I was hoping to get a serious answer on this one, do our local police officers have absolutely clean records(doesnt have to be related JUST to Fairfax County, any other local ones as well). I seem to hear it more and more that not all cops have a perfect traffic/criminal records so I am just wondering how does the county employ those and where do they draw the line? I am not interested in employment but would just like to know.

Considering murder is not punishable, I would assume everything else is OK as well

they're all uneducated fools. i think you only need 15 - 30 college credits to become a pig, errr, cop in fairfax county

Oddly enough, most have degrees in criminal un/justice..

You can have a record and still be a police officer. There are two ways to do this and they both make perfect sense.

1. You have committed a crime or crimes and a period of time has passed and a judge grants the person an expungement. An expungement erases your arrest and conviction from public records but not from the police. Meaning, a background check from an employer other than law enforcement cannot see it and in fact that person can legally answer "no", if asked if they were ever convicted of a crime. This is a good thing. People make mistakes and should not have to pay for them for the rest of their life, depending on the crime of course. And expungement rules are very strict in that regard.

2. Police chiefs have the authority to name a person a police officer even without an expungement if they feel that this person can contribute to the overall safety of his community. The reasoning is that a former but rehabilitated criminal knows better than the average police officer, how criminals think and operate.

Most police are good. Think about how you would be if day after day you speed on your way to a bad event. Get there only to find someone is a liar. Gets old fast. Police are people too - treat them with the respect they deserve and they will most often overlook small things.

Hey Rich - I appreciate the impetus behind your post, but in the future, I would suggest refraining from opening your cyber-trap before you check your facts.

To suggest that police departments recruit, encourgage, or entertain "reformed criminals" as potential employees is ignorant and short-sighted. You can teach anyone anything if they have common sense, so the importance of criminal know how is not something requisite prior to being a cop...it can be learned with good instincts and time on the street..and since you mentioned it - most criminals are stupid (aint locking up the einstein of check fraud everyday).

I could go on for paragraphs about this...I will put it to you this way: They (police departments) don't look for perfect people, they look for good people with integrity. Each dept has their own threshold regarding what is acceptable on an objective level (e.g. no drug except MJ or automatically disqualified, no MJ use within 5 years, etc), and this does vary from dept to dept. Case in point - I personally know a guy who used mini-thins in college when he was body building....good dude, hard worker, hella nice guy. One dept in northern VA DQ'd him due to the mini-thin use, another one hired him (and you bet both dept background investigators and personnel div's talked to make sure they both had the same info on the guy).

Another guy I knew had NO criminal history, 1 red light ticket, 1 speeding ticket, 1 fail to obey hwy signs ticket in the 10 yrs prior to applying...almost got DQ'd just because of driving record.

Notable exception...MPD in DC...they give away badges with a full tank of gas....lol.

As for Take a Stand and Citi Zen - you would be surprised how worthless a criminal justice degree is and how few cops have them,...big difference between theory and practice. Do know quite a few with BS, BA, masters and other advanced degrees. Others with just high school. As for getting away with murder...pretty sure I know the incident you are speaking of - guess it is out of the realm of possibility for cops to have an accident, after all they are superhuman right? Must have been murder right? You were there, right? I mean, you are speaking in such an absolute-fact sort of way, you must know something we dont? Would love to sit down over copy and talk about what you know.

Rich - you are right about one thing...they are human, they are perfect, and I am sure that every once and awhile a bad ticket is written, a cops attitude is less than professional, and mistakes are made. Nature of the beast....thats why there is a thing we call due process, and people we call judges and a jury of our peers, as well as internal affairs.

IMIM:

Thanks for appreciating my support of law enforcement. I sense that you are involved with such and thus the attitude that only the pure are accepted.

My first impression with your comments or rather chastising, is that you are either a rookie or are not in fact, in law enforcement. Not bashing you mind you, just making and educated guess when faced with a totally off the wall response.

I know felons that are employed by law enforcement agencies. I have had meetings with many police decision makers and I know many state police officers who have had to have their records expunged.

I do not speak out of Cyber - whatever you called it - I speak reality. Reality is - YES - MOST criminal minded types are idiots. But, there are very well educated criminals that know how to do things I will not mention here that need to be addressed, they live and operate with impunity, because of police ignorance.

Accept the facts and win the war or deny and let them win. Your choice.

Dumb ass forgot one thing, you will not go very far in most departments without a degree. Fairfax County police brass (captains & above) are educated people. Many have masters degrees.

Rich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
\
> 1. You have committed a crime or crimes and a
> period of time has passed and a judge grants the
> person an expungement. An expungement erases your
> arrest and conviction from public records but not
> from the police.


Wait, I thought once you were convicted of a crime there is no way to get an expungement?

Rich - Let me attempt to clarify, as what I thought were clearly presented facts and opinions were slightly skewed in your response:

1. Referring to my comment that they look for "good people, not perfect people", in no way did I imply that "only the pure" are accepted.

2. As for felons, and officers with expunged records - I am not suggesting that this is not the case, merely articulating that it is the exception, not the rule (and again varies from dept to dept what the threshold is, I refer you again to my original post).

3. As for the well educated criminals - again, you are corrrect they DO exist, however the diabolical criminal mind is again the exception, not the rule (except on TV). I feel compelled to reiterate that a good cop/detective with common sense can become skilled in the art without being a former criminal himself.

4. As for educated criminals acting with impunity due to what you refer to as "cop ignorance", welcome to law enforcement in the 21st century. Avoiding getting into an operational and philosophical debate, using fairfax co as an example, its the smallest per-capita police department in the country with the 16th largest population. We will never obtain the crimeless utopia you seem to be frustrated we do not currently enjoy.

Laughing @ Me - again, please re-read my post. There are the whole gambit of educational backgrounds. You have beat cops with masters degrees, and Captains with high-school diplomas. Only recently were educational requirements instituted for the ranks of major and above, and again this varies from dept to dept.

CORRECTION:

In my original post, the line was meant to read "Rich - you are right about one thing...they are human, they are NOT perfect".

I apologize for this oversight and the subsequent confusion...no wonder it was midunderstood.

Consumer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rich Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> \
> > 1. You have committed a crime or crimes and a
> > period of time has passed and a judge grants
> the
> > person an expungement. An expungement erases
> your
> > arrest and conviction from public records but
> not
> > from the police.
>
>
> Wait, I thought once you were convicted of a crime
> there is no way to get an expungement?


No if you do not have too many convictions and / or they are not considered notoriuos you can have a conviction expunged. Each state has their own rules on the conditions. For instance in New Jersey you can have 3 felonies and 2 lessor crimes and be granted expungement - however, crimes of murder, rape etc cannot be expunged there.

Check your state for details, far too many people live with a record in ignorance.

IMIM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CORRECTION:
>
> In my original post, the line was meant to read
> "Rich - you are right about one thing...they are
> human, they are NOT perfect".
>
> I apologize for this oversight and the subsequent
> confusion...no wonder it was midunderstood.


LOL! No problem at all - I think we are on the ame page anyway.

Rich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No if you do not have too many convictions and /
> or they are not considered notoriuos you can have
> a conviction expunged. Each state has their own
> rules on the conditions. For instance in New
> Jersey you can have 3 felonies and 2 lessor crimes
> and be granted expungement - however, crimes of
> murder, rape etc cannot be expunged there.
>
> Check your state for details, far too many people
> live with a record in ignorance.



Well, I have a very small charge from when I was 18, definetely nothing notorious. I would greatly appreciate if you could point me in a direction of how to start the paper work. I have contacted a lawyer not too long about this and was told since I was found guilty that there is nothing I or them can do except apply for a pardon.

Your lawyer was correct. You can't just have your convictions expunged because you don't like having a criminal record. You can only have a record expunged if you were acquitted or the case was dismissed.


§ 19.2-392.2. Expungement of police and court records.

A. If a person is charged with the commission of a crime or any offense defined in Title 18.2, and

1. Is acquitted, or

2. A nolle prosequi is taken or the charge is otherwise dismissed, including dismissal by accord and satisfaction pursuant to § 19.2-151, he may file a petition setting forth the relevant facts and requesting expungement of the police records and the court records relating to the charge.

B. If any person whose name or other identification has been used without his consent or authorization by another person who has been charged or arrested using such name or identification, he may file a petition with the court disposing of the charge for relief pursuant to this section.

C. The petition with a copy of the warrant or indictment if reasonably available shall be filed in the circuit court of the county or city in which the case was disposed of by acquittal or being otherwise dismissed and shall contain, except where not reasonably available, the date of arrest and the name of the arresting agency. Where this information is not reasonably available, the petition shall state the reason for such unavailability. The petition shall further state the specific criminal charge to be expunged, the date of final disposition of the charge as set forth in the petition, the petitioner's date of birth, and the full name used by the petitioner at the time of arrest.

D. A copy of the petition shall be served on the attorney for the Commonwealth of the city or county in which the petition is filed. The attorney for the Commonwealth may file an objection or answer to the petition within 21 days after it is served on him.

E. The petitioner shall obtain from a law-enforcement agency one complete set of the petitioner's fingerprints and shall provide that agency with a copy of the petition for expungement. The law-enforcement agency shall submit the set of fingerprints to the Central Criminal Records Exchange (CCRE) with a copy of the petition for expungement attached. The CCRE shall forward under seal to the court a copy of the petitioner's criminal history, a copy of the source documents that resulted in the CCRE entry that the petitioner wishes to expunge, and the set of fingerprints. Upon completion of the hearing, the court shall return the fingerprint card to the petitioner.

F. After receiving the criminal history record information from the CCRE, the court shall conduct a hearing on the petition. If the court finds that the continued existence and possible dissemination of information relating to the arrest of the petitioner causes or may cause circumstances which constitute a manifest injustice to the petitioner, it shall enter an order requiring the expungement of the police and court records, including electronic records, relating to the charge. Otherwise, it shall deny the petition. However, if the petitioner has no prior criminal record and the arrest was for a misdemeanor violation, the petitioner shall be entitled, in the absence of good cause shown to the contrary by the Commonwealth, to expungement of the police and court records relating to the charge, and the court shall enter an order of expungement.

G. The Commonwealth shall be made party defendant to the proceeding. Any party aggrieved by the decision of the court may appeal, as provided by law in civil cases.

H. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, when the charge is dismissed because the court finds that the person arrested or charged is not the person named in the summons, warrant, indictment or presentment, the court dismissing the charge shall, upon motion of the person improperly arrested or charged, enter an order requiring expungement of the police and court records relating to the charge. Such order shall contain a statement that the dismissal and expungement are ordered pursuant to this subsection. Upon the entry of such order, it shall be treated as provided in subsection K hereof.

I. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, when a person has been granted an absolute pardon for the commission of a crime that he did not commit, he may file in the circuit court of the county or city in which the conviction occurred a petition setting forth the relevant facts and requesting expungement of the police records and the court records relating to the charge and conviction, and the court shall enter an order requiring expungement of the police and court records relating to the charge and conviction. Such order shall contain a statement that the expungement is ordered pursuant to this subsection. Upon the entry of such order, it shall be treated as provided in subsection K hereof.

J. Upon receiving a copy of a writ vacating a conviction pursuant to § 19.2-327.5 or 19.2-327.13, the court shall enter an order requiring expungement of the police and court records relating to the charge and conviction. Such order shall contain a statement that the expungement is ordered pursuant to this subsection. Upon the entry of the order, it shall be treated as provided in subsection K hereof.

K. Upon the entry of an order of expungement, the clerk of the court shall cause a copy of such order to be forwarded to the Department of State Police, which shall, pursuant to rules and regulations adopted pursuant to § 9.1-134, direct the manner by which the appropriate expungement or removal of such records shall be effected.

L. Costs shall be as provided by § 17.1-275, but shall not be recoverable against the Commonwealth.

M. Any order entered where (i) the court or parties failed to strictly comply with the procedures set forth in this section or (ii) the court enters an order of expungement contrary to law, shall be voidable upon motion and notice made within three years of the entry of such order.

(1977, c. 675; 1983, c. 394; 1984, c. 642; 1990, c. 603; 1992, c. 697; 2001, cc. 40, 345; 2007, cc. 465, 824, 883, 905.)

<<<<>>>>>

those are the white collar cop workers who sit in offices all day long, known as INVESTIGATORS AND DETECTIVES

im referring to the traffic pigs you see pulling over innocent people on the street everyday. those fools have a max. of 2 semesters of nova

i mean lets face it, anyone with the least amount of intellect, isnt going to sign up to be a pig. ppl sign up to become pigs to get easy benefits and pay

these dudes dont have the intellect or technical skills to work in the private sector, or corporate america

The police force is what high school bullies join when they decide to make bullying their career.

Vapreneur - not sure where to start debunking your uninformed diatribe...

I guess you think that investigators and detectives just magically get recruited and plugged into these "white collar" positions? Every detective/investigator started out at the academy and then as a beat cop just like everyone else. Specialty positions (investigation etc) are awarded through competitive process. Same goes for every other rank position.

As stated in a previous post, you would be surprised at the range of educational backgrounds that are there. There are minimums that must be met, and certain glass ceilings based on that. That being said, there are, how did you refer to it..."traffic pigs" out there with Master's degrees,and detectives or ranking officers with nothing more than a high-school diploma.

I agree not every cop out there has the aptitude to be an investigator, but this penomenon is not exclusive to the public sector - Special Jimmy might be able to get a job at micky-d's, but they wont let him work the fryer.

As for your blanket statement regarding "intellect and technical skills", you could not be more wrong. Any major police department anywhere is run very similarly to a private sector corporation....procurement, contracts, grants, policy, procedure etc. etc. etc, all of which are handled by *shocker* cops. The technology and information systems involved are also comparable, if not beyond, the typical private sector business.

I would argue the exact opposite of what you presented - I think that most could survive very easily in the private sector or corporate America...and many do upon retirement.

Say hi to Jimmy for me...

Upon checking (out of the goodness of my heart :) ) I found that getting an expungement in Virginia even for a felony requires going through one of the 3 pardons below. So you first apply for your "restoration of rights", see link below. Then apply for the pardon and if granted, apply for the expungement.

Tough - but doable.

There are three types of pardons: simple, conditional, and absolute. All three types require the petitioner to write a letter to the governor stating why the pardon should be granted. If you have been convicted of a felony you must have your rights restored before the Governor will consider a petition for a pardon.

Under Article V, Section 12, of the Virginia Constitution and Section 53.1-229 through 53.1-231 of the Code of Virginia, all clemency authority is vested solely in the Governor. Clemency is not guaranteed and if a petition is denied, the petitioner has no right of appeal.

Petitions for the restoration of rights and pardons are processed by the Secretary of the Commonwealth. Files are reviewed according to the order in which a completed application is received. The petitioner is notified by mail as to whether his or her petition has been granted or denied by the Governor.

http://www.soc.state.va.us/JudicialSystem/Clemency/clemency.cfm

Thanks for the link Rich. I was charged and convicted of a hit and run , class 1 misedemeanor. At the time I had only liability insurance and when I hit the other guy he offered to settle on cash, I gave him $400 and then the next day when the prick realized his insurance werent going to cover him without a police report, he called the cops and told them I left without stopping. On top of things my license was expired so I was at fault right away. Hopefully I can have a pardon granted but from what I heard it takes up to a year but I think I have a good reason for consideration. Oh and ofcourse there was no personal injury, I hit the guys door coming into a turn, it was raining.....hard to explain.

Consumer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the link Rich. I was charged and
> convicted of a hit and run , class 1 misedemeanor.
> At the time I had only liability insurance and
> when I hit the other guy he offered to settle on
> cash, I gave him $400 and then the next day when
> the prick realized his insurance werent going to
> cover him without a police report, he called the
> cops and told them I left without stopping. On top
> of things my license was expired so I was at fault
> right away. Hopefully I can have a pardon granted
> but from what I heard it takes up to a year but I
> think I have a good reason for consideration. Oh
> and ofcourse there was no personal injury, I hit
> the guys door coming into a turn, it was
> raining.....hard to explain.


Good luck and keep us informed - I am checking other legal avenues.

Rich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Consumer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks for the link Rich. I was charged and
> > convicted of a hit and run , class 1
> misedemeanor.
> > At the time I had only liability insurance and
> > when I hit the other guy he offered to settle
> on
> > cash, I gave him $400 and then the next day
> when
> > the prick realized his insurance werent going
> to
> > cover him without a police report, he called
> the
> > cops and told them I left without stopping. On
> top
> > of things my license was expired so I was at
> fault
> > right away. Hopefully I can have a pardon
> granted
> > but from what I heard it takes up to a year but
> I
> > think I have a good reason for consideration.
> Oh
> > and ofcourse there was no personal injury, I
> hit
> > the guys door coming into a turn, it was
> > raining.....hard to explain.
>
>
> Good luck and keep us informed - I am checking
> other legal avenues.



Do you guys really think that the Governor is going to pardon him? I'm guessing more than likely not since they are only granted for "exceptional situations."


Pardons


General Information

"Pardons are considered for exceptional situations. Usually Virginia governors are reluctant to substitute their judgment for that of the courts. However, if an individual feels able to provide substantial evidence of such exceptional circumstances, he or she may submit a petition for pardon to the Governor. (If this petition for clemency is denied, the petitioner has no right of appeal, but may reapply after a two-year period.)"

Source: http://www.commonwealth.virginia.gov/JudicialSystem/Clemency/pardons.cfm


I tried to find statistics for Governor Kaine and could not find any. I did find that the previous governor, Mark Warner, only issued 12 pardons in his 4 year term. I would say that the odds are not with you and I certainly would not hold your breath.

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rich Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Consumer Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Thanks for the link Rich. I was charged and
> > > convicted of a hit and run , class 1
> > misedemeanor.
> > > At the time I had only liability insurance
> and
> > > when I hit the other guy he offered to settle
> > on
> > > cash, I gave him $400 and then the next day
> > when
> > > the prick realized his insurance werent going
> > to
> > > cover him without a police report, he called
> > the
> > > cops and told them I left without stopping.
> On
> > top
> > > of things my license was expired so I was at
> > fault
> > > right away. Hopefully I can have a pardon
> > granted
> > > but from what I heard it takes up to a year
> but
> > I
> > > think I have a good reason for consideration.
> > Oh
> > > and ofcourse there was no personal injury, I
> > hit
> > > the guys door coming into a turn, it was
> > > raining.....hard to explain.
> >
> >
> > Good luck and keep us informed - I am checking
> > other legal avenues.
>
>
>
> Do you guys really think that the Governor is
> going to pardon him? I'm guessing more than
> likely not since they are only granted for
> "exceptional situations."
>
>
> Pardons
>
>
> General Information
>
> "Pardons are considered for exceptional
> situations. Usually Virginia governors are
> reluctant to substitute their judgment for that of
> the courts. However, if an individual feels able
> to provide substantial evidence of such
> exceptional circumstances, he or she may submit a
> petition for pardon to the Governor. (If this
> petition for clemency is denied, the petitioner
> has no right of appeal, but may reapply after a
> two-year period.)"
>
> Source:
> http://www.commonwealth.virginia.gov/JudicialSyste
> m/Clemency/pardons.cfm
>
>
> I tried to find statistics for Governor Kaine and
> could not find any. I did find that the previous
> governor, Mark Warner, only issued 12 pardons in
> his 4 year term. I would say that the odds are
> not with you and I certainly would not hold your
> breath.


Study the process more.

Also, take a look at the following information. Consumer is only eligible for a simple pardon or an absolute pardon. In the unlikely event a pardon was issued, it would likely be a simple pardon since an absolute pardon is rarely granted and is based on the belief that he was unjustly convicted and is innocent. Further, a simple pardon would not expunge anything from his record.


Three Pardon Types
There are three types of pardons:

1. A Simple Pardon is a statement of official forgiveness. While it does not expunge (remove the conviction from) the record, it often serves as a means for the petitioner to advance in employment, education, and self-esteem. Evidence of good citizenship is required, as are favorable recommendations from the officials involved in the case and from the Virginia Parole Board. Get more information about Simple Pardons.

2. A Conditional Pardon is available only to people who are currently incarcerated. It is usually granted for early release and involves certain conditions; if you violate these conditions, you could be put back in prison. There must be extraordinary circumstances for an inmate to be considered for such a pardon. Get more information about Conditional Pardons.

3. An Absolute Pardon is rarely granted because it is based on the belief that the petitioner was unjustly convicted and is innocent. An absolute pardon is the only form of executive clemency that would allow you to petition the court to have that conviction removed from your criminal record. Get more information about Absolute Pardons.

Rich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Study the process more.



I'm not going to study anything any further. I just don't think the Governor hands out pardons like pieces of candy and I would say your chances are an extreme longshot, that's all.

Well, I am aware that it would still be on my record but its my easier to say to a potential employee that "hey I got convicted because the guy decided to screw me but I went through the trouble to get a pardon and actually got one". Just trying to make the best out of what I got. I really do appreciate the time you folks took to post the information.

Consumer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I am aware that it would still be on my
> record but its my easier to say to a potential
> employee that "hey I got convicted because the guy
> decided to screw me but I went through the trouble
> to get a pardon and actually got one". Just trying
> to make the best out of what I got. I really do
> appreciate the time you folks took to post the
> information.


From what I read you have an excellent shot - I encourage you to take it now. You will get an answer on the first leg, even though that answer is final - I think you have better than a 90% chance.