For what it's worth - I live 10 minutes from Trummer's and not in Clifton - and I'm going to take the whole fence on your comment that the local populace sustains on KFC and McDonald's - you can take your arrogance and snotty nosed comments and keep them to yourself. As far as the choices made by restaurateurs - they've got big rocks to open any restaurant in this economy and as far as kinks - anyone knows that even Per Se had opening jitters - even with the ego and planning of Keller...

Diner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, if I were WTL, I would be a little
> worried about a libel lawsuit. It seems to me
> that if Wayne Rash discovers this thread, and is
> litigation minded, he would have a pretty solid
> case. WTL has repeatly accused him of posting
> fictitious reviews, impersonating other users, and
> stated that he works for the Trummer's. I can say
> categorically, that he is not the same person as
> Diner, and I think it's pretty clear that Brenda
> is a different person altogether since she has a
> record of posting on other websites using that
> name. He has also called Mr. Rash a "PR hack". I
> don't know if Mr. Rash works for the Trummer's or
> not, but the evidence seems flimsy at best. Mr.
> Rash would have a good argument that WTL's
> statements have been harmful to his business,
> thereby demonstrating material harm.
>
> In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel
> (for written words), slander (for spoken words),
> and vilification) is the communication of a
> statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or
> implied to be factual, that may give an
> individual, business, product, group, government
> or nation a negative image. It is usually, but not
> always,[1] a requirement that this claim be false
> and that the publication is communicated to
> someone other than the person defamed (the
> claimant).
>
>

Read my comments. I didn't say anything to defame anyone. Writing "I bet anything" isn't the same thing as saying, "I know for a fact." And calling a PR guy a PR "hack" isn't defamation, either. All PR guys are PR "hacks."

This seems like a statement of fact to me:


Sorry, but this dude was denying that he worked for Trummer's. He didn't even need to reveal his ID. He could have just said, "I'm doing some work with Trummer and want to tell you what's going on with the restaurant." He didn't do that. He pretended to be an anonymous diner and denied the fact that he had an agenda.


WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Diner Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Actually, if I were WTL, I would be a little
> > worried about a libel lawsuit. It seems to me
> > that if Wayne Rash discovers this thread, and
> is
> > litigation minded, he would have a pretty solid
> > case. WTL has repeatly accused him of posting
> > fictitious reviews, impersonating other users,
> and
> > stated that he works for the Trummer's. I can
> say
> > categorically, that he is not the same person
> as
> > Diner, and I think it's pretty clear that
> Brenda
> > is a different person altogether since she has
> a
> > record of posting on other websites using that
> > name. He has also called Mr. Rash a "PR hack".
> I
> > don't know if Mr. Rash works for the Trummer's
> or
> > not, but the evidence seems flimsy at best.
> Mr.
> > Rash would have a good argument that WTL's
> > statements have been harmful to his business,
> > thereby demonstrating material harm.
> >
> > In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel
> > (for written words), slander (for spoken
> words),
> > and vilification) is the communication of a
> > statement that makes a claim, expressly stated
> or
> > implied to be factual, that may give an
> > individual, business, product, group,
> government
> > or nation a negative image. It is usually, but
> not
> > always,[1] a requirement that this claim be
> false
> > and that the publication is communicated to
> > someone other than the person defamed (the
> > claimant).
> >
> >
>
> Read my comments. I didn't say anything to defame
> anyone. Writing "I bet anything" isn't the same
> thing as saying, "I know for a fact." And calling
> a PR guy a PR "hack" isn't defamation, either. All
> PR guys are PR "hacks."

Whatever. It's not libel and no one has been damaged. The only person repeatedly bringing it up is you, so, if you are not him, you would be contributing to whatever damage you claim is being done.

telat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For what it's worth - I live 10 minutes from
> Trummer's and not in Clifton - and I'm going to
> take the whole fence on your comment that the
> local populace sustains on KFC and McDonald's -
> you can take your arrogance and snotty nosed
> comments and keep them to yourself. As far as the
> choices made by restaurateurs - they've got big
> rocks to open any restaurant in this economy and
> as far as kinks - anyone knows that even Per Se
> had opening jitters - even with the ego and
> planning of Keller...

You mean to tell me that all those soccer moms don't feed their kids on KFC and McDonald's? What the hell is up with the KFC and McDonald's in Clifton/Centreville, then?

Ha--I'd like to see that defense in court. 'Whatever' usually isn't all that persuasive. Actually though, 'Ban Hammer' was the one that brought it up, not me. And I've been repeatly posting that Wayne Rash isn't Diner so I'm not sure why you think I'm somehow contributing to the damage.


WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever. It's not libel and no one has been
> damaged. The only person repeatedly bringing it up
> is you, so, if you are not him, you would be
> contributing to whatever damage you claim is being
> done.

Diner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ha--I'd like to see that defense in court.
> 'Whatever' usually isn't all that persuasive.
>

"Whatever" means that you don't have a point.

Article in yesterday's connection:

http://connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=330843&paper=85&cat=214

Maybe Wayne Rash is impersonating Bonnie Hobbs too. Just food for thought...

Well, I came to this site to talk about the restaurant, but instead found a bunch of EGOs slamming each other.
GROW UP!

So, with that said, here's my thoughts on the restaurant.
I went with a group of dear friends, and being hospitality management folks, we tried to not be over-critical.

Upon arrival, our greeting at the door was by a group of hot, petite hostesses all huddled behind a big desk. Could have come to the door to greet us, though. The onyz bar is truly impressive, as is the bar area, and the wine cellar, which you can glimpse at from the door.
Being escorted to our table via elevator, we sat in the Winter Garden, which was airy and cozy. I can't imagine it during the day, the heat must be extreme with all that glass!
We were greeted by our waitress in a rather interesting uniform; closed formal jacket with jeans!? Ok!?!? Breezing through the menu, prices seem fair, as we knew we had a skilled chef in the kitchen. The restaurant makes alot of their own things for sustainability; including their own sparkling water system, so we tried it. Good!
We all ordered different things, and enjoyed them all.
Favorites: Suckling Pig, Seared Foie Gras, Vanilla Pork Belly, Moonfish, Caramel Corn dessert.
Service was a little shakey. The management presence was of possible owners floating around (maybe)? I did see a redheaded woman in formal attire being very attentive, and greeted a few tables, and supported staff, but she was the only one of any management looking status. The staff seemed unsure and unstable unless she was present.
Maybe because the service is not of one solid style; French, but of a few different thrown together. This might be a NYC style? I haven't seen it there...Either way, it was a wonderful experience, and certainly a place we will return to, the food is well worth it.

This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"

This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"This was previously in the Winery in Clifton thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.


Here's the word on the restaurant that will be opening in the space that used to be the Hermitage:

Trummers on Main (formerly the Hermitage) restaurant
will open in November 2008. The restaurant will offer guests a completely
new dining experience with an extensive wine cellar and wine dining room, a
bar and lounge with creative cocktails and an elevator for guests to easily
access all three floors. The cuisine will be creative American with a focus
on using products from local farms and waters. Victoria Trummer says "We
look forward to serving the Clifton Community!"

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Does Cary's Ban Hammer have any strength? Are there any teeth in his new policy. It would appear that WashingToneLocian has violated a couple of the new policies, but is still permitted to post on this forum.

First Violation:
"ALSO from now on any thread or post which reveals or seeks to reveal a poster's real life identity against their wishes will be considered a personal attack and moderated as such."

I believe his intent to identify Diner in this thread clearly qualifies as a violation of this policy.

Second Violation:
"I'm also very concerned about legitimate threads in the Fairfax General forum becoming flamewars and disrupting the legitimate posters. Expect to see much heavier moderation of threads that stray from the original poster's intent."

Just a couple of days ago, he was the major flamer in a thread that took it completely off course. http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/213019.html


So, do these new policies have any enforcement mechanism? Perhaps a public shaming, week long supension, or outright ban? What's it going to be? Maybe he needs three strikes before he is "out."

Get lost already ya fucking faggot.


Banned By Popular Demand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does Cary's Ban Hammer have any strength? Are
> there any teeth in his new policy. It would
> appear that WashingToneLocian has violated a
> couple of the new policies, but is still permitted
> to post on this forum.
>
> First Violation:
> "ALSO from now on any thread or post which reveals
> or seeks to reveal a poster's real life identity
> against their wishes will be considered a personal
> attack and moderated as such."
>
> I believe his intent to identify Diner in this
> thread clearly qualifies as a violation of this
> policy.
>
> Second Violation:
> "I'm also very concerned about legitimate threads
> in the Fairfax General forum becoming flamewars
> and disrupting the legitimate posters. Expect to
> see much heavier moderation of threads that stray
> from the original poster's intent."
>
> Just a couple of days ago, he was the major flamer
> in a thread that took it completely off course.
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/213
> 019.html
>
>
> So, do these new policies have any enforcement
> mechanism? Perhaps a public shaming, week long
> supension, or outright ban? What's it going to
> be? Maybe he needs three strikes before he is
> "out."
>
>
>

Banned By Popular Demand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does Cary's Ban Hammer have any strength? Are
> there any teeth in his new policy. It would
> appear that WashingToneLocian has violated a
> couple of the new policies, but is still permitted
> to post on this forum.
>
>

It's Cary's forum and it is his prerogative. Overall, I have been a regular in good standing and my so-called attempt at outing was nothing on the scale of what the trolls had been doing on here before the new rules were put in place. As for taking the thread off-topic, it seems like the posts were all about Trummer's, so I'm not sure where that is coming from. If anything, you've been the one to take it off-topic.

But, regardless, if Cary feels he is justified in banning me, so be it. I would assume you would be banned as well for taking this thread off track, as well as other violations.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get lost already ya fucking faggot.

I would think that as a victim of an unwanted outing on this forum, you would support Cary's new policies. In fact, I would surmise the new policies came about because your true identity was revealed. If you are so strongly against them, simply tell him to restore the thread about you.

Oh, and "fucking faggot?" WTF, how long did you think on that one?

You might think you have people fooled.

But you don't.



Banned By Popular Demand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I would think that as a victim of an unwanted
> outing on this forum, you would support Cary's new
> policies. In fact, I would surmise the new
> policies came about because your true identity was
> revealed. If you are so strongly against them,
> simply tell him to restore the thread about you.
>
> Oh, and "fucking faggot?" WTF, how long did you
> think on that one?

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's Cary's forum and it is his prerogative.
> Overall, I have been a regular in good standing
> and my so-called attempt at outing was nothing on
> the scale of what the trolls had been doing on
> here before the new rules were put in place.

It is indeed a decision for Cary. You definitely tried to reveal the identity of Diner against his wishes, there is no doubt about it. I am not sure it matters if your outing measures up to the previous ones. As you mentioned, it is a decision for Cary.

> As for taking the thread off-topic, it seems like the
> posts were all about Trummer's, so I'm not sure
> where that is coming from. If anything, you've
> been the one to take it off-topic.

Look at the link posted, it is not about this thread.

> But, regardless, if Cary feels he is justified in
> banning me, so be it. I would assume you would be
> banned as well for taking this thread off track,
> as well as other violations.

Agreed. If he feels the need to ban me, fine. If he feels the need to ban you, fine.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You might think you have people fooled.
>
> But you don't.


I have at least one fooled. Care to guess who?

Banned By Popular Demand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Agreed. If he feels the need to ban me, fine. If
> he feels the need to ban you, fine.


Something tells me it wouldn't be the first time for you.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Something tells me it wouldn't be the first time for you.


+1

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Something tells me it wouldn't be the first time
> for you.
>
>
> +1


And you'd both be wrong. I know where the line is and have not crossed it. In that vain, I do not wish to violate Cary's derailing a thread admonsihment. If you'd like to discuss it further, start a thread in off topic and I will reply there.

So, now it appears I have at least two people fooled.

Do you have some kind of mental illness?


Banned By Popular Demand Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> And you'd both be wrong. I know where the line is
> and have not crossed it. In that vain, I do not
> wish to violate Cary's derailing a thread
> admonsihment. If you'd like to discuss it
> further, start a thread in off topic and I will
> reply there.
>
> So, now it appears I have at least two people
> fooled.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wayne Rash is a freelance PR hack living in Clifton.

and

> Seriously, Wayne. If you had just come on here and
> said, "I'm doing some work with Trummer's and want
> to invite you to check out their soft opening," I
> don't think people would have an issue. But the
> lying about your ID and intent are no good.


Summary of Virginia Law on Slander, Defamation and Libel

"Defamation per se" -- When the defamatory statement involves defamatory words that ... (3) impute unfitness to perform the duties of an office or employment, or want of integrity in the discharge of such duties ... you do not have to prove damages as they are presumed.


- If Wayne Rash did not post as Diner, I think there's a reasonable argument WTL defamed him under Virginia law, in that calling someone a liar certainly suggests an imputation of a want of integrity in employment.

As for enforcing a subpoena against Fairfax Underground to reveal information relating to WTL's identity, a quick search did not reveal an on-point case in VA, but the cases in this evolving area of the law suggest a subpoena would be enforced where the plaintiff has a valid cause of action for defamation (see, e.g., Brodie in MD, and Cahill in DE).

Perhaps Phillip Leiser would take the case, as defamation is one of his practice areas, and I suspect he would take no small pleasure in enforcing a subpoena against Fairfax Underground.

Do you have his number handy, Meep?

Ham Banner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wayne Rash is a freelance PR hack living in
> Clifton.
>
> and
>
> > Seriously, Wayne. If you had just come on here
> and
> > said, "I'm doing some work with Trummer's and
> want
> > to invite you to check out their soft opening,"
> I
> > don't think people would have an issue. But the
> > lying about your ID and intent are no good.
>
>
> Summary of Virginia Law on Slander, Defamation and
> Libel
>
> "Defamation per se" -- When the defamatory
> statement involves defamatory words that ... (3)
> impute unfitness to perform the duties of an
> office or employment, or want of integrity in the
> discharge of such duties ... you do not have to
> prove damages as they are presumed.
>
>
> - If Wayne Rash did not post as Diner, I think
> there's a reasonable argument WTL defamed him
> under Virginia law, in that calling someone a liar
> certainly suggests an imputation of a want of
> integrity in employment.
>
> As for enforcing a subpoena against Fairfax
> Underground to reveal information relating to
> WTL's identity, a quick search did not reveal an
> on-point case in VA, but the cases in this
> evolving area of the law suggest a subpoena would
> be enforced where the plaintiff has a valid cause
> of action for defamation (see, e.g., Brodie in MD,
> and Cahill in DE).
>
> Perhaps Phillip Leiser would take the case, as
> defamation is one of his practice areas, and I
> suspect he would take no small pleasure in
> enforcing a subpoena against Fairfax Underground.
>
> Do you have his number handy, Meep?



You're stupid.

Ham Banner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Summary of Virginia Law on Slander, Defamation and
> Libel
>


I've actually considered suing someone for slander and libel once. There's a pretty high threshold you have to meet just to prove an intent to libel or slander. Then, you have to reach an even higher standard to claim damages. Any comments I made here do not come anywhere near any kind of threshold and there are certainly no damages as a result.

Banned By Popular Demand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheMeeper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > Something tells me it wouldn't be the first
> time
> > for you.
> >
> >
> > +1
>
>
> And you'd both be wrong. I know where the line is
> and have not crossed it. In that vain, I do not
> wish to violate Cary's derailing a thread
> admonsihment. If you'd like to discuss it
> further, start a thread in off topic and I will
> reply there.
>
> So, now it appears I have at least two people
> fooled.

Boo!

As noted above, damages are presumed in the "defamation per se" context.

>I've actually considered suing someone for slander and libel once. There's a pretty high threshold you have to meet just to prove an intent to libel or slander.<

Nor do you have to prove intent in the defamation per se context.

http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/virginia-defamation-law

There is almost always a defense for defamation if you say your statement is not a FACT, but an OPINION.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2010 02:16PM by Jive Turkey.

I received a two for one coupon for an upper decker sandwich, the writing is on the wall once coupons are currency.

Compare and contrast the review of Trummers by Diner on FU, with the one by wrash on DonRockwell.com.

Whaddya think? Do we have a match?

Dare I say, bingo?

I would note that both Diner ("Grilled Romaine salad") and wrash ("grilled romaine salad") had the same appetizer, but different entrees, drinks, and deserts.

Furthermore, the two reviews are clearly not a straight copy-and-paste job.

And yet... one little detail jumped out at me.

In their respective reviews, both Diner and wrash use a rather unusual word.

Both, in describing their food (the pig in Diner's case, the salad in wrash's), use the word "deconstructed".

Now that could be just a fluke. But rather in the way a determined researcher discovered the identity of Goatse by carefully matching the pattern of moles on his ass [NSFW!!!] with pictures posted on other bulletin boards, or a single button can suffice to put a man in San Quentin, there seems to me something more than mere coincidence going on here.

A certain similarity - a flavor, if you will - in the respective writing styles, combined with that curious use of the idiosyncratic word deconstructed in a food review, in my opinion points to the conclusion that Diner and wrash are one and the same person.

Would I say this is established beyond a reasonable doubt? No, I don't think the evidence is that strong.

But take a look for yourself, as Diner has suggested, and be your own judge.


Post by Diner on FU, July 14, 7:57AM

I had dinner there last night and would highly recommend others give it a try. I will never understand why so many seem to root for failure instead of appreciating the risk and great effort when someone attempts to provide a unique dining experience where we have so few options outside the usual chains. Regardless, here is my take:

I started with the Grilled Romaine salad. This is an interesting twist on the classic Caesar salad. An entire head of baby Romaine lettuce is lightly grilled--the lettuce is still crisp but the grilling gives it a smoky, charred flavor. The lettuce is topped with small pieces of dried lemon zest that have a surprising amount of flavor. Alongside the lettuce is a single poached egg. The egg white is cooked through--but not overdone--and the yolk is still liquid so that when you break open the egg you have a rich, warm sauce to dip the lettuce, croutons, or bread in. Anchovy sauce is served on the plate--another nod to the Caesar. Freshly baked bread--still warm--is served at the table with a soft, creamy butter that has been topped with salt flakes.

For my main course I had the Tempranillo braised Lamb shoulder and shank. Tender and flavorful, this was served in an interesting presentation where the pieces had been stacked in sort of a square and topped with olives, toasted bread slices and a few drops of Balsamic. This could have been slightly more moist and could possibly benefit from a sauce or reduction of some kind. The dish overall was well executed though, and contrary to what I've read in some other posts, portion sizes are not too small. Between the salad, bread, and lamb I was quite full.

I finished with the peach sorbet for dessert. This was a single scoop of house made peach sorbet floating in a cream sauce of some sort that had been infused with basil. I didn't get a lot of basil flavor, but the peach sorbet was delicious. At $5 I found that to be very reasonably priced.

Others at my table had the suckling pig and the moonfish. The suckling pig is now being offered for one and it isn't as intimidating as it might sound. The pig has been deconstructed in the kitchen and several different cuts are served. The cheeks had the most interesting flavor and were moist and tasty. Other pieces had crispy pieces of skin that give it a nice crunch. Another word about portion sizes--if you have a large appetite go more for the meat dishes and stay away from the fish. I could see where a hearty eater might be disappointed with the size of the pieces of fish. They weren't tiny, and with a first course and dessert should be plenty, but the meat dishes definitely had more food.

All in all, it was a very nice experience. I talked some with the Trummer's and it sounds like they have some interesting plans. Fixed price tasting menus, brunch, and wine pairings are all on the way. The naysayers here are underestimating what they have accomplished. Give it a try and be your own judge.

========================================================

Posts by wrash on DonRockwell.com

July 8, 2009, 2:19PM (Opening post in thread)
I just got an invitation from the folks who run Trummers on Main in Clifton to their soft opening this week. I plan to go there for dinner on Friday evening. The actual soft opening starts today with the real opening on Monday 7/13/09. The Web site is here: http://www.trummersonmain.com/ and there's a blog site by the owners here: http://www.stefantru.../blog-text.htm. With a chef from the French Laundry, maybe this will be a nice place.

I'll file a full report after I visit the place, unless someone else gets there first. The number for reservations is 703.266.1623.

One warning, neither Web site above is up to date. clearly the owners have been spending their time making the restaurant work.

Wayne Rash

-----------------------

July 10, 8:56PM
Despite the official word that Trummers on Main will open on Monday, the soft opening is indeed underway. My wife and I ate dinner there tonight. The restaurant replaces the not-very-lamented Hermitage. The new owners have clearly focused a great deal of attention to the decor. It's open, light and comfortable without being stuffy. The noise levels were a bit higher than I'd like, given that the tables were only about half full. Just putting table cloths on the tables would probably solve that issue.

The menu, at least during the soft opening is limited to eight appetizers and eight entrees. The appetizers are creative and well executed (at least what I tried). The entrees are heavy on fish, with one item each of pork, beef, lamb and chicken. The wine list is quite good with a broad selection of American and European wines as well as wine from everyplace else. They have the old standbys, but also a number of wine choices that I haven't seen elsewhere. It's a nice change. Wine by the bottle is reasonably priced, but wine by the glass is a little steeper than I think it should be.

Stefan Trummer, who owns the restaurant with his wife, is apparently a legendary bartender from New York. Unfortunately, I don't know how he does, because our pre-dinner cocktails never arrived. My wife ordered a brandy alexander, and that apparently caused consternation among the bar staff, one of whom came to the table to ask if we wanted our brandy on the rocks.

The appetizers arrived on time. I had the grilled romaine salad, which is served with pecerino cheese, anchovy dressing and a poached egg. I guess the idea was a grilled deconstructed Caesar salad. Quite honestly, I prefer this approach. It's the first time I've had a salad with a poached egg in quite this way, but the effect is quite nice. The anchovy dressing really delivers the Caesar feeling without being overbearing. My wife had the Mahi Mahi Pastrami which is served with melon balls and a refreshing and very light dressing that I'm at a loss to identify. But it was different from any Mahi Mahi that I've ever had. I'll have to have an entire appetizer next time and figure out the recipe. Unfortunately, my wife wouldn't allow me more than just one small bite.

We both ended up having the pan roasted skate wing for dinner. Unlike my recent misadventures in the name of seafood, this one was perfectly cooked. It's served with a tapenade-like olive side, red pepper sauce, porcini mushrooms and what the restaurant calls "corn puddin'." My only complaint is minor - I'd be happier if they could tone down the salt on the fish slightly. The regret I have is that there wasn't more of the "corn puddin'" on the plate. It's just a thin layer beneath one part of the skate wing (the red pepper sauce is underneath the other half). I'd also have liked it if there had been a little more to eat on the plate - perhaps a roasted fingerling potato or something. All that you get is the fish and the sauces. I felt like the plate needed completion.

Trummer's makes their own ice cream, so I kept it simple by ordering vanilla. This is made in-house and uses two different types of vanilla, but I couldn't find out what those types might be. The owner also sent over another dessert to make up for the cocktail problem. This was chocolate soup - a composed dish with chocolate cake, milk sorbet, meringue and chocolate sauce. Both desserts were well made, short on goo but long on flavor, and nicely presented.

As you might expect, the service was best described as variable. You already know about the missing cocktails. The bread guy clearly hadn't done that job before this week. He was pleasant, but oh-so-deliberate. The waitress on the other hand, despite being quite young, clearly knew what she was doing, she delivered the food on time, kept up with the progress at dinner, and didn't rush us or make us wait. She also wasn't intrusive, but offered what she knew of the menu when asked, and her opinions were apparently based on knowledge. So the service was better than I'd expected, and the execution of the food was much better.

My wife said that the atmosphere reminded her of Windows in Rosslyn (for those of you who have been around for a really long time). The room we ate in was light and airy, we had a nice view of downtown Clifton, and the whole tone was comfortable and unhurried without being slow.

I feel certain that the service will improve. The cooking is already up to standard, and I'll go back.

Prices are moderate. Both of us had dinner including appetizers and wine, for about a hundred dollars.

I think this restaurant deserves a serious look at a close-by spot worth the time and money. I'll be back there again.

Wayne Rash

Sigh. The word "deconstructed" is only unusual if you have no knowledge about food. It's really quite common when used to describe modern dishes. Trust me, Diner is not the same person as Rash.


Ham Banner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Compare and contrast the review of Trummers by
> Diner on FU, with the one by wrash on
> DonRockwell.com.
>
> Whaddya think? Do we have a match?
>
> Dare I say, bingo?
>
> I would note that both Diner ("Grilled Romaine
> salad") and wrash ("grilled romaine salad") had
> the same appetizer, but different entrees, drinks,
> and deserts.
>
> Furthermore, the two reviews are clearly not a
> straight copy-and-paste job.
>
> And yet... one little detail jumped out at me.
>
> In their respective reviews, both Diner and wrash
> use a rather unusual word.
>
> Both, in describing their food (the pig in Diner's
> case, the salad in wrash's), use the word
> "deconstructed".

>Sigh. The word "deconstructed" is only unusual if you have no knowledge about food. It's really quite common when used to describe modern dishes.<

Okay, fair enough. I see you're quite right about that. A quick search indicates that the term "deconstructed" is surprisingly commonplace in contemporary food reviews. Indeed, it appears to have risen to the level, almost, of cliche.

http://events.nytimes.com/recipes/7114/2004/04/25/Oysters-Rockefeller-Deconstructed/recipe.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/dining/01appe.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/dining/12pickle.html

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/recipes/2009/06/15/deconstructed-summer-borscht/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36583-2004Jul8.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45890-2005Feb23.html


There is still that certain flavor I mentioned, but that's a rather slim reed to hang a conclusion on. I am loathe to cast unwarranted aspersions on anyone, and in particular someone, like Mr. Rash, whose livelihood might conceivably be affected by my remarks.

Accordingly, I retract the conclusion asserted in my prior post, and retreat to a position of agnosticism on this matter, where I am likely to remain.

Ham Banner,

It doesn't seem to be the same writer to me at all. And as you already noted, deconstructed is often the way they refer to meat cut by the kitchen.

Though I live in Clifton, I can't say that I am interested yet in Trummer's.

o Though the place looks nice and trendy, it is in a historic town and the owners seem to want it to be in New York. It is losing the feel of the historic inn where Ulysses S Grant stayed.

I find it bothersome that the direction of their marketing focuses so strongly on the historic location and the local sources. To be fair, they are clear on their website when they say”
o Where New York Meets Main Street
o the first New York restaurateurs to bring a restaurant to Clifton
o fabulous food and attentive service generally found in big food cities

My impression is that small towns are known for their attentive service not big cities. Fabulous food can be found either place.

o I see here and hear in town lots of local talk of bad service.

o The menu seems like it works to hard. To be fair I haven’t tried it, but I don’t like the idea of fried lettuce and a runny egg. I prefer a more traditional Caesar salad.

Inn at Little Washington works because the food and the location fit together.

o I agree with the multiple comments that if they are going to tout how they use local ingredients they should use local ingredients. Including a listing of local wines. How about the local Clifton Winery?

>The cuisine will be creative American with a focus on using products from local
>farms and waters.

“We try to be sustainable, using local products,” said Stefan Trummer.

Things that don’t sound local
o North Carolina Outer Banks Flounder
o Japanese citrus
o white soy
o Rhode Island Rockfish
o Hawaiian Open Ocean Moonfish
o chimichurri verde (Argentina)
o Tempranillo (Spain) Braised Lamb Shoulder and Shank
o Pecerino (Italian) cheese
o “ham plate” – La Quercia Farm . proscuitto . Iowa

I plan to, and I am looking forward to trying Trummer’s but we both might need a little time.

Another_Cliftonite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is losing the feel of the historic
> inn where Ulysses S Grant stayed.


Eff Ulysses S. Grant, and the horse he rode in on.

What? Lost the war and the election too?

GTFO.

Ham Banner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Sigh. The word "deconstructed" is only unusual
> if you have no knowledge about food. It's really
> quite common when used to describe modern
> dishes.<
>
> Okay, fair enough. I see you're quite right about
> that. A quick search indicates that the term
> "deconstructed" is surprisingly commonplace in
> contemporary food reviews. Indeed, it appears to
> have risen to the level, almost, of cliche.
>
> http://events.nytimes.com/recipes/7114/2004/04/25/
> Oysters-Rockefeller-Deconstructed/recipe.html
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/dining/01appe.ht
> ml
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/dining/12pickle.
> html
>
> http://projects.washingtonpost.com/recipes/2009/06
> /15/deconstructed-summer-borscht/
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A365
> 83-2004Jul8.html
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A458
> 90-2005Feb23.html
>
>
> There is still that certain flavor I mentioned,
> but that's a rather slim reed to hang a conclusion
> on. I am loathe to cast unwarranted aspersions on
> anyone, and in particular someone, like Mr. Rash,
> whose livelihood might conceivably be affected by
> my remarks.
>
> Accordingly, I retract the conclusion asserted in
> my prior post, and retreat to a position of
> agnosticism on this matter, where I am likely to
> remain.

Do you always speak in fag talk?
Attachments:

Do you always listen out for fag talk?

You bet you do.

Hello?!?!?!
Isn't this thread supposed to be about the restaurant?
What happened?
**POOF!**

Well, I returned last night with another hotel management friend of mine in from NYC for dinner, and I gotta say....disaster....maybe it's the growing pains of opening a new place, but the staff need to get on top of things!
Food took a while, staff barely there (compared to my first visit), and then when they were, it was beyond shakey! I had the wrong water poured into my glass 2 different times, then the wrong food was delivered completely, and when our food arrived, our dishes were switched. Food was great, just took too long.
The mood seemed stressed.
What's going on at Trummer's?
I didn't see the redhead floating around tonite, maybe her night off?! They need her to pull the team together!
Wine list was spectacular, and we enjoyed watching the drama unfold.
Will have more to say next visit!

All restaurants in the Exurbs have problems with "the help." Unlike DC or Manhattan, where you have people who have made a career out of working in a restaurant, most of the people waiting tables in the outlying suburbs are either college students or service workers who recently lost their job at the Burlington Coat Factory. No matter how good the place may be in terms of food or atmosphere, you can expect that service will be uneven as long as it is located outside the Beltway (except for Sweetwater, which has immaculate service almost every time).

Well Hello All!
Sorry, but I have been out in California and Oregon for the past month-ish visiting family. I see things have come along nicely both with the restaurant opening, and the BLOGGING in here.
I HAVE been in to eat at Trummer's and I am impressed with the food and drink.
I am hoping that the Chef does change up the menu maybe monthly with something new, as the 'regulars' might find the decadent food to be a bit complacent in a short while. The Vanilla Pork Belly and Opakapaka (Moonfish) were my favorites indeed!

Real quick...
Appetizers (summer vegetable salad) 5 of 5 stars
Definately the winner here. The mushrooms are perfect in this dish and recommended for people who usually dislike mushrooms. Potatoes were cooked to perfection. I wish I'd have ordered it in entrée size.

Entrée (tomato water risotto) 2.5 of 5 stars
This dish needs improvement and was a big disapointment. I let four people try it and same response... tasted fermented. I'm not sure if vinegar is added but he went over board. Something I don't expect, but I'd like someone to try the appetizer portion of this and type their response.
Dessert 3 of 5 stars
Didn't have peach sorbet (which took 20 minutes to find out?!)
The ice cream I didn't order was fantastic. Coconut sorbet, I forgot it had coconut in it! Still it was good. I've had better espresso in cheap places.
Service TBD (to be determined) As of now it needs improvement.

20$ a glass of champagne and three glasses. I don't recall them listing price but it wasn't bad. 5of5 stars on the drink selection.

Atmosphere: Very well done... absolutely beautiful and stunning bar. Which was packed by the end of the night. I'm guessing thats how they will survive in this state of recession. Love the roof great job. The place looks fantastic overall.

Overall I give 4 out of 5. Thats pretty generous considering the terrible entrée and mediocre desert. (Although I guess I could have made a better selection.) I loved the bar snacks. We got the chips and honey dipped.. things. Both very delicious. Would've been five with better risotto. ;)

Decadent food lets try pretentious and over the top and trying to impress folks with llbs and jds after their name.

The Clifton area needs a great restaurant not a snobby over the top joint with owners who are trying to bring the French Laundry and Manhattan to Clifton.

Use local produce, beef, pork, seafood and wine and prepare it simply. We dont need pickled veggies and serve w/ VA wines.

Take the best of this area and prepare it simply with outstanding service.

Trummer's being NYC transplants and very young just don't have the experience.

What happened to serving the best the local area had to offer?

When you kitchen can't turn out a ribeye medium rare and your staff has no clue where the beef is from you are in trouble.

Peterson's has ice cream make's is far superior to Trummer's. Trummer's taste like ice milk from the Giant.

Omar

On what planet is $20 a glass for champagne is acceptable?

must be nice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On what planet is $20 a glass for champagne is
> acceptable?


It's acceptable but stupid. That will only fly so long in Clifton.

I don't drink champagne out usually. And never by the glass since the chances of it being stored properly and kept at the proper temp is nil.
And usually the selection of champagnes at most restaurants is predictable a Moet, Veuve,a Domaine Chandon and couple other Cali non vintages. On the vintage side Dom and Cristal.

No Tattinger or Pol Roger or any of the small champagne houses.

Only vintage wine from France i buy these days is several cases of Pol Roger Winston Churchill.

20 a pop for a glass of champagne is just as stupid as paying $12 or mor for a martini.

And please why is organic a big deal in cocktail. You can't taste the difference.

Omar

Great Experience.
Place looked beautiful.
Exterior complimented the Clifton atmosphere.
Interior was new and exciting.
Friendly staff.
Best 3 plus hours ever spent on dining.

omarthetentmaker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Use local produce, beef, pork, seafood and wine
> and prepare it simply. We dont need pickled
> veggies and serve w/ VA wines.
>
> Take the best of this area and prepare it simply
> with outstanding service.

I hope your "recipe for success" isn't the same on the hermitage was using. I only ate there once, but the place was empty. At least it sounds like trummers is bringing in some business.

You do have to admit...despite the attitude, bad service and inflated price their parking lot is full of cars.

Another_Cliftonite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You do have to admit...despite the attitude, bad
> service and inflated price their parking lot is
> full of cars.


That will change in a month or two, once the novelty has worn off.

I found this website and thread on Google searching for Trummer's on Main.

I surprised that so many of you are cheering for the restaurant to fail.

Jason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I surprised that so many of you are cheering for
> the restaurant to fail.

Well many Historic Clifton residents are resistant to change. They prefer small town charm, perhaps to the point of forgetting what county they live in.

Then there are those inside the beltway that don't believe that civilization exists outside of 495.

Then we have the realists that know many restaurants fail within the first few years. The hermitage wasn't exactly bustling which could indicate location is a problem. Not to mention the debt from construction and the current economy. I will withhold comment on their menu and pricing until I have eaten there once or twice, but it sounds like there are mixed reviews.

I personally hope they succeed, but it sounds like they have a lot of challenges.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2009 08:24AM by Genevieve.

Jason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I surprised that so many of you are cheering for
> the restaurant to fail.

Jason,

I truly hope they succeed. But I also hope they change.

Jason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I surprised that so many of you are cheering for
> the restaurant to fail.


Pointing out what appears to be bad business decisions isn't "cheering for the restaurant to fail." I think they are right with going with the lower-priced menu options and focusing on the bar. However, I think the ridiculously large and expensive build out of the building was a mistake given the place's location. Also, regardless of where the money for the place came from - bank or family - someone is going to expect to be paid back at some point.

We will see if it succeeds. However, it sounds like they have issues with service that they need to address pretty quickly.

I hope this restaurant succeeds, because the food is defanitely worth it!
I read back in some recent comments, and I LOVE the ice creams! Our table had 3 different flavors, and they were all one of a kind in taste!
We also had 2 of the tomato risottos and they were both a bit vinegary (is that a word?). But, vinegar aside, I can see where one guest might taste it like its a bit fermented. I think it's the balsamic in it that makes it kinda taste that way, but it's good!
There was some stressed staff. The location of our table was near where some of the staff would gather, and without divulging too much, the drama sounded like there are WAY more issues going on than any guest should hear!
Management needs to get control, and MANAGE. Idle hands lead to idle minds. Service needs work. Maybe the service style shouldn't be so cheesy at an attempt at a formal style, but a nice relaxed service style, so that EVERYONE could enjhoy their meal. Good luck.
Likelihood to return 3 out of 5

Hopefully they will get their act together.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2009 08:41PM by WashingTone-Locian.

noticed that the reservations arereally low.
parking lot isn't FULL anymore.
cuirous.
i wonder how they are paying all that staff with no business.

well.. most restaurants around here live and die by the weekend and most new businesses use seed money to operate while they wait for profits...

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well.. most restaurants around here live and die
> by the weekend and most new businesses use seed
> money to operate while they wait for profits...



That, or maybe the novelty is already wearing off.

When I drove by last night around 9:30pm it seemed like the lot was pretty full.

Remember they share the parking lot with the church. Lot wasn't full last night at 745pm when we went for ice cream at Peterson's.

Omar

Omar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Remember they share the parking lot with the
> church. Lot wasn't full last night at 745pm when
> we went for ice cream at Peterson's.
>
> Omar


I think the gravel parking lot is for the help and the paved parking lot is for the customers. The gravel parking lot is usually fuller than the paved one.

Several of us went to Trummer's to try out Clifton's newest restaurant. My husband and I were hoping for a new place to celebrate birthdays, anniversaries, etc. The service was ok-hopefully it will improve. Busboys, servers were sort of wandering around without knowing who ordered what or where they were going. On the plus side, our waitress was attentive and the renovations beautiful. However, pretentious is the only word I would use to describe the food, Fancy presentations, little food. An appetizer that could be eaten in two bites wasn't worth the $$. Everyone agreed the main courses were ok-nothing special. Again, the desserts were basically two or three bites. We left hungry. I doubt we will go again. There just wasn't any wow factor to go along with the hype.

Honestly, I just don't understand some people. You went to a restaurant expecting FOOD? Don't you know you're paying 40 dollars an entree for the atmosphere?

I hope Trummers on the main put's Heart and Hand out of business. Heart and hand really sucks, The place is a rip off. It is also full of mice. The owner is a crazy bitch. Her husband is a nice enough guy. The orginal owners were good. The health department needs to pat them a surprise visit. The tent they use for parties is full of holes. THey put out traps. Still it is really a dirty place.

My husband and I went to Trummer's on Main last night and it was fantastic! I had the Moonfish which was delicious and very filling- I couldn't finish my plate. My husband had the lamb which, although was slightly overcooked, had a subtle flavoring that we enjoyed. For dessert we shared the poached fig- an unusual and exotic delicacy. Overall it was a very romantic evening created by sensual atmosphere and a welcoming staff. I look forward to sampling their brunch menu

Announcing Continental Bar Breakfast & Brunch......Beginning Sunday, August 9th !!!!

Main Street will have more to talk about this weekend as Trummer's On Main launches their creative brunch menu on Sunday, August 9th. Executive Chef Clayton Miller and Pastry Chef Chris Ford have come together utilizing their creative American repertoire to craft a menu that showcases down home favorites in flavor and design.
Trummer's On Main will offer two menus: Trummer's Brunch, a three-course breakfast feast for $28 per person, and the Continental Bar Breakfast, at $12 per person, a perfect start for someone on the go. For the little ones, Trummer's will also be offering a special Kids' Brunch Menu for $14, featuring favorites such as fluffy pancakes, scrambled eggs and French toast. Also available on the beverage menu will be a 'Smoothie of the Day' and vegetable juices including Carrot-Ginger and Apple-Carrot, all made fresh to order using the in-house juice machine set in view at the bar.

OMG I wish the wedding I went to today was at Trummers instead of Heart In Hand. Heart In Hand was so gross. You should see the tent that they had us in. As one post I read stated it is full of holes. How GROSS. They should get a visit from the health Department. If and when I get married Heart In Hand will not be my choice. What a dive, Clifton wake up. Make your shabby Heart IN Hand clean up it's act. It makes your cute town look bad.

jessy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------





theres no possibility of an alterior motive here is there?

I noticed some positive changes to their menu. Prices have come down a bit and the new dishes don't seem to try so hard.

So far I've heard a lot of good reviews of the Moonfish. At $34, The rib eye is the most expensive thing on the menu. I've also heard that the bar menu is the better than the dinner menu.

Rhode Island Flounder-steamed
pickled garden vegetables . japanese citrus . white soy
24

Alaskan Wild Coho Salmon – grilled
braised pole beans . tomato sofritto . tomato caponata
26

Hawaiian Open Ocean Moonfish-grilled**
tamarind glaze . cauliflower . peanuts . scallions
32

North Atlantic Skate-pan roasted
crushed black olive . smoked corn pudd’in . maitake mushrooms . red pepper juice
22


Beef Rib Eye**
rosemary parsnips . king trumpet mushrooms . red wine jus
34

Roasted Farm Chicken
green asparagus slaw . piquillo peppers . english peas
19

Beef Brisket
fried grits . coleslaw marmalade . watermelon . bourbon BBQ
19

Woodsboro, Maryland Suckling Pig
brussels sprouts . sweet potato . mustard jus
32

This place is in trouble already. Brunch? Special offers for the rug rats? Anybody remember Alto Plaza opening up for brunch after they got massacred by Tom Shales and hit the skids?

A kid's menu? And here I was an asshole for saying that Clifton was full of soccer moms who spent most of their time taking the kids to KFC and McDonalds. As I said before, Clifton doesn't have the right demographics to sustain a place that touts itself as a little bit of Manhattan in NoVA. Does this mean people are going to start dragging their brats to the 7pm dinner service? Can I wear a wife beater and flip flops, too?

I'm heading over there shortly to check out the brunch. I will report back with my thoughts. WTL, why don't you stfu until you've at least checked out the place in person?

burp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This place is in trouble already. Brunch?
> Special offers for the rug rats? Anybody remember
> Alto Plaza opening up for brunch after they got
> massacred by Tom Shales and hit the skids?


Tom Shales, the TV critic? What did he do, criticize them for showing sporting events in the bar?

We had dinner at the Heart in Hand about 15 years ago. The food was ok, but had the worst service we ever had. We have never been back and we live in the area. Sounds like it has not improved. Wonder how they stay in business. I never figured out what Nancy Reagan saw in the place.

I stand corrected, it was Tom Sietsema of WaPo that canned Alto Plaza.

Diner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm heading over there shortly to check out the
> brunch. I will report back with my thoughts.
> WTL, why don't you stfu until you've at least
> checked out the place in person?


Based on these reviews, I won't have time to.

Well, whatever--it doesn't really sound like you are their target demographic.


WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Diner Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm heading over there shortly to check out the
> > brunch. I will report back with my thoughts.
> > WTL, why don't you stfu until you've at least
> > checked out the place in person?
>
>
> Based on these reviews, I won't have time to.

Foodie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Announcing Continental Bar Breakfast &
> Brunch......Beginning Sunday, August 9th !!!!
>
> Main Street will have more to talk about this
> weekend as Trummer's On Main launches their
> creative brunch menu on Sunday, August 9th.
> Executive Chef Clayton Miller and Pastry Chef
> Chris Ford have come together utilizing their
> creative American repertoire to craft a menu that
> showcases down home favorites in flavor and
> design.
> Trummer's On Main will offer two menus: Trummer's
> Brunch, a three-course breakfast feast for $28 per
> person, and the Continental Bar Breakfast, at $12
> per person, a perfect start for someone on the go.
> For the little ones, Trummer's will also be
> offering a special Kids' Brunch Menu for $14,
> featuring favorites such as fluffy pancakes,
> scrambled eggs and French toast. Also available on
> the beverage menu will be a 'Smoothie of the Day'
> and vegetable juices including Carrot-Ginger and
> Apple-Carrot, all made fresh to order using the
> in-house juice machine set in view at the bar.



does this strike anyone else as marketing copy? considering the timing?

brunch was always a part of this restaurant's plans, but it appears they are experiencing a personality disorder.

how can a venue successfully combine the manhattan hip single/young married scene with the clifton/centreville kid-centered universe? a kids menu for brunch? please.

better yet, do the math:

3-course brunch for 2: $56.00 (without drinks?)

how much are the smoothies/fresh squeezed/organic liquid brunch offerings going to set one back? (based on the posts re per glass wine prices i shudder to think about it). is coffee/tea included in these prices? probably not.

continental brunch buffet for 2: $24.00 (without drinks?)

2 kids menu: $28 (without drinks?).


so the minimum two-adult/two-kid tab would be $52.00 + drinks + tip.

on the other hand,
two 3-course brunches/two-kid tab would be $84.00 + drinks + tip.

a regular weekly/monthly family outlay? not likely. anyway, need to be at soccer games on sunday by 8 am.

no matter how delicious, unusual or chichi the brunch menu is, if the atmosphere/environment is dissimilar to that which the venue offers during the rest of its operating hours, a potential regular patron might not appreciate such changes for brunch.

in all of the photographs of trummer working at various manhattan venues, i did not notice any kids hanging out with indulgent imbibing parents.

and no, i am not anti-kid. i think a kid's menu for dinner would be a fine idea. i personally do not believe my kids would appreciate the food, but i am sure there are many who would.

i am making an observation about an apparent identity crisis; one that has at least two sources: location and target audience. this venue's web site/make-over/menu/staffing all screams upscale/sophistication/$$$$ = adult. and not just any adult....but those who consider manhattan a location worthy of emulation in clifton.

last time i checked, Per Se (thomas keller's ny venue) listed its tasting menu at $275/person. if you check on the French Laundry web site you can see a picture of a salad that looks (un)surprisingly similar to one that was served at trummers.

yes, there were (who knows now) plans to offer a tasting menu at trummers.

scuttlebutt at coastal flats last weekend was pointedly negative about trummers. general consensus was that their pants were on way too tight. but then mikes american fans may not be the audience trummers was/is aiming for.

i just wish trummers would put aside their manhattan orientation and star-chef ambitions, figure out where in the world they are and be a great local restaurant. buy local produce/meat/fish/poultry; adjust menus frequently based on what's available and make wonderful food. the diners (and their kids) would come. just don't need all of the attitude.

another clifton resident wrote:

>i just wish trummers would put aside their manhattan orientation and star-chef
>ambitions, figure out where in the world they are and be a great local
>restaurant. buy local produce/meat/fish/poultry; adjust menus frequently
>based on what's available and make wonderful food. the diners (and their kids)
> would come. just don't need all of the attitude.

That is the place I want to go to!

You people who pay to eat there should see what goes on in the back.

Been there worked there Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You people who pay to eat there should see what
> goes on in the back.


You're treading perilously close to libel with this remark.

Although a Maryland court recently issued a ruling offering a narrow zone of protection to anonymous commenters who made rather similar remarks about an allegedly unsanitary Dunkin' Donuts http://www.citmedialaw.org/threats/brodie-v-independent-newspapers-inc-lawsuit, there's no guarantee Virginia courts (which I am not aware have addressed the issue) will be similarly generous in their conclusions; there is also the matter of the legal fees that would potentially be incurred regardless of whether a court ultimately ruled in your favor (the burden of those fees would fall initially on Cary, btw, who would seem ill-positioned to afford them unlike the newspaper chain defendant in the Maryland case).

FYI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Been there worked there Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You people who pay to eat there should see what
> > goes on in the back.
>
>


Really? If you look at the statement, the poster doesn't say anything inflammatory. You are inferring something.

>Really? If you look at the statement, the poster doesn't say anything inflammatory. You are inferring something.<

It's quite true that I'm inferring something. But under Virginia law (and defamation law generally) statements may be defamatory by implication, inference, innuendo, or insinuation. http://www.robertslaw.org/slander-libel-defamation.htm

Arguably, a reasonable person could interpret the above remark as derogatory, as casting an implied aspersion as to "what goes on in the back" of Trummers. I don't think that's an unreasonable reading. I can hardly imagine that post would encourage anyone to eat at Trummers; I could well imagine that it might discourage someone from doing so.

As such, I think it treads perilously close to libel.

At the same time, I acknowledge that reasonable minds might differ about the inferences to be drawn from the remark. And that's fine.

But it would appear the folks behind Trummers are quite wealthy; whether they are litigious (like the Maryland Dunkin' Donuts owner), I don't know. But if they are, they could afford to pursue litigation that would be very expensive indeed for the party on the receiving end. Why expose oneself to such a risk? I wouldn't, but others can decide for themselves.

The poster that wrote that comment was actually referring to the Heart in Hand, not Trummer's. Note that they changed the subject to 'RE: Heart in Hand' (I'm changing it back). I was able to take a tour of the kitchen at Trummer's, and it is quite clean and professional, as you would expect from caliber of chef they hired. I don't know anything about conditions at Heart in Hand, but I thought the confusion should be cleared up. If somebody has comments to make about Heart in Hand they really should start a different thread.


FYI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Really? If you look at the statement, the poster
> doesn't say anything inflammatory. You are
> inferring something.<
>
> It's quite true that I'm inferring something. But
> under Virginia law (and defamation law generally)
> statements may be defamatory by implication,
> inference, innuendo, or insinuation.
> http://www.robertslaw.org/slander-libel-defamation
> .htm
>
> Arguably, a reasonable person could interpret the
> above remark as derogatory, as casting an implied
> aspersion as to "what goes on in the back" of
> Trummers. I don't think that's an unreasonable
> reading. I can hardly imagine that post would
> encourage anyone to eat at Trummers; I could well
> imagine that it might discourage someone from
> doing so.
>
> As such, I think it treads perilously close to
> libel.
>
> At the same time, I acknowledge that reasonable
> minds might differ about the inferences to be
> drawn from the remark. And that's fine.
>
> But it would appear the folks behind Trummers are
> quite wealthy; whether they are litigious (like
> the Maryland Dunkin' Donuts owner), I don't know.
> But if they are, they could afford to pursue
> litigation that would be very expensive indeed for
> the party on the receiving end. Why expose
> oneself to such a risk? I wouldn't, but others
> can decide for themselves.

As a former employee at Trummer's on Main who went through their extensive two-week training/food tasting, I can say that a lot of comments here are unfounded and incorrect, while many are correct and sadly accurate.

Victoria's dad, Keith, who spends several hundred dollars there every night, including $20 glasses of champagne, is a wealthy investor-type who gave his daughter the money to purchase and renovate The Hermitage for several million dollars. The guy who built the place is related to to Keith and it took them the better part of a year to pass inspections and overcome construction delays. I don't believe they took a loan, considering Keith lives at a 5-acre mansion nearby and urged Victoria to move back to Clifton under his financial security to open her dream restaurant with Stefan. Stefan's a good bar chef, but kind of a jerk when the pressure gets going. The "red headed manager", Tessa, is decent. The sommelier, Tyler Packwood, is knowledgable and friendly indeed, if not a little arrogant at times. The Chef, Clay Miller, is extremely uptight given the hype of the place, and his reputation on the line, and can be a jerk to people just trying to learn. The cooks are cool though, as well as the hostesses, I know a few personally.

I agree that the food is kind of overpriced; although it's good, people don't always want to spend that money in this economic climate. The drinks are kind of overpriced, probably because of Stefan's reputation. The drinks themselves are good.

The main problem I had working there was the extremely long hours with no overtime pay, and no meal breaks. We were served one "family dinner" at 3 or 4 PM, before working an 8+ hour shift until midnight or later. One meal per 8 hours is painful, given the fast-paced working conditions. Also, they said we don't get overtime pay because "it's the restaurant business", which is kind of sketchy to me. Maybe someone should investigate the legal side of that.

They tried preaching "friendly-as-possible" and efficient service, but kind of made everyone paranoid about working there, hence the uptight and often bad service. The idea behind the dress code was to be "formal comfortable", for both employees and guests. So we had to wear jeans (or black pants for bartenders), along with white untucked/tucked in shirts (depending on if you're a captain/backwaiter/foodrunner/busboy). It kind of makes the place cheesy, but since guests are allowed to come in informal comfortable clothing, its consistent. Personally, I think if they're going to serve $30 entrees and expensive drinks, the place should have more upscale attire to match the renovations/atmosphere.

The Trummer's mean well, but they kind of treat their employees like shit. When I worked there, I witnessed employees being cursed at in front of peers, as well as overworked/underpaid people who were less than thrilled with the management's attitudes and competency. You should check the place out once and give it a chance, but don't assume its the next big 5-star restaurant or anything, it's kind of desperately attempting to be one.

From what I hear Trummers is great. I haven't been there. Still we will dine there as soon as we can. As far as the other Heart in hand goes it has been around for a very long time. I would eat at Trummers first. I understand everyone has different taste. Seems to me Trummers will be a huge hit with Clifton.

Been there worked there could have meant the place is great. Food is well cooked. Or maybe they meant after hour party in the parking lot. Who knows. I see nothing wrong with post. Did you guys ever hear of free speech. We all have the right to freedom of speech. Seems to me Someone in Clifton has way too much time on their hands. Get over it. So if someone makes a remark about the Heart In Hand. They will be sued. This is really silly

Look, nobody gives a shit what you have to say since you are just writing a bunch of non-specific, generalities. But if you want to post about the Heart in Hand, please start a new thread. Quit hijacking this one!

been there Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Been there worked there could have meant the place
> is great. Food is well cooked. Or maybe they meant
> after hour party in the parking lot. Who knows. I
> see nothing wrong with post. Did you guys ever
> hear of free speech. We all have the right to
> freedom of speech. Seems to me Someone in Clifton
> has way too much time on their hands. Get over
> it. So if someone makes a remark about the Heart
> In Hand. They will be sued. This is really silly

Once again it appears that there is yet another impostor posing as a local (diner) that is spreading his/her "unbiased" observations about Trummer's. This is marketing at its finest! Just a random customer that has had a chance to tour the kitchen.
Hey foul mouth, why not present a little class and show some restraint? Are you the target demographic?

Diner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look, nobody gives a shit what you have to say
> since you are just writing a bunch of
> non-specific, generalities. But if you want to
> post about the Heart in Hand, please start a new
> thread. Quit hijacking this one!
>


There are two fine dining establishments in Clifton - Trummer's and Heart in Hand - so comparisons on the same thread are going to happen.

As for Heart in Hand, I have been there twice. The first time it was excellent and the second time it was disgusting. There were a couple of years between the two times. Not sure what was behind the swing in quality. It's possible the second time was just a bad night, I don't know. I still see people there when I go by, so it may be better now.

In any case, the owner of Heart in Hand didn't pour $3+ million into the place, so even slow nights probably won't kill the place. Not sure how Trummer's will do in the long run. There may not be a loan on the place, but nobody starts a business with the intent of losing money.

Comparisons are fine, I just don't think the thread should be turned into a discussion of Heart in Hand--especially when the poster isn't adding anything substantive. That being said, there are several differences between the Heart in Hand, and Trummer's. The owner's of Heart in Hand lease the space, they don't own it outright, and I imagine they make most of their money from events and catering--not dining in. My understanding is that Trummer's business model also depends substantially on private parties and events. They designed the space with serving stations and bars on each floor to accomodate multiple simultaneous events. Let me just repeat in anticipation of the inane speculation that I am somehow connected to the Trummer's that I have no inside knowledge other than what I've heard and seen while visiting as a patron. It is common practice for restaurants to give tours of the kitchen to interested customers, especially when they are brand new or have just remodeled.




WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Diner Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Look, nobody gives a shit what you have to say
> > since you are just writing a bunch of
> > non-specific, generalities. But if you want to
> > post about the Heart in Hand, please start a
> new
> > thread. Quit hijacking this one!
> >
>
>
> There are two fine dining establishments in
> Clifton - Trummer's and Heart in Hand - so
> comparisons on the same thread are going to
> happen.
>
> As for Heart in Hand, I have been there twice. The
> first time it was excellent and the second time it
> was disgusting. There were a couple of years
> between the two times. Not sure what was behind
> the swing in quality. It's possible the second
> time was just a bad night, I don't know. I still
> see people there when I go by, so it may be better
> now.
>
> In any case, the owner of Heart in Hand didn't
> pour $3+ million into the place, so even slow
> nights probably won't kill the place. Not sure how
> Trummer's will do in the long run. There may not
> be a loan on the place, but nobody starts a
> business with the intent of losing money.

"The sommelier, Tyler Packwood, is knowledgable and friendly indeed, if not a little arrogant at times."

His name is Tyler Packwood? Packwood? That's funny.

One might want to focus on the restaurant, not the 'money' that brought this restaurant to Clifton.
The restaurant food is fantastic.
The owners/investors have a plan and like any new restaurant, it needs time to work out the kinks. Sadly, the focus on caring for the staff and retention isn't at the top of their list if they are demeaning staff in front of others?!
Also, why are the owners all over the map when the restaurant is operating!? It seems they cause more confusion and then frustration of the staff as the night lingers on.
The management team, or what's left of it, has lost momentum, and that's sad.
Management needs to be the glue of the staff and owners/investors. If the team isn't in the loop, and managing, how do the workers work and be productive and happy? It's impossible!
The earlier statements by the previous staff member seem solid, not derogatory, nor meant to inflict pain.
I read them as a fellow director of a business and thought, "hmmm, sounds like the owners need to back off and let their managers lead the staff." Also sounds like the "redheaded manager" was their stability. As there wasn't much said, is it because she is no longer there, or that she is just flying below the radar? If the restaurant is that big, shouldn't there be more managers on the floor, and the owners to take care of the small things, and be more social with the clientele?!
Well, that's all the questions I had to throw into the pot for today...someone can take over the spoon and stir it now.
All the best to the restaurant and the surviving staff!

just a passerby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One might want to focus on the restaurant, not the
> 'money' that brought this restaurant to Clifton.
>

You start like that and then berate everything else. Classic!


LOL!

WashingTone-Locian... given the amount you've contributed to this thread, it is time for you to eat at Trummer's. Should we hold the next summit there? :-P

I'll clear up the confusion:

Victoria - Part owner, manager
Stefan - Part owner, manager
Keith - Part owner, investor
Tessa - Restaurant manager (has worked/lived in Hawaii all the way to Europe in various establishments, she is nice and competent at times but not always around when you need her)
Tyler - sommelier, manager

Victoria, Stefan, Tessa, and Tyler all float around on various nights and help where needed (opening locked storage rooms, talking to customers, clearing up confusion, comping meals when necessary, helping employees, etc.)

When I worked there they were a tight-knit unit themselves, but have struggled in distilling their knowledge and skills down to lower-level employees, hence the restaurant's struggles in being efficient and consistent.

Genevieve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian... given the amount you've
> contributed to this thread, it is time for you to
> eat at Trummer's. Should we hold the next summit
> there? :-P


As long as management doesn't find out it is us. Who knows how much saliva will end up in the entrees?