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105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Jeb ()
Date: May 15, 2013 06:50AM

105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy in Loudoun (Photos)
http://www.wtop.com/159/3322329/105-year-old-Confederate-statue-stirs-controversy-in-Loudoun-Photos

LEESBURG, Va. - A statue of a Confederate soldier that has stood in front of the historic courthouse in Loudoun County since 1908 is now being called inappropriate and a local lawyer says it should be removed.

The statue was erected to honor the war dead at a time when many Civil war veterans were still alive.

The statue shows a Confederate soldier standing guard with his rifle ready.

An inscription, carved into the stone monument, says, "In memory of the Confederate Soldiers of Loudoun County, Va. Erected May 28, 1908."

But Loudoun County, deeply divided over the war in 1861, may not have healed old wounds.

Attorney John Flannery, who often has cases in the courthouse, wants the statue moved elsewhere. He says it's intimidating to some of his clients.

"It deters people. It chills them from believing they can get a fair shake in court," he says.

Flannery says he's actually had clients who are afraid they won't get justice in a courthouse after seeing the statue.

"It's a living, active courthouse, which already has challenges in terms of discrimination in terms of persons of color, and not only them."

But he will get an argument from many local folks. Local historian Gene Scheel says the statue is not a symbol, it's history.

"In 1908, a statue like this was considered to be an honor, that's history."

He says intact remnants of the past are good teaching tools.

"Practically every county that I've been to in Virginia has its Confederate memorial or monument," says Scheel, noting that Richmond has a whole row of them.

On the North King Street in front of the Loudoun Courthouse, there was mixed opinion about the statue.

"I am actually from the North and was a little bit surprised by it when I moved down here," says Annie Carlson. But adds that she can understand why that statue is there.

But Richard Gallagher, who was actually once a client of Flannery's, says he's surprised by the idea of moving the statue.

"I think its crazy. It's part of our history," he says.

Flannery thinks the statue should be at a museum or a cemetery, not the courthouse. He hasn't decided yet how to move forward with his request for moving the statue, and he says he does expect opposition.

A statue of a Confederate soldier sits outside the Loudoun County Courthouse, but some find the statue intimidating and want it moved. (WTOP/Hank Silverbeg)
Attachments:
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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Priapus ()
Date: May 15, 2013 07:06AM

They should add statues of American Indians and VietNam vets and call it "Loser's Corner'

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Two Cents ()
Date: May 15, 2013 07:31AM

Priapus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They should add statues of American Indians and
> VietNam vets and call it "Loser's Corner'

OUCH! LOL

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: newgatedenizen ()
Date: May 15, 2013 07:37AM

Just another New Yorker who loved NY so much that he moved south and now wants to turn Virginia into the state he loved so much he left it?

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: leave if you dont like it ()
Date: May 15, 2013 07:37AM

There is one right in the middle of Washington Street in Alexandria. The liberals whine and cry that it offends everyone in the world. But guess what, the city cannot touch it only the state may authorize its removal. That will never happen.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Liberal lawyer ()
Date: May 15, 2013 07:44AM

Since Washington and Jefferson owned slaves I expect all references to them to be erased from streets, cities and states.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: History Nut ()
Date: May 15, 2013 08:37AM

"the statue was erected to honor the war dead at a
time when many Civil war veterans were still
alive."

This is irrelevant, whether they were dead or alive, they still were and are a part of American history no matter whose side they were on.
Attachments:
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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Jess1 ()
Date: May 15, 2013 08:56AM

"Just another New Yorker who loved NY so much that he moved south and now wants to turn Virginia into the state he loved so much he left it?"

Of course. Who'd want to live in the toilet bowl they just took a dump in when there's other people & places to s&it on?

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Nolan I ()
Date: May 15, 2013 09:04AM

Yankee transplant here who's been to traffic court at the Leesburg Courthouse. I don't give a shit about the statue. It's part of history.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: SPEAR CHUCKER PHIL ()
Date: May 15, 2013 09:17AM

They really really need to get over it!

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Uncle Tom ()
Date: May 15, 2013 09:42AM

Why can’t they pull down this statue and put up a statue of someone like Harriet Tubman, Nat Turner, or Frederick Douglass?

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: BrianSchoeneman ()
Date: May 15, 2013 10:08AM

I don't understand the desire to whitewash history. There's nothing inappropriate about this statute. If anything, it's a monument to one of the most colossal mistakes in American history.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: question for Brian Schoeneman ()
Date: May 15, 2013 10:16AM

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't understand the desire to whitewash
> history. There's nothing inappropriate about this
> statute. If anything, it's a monument to one of
> the most colossal mistakes in American history.

Well then Brian, how about supporting a social “balance”. The Confederate statues and landmarks stay, however, new landmarks be developed to remembering those who fought for equal rights in the abolitionist movement? Statues of Harriet Tubman or Frederick Douglas on City or State grounds?

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Roman citizen ()
Date: May 15, 2013 10:16AM

I think a statue of two men kissing would be more PC. Forward.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Fucking shyster ()
Date: May 15, 2013 10:25AM

Attorney John Flannery, who often has cases in the courthouse, wants the statue moved elsewhere. He says it's intimidating to some of his clients.

"It deters people. It chills them from believing they can get a fair shake in court," he says.

Flannery says he's actually had clients who are afraid they won't get justice in a courthouse after seeing the statue.


Fuck him...Just fuck him...

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: RydellRoad ()
Date: May 15, 2013 11:55AM

Kinda sickening how a well-connected lawyer is able to get the media to bite on his concocted "controversy." There's no controversy - move back to New York. How can I get WTOP to run my stories?

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: The Hard Truth ()
Date: May 15, 2013 12:01PM

Dead Confederate Virginians (of which there were many) are still dead Virginians and deserve respect either way. This out-of-towner needs to go.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: GetMath ()
Date: May 15, 2013 12:05PM

Fucking shyster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Attorney John Flannery, who often has cases in the
> courthouse, wants the statue moved elsewhere. He
> says it's intimidating to some of his clients.
>
> "It deters people. It chills them from believing
> they can get a fair shake in court," he says.
>
> Flannery says he's actually had clients who are
> afraid they won't get justice in a courthouse
> after seeing the statue.
>
>
> Fuck him...Just fuck him...

I can see that. If you are going to court for something, thinking you might not get a fair shake. But odds are, if you are going to court, you fucked up doing something you shouldn't have done in the first place. So you put yourself in the position to be "unfairly judged". Secondly, you probably aren't that smart to begin with, if you are being dragged into court.

Of course not all the cases are criminal, but I see no need to reassure a plaintiff/defendant that they will get a fair trial.

Seems to be too much emphasis on a symbol, rather than the bias of the institution. Too many idiots, just don't see the difference. If the statue goes, are they now suddenly going to get a fair trial? If it stays, are they any less likely to get off than before?

I am getting tired of conforming to the lower rung of intelligence in this country. Too many idiots don't see the importance of history. Leave it there, it's a needed reminder of what can happen if you you want secession.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Two Cents ()
Date: May 15, 2013 01:24PM

GetMath Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fucking shyster Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Attorney John Flannery, who often has cases in
> the
> > courthouse, wants the statue moved elsewhere.
> He
> > says it's intimidating to some of his clients.
> >
> > "It deters people. It chills them from
> believing
> > they can get a fair shake in court," he says.
> >
> > Flannery says he's actually had clients who are
> > afraid they won't get justice in a courthouse
> > after seeing the statue.
> >
> >
> > Fuck him...Just fuck him...
>
> I can see that. If you are going to court for
> something, thinking you might not get a fair
> shake. But odds are, if you are going to court,
> you fucked up doing something you shouldn't have
> done in the first place. So you put yourself in
> the position to be "unfairly judged". Secondly,
> you probably aren't that smart to begin with, if
> you are being dragged into court.
>
> Of course not all the cases are criminal, but I
> see no need to reassure a plaintiff/defendant that
> they will get a fair trial.
>
> Seems to be too much emphasis on a symbol, rather
> than the bias of the institution. Too many
> idiots, just don't see the difference. If the
> statue goes, are they now suddenly going to get a
> fair trial? If it stays, are they any less likely
> to get off than before?
>
> I am getting tired of conforming to the lower rung
> of intelligence in this country. Too many idiots
> don't see the importance of history. Leave it
> there, it's a needed reminder of what can happen
> if you you want secession.

Except for infants, whose afraid of a big statue? I thought New Yorkers were supposed to be tougher than that. FAIL! Send that carpet bagger back to the BIG APPLE!

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: SSRA ()
Date: May 15, 2013 01:58PM

Google tells me this Yankee Bluebelly ran unsuccessfully for Commonwealths Attorney
back in 2007. Other hits tell me he's an Obamabot and totally obsessed with
political correctness. Other than that, he has his nose in everybodys business
but his own.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: joe c ()
Date: May 15, 2013 02:16PM

RydellRoad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kinda sickening how a well-connected lawyer is
> able to get the media to bite on his concocted
> "controversy." There's no controversy - move
> back to New York. How can I get WTOP to run my
> stories?

Its free publicity which equals more exposure to potential clients.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: IP Freely ()
Date: May 15, 2013 02:19PM

It is one of the nicest 2nd place trophies I have every seen..

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: RydellRoad ()
Date: May 15, 2013 03:02PM

We are from the north and have ancestors that fought for the North in the CW, but strangely it doesn't seem to bother me in the least to see memorials to honor Confederate soldiers...

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: moses ()
Date: May 15, 2013 03:06PM

I wrote a letter to the leaders in Egypt. Their pyramids offend me as a Jew and what they did to my people thousands of years ago. I may hire this fine barrister to further my cause.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Pharaoh ()
Date: May 15, 2013 03:35PM

moses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wrote a letter to the leaders in Egypt. Their
> pyramids offend me as a Jew and what they did to
> my people thousands of years ago. I may hire this
> fine barrister to further my cause.

Oh well, get over it Moses, what about my warriors that were drowned in the Red Sea??? What happened to turn the other cheek? Hmmmmm…??? LOL
Attachments:
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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: JustanFYI ()
Date: May 15, 2013 04:28PM

Uncle Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why can’t they pull down this statue and put up
> a statue of someone like Harriet Tubman, Nat
> Turner, or Frederick Douglass?

Those people offend me...

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Generally Ullyssess Grant ()
Date: May 15, 2013 04:29PM

The Civil War is over. You lost. Build your statues in the cemetery or a museum. Turncoat rebels...just a bunch of slack-jawed, moonshine-swilling, gray-coats.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Jay Carney ()
Date: May 15, 2013 04:37PM

The Civil War was a long time ago.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: General Washington ()
Date: May 15, 2013 05:40PM

My fellow countrymen, we must remember that I, as a Virginia slaveowner, led an Army of slack-jawed, moonshine swilling rebel turncoats in an effort to secede from the British Empire. We must also remember that General Ulyses S. Grant, a drunken, half-wit butcher, was also a slave owner.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: newgatedenizen ()
Date: May 15, 2013 06:50PM

"Can't we all just get along?" After all, the combatants themselves reconciled and respected each others monuments.

http://www.hmdb.org/Marker.asp?Marker=2469
Attachments:
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Civil-War-commemoration-Union-Confederate-soldiers-Gettysburg-2.jpg
REUNION.jpg
reconciliation.jpg

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: newgatedenizen ()
Date: May 15, 2013 08:41PM

E.g. Confederate veteran John N. Ballard (who lost a leg while riding with Mosby's Rangers) deeded a small lot on his farm in Chantilly area for the building of Union memorials.

http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=15168
http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=15170

He lost his leg in this action:
http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=1562

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Rameses ()
Date: May 15, 2013 08:56PM

Pharaoh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> moses Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wrote a letter to the leaders in Egypt. Their
> > pyramids offend me as a Jew and what they did
> to
> > my people thousands of years ago. I may hire
> this
> > fine barrister to further my cause.
>
> Oh well, get over it Moses, what about my warriors
> that were drowned in the Red Sea??? What happened
> to turn the other cheek? Hmmmmm…??? LOL

So let it be written .....the tally of bricks shall remain the same

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Baldy ()
Date: May 16, 2013 08:41AM

So let it be done.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: RowdyBurns ()
Date: May 16, 2013 09:04AM

Maybe his clients should have stayed out of trouble in the first place.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Jebodah ()
Date: May 16, 2013 09:20AM

RowdyBurns Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe his clients should have stayed out of
> trouble in the first place.

Maybe a good scare is just what they need. :)

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Will ()
Date: August 19, 2013 11:20AM

I'm from NY - don't lump me in with that moron.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: memorial committee ()
Date: August 19, 2013 11:24AM

Sharon Bulova will get a little statue of a trolleycar, surrounded by artificial turf.

George Allen will get a bronze noose.

Tammy Kaufax will get a number "0" set in the pavement-her IQ.

Ed Long will get a penny under plexiglass-the amount of money he saved the county.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Gramps ()
Date: August 19, 2013 12:39PM

PC correct, fuck this POS that wants to remove the statue, offended....man what a crock of shit....sends chills down peoples spines.....what a fucking joke.....we probable should work at offending more assholes so they can man the fuck up and manage their own lives a bit better, insted of crying like little bitchs......its nooooot faaaiiiirrrr.
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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Gramps ()
Date: August 19, 2013 12:39PM

PC correct, fuck this POS that wants to remove the statue, offended....man what a crock of shit....sends chills down peoples spines.....what a fucking joke.....we probable should work at offending more assholes so they can man the fuck up and manage their own lives a bit better, insted of crying like little bitchs......its nooooot faaaiiiirrrr.
Attachments:
1-760351-3154-t.jpg

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: yupper!@# ()
Date: August 19, 2013 12:48PM

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't understand the desire to whitewash
> history. There's nothing inappropriate about this
> statute. If anything, it's a monument to one of
> the most colossal mistakes in American history.

Agreed. If it wasn't for Pickett's Charge we would have won the war, now THAT's a mistake.

And another mistake is whatever crime these complainers committed to need a 'fair shake' at the Loudoun Court.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Read your history ()
Date: August 19, 2013 12:58PM

Read about the US Civil War - Slavery was a small part of the problems tearing this nation apart for decades.

As for racists - The people from New York City were some of the worst.

Let the truth set you free

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Time Machine ()
Date: August 19, 2013 01:18PM

Read your history Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Read about the US Civil War - Slavery was a small
> part of the problems tearing this nation apart for
> decades.
>
> As for racists - The people from New York City
> were some of the worst.
>
> Let the truth set you free

Slavery was a huge issue for the South as it was a major component of their economics and workforce. If you saw the "Lincoln" movie last summer, that's an excellent illustration of how big an issue slavery was.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Numbnutz ()
Date: August 19, 2013 01:21PM

"If you saw the "Lincoln" movie last summer"

History? Who needs it? I saw a movie!!

numbnutz...

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: makeithurt ()
Date: August 19, 2013 02:38PM

Are you kidding me! This idiot wants to come into Virginia and remove our statue to honor our war dead, someone needs to let him know that we disagree with his BS movement and this is Virginia and we do not take kindly to such affronts to our Southern Heritage.
Attachments:
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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Ebb Tide ()
Date: August 19, 2013 02:50PM

What a brave mo giving the thumbs down, wow really putting it on the line.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Read your history ()
Date: August 19, 2013 02:55PM

Time Machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Read your history Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Read about the US Civil War - Slavery was a
> small
> > part of the problems tearing this nation apart
> for
> > decades.
> >
> > As for racists - The people from New York City
> > were some of the worst.
> >
> > Let the truth set you free
>
> Slavery was a huge issue for the South as it was a
> major component of their economics and workforce.
> If you saw the "Lincoln" movie last summer, that's
> an excellent illustration of how big an issue
> slavery was.

Your statement scares me. When a person gets their history from a movie they believe what the director of the movie wants them to believe. It is called propaganda. So goes the people, so goes the nation. The Nazis were masters at this.

Do some research, read from different sources.

It was a war of northern aggression against the south. Lincoln set the slaves free so there would be someone he could draft into the union army.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Numbnutz ()
Date: August 19, 2013 03:13PM

Must be one hell of an attorney - the actual "Courthouse" is in the next building over & the entrance (and parking) is on Church street.

Numbnutz.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Time Machine ()
Date: August 19, 2013 03:37PM

Read your history Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Time Machine Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Read your history Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Read about the US Civil War - Slavery was a
> > small
> > > part of the problems tearing this nation
> apart
> > for
> > > decades.
> > >
> > > As for racists - The people from New York
> City
> > > were some of the worst.
> > >
> > > Let the truth set you free
> >
> > Slavery was a huge issue for the South as it was
> a
> > major component of their economics and
> workforce.
> > If you saw the "Lincoln" movie last summer,
> that's
> > an excellent illustration of how big an issue
> > slavery was.
>
> Your statement scares me. When a person gets their
> history from a movie they believe what the
> director of the movie wants them to believe. It is
> called propaganda. So goes the people, so goes the
> nation. The Nazis were masters at this.
>
> Do some research, read from different sources.
>
> It was a war of northern aggression against the
> south. Lincoln set the slaves free so there would
> be someone he could draft into the union army.

I am an historian, so I obviously didn't get that fact from the movie. The movie does illustrate why the South was so opposed to it and the 13th Amendment. The North did not "oppress" the south until well into the Civil War. The North merely tried to curtail slavery in the Southern States and new territories.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Willy Wonk ()
Date: August 19, 2013 03:51PM

Time Machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I am an historian, so I obviously didn't get that
> fact from the movie.

sure sounded that way

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Read your history ()
Date: August 19, 2013 04:00PM

Just read your fucking history - Because if you don't we will not give you a statue.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Numbnutz ()
Date: August 19, 2013 04:08PM

"I am an historian"

Then you should be aware that the 13th Amend. was enacted after the CW...

Oh, you're not a historian, you're a numbnutz.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Yankee go home! ()
Date: August 19, 2013 06:35PM

That shitbag, many Virginians died just protecting their land and home, the vast majority which never even had slaves. What the fuck were they suppoaed to do? They didn't start the war, they were forced to defend their property. Fuck that yankee shitbag. He would be the first fuck to bow down and suck a dick and hand over his farm.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Time Machine ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:21PM

Numbnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I am an historian"
>
> Then you should be aware that the 13th Amend. was
> enacted after the CW...
>
But was introduced during the Civil War but didn't have enough votes to pass. but you're right it was passed after the end of the Civil War. Was I the only only paying attention in history class?

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Time Machine ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:23PM

Numbnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Must be one hell of an attorney - the actual
> "Courthouse" is in the next building over & the
> entrance (and parking) is on Church street.
>
> Numbnutz.

It is now, it was burned down twice by people from the town.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Numbnutz ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:24PM

"But was introduced during the Civil War but didn't have enough votes to pass. but you're right it was passed after the end of the Civil War"

WTF? "votes to pass"??? It was an amendment, not an election.

*facepalm*

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: ???????? ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:28PM

Numbnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "But was introduced during the Civil War but
> didn't have enough votes to pass. but you're right
> it was passed after the end of the Civil War"
>
> WTF? "votes to pass"??? It was an amendment, not
> an election.
>
> *facepalm*

Uh, are you fucking stupid? Amendments are voted on in the House of Representatives and the Senate, and either signed or Vetoed by the president. I guess you just got here off the rice boat.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Epic Fail ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:31PM

Numbnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "But was introduced during the Civil War but
> didn't have enough votes to pass. but you're right
> it was passed after the end of the Civil War"
>
> WTF? "votes to pass"??? It was an amendment, not
> an election.
>
> *facepalm*

Amendments get voted on by the House and the Senate fucknuts. What's the matter, too much weed and not enough paying attention in US History. God, you suck.
Attachments:
potato.jpg

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Time Machine ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:32PM

???????? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amendments are voted
> on in the House of Representatives and the Senate,
> and either signed or Vetoed by the president.

That's right, Amendments are written/sponsored, then brought to the floor for a vote. Here's something that even Numbnutz can understand...

I'm Just a Bill (Schoolhouse Rock!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyeJ55o3El0

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Numbnutz ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:33PM

"Amendments get voted on by the House and the Senate fucknuts"

No kidding. Now tell me how that relates to what the alleged history nut mangled.

Oh, you can't? Well, allow me to retort. F**k off.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: TM doesn't know the difference ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:34PM

between a bill (Legislation) and an Amendment to the Constitution.

Must be an FCPS grad.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Time Machine ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:37PM

TM doesn't know the difference Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> between a bill (Legislation) and an Amendment to
> the Constitution.
>
> Must be an FCPS grad.

I think you're the FCPS grad.

A bill is draft or proposal to make a Law, which is presented to the elected representatives. A amendment is a change made to an existing law, with the approval of the elected representatives.

Specifically, An amendment to the Constitution has to be approved by 75% of the state's legislature after it has been approved by over 50% of congress. For a new Law, Congress has to approve it by 50% for it to become a law. A bill is only a suggestion by someone to become a law. The bill has to go through committees, and then through Congress to become a law. A law can always be vetoed by the President unless two thirds of congress override his veto. And any Law can be shot down by the U.S. Supreme Court except an amendment to the Constitution

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: ?????? ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:38PM

Numbnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Amendments get voted on by the House and the
> Senate fucknuts"
>
> No kidding. Now tell me how that relates to what
> the alleged history nut mangled.
>
> Oh, you can't? Well, allow me to retort. F**k off.
Attachments:
tumblr_inline_mgqf7gUdzc1rcea7z.jpg

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: TM doesn't know $... ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:39PM

"An amendment to the Constitution has to be approved by 75% of the state's legislature after it has been approved by over 50% of congress"


W... T... F...?

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: ?????? ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:40PM

Wrong again!

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Numbnutz ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:42PM

"The Constitution provides that an amendment may be proposed either by the Congress with a two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate or by a constitutional convention called for by two-thirds of the State legislatures. .... The Congress proposes an amendment in the form of a joint resolution. Since the President does not have a constitutional role in the amendment process, the joint resolution does not go to the White House for signature or approval"


Sigh.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Read your history ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:42PM

???????? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Numbnutz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "But was introduced during the Civil War but
> > didn't have enough votes to pass. but you're
> right
> > it was passed after the end of the Civil War"
> >
> > WTF? "votes to pass"??? It was an amendment,
> not
> > an election.
> >
> > *facepalm*
>
> Uh, are you fucking stupid? Amendments are voted
> on in the House of Representatives and the Senate,
> and either signed or Vetoed by the president. I
> guess you just got here off the rice boat.

Amendments also need to be ratified by a percentage of the states. Without the ratification the amendment will linger for decades.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Clarified ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:43PM

Numbnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Amendments get voted on by the House and the
> Senate fucknuts"
>
> No kidding. Now tell me how that relates to what
> the alleged history nut mangled.
>
I think I can clear this up. The 13th Amendment wasn't passed during the Civil War, but what Lincoln did was use at a political tool to legally back his Emancipation Proclamation. As I understand it, he was overstepping his bounds by overriding the rights of the states by imposing something like it. Since the South's economy was tied to using slave labor they didn't want to give it up. lus they were worried about having freed slaves within their territory, not under any kind of control.

While Lincoln was pushing the 13th Amendment to get the votes needed for it, the South had sent up three representatives to discuss peace negotiations. It was part of deal that Lincoln had made with his party to get all the votes from his party for the amendment. Lincoln delliberately had their trip delayed at Hampton Roads, while he went around buying the votes he needed.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: K Brown ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:44PM

the sixties want their haircut back and lose that bow tie, what a tool

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Huey ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:44PM

Meanwhile, Fairfax County has an entire high school, as infested with TB as it is, dedicated to Robert E. Lee, a slaveowner and traitor to his country, his president, and his West Point oath.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Reading is FUNdamental ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:44PM

No Shiite, sherlock. I'm just pointing out to our resident history expert that the prezzy has nothing to do w/the process.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Time Machine ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:46PM

TM doesn't know $... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "An amendment to the Constitution has to be
> approved by 75% of the state's legislature after
> it has been approved by over 50% of congress"
>
>
> W... T... F...?

During the Civil War this was so. Remember, the Civil War took place over one hundred years ago.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Numbnutz ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:47PM

"I think I can clear this up"

Good try - and some good info. Sadly, the self declared expert here still isn't clear as to bill vs. Amendment to the Constituion.

FCPS FTW!

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Numbnutz ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:48PM

"During the Civil War this was so"

Was that when Lincoln suspended Article 5?

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Clarified ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:49PM

Reading is FUNdamental Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No Shiite, sherlock. I'm just pointing out to our
> resident history expert that the prezzy has
> nothing to do w/the process.

He does actually, he can rally support for it. In Lincoln's case, he actually actually had his cabinet members hire people to bribe the Democrats for votes by offering them federal jobs (in place of money).

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Time Machine ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:51PM

Numbnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "During the Civil War this was so"
>
> Was that when Lincoln suspended Article 5?

Lincoln was hated by many in the both the North and the South because he suspended so many civil liberties. In fact, I've heard modern historians say that from John Wilkes Booth's point of view, he was killing a tyrant. Sadly, the south lost an unlikely ally when Lincoln was killed. Lincoln had a number of generous reconstruction plans for the South. When he was killed, his VP Johnson became president and punished the South severely.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: AgainstRevisionism ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:52PM

No need to white wash history. Man up pussies because you are going to rile up the wasp's nest.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Lolz ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:52PM

Numbnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I think I can clear this up"
>
> Good try - and some good info. Sadly, the self
> declared expert here still isn't clear as to bill
> vs. Amendment to the Constituion.
>
> FCPS FTW!

LOLz your name is perfect for you.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Hey Rednecks! ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:53PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Attachments:
15hvC2M.jpg

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Numbnutz ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:54PM

Lincoln was hated by many in the both the North and the South because he suspended so many civil liberties


You do know that A5 is the Amendment process to the Constitution, right?

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Yu Failed ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:55PM

Huey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meanwhile, Fairfax County has an entire high
> school, as infested with TB as it is, dedicated to
> Robert E. Lee, a slaveowner and traitor to his
> country, his president, and his West Point oath.

You mean a slaveholder like Washington, Jefferson and so on that are also names of county schools?

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Hey Rednecks Gets it Right. ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:56PM

You lost, and the lawyer from NY is an idiot, and this isn't in Fairfax, anyway.

Gitrdone!!

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Read your history ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:56PM

Huey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meanwhile, Fairfax County has an entire high
> school, as infested with TB as it is, dedicated to
> Robert E. Lee, a slaveowner and traitor to his
> country, his president, and his West Point oath.

Don't forget about Stonewall Jackson H.S. in Manassas, and JEB Sturat H.S. The Jefferson Davis Hwy, Fort A.P. Hill

These men were Virginia Patriots

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Time Machine ()
Date: August 19, 2013 07:59PM

Numbnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lincoln was hated by many in the both the North
> and the South because he suspended so many civil
> liberties
>
>
> You do know that A5 is the Amendment process to
> the Constitution, right?

The only issue with the Amendment process during the time of the Civil War was the Southern States that seceded from the Union and became the Confederacy. They couldn't vote any new bills or amendments.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the war when a mob attacked the railroad tracks between Annapolis and Philadelphia. Which not something legally he should have been able to do.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Time Machine ()
Date: August 19, 2013 08:02PM

Later the Congress passed the Habeas Corpus Suspension Act, which gave Lincoln the power to suspended habeas corpus anywhere in the Union. In the Confederacy, Jefferson Davis also suspended habeas corpus and imposed martial law.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: ????? ()
Date: August 19, 2013 08:03PM

Read your history Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't forget about Stonewall Jackson H.S. in
> Manassas, and JEB Sturat H.S. The Jefferson Davis
> Hwy, Fort A.P. Hill
>
> These men were Virginia Patriots

Who cares? They were traitors, and lost the war. They were part of a rebellion that pulled away from the Union, so they were all rebels and traitors. They backed the wrong side and ended up pushing up daisies.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Huey ()
Date: August 19, 2013 08:06PM

Yu Failed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Huey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Meanwhile, Fairfax County has an entire high
> > school, as infested with TB as it is, dedicated
> to
> > Robert E. Lee, a slaveowner and traitor to his
> > country, his president, and his West Point
> oath.
>
> You mean a slaveholder like Washington, Jefferson
> and so on that are also names of county schools?


They did not take up arms against their country.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Huey ()
Date: August 19, 2013 08:09PM

Of course, as Ben Franklin supposedly said, treason is a crime invented by winners as an excuse for hanging losers.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Oh really? ()
Date: August 19, 2013 08:11PM

Huey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course, as Ben Franklin supposedly said,
> treason is a crime invented by winners as an
> excuse for hanging losers.

Ben Franklin also said "He that lieth down with dogs shall rise up with fleas."

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: hisstory ()
Date: August 19, 2013 08:13PM

Huey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yu Failed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Huey Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Meanwhile, Fairfax County has an entire high
> > > school, as infested with TB as it is,
> dedicated
> > to
> > > Robert E. Lee, a slaveowner and traitor to
> his
> > > country, his president, and his West Point
> > oath.
> >
> > You mean a slaveholder like Washington,
> Jefferson
> > and so on that are also names of county
> schools?
>
>
> They did not take up arms against their
> country.


Yes they did, England

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: ????? ()
Date: August 19, 2013 08:13PM

People who like the Confederacy remind me of Redskins fans. They're so full of confidence, arrogance, and shit on Friday afternoon, yet by Monday morning they've got the "Redskins Facepalm" going on all day.
Attachments:
900x900px-LL-17abc049_Redskins-Facepalm-psd37809.png

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Time Machine ()
Date: August 19, 2013 08:34PM

hisstory Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Huey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yu Failed Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Huey Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Meanwhile, Fairfax County has an entire
> high
> > > > school, as infested with TB as it is,
> > dedicated
> > > to
> > > > Robert E. Lee, a slaveowner and traitor to
> > his
> > > > country, his president, and his West Point
> > > oath.
> > >
> > > You mean a slaveholder like Washington,
> > Jefferson
> > > and so on that are also names of county
> > schools?
> >
> >
> > They did not take up arms against their
> > country.
>
>
> Yes they did, England

Yes, but England was an Empire, where disobedience meant torture and death.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Clear Channel ()
Date: August 19, 2013 08:51PM

Time Machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, but England was an Empire, where disobedience
> meant torture and death.


You didnt ask that you asked for examples of Washington and Jefferson taking up arms against their country.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Huey ()
Date: August 19, 2013 09:37PM

England was a monarchy. Washington did not take up arms against his country, he took up arms against the king. And the colonies were just that, colonies, not entirely part of the "country." Just an adjunct, like Puerto Rico is today to the US. And I don't believe Jefferson was ever a soldier.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Offended by All ()
Date: August 19, 2013 09:56PM

There are grave markers in France for nazi German soldiers. This is a travesty that a busybody lib lawyer should act on immediately.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Jefferson was a pu$$y ()
Date: August 19, 2013 09:59PM

"And I don't believe Jefferson was ever a soldier"

F'ing chickenhawk is what he was. Founded a school of chickenhawks.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Good Long Piss ()
Date: August 19, 2013 10:21PM

On the bleach blonde Yankee "Come Here" Lawyer

"Posted by: newgatedenizen ()

Date: May 15, 2013 06:50PM


"Can't we all just get along?" After all, the combatants themselves reconciled and respected each others monuments. "

You have got it Right! Nail Hit Square on the Head! AA++

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Ugh! ()
Date: August 20, 2013 07:05AM

Good Long Piss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the bleach blonde Yankee "Come Here" Lawyer
>
> "Posted by: newgatedenizen ()
>
> Date: May 15, 2013 06:50PM
>
>
> "Can't we all just get along?" After all, the
> combatants themselves reconciled and respected
> each others monuments. "
>
> You have got it Right! Nail Hit Square on the
> Head! AA++
Attachments:
Welcome_d0bf3d_1143287.gif

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: August 20, 2013 07:21AM

Huey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And I don't believe Jefferson
> was ever a soldier.

Actually he was. Before the Revolution he was appointed colonel of the Albemarle County militia by the Royal Governor of Virginia.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: Huey ()
Date: August 20, 2013 08:14AM

Thank you. Nice to know this.

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Re: 105-year-old Confederate statue stirs controversy
Posted by: F niggers ()
Date: August 20, 2013 08:25AM

Niggers are crazy uppity these days. Time to put hem where hey belong.

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