http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/virginia_miliary_absentee_ball.php

No...they are just following the law which requires the address of the witness. Other jurisdictions which accept these ballots without complete documentation are the ones who are wrong in this case.

The democrates don't want those counted, because they are all voting for McCain.

yet the Dems go into the county jail and solicit votes. And before you get all 'they MIGHT vote Republican', do you think they'd vote for people who Support the second ammendment and believe in stronger sentencing? If you believe that you really ARE too stupid to vote!

BET Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The democrates don't want those counted, because
> they are all voting for McCain.


Are you sure that you want to say 'all'? A majority, likely, but I doubt more than 60/40 in favor of McCain no matter how you slice it. Just because you put on a uniform doesn't make you a single issue voter any more than being a woman makes you want to vote for Sarah Palin.

BET Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The democrates don't want those counted, because
> they are all voting for McCain.


you have no f...king idea who the military are voting for....and this isnt a democratic/republican issue

How many military members are even VA residents? I'd guess maybe half a dozen.

Even if they were originally from VA, the first thing the cheap motherfuckers do is change their residency to Florida or Texas....because there's no state income tax.

"Cheap M....?" What an ungrateful way to look up those who are called to serve our country. I'm sure tubby goes out of the way to pay the highest taxes possible.

Libertarian1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Cheap M....?" What an ungrateful way to look up
> those who are called to serve our country. I'm
> sure tubby goes out of the way to pay the highest
> taxes possible.


"Called to serve our country"???

I was among the last kids drafted to go to 'Nam. Nobody has been "called" since then (1972).

These people are volunteers...doing what is best for THEM.

So, why should I be "grateful"??

tubby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many military members are even VA residents?
> I'd guess maybe half a dozen.
>
> Even if they were originally from VA, the first
> thing the cheap motherfuckers do is change their
> residency to Florida or Texas....because there's
> no state income tax.

Are you new here? "maybe half a dozen"???? Try several dozen thousand, at the very least. Maybe even over 100,000.

This area has one of the highest concentrations of military and military families in the country.

I worked at Navy Federal Credit Union in the early 90's, and the Vienna Branch office was very crowded on most days. And that is only Navy and Marine active, retired, reserve or family members. On an average day, I'd do 150 - 200 transactions, and the other 6 or 7 tellers would do almost as many or slightly more. On the first and the fifteenth, we'd have 10 tellers on the line and we would all average 350 transactions.

Springfield and Burke are probably the highest in Military populations.

tubby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Libertarian1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Cheap M....?" What an ungrateful way to look
> up
> > those who are called to serve our country. I'm
> > sure tubby goes out of the way to pay the
> highest
> > taxes possible.
>
>
> "Called to serve our country"???
>
> I was among the last kids drafted to go to 'Nam.
> Nobody has been "called" since then (1972).
>
> These people are volunteers...doing what is best
> for THEM.
>
> So, why should I be "grateful"??


I know those hippy liberals had a band called "The Grateful Dead", and somehow that makes grateful a misspelling, but, but, wait for it,

There is no "greatful", the proper spelling is grateful.

http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/greatful.html

"Your appreciation may be great, but you express gratitude by being grateful."

Grateful Dead live performances were wonderful. RatDog's music still delivers some of that same Grateful Dead energy to a decidedly greying crowd.

The draft and the VietNam war were decided not wonderful. I'm not so naive that I believe that every single member of today's all-volunteer armed forces is there completely of their own free will, but I know for a fact that many many of these brave men and women joined the US armed forces out of a deep love of this country. In that sense, they indeed are "called" to serve their country. God bless each of them and their families.

Grateful Dead live performances were wonderful. RatDog's music still delivers some of that same Grateful Dead energy to a decidedly greying crowd.

The draft and the VietNam war on the other hand were seriously not wonderful. I'm not so naive that I believe that every single member of today's all-volunteer armed forces is there completely of their own free will, but I know for a fact that many many of these brave men and women joined the US armed forces out of a deep love of this country. In that sense, they indeed are "called" to serve their country. God bless each of them and their families.

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tubby Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How many military members are even VA residents?
>
> > I'd guess maybe half a dozen.
> >
> > Even if they were originally from VA, the first
> > thing the cheap motherfuckers do is change
> their
> > residency to Florida or Texas....because
> there's
> > no state income tax.
>
> Are you new here? "maybe half a dozen"???? Try
> several dozen thousand, at the very least. Maybe
> even over 100,000.
>
> This area has one of the highest concentrations of
> military and military families in the country.
>
> I worked at Navy Federal Credit Union in the early
> 90's, and the Vienna Branch office was very
> crowded on most days. And that is only Navy and
> Marine active, retired, reserve or family members.
> On an average day, I'd do 150 - 200 transactions,
> and the other 6 or 7 tellers would do almost as
> many or slightly more. On the first and the
> fifteenth, we'd have 10 tellers on the line and we
> would all average 350 transactions.
>
> Springfield and Burke are probably the highest in
> Military populations.


You're not thinking, Bob.

I am well aware that that there are a great many military members stationed in Virginia. This thread is about absentee ballots...and I still maintain that VERY, VERY few military people are VIRGINIA RESIDENTS,,,as in HOME OF RECORD!

They DO NOT vote in Virginia! They vote absentee in their HOME STATES....which in many, many cases is Florida or Texas, for the reason I stated previously.

Tubby..you are correct on all counts...though a little harsh describing military members as "cheap" when making rationale economic decisions. I can no more blame them for changing their state of residence to avoid state taxes then I blame people form taking sub-prime mortgages sold to them as "fail proof".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2008 09:06PM by Vince(1).

Libertarian1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grateful Dead live performances were wonderful.
> RatDog's music still delivers some of that same
> Grateful Dead energy to a decidedly greying crowd.
>
>
> The draft and the VietNam war on the other hand
> were seriously not wonderful. I'm not so naive
> that I believe that every single member of today's
> all-volunteer armed forces is there completely of
> their own free will, but I know for a fact that
> many many of these brave men and women joined the
> US armed forces out of a deep love of this
> country. In that sense, they indeed are "called"
> to serve their country. God bless each of them and
> their families.


I agree that there are military volunteers that do it out of love of country...that NFL player that was a victim of friendly fire in Afghanistan comes to mind.

But the vast majority of them do it for economic reasons....a way to get college money, etc. Read the Iraq casuality reports....the trailer parks of Appalachia are VERY well represented.

I suppose I am somewhat grateful that they are seeking a better life for themselves....but I am much more grateful that they are risking their lives in dubious adventures like Iraq....so my sons don't have to.

Barney Franks and his band of buddies should take the hit for Subprime, but they won't.

tubby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You're not thinking, Bob.
>
> I am well aware that that there are a great many
> military members stationed in Virginia. This
> thread is about absentee ballots...and I still
> maintain that VERY, VERY few military people are
> VIRGINIA RESIDENTS,,,as in HOME OF RECORD!
>
> They DO NOT vote in Virginia! They vote absentee
> in their HOME STATES....which in many, many cases
> is Florida or Texas, for the reason I stated
> previously.


You are wrong, though. While not all military in this area are residents, a good number are. Especially the retirees, but also quite a number of enlisted people serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. My father was in the military, and your only choices for which state you want your permanent residence of record to be are the state where you were a resident upon induction, the current state you're living in, or where you parents live. You can't just arbitrarily say "I like the tax laws in florida or texas, so I'll pick one of those."


Here's just a few picked from the list of deaths in Iraq:

James Francis Adamouski, 29, Army Captain, Apr 02, 2003 Springfield, Virginia

Jeffrey Joseph Kaylor, 24, Army 2nd Lieutenant, Apr 07, 2003 Clifton, Virginia (since I'm pretty sure a 24 year old lieutenant can't afford a home in Clifton, it seems he uses his parent's address as his permanent address)

James D. Blankenbecler, 40, Army Command Sergeant, Oct 01, 2003 Alexandria, Virginia

Krisna Nachampassak, 27, Marine Sergeant, Jul 10, 2004 Burke, Virginia

Alexander E. Wetherbee, 27, Marine 1st Lieutenant, Sep 12, 2004 Fairfax, Virginia

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/USDeaths.aspx

(That is going down the list barely 18 months into the war, the list goes on...)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2008 11:01PM by Bob.

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tubby Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > You're not thinking, Bob.
> >
> > I am well aware that that there are a great
> many
> > military members stationed in Virginia. This
> > thread is about absentee ballots...and I still
> > maintain that VERY, VERY few military people
> are
> > VIRGINIA RESIDENTS,,,as in HOME OF RECORD!
> >
> > They DO NOT vote in Virginia! They vote
> absentee
> > in their HOME STATES....which in many, many
> cases
> > is Florida or Texas, for the reason I stated
> > previously.
>
>
> You are wrong, though. While not all military in
> this area are residents, a good number are.
> Especially the retirees, but also quite a number
> of enlisted people serving in Iraq and
> Afghanistan. My father was in the military, and
> your only choices for which state you want your
> permanent residence of record to be are the state
> where you were a resident upon induction, the
> current state you're living in, or where you
> parents live. You can't just arbitrarily say "I
> like the tax laws in florida or texas, so I'll
> pick one of those."
>
>
> Here's just a few picked from the list of deaths
> in Iraq:
>
> James Francis Adamouski, 29, Army Captain, Apr 02,
> 2003 Springfield, Virginia
>
> Jeffrey Joseph Kaylor, 24, Army 2nd Lieutenant,
> Apr 07, 2003 Clifton, Virginia (since I'm pretty
> sure a 24 year old lieutenant can't afford a home
> in Clifton, it seems he uses his parent's address
> as his permanent address)
>
> James D. Blankenbecler, 40, Army Command Sergeant,
> Oct 01, 2003 Alexandria, Virginia
>
> Krisna Nachampassak, 27, Marine Sergeant, Jul 10,
> 2004 Burke, Virginia
>
> Alexander E. Wetherbee, 27, Marine 1st Lieutenant,
> Sep 12, 2004 Fairfax, Virginia
>
> http://www.icasualties.org/oif/USDeaths.aspx
>
> (That is going down the list barely 18 months into
> the war, the list goes on...)


Retirees are NOT covered under the Soldier's and Sailor's Act...they are CIVILIANS.

I worked at the Pentagon and other DoD sites for 18 years....and was told by MANY troops that the number one order of business when entering the military is to change one's home of record to one of the "no income tax" states as soon as possible.

I remain convinced that VERY few ACTIVE duty military members stationed here in Virginia claim Virginia as their home of record, THEREFORE they DO NOT vote here, absentee or otherwise.

Libertarian1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Barney Franks and his band of buddies should take
> the hit for Subprime, but they won't.


I guess that explains Greenspans testimony this week. Dont get me wrong...lots of blame to go around....70% republikan...30% dems.

tubby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bob Wrote:
>
> Retirees are NOT covered under the Soldier's and
> Sailor's Act...they are CIVILIANS.
>
> I worked at the Pentagon and other DoD sites for
> 18 years....and was told by MANY troops that the
> number one order of business when entering the
> military is to change one's home of record to one
> of the "no income tax" states as soon as
> possible.
>
> I remain convinced that VERY few ACTIVE duty
> military members stationed here in Virginia claim
> Virginia as their home of record, THEREFORE they
> DO NOT vote here, absentee or otherwise.


Nobody ever said that retirees are covered under SSCRA or SCRA. Besides, we aren't talking about car leases, loan caps and stays on legal proceedings, we're talking about absentee ballots. I only mentioned retirees as a qualifier, by saying that a lot of the "military" in this area are retired, but not all. We are talking about absentee ballots for deployed military, after all. Also, retirees are not "civilians". My father still has a DOD sticker with an eagle on his car, because he was a full colonel when he retired. The MPs salute him when he goes through the gate at Ft Myer or any other base. He carries the same military ID that active duty and reservists and guardsmen carry, only in the status box, his says "retired", and like active duty officers, his card says "indefinite" in the box marked "valid until". He also has what are commonly called "hip pocket orders" which means that at any time the Army can recall him to active duty if they need his specialty or even just to fill ranks to free up younger officers or whatever. He even has to update his personnel records if his address changes or his health status changes.

There are "troops" at the pentagon? Maybe there are a few doing a 1 year attache or aide de camp stint waiting for a slot at the Command and General Staff College or some other school or waiting to be sent to a combat division to lead a platoon or company, but for the most part, troops are assigned to combat units, not stuck in the pentagon with the administrators. Actually, "troops" generally means the non-commissioned fighters, the guys carrying rifles, wearing body armor and pounding their boots in the dirt. I'm pretty sure there are very few, if any combat qualified troops at the pentagon. The troops are either deployed, training to be deployed or are in units in the retooling period between deployments.

I'm sure that many "troops" believe that the first order of business is to figure out how to qualify to designate Texas or Florida as their home state, but there are also people who join the Army because they want the army to pay them to train as a singer, or a mechanic, or a cook, or whatever their recruiter promised them. That just makes them misinformed and obviously not in it for the right reasons.

You remain convinced on very tenuous evidence. If you say Virginia, instead of just fairfax, now you're talking about possibly as many as (if not more than) a hundred thousand active duty from all over the rural parts of the state, all the 18 - 25 year olds who enlisted straight out of high school have only the choice of where they currently are stationed or their parent's address as their home of record. But even within Fairfax, that is still a lot of kids who enlisted. Plus there are active duty officers who have bought homes, nearing retirement, and have changed their home of record to VA because they intend to stay here after retirement. Even some of those guys can be deployed in Iraq at the moment, they do have colonels running the brigades over there, last time I checked.

Now, as far as "troops", meaning guys who enlisted right out of high school or joined up later on down the road, those guys are not Fairfax residents unless they grew up here. There are no combat divisions or even support bases in Fairfax County. They won't be living here, they'll only be using the address of their parents. Most of them are at places like Fort Campbell, or Fort Bragg, or Schofield Barracks, etc. So if they are voting absentee in Fairfax County, that means they are FROM HERE. And I know many people who grew up here and enlisted in the army and the marine corps.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2008 02:26AM by Bob.

Whatever, man.

I still say the absentee ballots from miltary residents of Fairfax County woudn't fill a shoe box.

tubby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever, man.
>
> I still say the absentee ballots from miltary
> residents of Fairfax County woudn't fill a shoe
> box.


whatever?

That's always the last thing said by a person who realizes he may have been misinformed about a subject, but who believes that acknowledging new information will somehow make him less of a man or something, like he's admitting fault or defeat, or whatever.

The "I still say" part is just the cut and run remark, before they run away to avoid further discussion.


http://www.fvap.gov/faq/index.html#usmq2

Where is my "legal voting residence"?
For voting purposes, "legal voting residence" can be the state or territory where you last resided prior to entering military service OR the state or territory that you have since claimed as your legal residence.

Even though you may no longer maintain formal ties to that residence, the address determines your proper voting jurisdiction. To claim a new legal residence, you must have simultaneous physical presence and the intent to return to that location as your primary residence.

Military and their family members may change their legal residence every time they change permanent duty stations, or they may retain their legal residence without change. This may mean that the family's Uniformed Service member has a different legal voting residence than his/her family members. A Judge Advocate General officer or legal counsel should be consulted before legal residence is changed because there are usually other factors that should be considered besides voting.


Are you claiming that nobody (or only enough to fill a shoebox) enlisted from Fairfax County? Did your friends at the pentagon tell you that not very many people from Fairfax County join the military?

Hey, I once knew an Air Force CMSGT who maintained his residence in the People's Republic of Massachusetts throoghout his entire military career.

There are exceptions to every rule. The vast majority change their home of record, period.

There is, however, an interesting phenomena that occurs regularly....senior officers that rotate through here with high school aged kids who want to attend UVA or another VA state college or university will have their civilian spouse claim VA residency. They are usually unemployed or marginally employed....and they will pay a bit of car tax on the '84 Volvo so the kid qualifies for in-state tuition.

Like I said....cheap motherfuckers that will scam any situation that sits still long enough!

They are not in THE service, they are in THEIR OWN SERVICE and sorry,I'm not the least bit "grateful"!

tubby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey, I once knew an Air Force CMSGT who maintained
> his residence in the People's Republic of
> Massachusetts throoghout his entire military
> career.
>
> There are exceptions to every rule. The vast
> majority change their home of record, period.
>
> There is, however, an interesting phenomena that
> occurs regularly....senior officers that rotate
> through here with high school aged kids who want
> to attend UVA or another VA state college or
> university will have their civilian spouse claim
> VA residency. They are usually unemployed or
> marginally employed....and they will pay a bit of
> car tax on the '84 Volvo so the kid qualifies for
> in-state tuition.
>
> Like I said....cheap motherfuckers that will scam
> any situation that sits still long enough!
>
> They are not in THE service, they are in THEIR OWN
> SERVICE and sorry,I'm not the least bit
> "grateful"!


Oh, I get it, it's those damn volvo driving liberals. Right? (I do agree, panicky and fearful liberals do drive volvos)

they'll have their "civilian" spouse claim VA residency?

???

Having grown up in a military family, knowing many other military families over the years, and knowing about 30 people in the fairfax area who have joined the military since my father retired, I'm trying to figure out how that would work in the real world.

It doesn't make sense.

How would a married couple filing jointly deal with one spouse being a texas or florida resident, and the other a va resident? How can a dependent of a texas father and a virginia mother if such a thing is even possible, receive 100% state residency, unless the parents were divorced?

Why are they driving an 84 volvo? How many of those have you seen on a military base? or even in the real world?

I have a feeling you just believe there are a lot of people out there taking advantage of you by using loopholes that you believe exist, and they are doing it only to somehow create your current unfortunate financial or employment situation. Or maybe you spend a lot of time listening to AM talk radio or watching Fox News, and you buy into that "us against them" political divide-and-conquer ideological partisanship??

You know you can use those series of tubes to inform yourself, instead of being fed a party line, don't you? You do know why blindly and unquestioningly buying into ANY party line is bad, don't you?

][ n



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2012 02:02PM by Alias.

Alias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bob wrote:
>
> they'll have their "civilian" spouse claim VA
> residency?
> ______________
>
> And then God said, "Bob doesn't know shit about
> capital letters."

Get over yourself.

Wow, I didn't capitalize the 'T' in They'll. Oh my god! Anything I might have said is invalid.

Or was it when I wrote "VA"? Because then you are the moron since you don't know about proper postal state abbreviations. http://www.usps.com/ncsc/lookups/abbr_state.txt -- VA is how you write "Virginia" in an address on a piece of mail.

Alias, did you ever hook up with AA? Obviously not.

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Oh, I get it, it's those damn volvo driving
> liberals. Right? (I do agree, panicky and fearful
> liberals do drive volvos)
>
> they'll have their "civilian" spouse claim VA
> residency?
>
> ???
>
> Having grown up in a military family, knowing many
> other military families over the years, and
> knowing about 30 people in the fairfax area who
> have joined the military since my father retired,
> I'm trying to figure out how that would work in
> the real world.
>
> It doesn't make sense.
>
> How would a married couple filing jointly deal
> with one spouse being a texas or florida resident,
> and the other a va resident? How can a dependent
> of a texas father and a virginia mother if such a
> thing is even possible, receive 100% state
> residency, unless the parents were divorced?
>
> Why are they driving an 84 volvo? How many of
> those have you seen on a military base? or even in
> the real world?
>
> I have a feeling you just believe there are a lot
> of people out there taking advantage of you by
> using loopholes that you believe exist, and they
> are doing it only to somehow create your current
> unfortunate financial or employment situation. Or
> maybe you spend a lot of time listening to AM talk
> radio or watching Fox News, and you buy into that
> "us against them" political divide-and-conquer
> ideological partisanship??
>
> You know you can use those series of tubes to
> inform yourself, instead of being fed a party
> line, don't you? You do know why blindly and
> unquestioningly buying into ANY party line is bad,
> don't you?



Dude, I don't mind anyone scamming the system for their own personal gain...I do it myself every chance I get.

My objection is holding themselves up as "heroes", when they are nothing of the kind. They are in their OWN service, period.

You take things way too literally....the '84 Volvo reference was just an example. Part of the in-state tuition scam is paying local taxes, such as the car tax...so obviously they will pay it on their oldest car, WHATEVER IT IS! The older the car the less the tax, see?

And incidentally, military people do buy a lot of Volvos while stationed in Europe (if the exchange rate is favorable) and ship them home. I used to be involved household goods shipments when I worked for DoD....which is also why I know how these guys and gals think.


I'm done with this thread, but to put my position in a nutshell.....the last military heroes were my father's generation. They went to war, defeated Hitler and Hirohito, and came home and GOT THE HELL OUT OF THE MILITARY. No cradle-to-grave mooching, and "I'ma hero" bullshit from them.

The GOP is in the right on this one.

The ballot doesn't have a space for address and other localities are allowing military absentees to vote despite this clerical error.

It's not quite as BS'y as the case in Ohio where voter registration forms weren't on thick enough paper so they were rejected, but it's a 7/10 on my BS meter.