So, I went into DC today for some personal business and then headed home. When I pulled off of I-66 onto route 7, the whole off-ramp was filled with state troopers and people being pulled over. They signaled for me to pull over, and told me the whole damn road was HOV from something like 4-6:30! Whose idea was this?

Are there any signs? I didn't notice any. I have never heard of an "HOV road" and it wouldn't have entered my mind to think that there might be one. I was simply driving home, and with there being a river and all there are only 2 or 3 ways from there to here. Why the fuck don't they set up their roadblock at the beginning of the road, instead of letting people drive on it and then ticketing them?

I'm flabbergasted that there's a major public road that I'm simply not allowed to drive on. I have somewhere to go, so I figure out the way there, and drive. I assume I'm free to go on any public road in the USA. Are these things common around the area, or the country?

As I sat there waiting for the cop to come back, more than 2/3rds of the people driving on the ramp were alone, so Im not the only person who was unaware of this. They didn't even stop all of them, because there wasn't any room left and they couldn't write that many tickets. The traffic on I-66 was pretty light, so if 3/4s of those people are violators, that means we have a law whose goal is to basically empty a road so a tiny number of people can drive fast.

How much is this going to cost me? It doesn't say on the ticket. Is there any chance of getting out of this somehow?

What about the other bridges over the Potomac, are they open to lone drivers, or am I supposed to swim?

LOL, I see those statey's sitting there all the time on my way home, they pull over ALOT of cars there for violating the HOV rule. In the mornings, they'll also sit on 66 right under the West Falls Church metro walkway.

And yup, HOV has been in effect there for years. Sorry ya got busted.


Dane G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, I went into DC today for some personal
> business and then headed home. When I pulled off
> of I-66 onto route 7, the whole off-ramp was
> filled with state troopers and people being pulled
> over. They signaled for me to pull over, and told
> me the whole damn road was HOV from something like
> 4-6:30! Whose idea was this?

Generally inside the beltway is considered HOV. I used the road for years and didn't get caught. They always ticket on the off ramps inside the beltway where it is HOV.

I was actually trying to obey the law and getting off the road at 4:35 and I got ticketed. Same deal, cop at the end of the off ramp with his car sideways across the ramp. An Alexandria exit. At first I thought, humm wonder what that cops is doing, must be an accident. Then I said, "Oh shit, I don't want to know what he's doing now!! F!"

He waved me over with three other cars and said stay here. Then when he got done ticketing the rest he came over and asked me "Do you know I-66 is HOV?" I said, "Yes."

He walked around the car looking in the windows and then said, "Do you know you only have one person in your car." I said, "Yes, but I was just getting off the road it's only 4:35?"

I went to court because I thought it was bogus for 5 minutes, (I was on the off ramp.) At the court house there was a hot clerk (in Alexandria) so I asked her how many people beat an HOV violation and she said 0. I paid the ticket and left.

My ticket was years ago and cost $75, no points. I think now it is 3 or 4 points because before people were just risking it and if they got caught just paying the $75.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2008 08:24PM by Lurker..

Lurker. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At the court
> house there was a hot clerk (in Alexandria) so I
> asked her how many people beat an HOV violation
> and she said 0. I paid the ticket and left.

How much did it cost?

Mine was $75 and no points, but that was years ago. I think it's more now and some points 3 or 4. There should be a number to call on the ticket.

FUCK THE POLICE

The police don't write the laws. Fuck the legislators.

taso Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The police don't write the laws.

nor do they abide by them.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

By the way, does anyone know if there are in fact any signs? You head west on Constitution Avenue, and then it becomes I-66. Is there any place where there's a sign and a way to get off before you've broken the law?

That's what pisses me off. Sit in traffic on 66 and watch the cars go by in the HOV lane. Every other one will have red and blue reflectors on the visor or some other indication that they are "law enforcement." Most of these are non-emergency personnel of some kind just take advantage of a loophole in the HOV laws that exempt the police. Fuckers.


Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> taso Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The police don't write the laws.
>
> nor do they abide by them.

Lurker. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Generally inside the beltway is considered HOV. I
> used the road for years and didn't get caught.
> They always ticket on the off ramps inside the
> beltway where it is HOV.
>
> I was actually trying to obey the law and getting
> off the road at 4:35 and I got ticketed. Same
> deal, cop at the end of the off ramp with his car
> sideways across the ramp. An Alexandria exit. At
> first I thought, humm wonder what that cops is
> doing, must be an accident. Then I said, "Oh
> shit, I don't want to know what he's doing now!!
> F!"
>
> He waved me over with three other cars and said
> stay here. Then when he got done ticketing the
> rest he came over and asked me "Do you know I-66
> is HOV?" I said, "Yes."
>
> He walked around the car looking in the windows
> and then said, "Do you know you only have one
> person in your car." I said, "Yes, but I was just
> getting off the road it's only 4:35?"
>
> I went to court because I thought it was bogus for
> 5 minutes, (I was on the off ramp.) At the court
> house there was a hot clerk (in Alexandria) so I
> asked her how many people beat an HOV violation
> and she said 0. I paid the ticket and left.
>
> My ticket was years ago and cost $75, no points.
> I think now it is 3 or 4 points because before
> people were just risking it and if they got caught
> just paying the $75.


I believe your story with the exception of the hot clerk in Alexandria. Not sure if that is possible.

Dane G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, does anyone know if there are in fact
> any signs? You head west on Constitution Avenue,
> and then it becomes I-66. Is there any place where
> there's a sign and a way to get off before you've
> broken the law?


There are signs on every ramp and signs on I-66 when the HOV is in effect.

Regarding the cops, about once every two weeks they put up a check-point in the middle of I-66 (not just the ramps) and pull people over. I guess the goal is to get people who are taking it beyond the beltway. Anyway, every time the cops pull over dozens of cars. Some people never learn.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2008 09:57AM by WashingToneLocian.

Lurker. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Generally inside the beltway is considered HOV. I
> used the road for years and didn't get caught.
> They always ticket on the off ramps inside the
> beltway where it is HOV.
>
> I was actually trying to obey the law and getting
> off the road at 4:35 and I got ticketed. Same
> deal, cop at the end of the off ramp with his car
> sideways across the ramp. An Alexandria exit. At
> first I thought, humm wonder what that cops is
> doing, must be an accident. Then I said, "Oh
> shit, I don't want to know what he's doing now!!
> F!"
>
> He waved me over with three other cars and said
> stay here. Then when he got done ticketing the
> rest he came over and asked me "Do you know I-66
> is HOV?" I said, "Yes."
>
> He walked around the car looking in the windows
> and then said, "Do you know you only have one
> person in your car." I said, "Yes, but I was just
> getting off the road it's only 4:35?"
>
> I went to court because I thought it was bogus for
> 5 minutes, (I was on the off ramp.) At the court
> house there was a hot clerk (in Alexandria) so I
> asked her how many people beat an HOV violation
> and she said 0. I paid the ticket and left.
>
> My ticket was years ago and cost $75, no points.
> I think now it is 3 or 4 points because before
> people were just risking it and if they got caught
> just paying the $75.

Your story is a lie. There is no way that you got your ticket in Alexandria. It is physically impossible. I-66 does not exist in the city of Alexandria. If you are going to make up stories, at least make them plausible.

Dane G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, does anyone know if there are in fact
> any signs? You head west on Constitution Avenue,
> and then it becomes I-66. Is there any place where
> there's a sign and a way to get off before you've
> broken the law?


There are about 4 signs from the E St. merge to the first Rt. 29 exit in Roslyn. After the first sign (which is pretty big), you can exit onto the GW Parkway, Route 50 or Route 29. All of those are major roads, so you should be able to get to your destination. While it sucks you got a ticket, I have to wonder what you were doing that you were so distracted that you missed multiple signs. Pay attention to your surroundings for your safety and the safety of your fellow motorists.

66 has been HOV for many many years and there are multiple signs. The last exit you can take after crossing the Roosevelt bridge is at 29. The sign is huge. There is also a sign that has those lights with changing messages on them that plainly states it is HOV. Probably best to actually read and understand the signs when you drive. Do you drive in the lane with the big red X too (and say to yourself, "Gee, I wonder what that big red X means?")?

I was concentrating on the traffic and merging safely in an unfamiliar area. Do you read and comprehend every single sign you ever pass by? It just didn't enter my imagination to watch out for "HOV road" signs. They never taught us about such a thing in driver's ed or anywhere else. A special law that only exists on one road? It's like those speed-trap towns, they catch lots of people because nobody reads every single sign.

Oh, and obviously I'm not the only one since most people on the road were violators. The road would have been almost empty if it only had the HOV cars.

Why don't we simply close the road entirely during rush hour? Then there would be no traffic jams at all.

66er Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Your story is a lie. There is no way that you got
> your ticket in Alexandria. It is physically
> impossible. I-66 does not exist in the city of
> Alexandria. If you are going to make up stories,
> at least make them plausible.

He got a ticket for the exit ramp to Alexandria. It could have been the GW Parkway or even Route 7 (when you are on Route 7 near 66 it has Alexandria as the direction reference).

66er Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> (Lurker) Your story is a lie. There is no way that you got
> your ticket in Alexandria. It is physically
> impossible. I-66 does not exist in the city of
> Alexandria. If you are going to make up stories,
> at least make them plausible.

It was years ago, maybe it was Arlington? White police car, geezer looking guy with a badge and gun.

Dane G, you must not be from around here...

Dane G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, and obviously I'm not the only one since most
> people on the road were violators. The road would
> have been almost empty if it only had the HOV
> cars.
>
> Why don't we simply close the road entirely during
> rush hour? Then there would be no traffic jams at
> all.

Uh... no. I take the road as a law-abiding HOV'er once or twice a week. There are vilators but it isn't "most" of the cars. There are still backups. I'm sorry you got caught for breaking the law, but HOV-2 is needed on that road. It wouldn't surprise me to see HOV-3 as with I-395 one day.

But you are correct in that there are violators... good to see the police are enforcing HOV on I-66, and a bit satisfying to see those caught be bitter about it.

By the way, HOV-2 on I-66 inside the beltway is 6:30a-9:00a eastbound (all lanes) and 3:00a-6:30a westbound (all lanes).

http://www.virginiadot.org/travel/hov-noexcuses.asp

pgens Wrote:
> Uh... no. I take the road as a law-abiding HOV'er
> once or twice a week. There are vilators but it
> isn't "most" of the cars. There are still
> backups.

After the cop told me why he pulled me over, he took my license and registration and walked away. While I waited for him to come back, I watched the other cars coming down the ramp in my side mirror. I don't know about the whole road, but I know that more than half the cars coming down the Route-7 ramp while I was there had lone drivers. They were pulling so many people over that they ran out of space and they had to let some violators drive by while they ticketed the others.

I'm from this area, but I haven't driven to DC very many times, and I've never had to commute there. I spend most of my time more to the west.

there are and have been for years signs posted about the hov everywhere...youre a fucking idiot.

Dane G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, I went into DC today for some personal
> business and then headed home. When I pulled off
> of I-66 onto route 7, the whole off-ramp was
> filled with state troopers and people being pulled
> over. They signaled for me to pull over, and told
> me the whole damn road was HOV from something like
> 4-6:30! Whose idea was this?
>
> Are there any signs? I didn't notice any. I have
> never heard of an "HOV road" and it wouldn't have
> entered my mind to think that there might be one.
> I was simply driving home, and with there being a
> river and all there are only 2 or 3 ways from
> there to here. Why the fuck don't they set up
> their roadblock at the beginning of the road,
> instead of letting people drive on it and then
> ticketing them?
>
> I'm flabbergasted that there's a major public road
> that I'm simply not allowed to drive on. I have
> somewhere to go, so I figure out the way there,
> and drive. I assume I'm free to go on any public
> road in the USA. Are these things common around
> the area, or the country?
>
> As I sat there waiting for the cop to come back,
> more than 2/3rds of the people driving on the ramp
> were alone, so Im not the only person who was
> unaware of this. They didn't even stop all of
> them, because there wasn't any room left and they
> couldn't write that many tickets. The traffic on
> I-66 was pretty light, so if 3/4s of those people
> are violators, that means we have a law whose goal
> is to basically empty a road so a tiny number of
> people can drive fast.
>
> How much is this going to cost me? It doesn't say
> on the ticket. Is there any chance of getting out
> of this somehow?
>
> What about the other bridges over the Potomac, are
> they open to lone drivers, or am I supposed to
> swim?


HOV 1st offense is 125, plus court costs. If you prepay, it will cost you $187. If you go to court, it will probably cost you $212. I'm not sure about whether you'll get points for an HOV violation, though. (you do know what points are, don't you? Please don't tell me you're that stupid.)

Did you like just move here? Is this your first time in a metropolitan area? Don't you read road signs? Were you busy on your cell phone instead of paying full time and attention while driving?


Yes, they built 66 as a commuter road, and set HOV times in order to encourage, surprise, surprise, high occupancy vehicles. In fact, it was originally meant to be 3 people per car, but as newbies like you arrived and complained, they lowered the requirement to just 2 people. It was meant to encourage carpooling.

You also know you shouldn't drive in the center portion of 395 and 95, because that was built to serve the same goal, to encourage carpooling. Also, you've seen the left lane outside of the beltway on 66, or the left lane on route 267 (the toll road) or on 270? Same concept.

Hell, I've seen this all over the country, they have it on the NJ turnpike, on some roads outside Denver, all over Chicago, even in St. Louis and Dallas.

I can't believe you didn't know this.

Are you one of those people who drives in the left lane going the speed limit? Or makes left turns into the right lane, and right turns into the left lane? Maybe you just didn't learn how to drive, other than how to point your car in the direction you want to drive. Sounds like you don't actually know the rules of driving, you just know how to get where you're going without killing anyone (or are just lucky enough to have not killed anyone so far.)

Dane G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, does anyone know if there are in fact
> any signs? You head west on Constitution Avenue,
> and then it becomes I-66. Is there any place where
> there's a sign and a way to get off before you've
> broken the law?


Yes. there are signs going over the bridge, but you can still get on the bridge in order to take the GW parkway/50 exit right at the end of the bridge, and maybe even to take the key bridge/rosslyn exit, but after that, you must have a passenger to continue.

I'm pretty sure the signs for the GW/50 exit also show the rest of the lanes are HOV only, continuing on 66, from 4 to 6:30.

I guess the only way airheads and morons would get the message would be for VDOT to text message it to you when you're about to violate the law.

Dane G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens Wrote:
> > Uh... no. I take the road as a law-abiding
> HOV'er
> > once or twice a week. There are vilators but
> it
> > isn't "most" of the cars. There are still
> > backups.
>
> After the cop told me why he pulled me over, he
> took my license and registration and walked away.
> While I waited for him to come back, I watched the
> other cars coming down the ramp in my side mirror.
> I don't know about the whole road, but I know that
> more than half the cars coming down the Route-7
> ramp while I was there had lone drivers. They were
> pulling so many people over that they ran out of
> space and they had to let some violators drive by
> while they ticketed the others.
>
> I'm from this area, but I haven't driven to DC
> very many times, and I've never had to commute
> there. I spend most of my time more to the west.


Well, that explains it. You aren't really "from this area" unless you include winchester and all those other places "more to the west".

The cops can only pull over so many people. You saw the people who lucked out because you got there a few minutes before they did. A lot of people take a chance every day, hoping they'll get away with it. The state police only set up those checkpoints on random days, not every day. And if you take a chance on going to the dulles toll road, all you have to do is get past the 123 exit, and you're home free, because you are allowed to take 66 from DC if you are going to the airport, but you have to get on the access road to the airport, so you are vulnerable between the access/toll road split and the on-ramp from 66. After that, the cops can't tell if you got on at 123.

also they could have been driving hybrid cars which are allowed even with just the single driver

dummy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> also they could have been driving hybrid cars
> which are allowed even with just the single driver


I've never understood the logic behind that. The only place Hybrid cars have better gas mileage is in stop and go traffic. Once they get above 45 mph and do not take advantage of the constant "regenerative braking" of stop and go traffic, their miles per gallon figures drop. Some hybrids get 40 mpg city and 25 highway.

Not to mention, why wouldn't my brand new Jetta tdi 6 speed manual gets 50 mpg combined city/highway. I don't get to drive in HOV lanes. Why?

Besides, all this talk about more fuel efficient cars is sorta overlooking the past, or outright hoping we forget. I owned a CRX Hi that got 54 mpg highway back in 1991. Just because cars got less fuel efficient between then and now doesn't make getting 45 mpg with a complex battery/ICE setup some major breakthrough.

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not to mention, why wouldn't my brand new Jetta
> tdi 6 speed manual gets 50 mpg combined
> city/highway. I don't get to drive in HOV lanes.
> Why?

Because you might get in the way of some douchebag with a hybrid SUV that gets 19 MPG instead of the 17 MPG of the regular version.

Not to mention, hybrid cars do nothing regarding congestion, which is supposed to be the point of this law.

This HOV thing on 66 is not new. I have lived here my entire life and it has always been HOV during rush hour, even as far back as the early 80s when I started driving.

As for seeing so many violators, they are most likely not violating out of ignorance like you were. Most of them were probably hoping they would not get caught. That's why the fines are so high now.

In addition to allowing hybrid cars as someone mentioned, if you have a baby in a baby seat, it counts, and you can't always see those babies from your vantage point. Same for other small kids whose heads don't show over the seats.

Oh by the way, the hybrid thing is history. Only certain grandfathered cars can use the highway during HOV hours now.

Since we're talking about the I-66 corridor, you are incorrect.

"http://www.virginiadot.org/news/northern_virginia/2008/hov_exemption_for_hybrid.asp"

Partial quote:

"RELEASE:

CONTACT: IMMEDIATE

Mike Salmon (703) 383-2055
mike.salmon@vdot.virginia.gov

NR08-28

March 18, 2008


HOV Exemption for Hybrid Vehicles Extended to June 30, 2009


Hybrid vehicles with the required clean fuel license plates will continue to be able to use the I-95/395, I-66 and Dulles Toll Road HOV lanes until June 30, 2009, according to the Virginia Department of Transportation. The Virginia General Assembly approved a one-year extension which was signed into law by Governor Kaine on March 10.

In order for a hybrid vehicle to use Virginia’s HOV lanes during the morning and afternoon rush hours, the vehicle must have a clean special fuel plate issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). Not all hybrids qualify for clean fuel license plates but the following do: 2004 Honda Civic, 2004 Honda Insight, 2004 Toyota Prius, 2005 Toyota Prius, 2005 Honda Insight, 2005 Honda Civic, 2005 Ford Escape, 2006 Ford Escape, 2006 Toyota Highlander, 2006 Toyota Prius, 2006 Lexus RX400, 2006 Mercury Mariner, 2006 Honda Accord, 2006 Honda Civic, 2006 Honda Insight, 2006 Mazda Tribute, 2007 Toyota Camry, 2007 Lexus GS450h, 2007 Lexus RX400h, 2007 Ford Escape, 2007 Mercury Mariner, 2007 Honda Accord, 2007 Honda Civic, 2007 Toyota Highlander, 2007 Toyota Prius, 2007 Nissan Altima 2.5, 2008 Ford Escape, 2008 Honda Civic, 2008 Lexus GS450h, 2008 Lexus RX400h, 2008 Lexus LS600h, 2008 Mazda Tribute, 2008 Mercury Mariner, 2008 Nissan Altima 2.5, 2008 Toyota Camry, 2008 Toyota Highlander, 2008 Toyota Prius. Motorists should check the DMV Web site, www.dmvnow.com for an updated list of eligible hybrids.

2009 vehicles that currently qualify:

2009 Ford Escape, Honda Civic, Lexus GS450h, Lexus LS600h,
Mazda Tribute, Mercury Mariner, Toyota Camry, Toyota Camry Hybrid 2.4 L.,
Toyota Highlander, Toyota Prius

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dummy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > also they could have been driving hybrid cars
> > which are allowed even with just the single
> driver
>
>
> I've never understood the logic behind that. The
> only place Hybrid cars have better gas mileage is
> in stop and go traffic. Once they get above 45
> mph and do not take advantage of the constant
> "regenerative braking" of stop and go traffic,
> their miles per gallon figures drop. Some hybrids
> get 40 mpg city and 25 highway.
>
> Not to mention, why wouldn't my brand new Jetta
> tdi 6 speed manual gets 50 mpg combined
> city/highway. I don't get to drive in HOV lanes.
> Why?
>
> Besides, all this talk about more fuel efficient
> cars is sorta overlooking the past, or outright
> hoping we forget. I owned a CRX Hi that got 54
> mpg highway back in 1991. Just because cars got
> less fuel efficient between then and now doesn't
> make getting 45 mpg with a complex battery/ICE
> setup some major breakthrough.

I have a hybrid, drive 66 and get 52 mph. There is still plenty of start and stop on 66 even in the HOV lane.

FFX Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh by the way, the hybrid thing is history. Only
> certain grandfathered cars can use the highway
> during HOV hours now.


Only on 395. On I-66, both the older and new clean fuel plates still qualify.

FFX Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh by the way, the hybrid thing is history. Only
> certain grandfathered cars can use the highway
> during HOV hours now.


That only applies to 395.

Usually the HOV lane gets me exempted from the backups that occur before Rt. 50.

On the Dulles Toll Road, I usually am stuck between FFX Co. Parkway and Hunter Mill, sometimes it's a little bit lighter. If the hybrid exemption is repealed, I'll probably just use Lee Road, 50, Centerville Road, Franklin Farm, West Ox, Folkstone, Fox Mill, Lawyers, Soapstone, South Lakes, Sunset Valley, and Hunter Mill to join the party.

It's about 50/50 whether I get stuck in backups between Rt. 50 and Rt 123. Occasionally, it loosens up between 50 and 123 (function of the traffic gods). I WILL get stuck in the backup that occurs before the Beltway. No exceptions there. :P

Inside the Beltway, there's sometimes a tie up eastbound where the Dulles Toll Road merges in and there's sometimes a tie up westbound around Rt. 29/Dulles Toll Road. There's been days I haven't had to hit the brakes once between Rt. 110 and Nutley. (I think the WB delays get going really good between Nutley and 123, or 123 and 50 on a good day.)

DMV web says hybrid can use HOV lane till June 2009. will there be an extension?