: February 19, 2016 06:29PM

jNwbc

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: savin the planet 2 ()
Date: February 20, 2016 10:01AM

Oil or gas are horrible. Only way to heat is with a heat pump and leave that thermostat at 60 degrees in the winter no matter how you heat. 60 is all you need you filthy animals!!
Attachments:
save.png

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: dan theman ()
Date: February 20, 2016 12:51PM

Love my heat pump. Saved me a shitload of money over strip heat.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: UDX63 ()
Date: February 20, 2016 01:43PM

This is easy question. Everyone should burn niggers. The oversupply would be gone in one winter.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: social science ()
Date: February 20, 2016 04:35PM

UDX63 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is easy question. Everyone should burn
> niggers. The oversupply would be gone in one
> winter.


They are mostly water and do not burn well at all.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: People ()
Date: February 20, 2016 04:44PM

People who buy heat pumps on purpose are the same ones who buy the $75 semi-annual checkups and then pay $200 to replace a $6.00 capacitor.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: sisterinlawofsurleymcnasty ()
Date: February 21, 2016 07:14PM

buy a quarter ton of beans every fall, hook a hose to your butt, and heat with methane.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: insulation sales ()
Date: March 30, 2016 08:22AM

Heat pumps are the best option if you have a well insulated house. Most people in this area have poorly insulated homes so they are forced to use a nasty gas furnace to be comfortable.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Pump my heater ()
Date: March 30, 2016 01:59PM

long haul paul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Long haul Paul here.
>
> I am on the road quite a bit and I spend less than
> 100 nights a year at home but I love my heat pump.
> It is old but has never let me down.
>
> See you on the interstate!
>
> LHP 10-10 on the side.


What are you using it for? Sexual stimulation?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: long haul paul ()
Date: March 31, 2016 01:35AM

Pump my heater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> long haul paul Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Long haul Paul here.
> >
> > I am on the road quite a bit and I spend less
> than
> > 100 nights a year at home but I love my heat
> pump.
> > It is old but has never let me down.
> >
> > See you on the interstate!
> >
> > LHP 10-10 on the side.
>
>
> What are you using it for? Sexual stimulation?


Read more at,

http://www.longhaulpaul.com/

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Mr. Blackwell ()
Date: March 31, 2016 06:17PM

insulation sales Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heat pumps are the best option if you have a well
> insulated house. Most people in this area have
> poorly insulated homes so they are forced to use a
> nasty gas furnace to be comfortable.


Nasty gas furnaces? You must be gay.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Vixis ()
Date: March 31, 2016 08:54PM

We have a hybrid system (heat pump/oil) that was installed, if the temp outside stays above freezing, the heat pump is on. If it goes below freezing, the oil heat kicks in. We also have digital controls, when we leave the house and after we go to bed the temp drops to 65. An hour before we get up and when we are home, the temp is at 72. This winter, we barely used up our 150 gallon oil tank. Our house is 1200sqft and made of field stone, homes with vaulted ceilings are a waste because you spend more money heating and cooling the house down. You also don't want a house with big windows either, the smaller the house the better.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: silent killer- natural gas ()
Date: April 01, 2016 04:24PM

Over 400 Americans die each year from gas furnaces but it's really pretty safe overall. The death rate is less than one tenth of a percent.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26032660

Heat pumps are more efficient and more comfortable though.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: new used home buyer ()
Date: October 01, 2016 03:13PM

silent killer- natural gas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Over 400 Americans die each year from gas furnaces
> but it's really pretty safe overall. The death
> rate is less than one tenth of a percent.
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26032660
>
> Heat pumps are more efficient and more comfortable
> though.


Wow! I googled Heating in Fairfax county and ended up here, this is a crazy thread. I have rented in NOVA for years but just bought a small house in Centreville and it has a 19 year old heat pump in it but gas was brought to the neighborhood years ago and the previous owner did not hook up to it. Im trying to decide if I want to risk making it through the first winter with the old heat pump or upgrade to a new one or maybe get gas heat. I have had heat pumps before and they seem okay but most of my neighbors use gas.
Any recommendations on a non-ripoff company to call? I am low on cash and will probably have to finance it. Thanks!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: gAss man ()
Date: October 23, 2016 02:58PM

new used home buyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> silent killer- natural gas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Over 400 Americans die each year from gas
> furnaces
> > but it's really pretty safe overall. The death
> > rate is less than one tenth of a percent.
> >
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26032660
> >
> > Heat pumps are more efficient and more
> comfortable
> > though.
>
>
> Wow! I googled Heating in Fairfax county and ended
> up here, this is a crazy thread. I have rented in
> NOVA for years but just bought a small house in
> Centreville and it has a 19 year old heat pump in
> it but gas was brought to the neighborhood years
> ago and the previous owner did not hook up to it.
> Im trying to decide if I want to risk making it
> through the first winter with the old heat pump or
> upgrade to a new one or maybe get gas heat. I have
> had heat pumps before and they seem okay but most
> of my neighbors use gas.
> Any recommendations on a non-ripoff company to
> call? I am low on cash and will probably have to
> finance it. Thanks!


Fuck the environment, heat with gas or oil, its all warm and shit.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: F that! ()
Date: October 23, 2016 08:51PM

gAss man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> new used home buyer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > silent killer- natural gas Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Over 400 Americans die each year from gas
> > furnaces
> > > but it's really pretty safe overall. The
> death
> > > rate is less than one tenth of a percent.
> > >
> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26032660
> > >
> > > Heat pumps are more efficient and more
> > comfortable
> > > though.
> >
> >
> > Wow! I googled Heating in Fairfax county and
> ended
> > up here, this is a crazy thread. I have rented
> in
> > NOVA for years but just bought a small house in
> > Centreville and it has a 19 year old heat pump
> in
> > it but gas was brought to the neighborhood
> years
> > ago and the previous owner did not hook up to
> it.
> > Im trying to decide if I want to risk making it
> > through the first winter with the old heat pump
> or
> > upgrade to a new one or maybe get gas heat. I
> have
> > had heat pumps before and they seem okay but
> most
> > of my neighbors use gas.
> > Any recommendations on a non-ripoff company to
> > call? I am low on cash and will probably have
> to
> > finance it. Thanks!
>
>
> Fuck the environment, heat with gas or oil, its
> all warm and shit.


Heat pumps are the ONLY way to go around here.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: trust me ()
Date: October 23, 2016 09:09PM

heat pumps are great for ac all summer and good for much of the winter (as long as temp above 30)

backup heat with gas,propane is more economical and comfortable for temps below 30

wood or pellet stove for the really cold nights is really comfortable

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pumps R For Suckers ()
Date: October 23, 2016 09:11PM

Came home, everything off late OCT and a bit of cold, hit the switch 100 K BTU of GAS heat and 10 minutes later , warm as a cat snuggled in a wool sweater by the fireplace with a nice big "log a burning"... Now Ill turn it off 20 minutes later and it will be warm all night.. Warm enough that is..

DAJAX Now to get those holes, splits and other drafts in the trailer fixed for winter comes..LOL

Heat pump.. Pollution Free Heat..What Assholes.. Worry about the National DEBT.. F Climate Change! Ones going to get you or the other and YOU CAN ONLY FIX 1 .. The Deficit! .. Libs plan.. Leave it to their Kids, Grand Kids to "Pay IT OFF"
Worrying about NATURE!!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: warm as hell ()
Date: December 05, 2016 02:17PM

If you live in a house around here built in the 40s through 80s you are better off with gas. Heat and air aint shit without insulation. If you have a properly insulated house then heat pumps are very comfortable and much cheaper to run than gas or oil. Water heater heat pumps are great too as they give free a-c and dehumidification in the summer for your basement.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: IF patrol ()
Date: December 05, 2016 08:27PM

If you heat your home with gas or oil you are an ignorant fuck.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: kilojoule ()
Date: December 05, 2016 09:03PM

^^^
And you use...?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pump ()
Date: December 05, 2016 09:38PM

We want from Heating Oil #2 to Electric Heat Pump last fall, and we save about $250 per month now.

Oil needs to be further refined to gasoline, and then I can use it.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: If You Can Get Gas ()
Date: December 05, 2016 09:54PM

And You have a overly expensive and drafty stupid Heat Pump.. Your a "AL Gore Sucker"..

Al stays plenty warm..he's got $$ To Burn From Global Warming.. Ya Ya he met with trump. Obama met with Trump. Trump sez..We had a great meeting.. then later ..Go To Hell.. LOL!! Go Trump!

DAJAX Heat pumps $..Yop like Electric so much..Get Electric baseboard heat.. And throw the $$ Away.. Suckers.. Gas Baby Gas Hit the switch and Vollia Its Warm!

Heat Pumps are Good Only Fer Country Folk who don't have LP gas for their trailers.. Gas Baby Gas..

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Gas lol ()
Date: December 06, 2016 05:15PM

Heating with gas, oil or wood is for ignorant fucks.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: try some insulation ()
Date: December 06, 2016 05:22PM

Heat Pump Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We want from Heating Oil #2 to Electric Heat Pump
> last fall, and we save about $250 per month now.
>
> Oil needs to be further refined to gasoline, and
> then I can use it.

You say you "saved" $250 which implies that you are still spending more than that? Does your house have insulation? My bill for gas heat is at most $150 in the winter.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: X3XMX ()
Date: December 06, 2016 05:28PM

The "Maff" is easy:

Before conversion, I had an oil furnace, and an electric air-conditioner. Natural Gas is not available in my area.

I was spending around $150-250 per month during the winter, and $250-$350 per month during the summer on electricity.

I was spending about $2,500 for oil ever year.

Now, I don't buy oil.

My winter bill is $300-$450 for a couple of months. The rest of the months, including summer, are $150-$300.

I'm saving about $250 per month.

My house is about 3,000 square feet.

If I had access to Natural Gas, I'd consider it. I believe that Natural Gas is going to fall in price. But, for now, I don't have a choice.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Kid Volt ()
Date: December 06, 2016 08:20PM

X3XMX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The "Maff" is easy:
>
> Before conversion, I had an oil furnace, and an
> electric air-conditioner. Natural Gas is not
> available in my area.
>
> I was spending around $150-250 per month during
> the winter, and $250-$350 per month during the
> summer on electricity.
>
> I was spending about $2,500 for oil ever year.
>
> Now, I don't buy oil.
>
> My winter bill is $300-$450 for a couple of
> months. The rest of the months, including summer,
> are $150-$300.
>
> I'm saving about $250 per month.
>
> My house is about 3,000 square feet.
>
> If I had access to Natural Gas, I'd consider it. I
> believe that Natural Gas is going to fall in
> price. But, for now, I don't have a choice.


Natural gas heat is filthy, unhealthy and dangerous. Inverter technology heat pumps blow the doors off of any gas or oil set up, no contest.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: kyle4 ()
Date: December 07, 2016 05:00AM

Fuck gas heaters.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: pete O ()
Date: December 17, 2016 10:36AM

I love my new heat pump but it iced up this morning and I had to pour warm water on it. It's way better than my old 1996 heat pump was. My contractor said the icing was just because of the storm and it is fine. I wonder what would happen if I was out of town and not here to defrost it?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heating guy ()
Date: December 17, 2016 11:07AM

Like most things in life American made heat pumps are of poor quality. Mitsubishi heat pumps are far superior to anything American made.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Frosty the HP ()
Date: December 17, 2016 02:55PM

pete O Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love my new heat pump but it iced up this
> morning and I had to pour warm water on it. It's
> way better than my old 1996 heat pump was. My
> contractor said the icing was just because of the
> storm and it is fine. I wonder what would happen
> if I was out of town and not here to defrost it?

Something is not right. Your NEW heat pump should not have iced up and should have been able to defrost itself. There wasn't that much ice to begin with. Our old piece of crap heat pump handled inches of ice. Had two feet of snow on it. Brushed off the snow. You could see it had been defrosting but finished the job once the snow was gone. That piece of garbage never iced up.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: t3vFH ()
Date: December 17, 2016 06:33PM

steam systems are good, but most do not have and cannot afford the pluming it takes to use it

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: NLFVk ()
Date: December 17, 2016 06:35PM

.
Attachments:
torch-it.jpeg
torch-it-2.jpeg

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: December 17, 2016 09:56PM

Frosty the HP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Something is not right. Your NEW heat pump should
> not have iced up and should have been able to
> defrost itself. There wasn't that much ice to
> begin with. Our old piece of crap heat pump
> handled inches of ice. Had two feet of snow on it.
> Brushed off the snow. You could see it had been
> defrosting but finished the job once the snow was
> gone. That piece of garbage never iced up.

Have to agree. Why did you "have to" pour water on it? Was it not working?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: maintenance man ()
Date: December 18, 2016 11:10AM

Greybeard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frosty the HP Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Something is not right. Your NEW heat pump
> should
> > not have iced up and should have been able to
> > defrost itself. There wasn't that much ice to
> > begin with. Our old piece of crap heat pump
> > handled inches of ice. Had two feet of snow on
> it.
> > Brushed off the snow. You could see it had been
> > defrosting but finished the job once the snow
> was
> > gone. That piece of garbage never iced up.
>
> Have to agree. Why did you "have to" pour water on
> it? Was it not working?

Maybe the heat pump needs service but more likely it is fine. As you know heat pumps heat your home by extracting heat from the outdoor air plus the heat of compression. Any air to air heat pump can get iced over in a ice storm as the outdoor coils of the unit are much colder than the outside air temperature while it is running. Freezing rain will stick to it immediately and if the top discharge grill gets frozen over the defrost cycle will do little to thaw that grill, it will try to defrost until the max defrost time is reached and will either start the heating cycle again or lockout.
It is considered normal homeowner maintenance to check the outdoor unit periodically to make sure it is free of ice and snow. If mine gets iced up at night I just put it on emergency heat and deal with it the next day, it's stupid to worry about it in the middle of the night or during a storm. Running the emergency heat a night or two is no big deal.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: The feels ()
Date: December 18, 2016 02:45PM

I understand that gas heat is inefficient and dirty but it feels so nice so I am going to keep using it but dont worry, I'll be dead in 15 or 20 years anyway. After that the rest of you fuckers that are still alive can save the planet and all that shit.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Nice Guy Eddie ()
Date: December 18, 2016 05:54PM

Lived in houses with heat pumps for years and they blow dead bear. Current house has gas and life has never been more comfortable.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: E pee A ()
Date: December 18, 2016 08:04PM

Nice Guy Eddie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lived in houses with heat pumps for years and they
> blow dead bear. Current house has gas and life
> has never been more comfortable.


That's because those houses were poorly insulated.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: VEkw3 ()
Date: December 18, 2016 09:04PM

The feels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand that gas heat is inefficient and
> dirty but it feels so nice so I am going to keep
> using it but dont worry, I'll be dead in 15 or 20
> years anyway. After that the rest of you fuckers
> that are still alive can save the planet and all
> that shit.

Yeah heat pumps are way cleaner, they are powered by electricity, which as everyone knows comes from thin air. It's not as though two thirds of American electric power comes from coal or natural gas-fired power plants.

Oh wait.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Vlad Vladimar ()
Date: December 18, 2016 09:54PM

Basic Electricity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dipshit libturds think electricity is generated by
> fairies. It would never occur to them that most
> is from coal-fired power plants. Moron heatpump
> fanboys lose again!


Any liberal who actually cared about the planet would kill themselves to eliminate their carbon footprint, but sadly, they are the world's worst hypocrites.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: bright idea ()
Date: December 19, 2016 03:40PM

I think 7000 incandescent bulbs would heat a house nicely.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Get Gas Or Be An Ass ()
Date: December 20, 2016 03:58PM

Bump

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: right over your head again ()
Date: December 20, 2016 08:26PM

VEkw3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The feels Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I understand that gas heat is inefficient and
> > dirty but it feels so nice so I am going to
> keep
> > using it but dont worry, I'll be dead in 15 or
> 20
> > years anyway. After that the rest of you
> fuckers
> > that are still alive can save the planet and
> all
> > that shit.
>
> Yeah heat pumps are way cleaner, they are powered
> by electricity, which as everyone knows comes from
> thin air. It's not as though two thirds of
> American electric power comes from coal or natural
> gas-fired power plants.
>
> Oh wait.
>
> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3


You are missing the point.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: NOVEC guy ()
Date: December 24, 2016 05:08PM

VEkw3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The feels Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I understand that gas heat is inefficient and
> > dirty but it feels so nice so I am going to
> keep
> > using it but dont worry, I'll be dead in 15 or
> 20
> > years anyway. After that the rest of you
> fuckers
> > that are still alive can save the planet and
> all
> > that shit.
>
> Yeah heat pumps are way cleaner, they are powered
> by electricity, which as everyone knows comes from
> thin air. It's not as though two thirds of
> American electric power comes from coal or natural
> gas-fired power plants.
>
> Oh wait.
>
> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3


I think most of us know how electric power is generated. The thing about heat pumps is that the electric power is used to refrigerate the outdoor air and release the heat inside the home. The electricity used by the heat pump is just to transport the free heat from "thin air" inside the house.
Don't get me wrong, I like gas heat but I only use it in extreme cold weather like below 20 degrees. I just thought it was funny that you posted info to support the argument in favor of heat pumps.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: D6dFm ()
Date: December 24, 2016 05:21PM

NO HEAT PUMP! Unless you like lukewarm air blowing through your vents. Love my gas heat!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: YVmUp ()
Date: December 24, 2016 05:24PM

Guess what?! Your electric is from a nuclear plant at Lake Anna!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Julia Brag ()
Date: December 25, 2016 07:07AM

YVmUp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guess what?! Your electric is from a nuclear plant
> at Lake Anna!


That is the cleanest way to generate electricity.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Nice Guy Eddie ()
Date: January 03, 2017 07:20AM

E pee A Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice Guy Eddie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lived in houses with heat pumps for years and
> they
> > blow dead bear. Current house has gas and life
> > has never been more comfortable.
>
>
> That's because those houses were poorly insulated.

You are probably right. One was a townhouse with a terrible metal fireplace that did nothing but let in cold air. All the neighbors had ideas on how to keep cold winter air from leaking in but not of them worked.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Cold snap ()
Date: January 08, 2017 11:59PM

Hey heat pump owners... How did this weekend work out for you? It was very cold last couple nights around 12 degrees. Just curious how your system fared. Never lived with a great pump before so I'm genuinely curious.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: January 09, 2017 12:17AM

Didn't notice (inside--sure did outside!). No issues. Of course, I haven't seen the bill yet.

Still wish we had gas, but we don't, so.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Centrville Phil ()
Date: January 09, 2017 04:52AM

Cold snap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey heat pump owners... How did this weekend work
> out for you? It was very cold last couple nights
> around 12 degrees. Just curious how your system
> fared. Never lived with a great pump before so I'm
> genuinely curious.


These new R410-a heat pumps are amazing, we stayed toasty warm and the only time the aux heat came on was during defrost cycle. Anyone who still has an old R-22 heat pump should think about replacing it. The R410-a runs much higher pressures and temperatures. The EPA bans r-22 after Jan 1 2020 anyway.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: 9DFC7 ()
Date: January 09, 2017 12:55PM

NOVEC guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think most of us know how electric power is
> generated. The thing about heat pumps is that the
> electric power is used to refrigerate the outdoor
> air and release the heat inside the home. The
> electricity used by the heat pump is just to
> transport the free heat from "thin air" inside the
> house.

Only a simpleton believes a heat pump actually extracts the heat from outdoors NOVEC. The truth is that ACs produce both heat and coolness. A heat pump operating in heat mode uses the heat being generated while dissipating the coolness as a waste product, which is the reverse of what an AC does.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Eureka!!! ()
Date: January 09, 2017 07:59PM

9DFC7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Only a simpleton believes a heat pump actually
> extracts the heat from outdoors NOVEC. The truth
> is that ACs produce both heat and coolness. A
> heat pump operating in heat mode uses the heat
> being generated while dissipating the coolness as
> a waste product, which is the reverse of what an
> AC does.

That's it! You've cracked the unifying theory of physics!! Everything previously believed is wrong!!!

In related news, up is down, black is white, freedom is slavery, wisdom is ignorance, and OP is a moron.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: 9YCe7 ()
Date: January 09, 2017 08:12PM

Eureka!!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 9DFC7 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Only a simpleton believes a heat pump actually
> > extracts the heat from outdoors NOVEC. The
> truth
> > is that ACs produce both heat and coolness. A
> > heat pump operating in heat mode uses the heat
> > being generated while dissipating the coolness
> as
> > a waste product, which is the reverse of what
> an
> > AC does.
>
> That's it! You've cracked the unifying theory of
> physics!! Everything previously believed is
> wrong!!!
>
> In related news, up is down, black is white,
> freedom is slavery, wisdom is ignorance, and OP is
> a moron.


He's right. The other guy is wrong.

Electricity used by the heat pump is NOT 'just to transport the free heat from "thin air" inside the house.' You're running a compressor and just tapping the back side vs the front side of the loop and it requires about the same amount of power. There's nothing free about the "free heat" produced either physical or financial.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Eureka!!! ()
Date: January 09, 2017 08:27PM

9YCe7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Electricity used by the heat pump is NOT 'just to
> transport the free heat from "thin air" inside the
> house.' You're running a compressor and just
> tapping the back side vs the front side of the
> loop and it requires about the same amount of
> power. There's nothing free about the "free heat"
> produced either physical or financial.

Nobody said anything was "free". But what you're saying is of course true--just orthogonal to OP's gibberish. OK, being generous, maybe that's what OP meant, but it sure isn't what he/she/it said!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pump = ()
Date: January 09, 2017 09:50PM

"DRAFT FURNACE" And Everyone knows it.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: DLdvb ()
Date: January 10, 2017 12:01AM

Throwing out a bunch of SAT words and phrases that you picked up from Big Bang Theory does not hide the fact Eureka/NOVEC that your efforts to oversell what heatpumps do has been unmasked by two independent sources, neither of whom was the OP of this thread. What you have been describing isn't your typical heat pump does. It is what a geothermal system does.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: kill a watt ()
Date: January 11, 2017 11:36AM

I like heat pump heat. Gas is too hot and dries the air out too much.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: heat pump suck ()
Date: January 11, 2017 11:55AM

Heat pumps suck ass, while I was away for 2 weeks my SO didn't realize the system had been running on auxiliary heat, had a nice $500 present from Dominion for that one. The cost to maintain and replace them is much much higher too.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: hvac guy ()
Date: January 13, 2017 09:51AM

heat pump suck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heat pumps suck ass, while I was away for 2 weeks
> my SO didn't realize the system had been running
> on auxiliary heat, had a nice $500 present from
> Dominion for that one. The cost to maintain and
> replace them is much much higher too.


Wow, I have never seen two weeks of aux heat use drive a electric bill anywhere near that high. I have oil heat in my house and like it okay but might switch to a heat pump someday. Replacing a gas furnace and a air conditioner is much more expensive than replacing a heat pump tho. Trane heat pumps are the best, I have customers that have them over 25 years old and still working fine.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Warmberry ()
Date: September 21, 2017 01:26PM

This area is perfect for a heat pump, its all you need.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Here's an idea thats almost free ()
Date: September 21, 2017 01:29PM

You can compost leaves and channel the heat into your house with insulated tubes. You can Youtube it. People have used this method for warming their greenhouses during the wintertime.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Only Idiots Suggest Heat Pumps ()
Date: September 21, 2017 04:43PM

Warmberry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This area is perfect for a heat pump, its all you
> need.


Nope, you’re wrong.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Suckers Have Money TO BURN!! ()
Date: September 21, 2017 11:51PM

That's What Ya Need To Have and replace a LOUSY Drafty Expensive ..HEAT PUMP..!

GOOD Only..OUT IN THE COUNTRY..Where you don't have many OPTIONS..and NO Natural Gas..!

DAJAX In Fairfax Co....NO Brainer..Gas Is The Only Way to Go!!If Ya Can get It...!

Separate Furnace..Separate Air Conditioner..Easiser..Cheaper to use and replace..! and Gas..Hit that Switch..Let..."Ready Flame" Do the Rest..15 minutes later warm ..and cozy..on a cold winter night! Coming Back Home From a weekend Off and The T stat turned down..

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Celie ()
Date: September 22, 2017 04:42AM

gas furnace FTW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> $180 a month vs $400+ for the heat pump users


I have a 2200 sq/ft house and have heated it with a heat pump since 1988. I have never had a electric bill over 200 dollars. Some of my neighbors have switched to natural gas and their bills are higher than mine.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Nuckin figger ()
Date: September 22, 2017 07:01AM

Burn a tire in your living room

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: I Keep The T Stat at 62 F ()
Date: September 22, 2017 12:08PM

>have a 2200 sq/ft house and have heated it with a heat pump since 1988

Tell the truth "Sweater People"..LOL

DAJAX

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Real Costs To Replace ()
Date: September 22, 2017 12:13PM

2200 sq ft house with heat pump : 9000-10000

2200 Sg Ft House AC 3 ton High Seer unit : 5500.00

2200 Sq Ft House Gas Furnace 100k BTU 2700.00

Heat Pumps..your replacing both..AC and furnace.. Like It Or Not SUCKERS!!

Ya Ya still got the coil in the house..

Then Pay Dominion BIG BUCKS For A Drafty House In Winter..Or keep The Stat at 62 and Freeze!

Heat Pumps..Suck If You Can get Gas..!

DAJAX

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Handy Andy ()
Date: September 22, 2017 02:20PM

Real Costs To Replace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2200 sq ft house with heat pump : 9000-10000
>
> 2200 Sg Ft House AC 3 ton High Seer unit :
> 5500.00
>
> 2200 Sq Ft House Gas Furnace 100k BTU 2700.00
>
> Heat Pumps..your replacing both..AC and furnace..
> Like It Or Not SUCKERS!!
>
> Ya Ya still got the coil in the house..
>
> Then Pay Dominion BIG BUCKS For A Drafty House In
> Winter..Or keep The Stat at 62 and Freeze!
>
> Heat Pumps..Suck If You Can get Gas..!
>
> DAJAX

I installed my own new heat pump last year. 2100 for equipment and a couple hundred for odds and ends. 3 ton 14 seer, r-410 heat pump discharge temps are much warmer than the r-22 unit were. I love the damn thing.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: If I Could Get My Paws ()
Date: September 22, 2017 05:22PM

On a jug of R410A..I would do it myself too on the cheap..1300 for a new AC..1400 for a new GAS furnace..some 1600 for a heat pump..YUCK!! With A Goodman Unit..LOL!! But ..I can't ..So I'm S Otta luck..!!

https://www.grainger.com/product/GOODMAN-A-C-Condensing-Unit-38GM26?breadcrumbCatId=7101&s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/38GM05_AS01?$smthumb$

3 tons to keep the trailer at 68 on a 100F day..Thin walls ya know..Kind of Flimsy..

DAJAX Permits..Who has ever heard of permits out near..Culpepper..?? LOL!

Master Mechanical License..Whats that.for...??

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Heat with ()
Date: September 22, 2017 05:24PM

'FIRE PUSSY'
Attachments:
IMG_6394.JPG

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: do it yourself guy ()
Date: September 22, 2017 05:38PM

If I Could Get My Paws Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On a jug of R410A..I would do it myself too on the
> cheap..1300 for a new AC..1400 for a new GAS
> furnace..some 1600 for a heat pump..YUCK!! With
> A Goodman Unit..LOL!! But ..I can't ..So I'm S
> Otta luck..!!
>
> https://www.grainger.com/product/GOODMAN-A-C-Conde
> nsing-Unit-38GM26?breadcrumbCatId=7101&s_pp=false&
> picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainge
> r/38GM05_AS01?$smthumb$
>
> 3 tons to keep the trailer at 68 on a 100F
> day..Thin walls ya know..Kind of Flimsy..
>
> DAJAX Permits..Who has ever heard of permits out
> near..Culpepper..?? LOL!
>
> Master Mechanical License..Whats that.for...??

You can buy r410a on ebay without an EPA license.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Ya Pal..Just Found That Out ()
Date: September 22, 2017 06:41PM

True! No EPA 608 cert for R410A That said can a homeowner pull the County permit to replace a HVAC unit at their own home..??

You'll still have to have a licensed EPA Section 608 person..with a recovery machine ..to recover any R 22 in a old unit..from the unit the coil and any lines.That will cost ya bout 300 dollars..

Don't even think of venting any refrigerant to the atmosphere..The EPA if they catch ya will burn ya $$ badly..$$ ..a new Vette Will be considered. Cheap Compared to the fines..!! No Venting..releasing Any type refrigerant old R-12 , R-22..or New ..R410A or R134A ..None..!

Then you'll need a new unit..fairly cheap and unsure if you can get name brand units like Carrier or Lennox or Traine as they may only be sold thru dealers..I don't know..The you'll need the permit and a vacuum pump, gauges, scale to charge the unit and the jug of R410A ,and a leak tester to make sure its all done right and get all the inspections done .. and to service the unit a recovery machine and tank.. ..They are not that expensive for 608 equipment 600-800 dollars as why would you want to pay someone for that..

609 auto EPA recovery machines are expensive $2500-3500 as they have to recover and reclaim the refrigerant to allow it to be recharged back to the car.. Least that's the way it was .. R134a is cheap I don't know if you can recover only and the recharge with new on a car..But Cars are Cars and House AC is House AC EPA 609 Cars and EPA 608 Stationary (house) certification required.

Oh You better have Obamacare too ..cause the medical bills may be hell if you don't know what your doing ..There some High pressures in them units and tanks pals..! !

DAJAX ..Now..What Say You..?? Go Ahead..Turn That Valve..You say you work better under Pressure..?? LOL!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: wrenchy twist ()
Date: September 23, 2017 06:51AM

Here in Canterbury woods I installed my own gas furnace! It was easy with no permits at all. Fuck gas heat!
Attachments:
13255915_10154208455754730_3256592366603914186_n.jpg

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: fxftc ()
Date: September 24, 2017 03:50PM


take that gov bank account you were supposed to be over-seeing, skip town to Florida where they love people like you

live in florida on welfare and live at the beach

CLAIM OTHERS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO FOLLOW your act, BECAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING has made the entire state a danger

(send whichever sucker you can on a bus to Fairfax, and take his seat - use it for hosting hookers)


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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: cxnty ()
Date: September 25, 2017 03:09PM

Who cares about heating your house. It's late September and my AC is running night and day.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Preparation isn’t always H ()
Date: September 25, 2017 03:15PM

cxnty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who cares about heating your house. It's late
> September and my AC is running night and day.

Do you wait until you run out of gas or the battery dies first on your car?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: cxnty ()
Date: September 25, 2017 03:54PM

Preparation isn’t always H Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cxnty Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Who cares about heating your house. It's late
> > September and my AC is running night and day.
>
> Do you wait until you run out of gas or the
> battery dies first on your car?


I've been known to push the limits.......

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: efficient 347% ()
Date: September 25, 2017 08:16PM


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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: pillow block ()
Date: September 26, 2017 02:42AM

Old people like gas furnaces. They like being all dried up and nasty.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: pillow biter ()
Date: September 26, 2017 03:43AM

pillow block Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old people like gas furnaces. They like being all
> dried up and nasty
warm.

FIFY

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Warm n cheap ()
Date: September 26, 2017 09:07AM

The right answer is heat pump with gas back-up is the best way to heat in this area. Uss the gas on days when the temps are below 20 degrees and the heat pump the rest of the time. Last winter my gas furnace only ran about 10 days. Great comfort and low utility bills.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Bill Bored ()
Date: September 26, 2017 11:29AM

Warm n cheap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The right answer is heat pump with gas back-up is
> the best way to heat in this area. Uss the gas on
> days when the temps are below 20 degrees and the
> heat pump the rest of the time. Last winter my gas
> furnace only ran about 10 days. Great comfort and
> low utility bills.

Thats called dual fuel, my contractor talked me into that years ago when our furnace and a-c needed replacement. It really saved me some money and I can turn on the gas heat anytime I want with the press of a button for those days when I come home to a cold house. I crank up the gas for an hour or so then put the heat pump back on. I love it.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: No Pal.. ()
Date: September 26, 2017 11:52AM

Its Called Dual Federal Overpaid Jobs..!

DAJAX Jesus Christ. Gas Furnace and Heat Pump..Nothing's too good For Federal Employees..Is It !

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: agree with DAJAX ()
Date: September 26, 2017 12:08PM

Seems like a waste of money to have both, just stick with a furnace

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Joe Carrier ()
Date: September 27, 2017 07:37AM

Technically, you can't "heat" your home with a heat pump; you can only slightly warm it.

Truth in labeling would require them to be called "cool pumps".

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Celie ()
Date: September 27, 2017 09:42AM

Joe Carrier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Technically, you can't "heat" your home with a
> heat pump; you can only slightly warm it.
>
> Truth in labeling would require them to be called
> "cool pumps".

In 29 winters the two heat pumps I have owned have kept my house at 72 degrees flawlessly. Never had an electric bill over 200 bucks. They are wonderful machines. Next time our water heater goes we are getting a water heater heat pump too.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Woody ()
Date: September 29, 2017 09:41AM

Heat pump and a wood stove works for me. I keep the heat pump set at 65 and make up the difference with fireplace insert wood stove.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: hotelmotelholidayinn ()
Date: October 14, 2017 01:42PM

Woody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heat pump and a wood stove works for me. I keep
> the heat pump set at 65 and make up the difference
> with fireplace insert wood stove.


Wood is by far the most expensive way to heat your home. I have a heat pump now but my last house was heated with a natural gas boiler. I believe boiler heat is the most comfortable. Heat pumps are clearly more efficient but they are not as comfortable.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Gas heat does kill people ()
Date: November 01, 2017 03:52AM

Gas Heaters Disadvantages
1. When gas heaters use natural gas, a lot of carbon monoxide is released into the air during the heating process. This results in air pollution as well as global warming.

2. Gas heaters with separate A-C are more expensive to install then heat pumps.

3. If there is a problem with the heating element of a gas heater, the entire unit needs to be changed. In the case of an electric heat pump, only the part that failed needs to be changed, making it a less costly option.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Adolf fricking Hitler ()
Date: December 23, 2017 09:25AM

I prefer to use gas. I got one hell of a gas bill years ago. Maybe I should look at a heat pump.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Home hot ()
Date: December 29, 2017 01:41PM

It's days like this that I love my new heat pump. 74 degrees in the house and the auxiliary heat has not come on at all. My old heat pump could not do that.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: tribesman ()
Date: December 30, 2017 09:33AM

Adolf fricking Hitler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I prefer to use gas. I got one hell of a gas bill
> years ago. Maybe I should look at a heat pump.


That is not funny sicko.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: The Best Is Always ()
Date: December 30, 2017 12:17PM

A gas furnace, as plain Jane as you can buy with the BTU's you need. The extra money you spend on the gas bill will be far offset by the way over extra money you will spend on repairs for a furnace with all the suckers fuel saving modules, panels, control boards, overall construction. Older furnaces put out heat for years, the more "efficient" ones break down all the time and cost a bundle to repair.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Global Warmers Hate Gas ()
Date: December 30, 2017 12:21PM

>2. Gas heaters with separate A-C are more expensive to install then heat pumps.
>3. If there is a problem with the heating element of a gas heater, the entire unit needs to be changed. In the case of an electric heat pump, only the part that failed needs to be changed, making it a less costly option.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heat pumps are more expensive then a gas furnace and conventional AC

The part is the combustion chamber on a gas furnace, they last many years, the heat elements on heat pumps fail all the time

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: December 30, 2017 08:30PM

Global Warmers Hate Gas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heat pumps are more expensive then a gas furnace
> and conventional AC
>
> The part is the combustion chamber on a gas
> furnace, they last many years, the heat elements
> on heat pumps fail all the time

Hm. One data point only: 27 years in this house, have never had to replace a heater element on our heat pump. Maybe we've just been lucky?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: HVAC Guy ()
Date: December 30, 2017 08:46PM

The best way to heat your home is with a combination coal, oil, wood furnace. You can use any one of these three fuels to heat your home. It has been proven to be the most efficient, cost effective and comfortable way to heat your home. Many people in the DC metro area have been converting their heat pumps or gas furnaces to this type of system. This is very popular in the northern US and Canada. I highly recommend it. The upfront cost is similar to a gas furnace, but the long-term savings make it worthwhile. I recommend investigating it.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: jack hvac ()
Date: December 31, 2017 07:25AM

Greybeard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Global Warmers Hate Gas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Heat pumps are more expensive then a gas
> furnace
> > and conventional AC
> >
> > The part is the combustion chamber on a gas
> > furnace, they last many years, the heat
> elements
> > on heat pumps fail all the time
>
> Hm. One data point only: 27 years in this house,
> have never had to replace a heater element on our
> heat pump. Maybe we've just been lucky?


I ran hvac residential service for 13 years before I moved on to other things. I replaced maybe 3 or 4 heating elements a year. It was a very rare failure.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: It's hard to get a Trane started ()
Date: January 01, 2018 11:05AM

Freezing the nads off with the heat pump. Never again! Next house will be gas heat.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Tell Us ()
Date: January 01, 2018 11:40AM

>I ran hvac residential service for 13 years before I moved on to other things. I replaced maybe 3 or 4 heating elements a year. It was a very rare failure.

Why you were running the calls on Heat Pumps, what where you replacing and how much a pop ?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Home hot ()
Date: January 01, 2018 12:18PM

It's hard to get a Trane started Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Freezing the nads off with the heat pump. Never
> again! Next house will be gas heat.


You must have a problem with your heat pump or maybe insulation. My heat pump is still keeping my house at 74 degrees.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: HomeOwnerPerson ()
Date: January 01, 2018 04:48PM

HVAC Guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The best way to heat your home is with a
> combination coal, oil, wood furnace. You can use
> any one of these three fuels to heat your home. It
> has been proven to be the most efficient, cost
> effective and comfortable way to heat your home.
> Many people in the DC metro area have been
> converting their heat pumps or gas furnaces to
> this type of system. This is very popular in the
> northern US and Canada. I highly recommend it. The
> upfront cost is similar to a gas furnace, but the
> long-term savings make it worthwhile. I recommend
> investigating it.

We just had one of these installed and it is great. We are currently burning coal. Last month, we used oil. The coal is great in this frigid weather! We are really happy with this unit. Much better than gas.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Charcock ()
Date: January 05, 2018 02:03PM

My gas furnace burned my face and cock.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Sorta Cold ()
Date: January 06, 2018 08:03AM

How are those heat pumps doing this morning at 10 degrees outside?

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Warmer gas ()
Date: January 06, 2018 08:16AM

Sorta Cold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How are those heat pumps doing this morning at 10
> degrees outside?


LOL!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: President Trump FTW! ()
Date: January 06, 2018 08:28AM

Sorta Cold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How are those heat pumps doing this morning at 10
> degrees outside?

All those homes are on EH using propane probably. Big time money.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Old Man Fairfax ()
Date: January 06, 2018 08:57AM

Moved to top of to do list for 2018 - converting to gas heat or hybrid heating system. This heat pump stuff sucks.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Home hot ()
Date: January 06, 2018 09:04AM

Sorta Cold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How are those heat pumps doing this morning at 10
> degrees outside?


My new heat pump is kicking ass. It is still a cozy 74 degrees and the auxiliary heat still has not come on. These new heat pumps are absolutely fantastic!

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Infra red heat ()
Date: January 06, 2018 09:08AM

House has oil burner that only worked when home inspection was done at sale.
Plus, the $300 yearly fee is bullshit.
All they ever do is change filter($20) and nozzle($12 on amazon).
The exhaust venting is horrible with more than 4 90degree bends, plus a reducer.
When the burner did work, I would get black soot near my vents.
Would work then not start.
Techs kept saying it was tank.
So, my ass used a Jerry Can with maybe 3gals of oil, less than 3ft from burner-still had prob of burner shutting down!!!!

Quoted $5500 for heat pump.
Too much $$$.

I’m running propane heaters, far infrared elec heaters on ceilings AND kerosene.
I’m burning treated heating oil in my kerosene heaters and the fumes are atrocious!
I have to cycle the propane heaters between kerosene heating, just to get rid of the diesel smell.
Insulation on house(built ‘55), is atrocious-cellulose in attic, itchy Corning pink in walls.
I wake up to a 55deg house every morning.
I needed to install a elec radiator heater in my laundry room, or my $1200 front load washer won’t work...”nF” code.

Forgot to mention my wood stove I installed 2 winters ago. Just the chimney for that was $1400.

Editors note:
Sealing the wood floors, above crawlspace, with 3 coats of polycrylic sealer has helped.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: jack jack ()
Date: January 06, 2018 09:25AM

One thing for sure, fuck gas heat! That shit will kill you. Burning alive sucks!
Attachments:
FireHouse.jpg

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Brain Cells Die When Not in Use ()
Date: January 06, 2018 09:34AM

jack jack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One thing for sure, fuck gas heat! That shit will
> kill you. Burning alive sucks!


You drive a car? Every one dies one way or another, sooner or later.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: vcnte ()
Date: January 06, 2018 09:56AM

Home hot Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
> My new heat pump is kicking ass. It is still a
> cozy 74 degrees and the auxiliary heat still has
> not come on. These new heat pumps are absolutely
> fantastic!

Knew the moment the temps dropped below 20 that some troll would come on to boast about how well his fictitious heat pump was working. I have natural gas for the main part of the house. The addition has a heat pump, but it also has ducts from the main part of the house as well that are usually kept closed. I had to open them up when the temps dropped because the heat pump could not keep up.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: HomeOwner9 ()
Date: January 06, 2018 10:08AM

HomeOwnerPerson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HVAC Guy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The best way to heat your home is with a
> > combination coal, oil, wood furnace. You can
> use
> > any one of these three fuels to heat your home.
> It
> > has been proven to be the most efficient, cost
> > effective and comfortable way to heat your
> home.
> > Many people in the DC metro area have been
> > converting their heat pumps or gas furnaces to
> > this type of system. This is very popular in
> the
> > northern US and Canada. I highly recommend it.
> The
> > upfront cost is similar to a gas furnace, but
> the
> > long-term savings make it worthwhile. I
> recommend
> > investigating it.
>
> We just had one of these installed and it is
> great. We are currently burning coal. Last month,
> we used oil. The coal is great in this frigid
> weather! We are really happy with this unit. Much
> better than gas.


I, too am surprised more people aren't going with this option. I had this system installed in our home (Burke) last year and it is great. The coal option is surprisingly affordable. If you ever run out of coal, it is a simple switch over to wood or oil. Really convenient. And the heat this puts out... wow. Super efficient and keeps our home really toasty. Even today when it is frigid.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Hepburn ()
Date: January 06, 2018 10:22AM

Of course a coal or wood fire pumps out incredible heat. It's not like you can turn them off the moment the house reaches the desired temperature. All fossil fuels are inefficient because a certain amount of heat goes up the chimney. Coal and wood are more. So because they cannot stop and start depending on the temperatures. Plus they are higher maintenance than fuel oil, propane or natural gas.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: HVACguy13 ()
Date: January 06, 2018 10:58AM

Hepburn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course a coal or wood fire pumps out incredible
> heat. It's not like you can turn them off the
> moment the house reaches the desired temperature.
> All fossil fuels are inefficient because a certain
> amount of heat goes up the chimney. Coal and wood
> are more. So because they cannot stop and start
> depending on the temperatures. Plus they are
> higher maintenance than fuel oil, propane or
> natural gas.

Not true. A triple fuel furnace like the one this person is talking about is incredibly efficient. Temperature is controlled by the fuel/air mixture and speed of the blower. It is actually more precise than your standard gas-fired furnace or heat pump.

I have installed quite a few of these in the NoVA area this year and I have heard nothing but glowing feedback. People love the flexibility, too! Most people stick with the coal, but the ability to switch over to wood or oil really appeals to homeowners.

You should investigate getting one.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: Tippy's Taco #1 customer ()
Date: January 06, 2018 12:25PM

I've been so flatulent lately all that beefy warm air coming out my ass has kept my home a humid 83 degrees.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: FFXU roadside assistance ()
Date: January 06, 2018 03:50PM

vcnte Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Home hot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >
> > My new heat pump is kicking ass. It is still a
> > cozy 74 degrees and the auxiliary heat still
> has
> > not come on. These new heat pumps are
> absolutely
> > fantastic!
>
> Knew the moment the temps dropped below 20 that
> some troll would come on to boast about how well
> his fictitious heat pump was working. I have
> natural gas for the main part of the house. The
> addition has a heat pump, but it also has ducts
> from the main part of the house as well that are
> usually kept closed. I had to open them up when
> the temps dropped because the heat pump could not
> keep up.


It sounds like you are getting trolled.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: ComfortablePerson8 ()
Date: January 06, 2018 08:51PM

FFXU roadside assistance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> vcnte Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Home hot Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > ----
> > >
> > > My new heat pump is kicking ass. It is still
> a
> > > cozy 74 degrees and the auxiliary heat still
> > has
> > > not come on. These new heat pumps are
> > absolutely
> > > fantastic!
> >
> > Knew the moment the temps dropped below 20 that
> > some troll would come on to boast about how
> well
> > his fictitious heat pump was working. I have
> > natural gas for the main part of the house.
> The
> > addition has a heat pump, but it also has ducts
> > from the main part of the house as well that
> are
> > usually kept closed. I had to open them up
> when
> > the temps dropped because the heat pump could
> not
> > keep up.
>
>
> It sounds like you are getting trolled.

Highly recommend the triple-fuel furnace people have been talking about in this thread. I have coal going right now and it is so warm in here! Really clean, too!

My neighbor has no idea I am burning coal just next door. Of course, I can burn wood or oil if my coal supply runs out. But the hopper looks really full, so I think I am good for the winter.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: FFXU roadside assistance ()
Date: January 07, 2018 08:15AM

ComfortablePerson8 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FFXU roadside assistance Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > vcnte Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Home hot Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > ----
> > > >
> > > > My new heat pump is kicking ass. It is
> still
> > a
> > > > cozy 74 degrees and the auxiliary heat
> still
> > > has
> > > > not come on. These new heat pumps are
> > > absolutely
> > > > fantastic!
> > >
> > > Knew the moment the temps dropped below 20
> that
> > > some troll would come on to boast about how
> > well
> > > his fictitious heat pump was working. I have
> > > natural gas for the main part of the house.
> > The
> > > addition has a heat pump, but it also has
> ducts
> > > from the main part of the house as well that
> > are
> > > usually kept closed. I had to open them up
> > when
> > > the temps dropped because the heat pump could
> > not
> > > keep up.
> >
> >
> > It sounds like you are getting trolled.
>
> Highly recommend the triple-fuel furnace people
> have been talking about in this thread. I have
> coal going right now and it is so warm in here!
> Really clean, too!
>
> My neighbor has no idea I am burning coal just
> next door. Of course, I can burn wood or oil if my
> coal supply runs out. But the hopper looks really
> full, so I think I am good for the winter.


You are still getting trolled lol.

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Re: best way to heat your home in fairfax? gas oil or heat pump?
Posted by: FurnaceUser41 ()
Date: January 07, 2018 08:39AM

Woke up again this morning to a warm, toasty house thanks to the coal. Probably going to go back to wood or maybe cut it over to start burning the oil soon. Temps are expected to rebound soon. But, as long as they are in the teens - coal it is!

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