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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: sal ()
Date: March 05, 2006 04:25PM

and pgens,
>Apparently you are not aware that Virginia citizens are allowed, with a firearm, to >protect themselves with deadly force if life is in danger and retreat is not >possible. So my comparison is not apples to oranges at all.

Apparently you are not aware that a citizen has no legal authority to attempt to stop a vehicle wheras the officer did. Therefore a citizen stepping in front of a vehicle under unknown circumstances and an officer trying to make a legal arrest are not in the same category. Hence apples and oranges

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: trekroner ()
Date: March 05, 2006 06:55PM

WashingToneLoc-ian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All you people complaining because this cop did
> his job are the same ones who complain that cops
> don't do enough to stop crime. You have no idea
> what happened that night. For all you know, the
> SUV was stopped, the cop stepped in front to come
> around to the driver's side and the kid punched
> it. I wish more people would let the investigation
> conclude before jumping to half-assed conclusions.

*Ahem*... your theory sounds much more befitting of the term "half-assed conclusion;" not to mention the fact that you've speculated more than anyone.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Hawaii ()
Date: March 05, 2006 07:01PM

This case sorta reminds me of the Southpark episode from a few years ago, where one of the kid's uncles takes them out hunting. Before shooting anything, they had to yell out "it's coming right towards us!"

In all seriousness, this was a death that shouldn't of happened. I've tried to take a look at the cop's point of view, but in reality, his weapon should've never been drawn.

I think I'll wait for more to be reported about this, but from what it looks like right now, I'd put the blame on the officer. I've read reports that there were bullet holes in the side of the car. I'd like to know more about these.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: March 05, 2006 07:46PM

Genevieve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the kid was truly shot from
> the side, then I'd call this murder instead of
> manslaughter.

I don't think there is any question yet that the guy hit was hit from a shot through the front. However if you ask Sal, shots into the side of the vehicle are all part of the officer's legal authority to stop the vehicle. Likewise according to Sal, shooting bullets into the side of a car while it is passing you (in an attempt to take out the other three passengers I guess) is another part of a valid process for making an arrest.

What if it wasn't a dine-and-dash at all? What if an employee just saw them leave, told the cop they were dashers, and the cop went after them and shot them, but the money was on the table? Anyone else wondering why no charges have been filed, including on the driver, having to do with leaving the establishment without paying? Hmm...


From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/26/AR2006022601469_2.html

"One theory circulating yesterday among family and friends was that the four had left the money on the table instead of paying at the register."

"Police also told them that four or five bullets hit the car, including one in the driver's side rear door and one on a rear quarter-panel. How could that happen if the vehicle was coming straight at him?" Jeff Brown asked."

" "If their policy in a situation like this is to throw themselves in front of a moving vehicle and then use deadly force, maybe that policy needs to be reviewed," Jeff Brown said."


... and from http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/03/AR2006030301855.html

"Alexandria police officers are allowed to shoot at a moving vehicle if they think their lives are in danger and no bystanders are at risk -- but only if they have exhausted all other means of defense, including moving out of the vehicle's path, according to the department's use-of-force policy. The policy is similar to those in most Washington area police departments. But some big-city departments, including the District's, restrict the practice because of the risk to bystanders."


Edit to add:

I guess it may have been one of the side shots that hit the guy after all...

from http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/03/AR2006030301917.html

When police officers went to explain to the Browns what had happened, Jeff Brown said, he was told that one of Stowe's shots hit the Jeep's grill, another the hood, one the side door -- "that's the one they thought killed Aaron" -- and one the rear quarter panel. Aaron Brown, who was sitting in the back seat behind the driver, was hit in the side under the arm.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2006 08:02PM by pgens.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: sal ()
Date: March 05, 2006 08:43PM

Thats exactly what I said pgens thanks for expressing it so much better than I did. Where do you get this stuff?

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: March 06, 2006 07:52AM

what i want to know is how far away the jeep was before the cop started shooting and where the jeep stopped.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Fairfax MF-er ()
Date: March 06, 2006 10:05AM

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what i want to know is how far away the jeep was
> before the cop started shooting and where the jeep
> stopped.


That's a good point. The Jeep crashed into a wall at a fairly high rate of speed. Seems to back up the cop's version of things, if you ask me.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: boredom ()
Date: March 06, 2006 03:10PM

pgens, you really are clueless.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Fairfax MF-er ()
Date: March 06, 2006 04:17PM

"I don't think there is any question yet that the guy hit was hit from a shot through the front. However if you ask Sal, shots into the side of the vehicle are all part of the officer's legal authority to stop the vehicle. Likewise according to Sal, shooting bullets into the side of a car while it is passing you (in an attempt to take out the other three passengers I guess) is another part of a valid process for making an arrest."


I would have to better understand police training to say something definitive. Seems to me that trying to run a cop over with a vehicle is assault with a deadly weapon. If a guy takes a shot at a cop, misses, and then runs away with the gun still in his hand, does a cop have a right to shoot him if he thinks the guy will use the gun on him again?

I'm not saying using deadly force to stop the Jeep was the best option. But I can buy the argument that the situation, coupled with the cop's training and the law, justified the use of deadly force.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: PaperPusher ()
Date: March 06, 2006 07:04PM

Typically, we are growing accustomed/immuned to the frequent fuck-ups of those sworn to protect and serve. I suppose this situation will be soon forgotten to all those except the closest family and friends of the murdered kid.

In defense of the innocent killer, all the training in the world doesn't remove the adrenalin rush a shooter experiences when he has a target in the sights and is steadily pulling the trigger.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: sal ()
Date: March 06, 2006 08:35PM

Fairfax MF-er,

I just want to clarify as you are quoting pgens allegedly quoting me. I have never said anything about shooting into the vehicle being legal or not. On several occaisions I have clearly stated I am not defending the officer because I do not have all the facts. I was simply clarifying for pgens that a citizen, and a uniformed police officer making an arrest are not the same. Apparently he then resorted to putting words in my mouth and what if'ing some more.

I have never suggested the officer was justified. I believe there is an ongoing investigation into that. I just prefer to give the cops as much credit as we give everybody else. Innocent until proven guilty in court.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: WashingToneLoc-ian ()
Date: March 06, 2006 09:28PM

PaperPusher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Typically, we are growing accustomed/immuned to
> the frequent fuck-ups of those sworn to protect
> and serve. I suppose this situation will be soon
> forgotten to all those except the closest family
> and friends of the murdered kid.
>
> In defense of the innocent killer, all the
> training in the world doesn't remove the adrenalin
> rush a shooter experiences when he has a target in
> the sights and is steadily pulling the trigger.


Next time you have an SUV bearing down on you in an attempt to run you down and your options are to shoot or to take a chance on getting run over while trying to get out of the way, let me know what you decide to do.

Douchebag.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: March 06, 2006 10:05PM

WashingToneLoc-ian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Next time you have an SUV bearing down on you in
> an attempt to run you down and your options are to
> shoot or to take a chance on getting run over
> while trying to get out of the way, let me know
> what you decide to do.
>
> Douchebag.

Next time someone is strolling through the parking lot and your vehicle turns in his direction and doesn't stop by the time he counts to one I'm sure you'll understand if his split-second decision is assume you are trying to run him down and to send bullets into your windshield rather than taking "a chance on getting run over while trying to get out of the way."

What law of physics on your planet says a bullet stops a car? You best chance at survival is to jump out of the way!

Look, I am hoping that some other facts come out that justify the shooting. My position from the beginning of this thread is more training is needed. Even with your comment I quoted, how does a bullet justifiably enter the side of a vehicle and hit a passenger?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2006 10:07PM by pgens.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: March 07, 2006 02:21AM

indeed, for all of you who say he was in danger so he stopped the car by shooting at it, what the hell are you thinking? bullets cannot stop a two ton machine. let's say you kill the driver, now you have a two ton machine still coming.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: PaperPusher ()
Date: March 07, 2006 06:56AM

WashingToneLoc-ian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Next time you have an SUV bearing down on you in
> an attempt to run you down and your options are to
> shoot or to take a chance on getting run over
> while trying to get out of the way, let me know
> what you decide to do.
>
> Douchebag.


Not sure what hood you crawled out of but my first instinct is to run, not reach down and pull out a gun (even if I carried one) - This is the DC area, my guess is that most pedestrians have had to jump out of the way of a moving vehicle at one point or another.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Fairfax MF-er ()
Date: March 07, 2006 09:40AM

This is from the police manual in Peoria, IL. I could not find something similar for Fairfax....


"Shooting at moving vehicles is generally not effective and may increase risks to the community. However, an employee justified in using deadly force may shoot at a moving vehicle if, in the totality of the situation (e.g., if the suspect vehicle is being used as a deadly weapon toward the employee/another, or if the suspect escape would place the community in immediate fear or imminent risk), the additional risks are clearly outweighed by the need to use deadly force."

...So it sounds like this particular policy says deadly force is a bad idea, but you are justified in using it if you feel it is necessary. In hindsight, the kids most likely didn't pose a threat. But taking into consideration what the officer knew at the time - skipped out on bill, possibly drunk, using vehicle to ram an officer - the cop must have felt justified in using deadly force to protect himself and possibly other people on the road. I'm not saying it was a good judgement call, but legally the cop could easily walk away from this with a reprimand if Fairfax County policy is similar.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: March 07, 2006 10:05AM

Fairfax MF-er Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But taking into consideration what the
> officer knew at the time - skipped out on bill,
> possibly drunk, using vehicle to ram an officer -
> the cop must have felt justified in using deadly
> force to protect himself and possibly other people
> on the road.

Your point is well taken and it speaks to a LOT we don't know concerning what happened inside the restaurant. For example, we don't even know that the bill wasn't paid. And if the guys were somehow being obnoxious, wouldn't the officer/security guy have had his eye on them anyway and possibly escorted them out of the establishment? Imagine if you were with a group of friends, had just gotten the bill, combined cash and left it on the table, and left? And an employee of the IHOP only saw you and your buddies leave while not stopping at the register and told the officer to chase you? Then shots are fired, the restaurant occupants go running, and a number of convenient stacks of cash are sitting on a couple of tables? Do you think that may be a little tempting, maybe someone would take the money you used to pay the bill?

During the interview with the vehicle occupants I saw, they declined to discuss anything that happened in the restaurant, which tells me a lawyer told them to clam up on that. So it may be that they did indeed dine-n-dash but I don't think as of this writing any of them have been charged with that, which could easily be evidenced by video surveillance in the restaurant.

And we also don't know, and possibly will never know, the truth about where the vehicle was when the officer was where he says he was. It isn't logical to conclude that if the officer suddenly entered the scene that this translates to the intent of the driver to run the officer over just because the vehicle was already heading in his direction. It may have taken a second to realize the officer had just appeared, which may have been the same second the officer decided to open fire.

This will all hinge on eyewitness accounts and what the ballistics say about when and from where the bullets were fired.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: March 07, 2006 10:20AM

what i really think happened was that he was terrified of kittens and was trying to shoot this one that was on the dashboard.
file.php?40,file=27


shooting kittens? now that's just fucked up.  :P


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Fairfax MF-er ()
Date: March 07, 2006 02:13PM

pgens-

Your crazy, unsubstantiated theories aside, you do bring up a good point. There should be video. If the cop has his gun drawn inside the restaurant or while leaving the restaurant, that could make the case for negligent homicide, since a "Dine and Dash" hardly justifies using pre-meditated deadly force.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: JT ()
Date: March 07, 2006 04:34PM

Fairfax Mfer - to answer your earlier question about deadly force with the guy who would shoot at a cop and then run away with the gun in his hand, Accodording to Tennesee V Garner a police officer has the right to shoot a fleeing felon if he/she believes that the person still poses a threat to the officer or other citizens...not sure if that applies in this case, but i would define accelerating your vehicle at a uniformed police officer as at the very least being attempted malicious wounding (which is a felony in VA).

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Fairfax MF-er ()
Date: March 07, 2006 05:02PM

Thanks, JT. That was kind of what I was driving at. A deadly weapon is a deadly weapon. I would imagine the same rules apply to all of them. Once the kid tried to run the guy down, he became a threat.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: shocker.. ()
Date: March 07, 2006 06:12PM

not taking any side here, both pose decent arguments thusfar. But lets look at the past and decide if this officer is a "murderer" like many of you have called him. I have no idea who this guy is or anything about his past(other than he's a coach at some school aswell) but I think if he had any previous disiplines with the department it would have already come out. Cops have their guns out ALL THE TIME, much more than then you guys would think. In this guys 13 years as a LEO, has he ever shot his service weapon? I have no idea, but it would be one more factor to look at here. Has he been in similar instances and choose not to fire? What type of trianing has he most recently received relating to deadly force situations? Some officers(usually not regular patrol officers) use a method of approach called the "take down method" when approaching vehicles. This is down with your weapon drawn and pointed at the driver, mostly used in tactical situations that have some type of pre-determined plan. I believe that I read that this method was used in the shooting over the holidays in the middle of Tysons corner involving Ffx Co police.

In short conclusion, was this cop just some "overworked, tried cop who hated kids and was bitter" or was he "a coach of children/enforcer of the law who has had his gun drawn 100's of times in his career and for the first time felt that a life was in danger"(forget your physics arguements, most times if you're a driver of a vehicle and you're looking to run over something and it starts shooting at you, you might head in another direction)


my two cents...

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: WashingToneLoc-ian ()
Date: March 07, 2006 07:28PM

shocker...

Finally a voice of reason. I'm glad to see there are at least a few other people on this board that want to weigh the evidence before declaring an officer of the law who has spent 13 years protecting all of your sorry asses "a murderer."

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Jim ()
Date: March 07, 2006 08:21PM

WashingToneLoc-ian,

Oh there are plenty of us here but, since its difficult to rationalize with irrational people, we usually just read this board and shake our heads in disbelief rather than reply to their hateful drivel.

Many of them have an axe to grind with the law because they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar before. Many of them feel people should be able to do whatever they wish until it affects them personally. Then they feel it's OK for the police to enforce the law.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: March 08, 2006 07:02AM

Very few posts called the officer a murderer, let's be accurate. Most of the posts here are asking about what happened, make comments on training, and present arguments as to what reasonable behavior should be. As I have said before training and policies need to be examined, and if an officer violates policy and training and it results in a death then he needs to, at best, be removed from citizen-facing duties.

Yeah, if you want a laugh search on posts by author and plug Jim in for all dates. Most of the posts are "you got busted because you are stupid" and "you deserve what you got". I think Jim took the "I'm a Cop" award away from Tina! So it's not surprising to see him post that any questioning of police action by citizens, including the death of an alleged dine-and-dasher, is "irrational." Here Jim, go read this http://wjz.com/topstories/local_story_016131148.html and then post back about how all cops are trustworthy, the woman deserved it, state legistlatures approved all the equipment, and "It really is no wonder that so many of you have so much trouble with the law" (Jim, 8/18/05).

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Genevieve ()
Date: March 08, 2006 10:36AM

I agree with pgens. This thread is really discussing the information we have been given and trying to make sense of it.

I have no "axe to grind with the law." You won't find my name on the arrest/ticket search. I do not have anything against the police in general.

I believe that those who are complaining about the police simply want to see police efforts concentrated on things like gang activity, domestic violence, robbery/murder investigations and other very serious crimes. True, some of them probably just want certain drugs decriminalized. But I guess they'll have to move to Canada.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: PaperPusher ()
Date: March 08, 2006 01:36PM

Just as I suspected, the horrendous shooting of a kid is slipping into the gray area of legaleze. I have no ax to grind with anyone so no need to attempt to categorize me or anyone else here. It is apparent that nothing can bring back the kid. It is also apparent that the kid should not have died, meaning the cop should not have shot him. If the intent was to stop the vehicle, shooting tires would have sufficed. If the intent was to shoot people then shooting into the vehicle was obviously sufficient. I see this cop as being very much like the fine upstanding, church-going father who was caught with his pants down screwing a prostitute or a priest busted for screwing the choir boys. He did something wrong that deserves punishment regardless of his "pristine" past.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: March 08, 2006 04:48PM

JT,
  i would like to point out that Tennessee is part of the south. i would like to think that we can be a little more civilized here in NOVA. before you say it, Northern Virginia was not really part of the south as they didnt want to be and a bunch of people ran off to West Virginia. if you still say we are part of the south, take a good look at the difference in behavior between NOVA and anywhere south of here. whether or not that applies here is still unknown but still, shooting at a fleeing car that is no longer coming at you is just fucked up.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: bizkit ()
Date: March 08, 2006 07:22PM

I have to disagree with Gravis and Paperpusher on this one. I can't liken the cop's actions to priests in sex scandals because they aren't put into a situation where they have to react quickly. They plan what they do and they know it's wrong. I'm not going to take the other vehicle occupants' word at face value because teenagers notoriously bend the truth to suit their needs.

Based on everything that's been in the news, I conclude that police are expected to act responsibly and react appropriately to the level of the crime and the threat. Police are not supposed to create situations where they "fear for their life" by jumping in front of a moving vehicle and then firing when the driver disobeys their lawful command to stop. Police are expected to have enough sense and restraint to not wind up shooting people over the old dine-and-dash. While the kids shouldn't have skipped their bill and they should have stopped when the officer tried to stop them, we wind up with a tragedy over a silly prankish violation. It sucks to be the officer involved, but that is the standard that police officers are held to.

On a side note, I have to disagree with the editorial in today's Post about the shooting of the gambling suspect by Fairfax County Police. While the police have acknowledged that the shooting was accidental and the victim did nothing to instigate it, I disagree that the use of SWAT team tactics caused the accident. If I am going to be arrested, I'd rather have an officer that trains in using firearms constantly arresting me than some street cop that re-qualifies twice a year which may be the only times he actually handles the gun. That's the smart call for people playing the odds, but in this case one of the highly trained SWAT officers made a mistake. It's hard to argue with the end result, but I'd still argue that this kind of accident is less likely when SWAT teams are used than when regular patrol cops are used.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: March 09, 2006 01:06PM

Another tidbit from the vehicle occupant perspective... who knows if it is true or not. Only two shots went into the front, and an offier with some degree of training should be able to hit a Jeep from 30 feet and the impression I get from the account is that a number of shots would have been fired at the front. I guess it is possible to miss a vehicle at that distance.

http://wusa9.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=47317


"However, two others who also were inside the Jeep and in the line of fire have sharply disputed the claims of Officer Carl Stowe who told police the Jeep was coming at him, and he fired at it, fearing for his life.

On Tuesday, Aaron Daughtrey and Breklyn Paulitzky said Stowe opened fire when the Jeep was still looping around the far end of the iHOP parking lot, and then jumped in front of the vehicle still shooting at it. They said Steve Smith swerved into a parked vehicle to avoid striking the officer"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2006 01:07PM by pgens.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: PaperPusher ()
Date: March 09, 2006 01:13PM

I'm done. no more comments on this subject from me. A kid's dead and I'm glad it's not my kid.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: March 09, 2006 01:19PM

agreed, i would just like to hear what happens in the investigation into this. is there anything official to report?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: March 09, 2006 02:51PM

A police spokesman at some Alexandria board meeting said the alexandria investigation would take two weeks, don't know how long the FBI will take.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: March 12, 2006 10:50AM


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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Firrat ()
Date: March 12, 2006 09:17PM

Are you serious? I thought it was really hard to get into FFX police department, yet we have officers jump infront of cars and start shooting at it? Maybe exceptable if we were in hollywood, but i am sure even cops in hollywood wouldnt jump infront of a moving car and have the nerve to shoot at it.....

Why do we have license plate No's? Seriously I was just reading how hard it is to be a Fairfax county Police officer.....yet his judgement and actions were very poor.

License plate MR officer License plate!!!

and there would be no deaths :(

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: March 12, 2006 10:12PM

the cop who shot the kid was not a fucking FCPD officer, you fucking moron. fcpd only shoots gamblers.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: P2dak ()
Date: March 15, 2006 11:05AM

A cop stood in front of a moving car, and then feared for his life?! what the F*** is that. even if he shot into the car it would have kept moving. and y shoot at the driver and people inside the car? why not shoot out the tires. thats the first thing i would have done, but then again i am not a dumbass fairfax county police officer.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: March 15, 2006 11:48AM

Shooting at the tires probably wouldn't do anything... it certainly wouldn't stop it in time from hitting the officer if he was that close. But yeah, if the offier had time to fire two shots into the front and a couple into the side while the vehicle was passing him then he probably had time to do the smart thing and get out of the way. Or maybe not get in the way in the first place. Hopefully we'll hear results of investigations soon... the event happened two weeks ago yesterday.

Contrast this with what happened yesterday on the GW Parkway ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/14/AR2006031401641.html ). In this case a taxi driver was stopped and an officer approached the vehicle. The driver threw the car into reverse in his direction, after which the officer fired into the vehicle. This one on the face of it appears to be justified, especially since the taxi had already escaped one checkpoint while his driver's license was being checked.

Maybe some officers are confusing this country with Iraq... easy to do with all the media coverage I guess. That's the only relating event I can think of that seems to have made it okay in all cases now to just shoot at a vehicle if it isn't stopping when you want it to. Some cases call for it... the GW Parkway case seems to have while the dine-and-dash case does not. At least the GW parkway officer didn't appear to have put himself in obvious danger as the vehicle was stopped. Entering the path of a moving vehicle and opening fire is a bit different. In that case one has either broken the rules or hasn't been trained properly... either way definately not fit for citizen-facing duties.

Yeah, check out this quote from the article about the fleeing cab driver:

"Butt said the driver returned to the company last week after being gone for several months. He signed papers to rent a cab and was due back in the office Friday to pay his fees."

Wonder where he went?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2006 11:56AM by pgens.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: March 17, 2006 12:56PM

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=63065&paper=67&cat=104

Funny mistake... check out the sidebar, particularly the caption under the photo. "Workers stand outside the Flagstaff Plaza Exxon station the afternoon after a hostage took an employee hostage." Man, now the hostages get PISSED!

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: trekroner ()
Date: March 17, 2006 01:24PM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> ticle=63065&paper=67&cat=104
>
> Funny mistake... check out the sidebar,
> particularly the caption under the photo.
> "Workers stand outside the Flagstaff Plaza Exxon
> station the afternoon after a hostage took an
> employee hostage." Man, now the hostages get
> PISSED!


This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions. Hostages taking employees hostage... dogs and cats living together... MASS HYSTERIA!!
:)

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: March 31, 2006 11:15AM

I have emailed a couple of newspapers asking for updates on this story... I think an update from the police on the investigations into this incident are overdue. HAs anyone seen anything lately on this?

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: forum member #593983498 ()
Date: March 31, 2006 04:21PM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have emailed a couple of newspapers asking for
> updates on this story... I think an update from
> the police on the investigations into this
> incident are overdue. HAs anyone seen anything
> lately on this?

No not at all

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: raz ()
Date: April 17, 2006 10:43PM

And do I know you Reston Peace? If you were there and had a fuckin problem with me then you should have stood up like a man and said something. You always have a chance again.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: April 17, 2006 10:47PM

What the fuck are you talking about?

Seriously, this thread is weeks old and nobody has posted in it for a while, so of course I don't have any idea what I said that got you so riled.

But you sure are an easy little bitch to rile.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: raz ()
Date: April 17, 2006 11:19PM

I know it's weeks old but no one knows anything about who the kids were or who Aaron Brown was. He was one of the most caring talented people. Everyone in the jeep were normal kids who liked to have fun. And if you weren't there at that party then you don't know anything about me. And I know it's weeks old but what the fuck are you looking at it for then? And so what if it's old because people should not forget that incident.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: April 17, 2006 11:29PM

I knew you were my bitch, raz, but you just proved it.

Now get on your knees and take what I give you, my little bitch.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 17, 2006 11:29PM

umm... it would appear he is pissed off about a off-color comment from a month an a half ago... it's on the fucking first page!


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Holden McCrank ()
Date: April 18, 2006 08:36AM

I was wondering if these trigger happy cops wouldn't mind terribly coming down to Prince William county? I've got a bunch of annoying teenagers running around in my neighborhood. If you chaps wouldn't mind popping down here and popping some caps in their asses I'd appreciate it awfully. K THX bye.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: J ()
Date: April 18, 2006 07:24PM

I love how people like to play Monday morning quarterback. Try making a split second decision for once in your pathetic lives.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 18, 2006 10:26PM

Monday morning quarterback? what the fuck does that mean?!


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: April 18, 2006 10:50PM

I believe he is attempting to draw a metaphor between 2 set of people makiing decisions in the heat of intense situations.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 18, 2006 11:04PM

i get that he was trying to make a failed attempt at a metaphor, but what the fuck is a "Monday morning quarterback"? i mean, why monday morning and who is he implying is quarterback? i mean, this is like something they would ask you to interpret on a psych test.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: April 19, 2006 11:13AM

J Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love how people like to play Monday morning
> quarterback. Try making a split second decision
> for once in your pathetic lives.

Police receive training in these areas and departments have policies. I don't think that reasonable people, with training or not, would make a split-second decision to jump into the path of an oncomming vehicle.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: April 19, 2006 09:16PM

An update... from http://www.nbc4.com/news/8703066/detail.html:

Va. Official Working To Complete IHOP Shooting Investigation
Commonwealth Attorney: It Could Take Two Months Or More

POSTED: 4:48 pm EDT April 14, 2006
UPDATED: 5:50 pm EDT April 14, 2006

ALEXANDRIA, Va. -- The commonwealth's attorney in Alexandria, Va., announced that he believes it will be another two to three more months before he completes his investigation into the shooting death of Aaron Brown.

Brown is the teen who was shot by an off-duty police officer last February after he and his friends left an IHOP restaurant without paying the check.

Commonwealth attorney Randolph Sengel said he has received the police files on the shooting, but has more work to do before he decides whether to bring criminal charges against the officer.

Meantime, Brown's family is urging Sengel to make the police files public to show that the investigation is being conducted in an independent way.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: June 12, 2006 01:55PM

Latest... driver pleads guilty to possession. STILL nothing on whether the shooter will face charges or disciplinary action of some kind. Note there was no mention of pleading guilty to any dine and dash charges.



ALEXANDRIA, Va. -- Steven Smith was behind the wheel of an SUV the day 18-year-old Aaron Brown was shot and killed by an off-duty Alexandria police officer.

Smith, 19, appeared in court on Monday and pleaded guilty to reduced charges of possession of marijuana and underage possession of alcohol.

His driver's license was suspended and he must complete 50 hours of community service.

Smith and Brown were in a Jeep Grand Cherokee in an Alexandria IHOP parking lot in February when officer Carl Stowe tried to stop them for allegedly not paying their bill.

Stowe, who was working part-time as a security guard at the restaurant, fired at the car because he claimed Smith was trying to run him over. Brown died in the incident.

Alexandria Commonwealth Attorney Randy Sengel has been reviewing the case and has yet to decide if Officer Stowe will face any charges.

(Copyright 2006 by WTOP. All Rights Reserved.)

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: June 12, 2006 02:02PM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Latest... driver pleads guilty to possession.


i would like to point out to all those idiots that the driver was not charged with DWI (drugs or alchol) so you can shut the fuck up about being impaired.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: June 12, 2006 02:09PM

Good point... it was possession and not impairment.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: fd ()
Date: June 12, 2006 03:57PM

key word "plead" to possession.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: my 2 cents ()
Date: June 12, 2006 11:04PM

You people keep missing the point. You talk & talk about the police officer jumping in front of the car, then shooting at it. It was reported that these kids did not pay for their meal. Ok, I know, henious crime. But still a crime. It is his duty to try to stop them. Once he steps out and gives them a lawful order to stop. It is their duty to stop. As soon as they go faster and towards him he has the right to defend himself. You can second guess him all day long, but until you are doing his job and saw what he saw you have no place to bad mouth the officer. When it come to police work non of you have a clue. You base you knowldge of police on watching cops on TV and bitching about the officers who pull you over. And from listning to most of you on here, if I was a police officer who pulled you over I would most likely have a bad attitude too. As far as this post goes, don't you think that you have beat this dead horse enough.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: June 12, 2006 11:53PM

bla bla bla until you're in his place you don't know bla bla bla


shut the fuck up. Nobody cares about your two cents. Must be two cents canadian.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: M ()
Date: June 13, 2006 12:30AM

my 2 cents Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You people keep missing the point. You talk & talk
> about the police officer jumping in front of the
> car, then shooting at it. It was reported that
> these kids did not pay for their meal. And from listning
> to most of you on here, if I was a police officer
> who pulled you over I would most likely have a bad
> attitude too.

The kids were High and they paid the bill and walked out the just did not sit around asking for the total and bla bla bl.

That is the problem cops are to quick to react and over react.

How would a cop know you post on FFUG.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Dork ()
Date: June 13, 2006 05:57AM

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm going to have to defend the cop here.
>
> Diner food is too good to be stolen and is worth
> risking lives over. Plus, youths need to witness
> their friends being summarily executed, in order
> to grow as people.
>
> In addition, people should know to stop whenever
> any individual jumps in front of their car with a
> gun suddenly with no warning, in order to enforce
> discipline, that they should immediately stop,
> open the doors, and relinquish the vehicle to
> whomever it is that has the gun pointed at them,
> even if it's an MS-13 covered person. That may be
> an undercover cop trying to stop you from stealing
> fine foods and services.
>
> Plus, it's a safe bet the youth in question was
> either stoned or on his way to sell drugs to other
> youths, as youths often do in this
> bullet-in-the-head, make-it-or-die county we live
> in. We need to end this cycle of violence and
> drug dealing, through simple violence.


I knew the guy who got shot so what you've just said there is pretty despicable.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: June 13, 2006 06:00AM

Until someone can convince me that self defense was served firing into the _side_ of a vehicle, let alone demonstrate how firing at a driver in a moving vehicle at all in a parking lot won't end up in disaster, I will continue to demand action. Someone point me to the page of the FCPD training manual where it says jumping in front of a moving vehicle is proper. Add to this post all the other points made in the thread.

Duty to stop them is taking down a tag number and sending buddies over to mom and dad's house.

I'm baffled why this can't be kicked over to a jury. McKinney, Kennedy, police officers... there's clearly a class of people who are simply not subject to laws that would land the rest of us in jail for hard time... punching federal officers at checkpoints, DUI, shooting and killing vehicle passengers. If you think these people are so innocent then there's nothing to lose letting a jury decide that.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: June 13, 2006 06:04AM

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Must be two cents canadian.

The poster felt so strongly that he/she should come to the defense of unreasonable police action under the umbrella excuse of "it's a hard job" that he/she did it while hiding. Real cool. I guess byu that argument though because postal workers are stressed, or any of us are stressed, that people who shoot up an office and kill people should be given the same benefit of the doubt. The county district attorney can get up in front of the mic and say "please people... these people, as their police officer comrades, have hard jobs. Just let it go."

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: June 13, 2006 09:49AM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm baffled why this can't be kicked over to a
> jury. McKinney, Kennedy, police officers...
> there's clearly a class of people who are simply
> not subject to laws that would land the rest of us
> in jail for hard time...


exactly


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: June 13, 2006 12:21PM

Oh well, I guess that's it.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=818803

ALEXANDRIA, Va. - No charges will be filed against the off-duty officer who shot and killed a teen outside an Alexandria International House of Pancakes in February.

Officer Carl Stowe claimed he fired at the vehicle because the driver, 19-year-old Steven Smith, was trying to run him over. Aaron Brown, who was riding in the back seat of the Jeep Grand Cherokee, was killed by one of the shots.

Alexandria Commonwealth's Attorney Randy Sengel says that Stowe acted reasonably when he shot Brown. According to Sengel, evidence shows the shot that killed Brown was fired as the vehicle was passing Stowe, but the officer had started shooting as it accelerated toward him.

Sengal went on to say that in the amount of time it takes for a human to react, Stowe could not reasonably have been expected to stop firing before he fired the fatal shot. The prosecutor concluded that while the shooting is tragic, he will not file charges against the officer.

Stowe was working part-time as a security guard at the Duke Street restaurant. He attempted to stop Smith and Brown in the parking lot, for allegedly not paying their bill.

Brown's father tells WTOP he's speaking with the family's attorney, and will release a statement.

Smith appeared in court on Monday and pleaded guilty to reduced charges of possession of marijuana and underage possession of alcohol.

(Copyright 2006 by WTOP. All Rights Reserved.)

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: fd ()
Date: June 13, 2006 12:26PM

pgens
again this was alexandria pd not fcpd

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: June 13, 2006 12:42PM

If you were refering to the post about training in your unquoted reply, then yes I can now see the inconsistency in the postings and you have my apologies.

edit: WTOP posted a PDF of the prosecutor's report so I'll stop further comments until I have read it.

edit again: the report paints two pictures. One is the accounts of witnesses, and the other is the account of forensics. My overall impression is that forensics, coupled with an expert on stressful reaction times, makes it plausible that the officer could not possible stop shooting by the time he was out of danger. That answers how a bullet could have entered the side of the vehicle.

The report mentions but in final conclusions dismisses a couple of reports from passengers within the vehicle whose accounts did not change from that night to followup interviews, and discounts ballistic testing that gave minumum distances from the firearm to the jeep of 26, 9, 19, and 33 feet away as shots were fired. The report says the officer was probably closer to the jeep if he was lower to the ground, but the report also has the officer running back and forth to dodge the vehicle so it didn't sound like he was really in a crouched stance.

The report says an officer can use necessary force to stop deadly force but still did not answer why the officer stood in parking lots not only in this instance but in others as well, as a method of stopping dashers, by his own account because it had "worked in the past". The question of can one use deadly force after placing oneself in a position to be killed was not addressed. That was one of the many reasons I have noted in this thread that a grand jury should be involved but the commonweath's attorney chose not to do so and notes this in the report with the only explanation being along the lines of "it would not help in this case" and not really further elaborated.

That's a wrap... Brown's family is supposedly releasing a statement later and we'll see what they have to say.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2006 01:45PM by pgens.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: June 13, 2006 05:06PM

no charges? that's fucked up.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: OMG OWNED ()
Date: June 13, 2006 09:05PM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
If you think these people are so
> innocent then there's nothing to lose letting a
> jury decide that.




Ouch , a dose of their own medicine. "If you are innocent then you can tell that to the judge"

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Dirty harry ()
Date: June 13, 2006 09:20PM

Does anyone have the officers name ? I would like to thank him for wacking the punk and suggest he should have fired all 15 rounds and reloaded.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: June 13, 2006 11:05PM

The "punk" he wacked was a college student and an Eagle Scout.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: June 13, 2006 11:07PM

obviously he was smoking dope and drinking heavily also, otheriwse, why would he have been hanging out with dangerous gangsters that the police had orders to "shoot on sight"?

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: June 13, 2006 11:25PM

PH2006022800011.jpg

I mean look at this guy.... how could the cop NOT shoot? Everyone knows AC/DC leads to heavy drug use, disobediance, and group chanting. A person with hair that long is a threat to our very foundations. What would the founding fathers have thought of a male with such effeminate hair?

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: June 14, 2006 10:33AM

Nothing threatens our foundations like Dell support, which even the founding fathers knew sucks.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: June 14, 2006 12:28PM

not sure what you mean by that, pgens. What the fuck does dell have to do with anything?

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: June 14, 2006 12:38PM

Just about as much as having long hair and being an AC/DC fan means you should be immediately shot if you partake in a dine and dash.

See, now on Fox news they are reporting that police are looking for a guy who stole $1500 worth of deoderant from a Rite Aid. That certainly deserves more Glock 23 rounds than the long-haired AC/DC fan who was an Eagle Scout.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2006 12:39PM by pgens.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: June 14, 2006 12:49PM

you know my ac/dc comment was a joke? I know lots of guys who look like him who are far better men than any dressed-up corporate schill. And most cops I've known were just self-ego-assauging morons.

But I still don't get the Dell comment, was that a jab at my job? I don't work for Dell Support, those guys are in india and the philippines and shit.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: June 14, 2006 02:18PM

I know all that... I was answering your joke with a joke. I have talked to enough Dell people in India to know you aren't in India.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: June 14, 2006 02:23PM

I'm pretty slow today dude

And Sam, Jane, Mike, Steve, and Rachael, and heck all of the rest of the guys at Dell Tech Support India say "hi".

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: June 14, 2006 04:15PM

lol I love the names I get when I contact phone support.

That said I had a very good chat-based support incident Monday and was about the smoothest support experience I have ever had. My experience with Dell is that home-related, non-PC related stuff (like if you buy an MP3 player or something) or have a consumer billing issue, be prepared for a lot of work and support phone call transfers because no one seems to know who handles what based on the manner in which you bought it. The PC-related stuff has been mostly easy, but certainly easiest when you know something yourself about troubleshooting and can give a clear description of the problem with a reasonable conclusion of what the problem compoenent is.

On another amusing note I see the Head Shops thread with half as many posts has many more views than this one.

Now, back to Officer Stowe...

Am I the only one that read the entire report? Any other reactions to it?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2006 04:21PM by pgens.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: ffxn8v ()
Date: June 14, 2006 05:25PM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Now, back to Officer Stowe...
>
> Am I the only one that read the entire report?
> Any other reactions to it?



o.k., it should be discussed from ths point on, in Alexandria Underground. It was not a Fairfax County incident ;-)

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: June 14, 2006 05:50PM

I did not agree with the findings and I read the report. If the driver of the jeep was really trying to run the officer over why wasnt he charged with that offense rather than a couple of non violent misdemeanors.

Secondly the officer put himself in front of the moving vehicle yet it doesnt appear any blame was assigned to the officer for doing so.

Third, to shoot at the vehicle he had to first step into the roadway, second assume a position to fire, third draw his weapon and then aim and fire. This takes more than a couple of seconds.

Fourth from reading the report the officer appears to have knowledge that the only offense was maybe running out on the bill.

Lastly, am I the only one bothered by the fact that the fatal shot came from the side of the vehicle and two more were fired into the back of the jeep?

I kind of hope the family will not settle out of court on a civil lawsuit, that way maybe more facts can be learned than what we are being given now.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: June 14, 2006 06:31PM

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did not agree with the findings and I read the
> report. If the driver of the jeep was really
> trying to run the officer over why wasnt he
> charged with that offense rather than a couple of
> non violent misdemeanors.


that is a very excellent point. shouldnt he have been charged with attempted murder? wait, no, it was a complete lie.


> Lastly, am I the only one bothered by the fact
> that the fatal shot came from the side of the
> vehicle and two more were fired into the back of
> the jeep?


i wish the press would expose this shit. it would seem those who own the press rather be paid off than report problems with the police.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: June 14, 2006 07:18PM

One last thing and I will shut up. It should be remembered that Aaron Brown was not the driver of the vehicle. He wasnt even in the front seat area, he was in the back.

If the officer fired five shots suppose every one of the bullets found a different target. Five occupants in the vehicle and five dead people. If you think that couldnt have happened think again.

Everyone, police officer or citizen, is responsible when they fire a gun to be held accountable for results of each of those bullets.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Dirty harry ()
Date: June 14, 2006 10:43PM

The punk was A creep,just like a few of you. I wish for the day when I'm in that officers place.ONE LESS LONG HAIRED FAG.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Hawaii ()
Date: June 16, 2006 08:42PM

I was extremely surprised that the investigation has been dropped just like that. It seems like there's enough variables involved in this situation to look deeper and figure out just what happened. I'm not one of these guys that enjoys ragging on police officers all the time, but when one overreacts and makes a mistake (which has happened several times this year), it should be addressed. Especially in a case where someone's life was taken, like this one.

With that said, I do commend Fairfax County police for being (somewhat) open with the Culosi shooting (the gambler in FC). They could've made up some bogus story instead of saying it was a mistake on their part. I'm not excusing them, but it could've been a big coverup if they chose so.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: June 16, 2006 08:55PM

Hawaii Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was extremely surprised that the investigation
> has been dropped just like that.

The investigation wasn't dropped. It was concluded. It was determined the cop didn't do anything wrong. Not sure what the problem is here.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Hawaii ()
Date: June 16, 2006 10:30PM

I probably used the word "dropped" because I truly thought a different outcome would come out of it, and it feels "dropped" in my opinion. To have the officer get off scot-free doesn't feel right in this situation. Seems to me like he overreacted to the nth degree.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: aggie ()
Date: June 16, 2006 11:40PM

Yeah, Kenneddy--- there was NO Reason to kill him.

Maybe we should have let him go play in one of the highschools, as he intended to shoot up some dumb shits ;)
At least he went to the PD where they could fight back.


Cullossi-- incident sucks, but he was a criminal to start, and wouldn't have been in that boat if he wans't a drug pushing, gambler.

The IHOP kid wans't FCPD, so umm yeah, they can't be blamed.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: June 16, 2006 11:41PM

He isn't off the hook yet... the report covered the investigation of whether a crime had been committed. The prosecutor, for the reasons he cited in his report, did not send the issue to a grand jury.

However Stowe could still face discipline for violating police procedures or policies if the Alexandria police department decides he violated any.

I would also expect a civil suit from the family. Or perhaps the family could petition the Feds to investigate civil rights violations.

I'm not saying all that is appropriate or not, but those things are still possible and the fallout from the incident will continue.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: KeepOnTruckin ()
Date: June 30, 2006 05:39PM

I love how Dell techs say some American name and then you cannot understand them and they are obviously Indian. Speaking of which:

Subject: Immigration
How to pass an immigration test in America...
Mujibar was trying to get into the U.S. legally through Immigration.
The Officer said, "Mujibar, you have passed all of these tests, except there is one more test. Unless you pass it you cannot enter the United States."
Mujibar said, "Yees, Sir, Meester Officer, I am reedy."
The officer said, "Make a sentence using the words Yellow, Pink and Green."
Mujibar thought for a few minutes and said, "Yees, Sir, Meester Officer, I am reedy."
The Officer said, "Go ahead."
Mujibar said, "The telephone goes green, green, green, and I pink it up, and say, 'Yellow, this is Mujibar.'"
Mujibar now lives in a neighborhood near you, and works at a Dell help desk.

___

It looks like a diagram would be useful in understanding how the whole shooting worked. But I am too lazy to draw one, so I will jsut lay it out from what I understand, which may or may not be correct:

1. 2 guys got into car, warmed it up, brought it to entrance. Meanwhile cop is informed of crime.

2. Other 2 guys got into car, ran to it. Cop out entrance approx. same time as car door closed.

3. Car begins to drive toward corner. Cop runs parallel to car, into road after the corner.

4.Someone in car sees cop, says go faster. Car goes faster around corner, cop in middle of road.

5. Car around corner. Cop draws gun.

6. Car closer to cop. Cop fires twice at car. Car close to cop, swerves around.

7. Car next to cop. Cop continues firing, "unable" to stop firing. Bullet hits kid.

8. Car nearly past cop. Cop still "unable" to stop firing, fires last shot at car, hits rear quarter panel.

9. Car drives off.


The Jeep could not possibly have accellerated to the speed at which a car goes by fast enough to be able to fire at it from a distance, and also the side and rear of it, without stopping. I'd say it takes a jeep 12 seconds to get to 80 which is about the speed at which I could pull a trigger four times and still hit a moving target, without being able to stop myself.

Anyone think a Jeep went 80 around a 90-degree turn in a PARKING LOT!

Yes I have fired many types of guns so I have a small shred of credibility.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: 33sprincess ()
Date: July 19, 2006 04:38PM

You have to be kidding me!

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: July 19, 2006 07:06PM

I dunno, what he says makes sense to me but I am pretty stoned

but that dell joke is old and busted.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: dontdissihopcop ()
Date: August 12, 2006 09:39PM

Let's be honest kids, those kids deserved to be fired upon. They tried to kill a guy. Now get over it!!!!!!!!

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: dirty harry loves cops! ()
Date: August 13, 2006 11:46PM

Yep,But the officer should have to spend more time at the range practicing,he only hit one scumbag out of four.He should have killed all 4!

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: The Economist22 ()
Date: August 14, 2006 01:33PM

hopefully the same thing will happen to one of your friends..

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: August 14, 2006 06:29PM

Hell with the friends, shoot the trollers.

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: September 15, 2006 08:46AM

WTOP had a followup article... nothing much new other than the new police chief will take over their internal investigation.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=913662

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Re: Another teen killed by cops
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: September 15, 2006 02:13PM

shocking, no fault at all by the cops. maybe if i jump in front of a car with suspected criminals, i can blow away some passengers.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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