Looking at cars, seems Ted Britt is trying to charge $590 in processing fees? Where does this crap stop? I'll never buy from one of these dealers charging ridiculous processing fees. Fuck them all, along with the moron sheep who encourage them by paying the B.S. "fees".

I always figured the processing fee help to hire good back office staff. Just work out the very best deal outside of that. Also, spend all day working on deal but refuse to sign (again and again). It all helps.

Other than taxes maybe all of that is to be considered part of the deal. The best way to approach car negotiations is on an all-in, out-the-door basis for the bottom line number. Forget the details of what gets charged where. That's just there to capture profit. However they want to allocate costs and profit on their side isn't your concern.

Wheeler Dealer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Other than taxes maybe all of that is to be
> considered part of the deal. The best way to
> approach car negotiations is on an all-in,
> out-the-door basis for the bottom line number.
> Forget the details of what gets charged where.
> That's just there to capture profit. However they
> want to allocate costs and profit on their side
> isn't your concern.

Agree. Out the door quote is way to go. I once bought a nice Lexus that way from Pohanka.

You have to be smarter than the car dealer in order to get a good deal.

It isnt hard.

As a few people above said, you need to negotiate based on your all-inclusive, out-the-door price. This bottom line price should include all the BS dealer and freight fees (all of which are negotiable btw). Where they fuck you is when they sit you down and start going over an itemized, line-by-line list of all their stupid fees and accessory charges. Be firm and ALWAYS be prepared to walk out at any time. Buying a car is a psychological game more than anything. Be prepared to spend a good amount of your day at the dealership and basically try to wear down the salesmen. I bought a new Honda Pilot from Koons last month and spent 6 hours there from start to finish. Those bastards try to pull a fast one by double charging me for the accessories that THEY already install on the car without asking and force YOU to pay for afterwards. By the end of it, the salesman and his boss both said they hadn't dealt with a customer like me before. I don't give a shit what they meant by this, but I got a damn good price on the car and my trade-in.

Stealership tips Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a few people above said, you need to negotiate
> based on your all-inclusive, out-the-door price.
> This bottom line price should include all the BS
> dealer and freight fees (all of which are
> negotiable btw). Where they fuck you is when they
> sit you down and start going over an itemized,
> line-by-line list of all their stupid fees and
> accessory charges. Be firm and ALWAYS be prepared
> to walk out at any time. Buying a car is a
> psychological game more than anything. Be prepared
> to spend a good amount of your day at the
> dealership and basically try to wear down the
> salesmen. I bought a new Honda Pilot from Koons
> last month and spent 6 hours there from start to
> finish. Those bastards try to pull a fast one by
> double charging me for the accessories that THEY
> already install on the car without asking and
> force YOU to pay for afterwards. By the end of it,
> the salesman and his boss both said they hadn't
> dealt with a customer like me before. I don't give
> a shit what they meant by this, but I got a damn
> good price on the car and my trade-in.


Good for you for screwing them as best you could. This industry is jacked up. People shouldn't have to spend time "wearing down" the sales people. What a stupid waste of time and productivity for all involved. Hopefully the industry will turn around some day.

drew2000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stealership tips Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As a few people above said, you need to
> negotiate
> > based on your all-inclusive, out-the-door
> price.
> > This bottom line price should include all the
> BS
> > dealer and freight fees (all of which are
> > negotiable btw). Where they fuck you is when
> they
> > sit you down and start going over an itemized,
> > line-by-line list of all their stupid fees and
> > accessory charges. Be firm and ALWAYS be
> prepared
> > to walk out at any time. Buying a car is a
> > psychological game more than anything. Be
> prepared
> > to spend a good amount of your day at the
> > dealership and basically try to wear down the
> > salesmen. I bought a new Honda Pilot from Koons
> > last month and spent 6 hours there from start
> to
> > finish. Those bastards try to pull a fast one
> by
> > double charging me for the accessories that
> THEY
> > already install on the car without asking and
> > force YOU to pay for afterwards. By the end of
> it,
> > the salesman and his boss both said they hadn't
> > dealt with a customer like me before. I don't
> give
> > a shit what they meant by this, but I got a
> damn
> > good price on the car and my trade-in.
>
>
> Good for you for screwing them as best you could.
> This industry is jacked up. People shouldn't have
> to spend time "wearing down" the sales people.
> What a stupid waste of time and productivity for
> all involved. Hopefully the industry will turn
> around some day.


Yeah it is sad that buying a car can't be a simple, straight forward process. The whole thing is like one sick game.

Where you really have to watch yourself is when you finish with the salesman and then end up talking to the Finance person.
Even if you have already gone to your local credit union to get pre-approved for financing, the Finance person is the one who is out to screw you.
That's where the extras get added. Honda will try to charge you for applying a protective coating on your Honda, when it is already on the car in the lot.
They can get you for up to $1000 for that if you let them.

I agree with Jack406. You gotta watch the hyper aggressive finance douchbags. They are much tougher than the actual sales person. It's like some bullshit good cop/bad cop routine. Always be prepared to walk away, research to see what you should be paying, and don't mention any trade-in until you have negotiated for the vehicle you are buying. These guys would rather move inventory without making anything on the car than not sell it at all because they have a quota to meet.

What you need to do is go in there and explain to them EXACTLY (to the penny) how much you can afford to pay per month for a car. You will be amazed how they can calculate a payment for that exact figure!

Re: Are all car dealers garbage?
Posted by: Stabitha ()
Date: March 31, 2013 09:54PM

What you need to do is go in there and explain to them EXACTLY (to the penny) how much you can afford to pay per month for a car. You will be amazed how they can calculate a payment for that exact figure!


Ummm, I would say telling those fucking hyenas exactly what you can afford a month is probably the last thing you want to do.

Agreed about negotiating the "out the door price". However that price should include taxes. tags etc. in the mix, because dealers can play games with those numbers as well.

Pretty tough to monkey with the tax and tag fees. Those are regulated by the state. However, they will fuck you over at any opportunity on the actual price of the car and BS like dealer prep.

To be honest, CARMAX does it right and you can usually find really low milage almost new cars there and avoid the inital depreciation hit you get when you buy a brand new car.

I've never found a price at Carmax that I couldn't beat by a lot with a little negotiating at a regular sleazy dealer.

Car dealers that lose money don't stay in business. Period. They know the game better than you do. If you are of a mind that a car is something other than a person mover then be prepared to pay. A new car loses value as soon as you drive it off the lot. Save your money and pay cash for something used. Overpaying for a shiny toy that wears out a little bit each mile you drive it is a suckers game. And if you finance it or trade in your old car? Butthurt city.

Not sold on Carmax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've never found a price at Carmax that I couldn't
> beat by a lot with a little negotiating at a
> regular sleazy dealer.

I buy all my cars from Marland but I live in VA better Deals & less Tax Darcars is good I bought several from them,,, Just a FYI check it out Slim....

My dealer makes LESS dollars of profit per 25,000 new car than Jared does on jewelry over 1000. Sometimes the only thing we make is the processing fee, which we charge ONLY because you came in asking for under invoice pricing. Why don't you go to Nordstrom and ask to see the invoice on the 800 suit you want to buy. You would see they stocked that suit in for about $400... wait-- thats about as much as a processing fee !!

Dealer employees like helping you and don't want to give you a hard time.
It is not hard to get a good deal with as much competition as there is in this area.
Just please dont get on FU and call us all bastards and generalize that we are all evil...

no they arent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My dealer makes LESS dollars of profit per 25,000
> new car than Jared does on jewelry over 1000.
> Sometimes the only thing we make is the processing
> fee, which we charge ONLY because you came in
> asking for under invoice pricing. Why don't you go
> to Nordstrom and ask to see the invoice on the 800
> suit you want to buy. You would see they stocked
> that suit in for about $400... wait-- thats about
> as much as a processing fee !!
>
> Dealer employees like helping you and don't want
> to give you a hard time.
> It is not hard to get a good deal with as much
> competition as there is in this area.
> Just please dont get on FU and call us all
> bastards and generalize that we are all evil...

Notice he doesnt put out the car dealer's NAME? What sorta car dealer person wouldnt put out a NAME if they are stating that they have great deals and dont make any profit on what they sale. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO ANYBODY READING THIS!?!?!!?

edit: also notice he felt ok to generalize - I'm sure ALL dealer employees like helping and dont want to give hard times.....................ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha what? didja take a poll? LoLz



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2013 10:48AM by Gordon Blvd.

I won't put the name of the dealer I work at either. Why? The Internet is full of assholes, and people will jump at the chance to get someone fired.


I write service, have for 10 years. The salesman is right, most dealer employees would rather just go to work everyday and not have to deal with the unescessary bullshit that some customers force upon us. Even if it meant making less money.

If you don't like the price of a car, don't buy it. If you don't like the price of a repair, go somewhere else. None of us really care to argue and fight with you. We didn't design the cars, build the cars, or price the cars; and none of us can change how the industry works.....and none of us want to talk about it with you.

If you want to change the industry, go start your own car brand and page the way. Until then, the current methods are the most profitable.

BTW: I worked at a fixed price dealership once. Customers would lose their shit in the showroom when they realized the dealer WOULD NOT negotiate. The vehicles were priced fairly. The industry IS the way it is because of the customers. Customers crave the negotiation aspect of it. When customers actually want the industry to change, it will.

I would never buy from CarMax. The car's there were previous fleet and rental vehicles that were driven God knows how.

Dealers are filthy assholes and never to be trusted. They will screw you on your trade, your fees, your accessories, your financing and anything else if you allow it. They suck, and I hope I live to see the day that cars are sold like most other consumer goods- at a fair, fixed price.

Hey MikeyMike,

What industry are you in ?
PLEASE let me know. Wouldnt it be fun?

no they arent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My dealer makes LESS dollars of profit per 25,000
> new car than Jared does on jewelry over 1000.
> Sometimes the only thing we make is the processing
> fee, which we charge ONLY because you came in
> asking for under invoice pricing. Why don't you go
> to Nordstrom and ask to see the invoice on the 800
> suit you want to buy. You would see they stocked
> that suit in for about $400... wait-- thats about
> as much as a processing fee !!
>

An absolute lie. Dealers get manufacturer incentives/kickbacks, make a killing on financing, etc. If the processing fee is the only way you make money, why is it that Maryland car dealers usually only try to get a $100 processing fee?

You're a liar, like most car salesman. Like most car salesmen, you're no doubt also a convicted felon / ex-con.

Non-DMV BS fees are capped by law in MD. "Business friendly" VA has no cap.

I like to ask if they are also going to tack on an electricity fee for the lights being on, in addition to the "document fee" they are trying to charge me for a standard aspect of running a car dealership.

I determine a target price plus mandatory taxes and DMV fees. If they want my business, they can meet that. If they want to make it a $500 car with $30k worth of fees, knock yourself out. I just care about the bottom line price. If they demand a BS fee they can lower the car price to include it. I'm not paying for that nonsense.

Tisk, tisk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> drew2000 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Stealership tips Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > As a few people above said, you need to
> > negotiate
> > > based on your all-inclusive, out-the-door
> > price.
> > > This bottom line price should include all the
> > BS
> > > dealer and freight fees (all of which are
> > > negotiable btw). Where they fuck you is when
> > they
> > > sit you down and start going over an
> itemized,
> > > line-by-line list of all their stupid fees
> and
> > > accessory charges. Be firm and ALWAYS be
> > prepared
> > > to walk out at any time. Buying a car is a
> > > psychological game more than anything. Be
> > prepared
> > > to spend a good amount of your day at the
> > > dealership and basically try to wear down the
> > > salesmen. I bought a new Honda Pilot from
> Koons
> > > last month and spent 6 hours there from start
> > to
> > > finish. Those bastards try to pull a fast one
> > by
> > > double charging me for the accessories that
> > THEY
> > > already install on the car without asking and
> > > force YOU to pay for afterwards. By the end
> of
> > it,
> > > the salesman and his boss both said they
> hadn't
> > > dealt with a customer like me before. I don't
> > give
> > > a shit what they meant by this, but I got a
> > damn
> > > good price on the car and my trade-in.
> >
> >
> > Good for you for screwing them as best you
> could.
> > This industry is jacked up. People shouldn't
> have
> > to spend time "wearing down" the sales people.
> > What a stupid waste of time and productivity
> for
> > all involved. Hopefully the industry will turn
> > around some day.
>
>
> Yeah it is sad that buying a car can't be a
> simple, straight forward process. The whole thing
> is like one sick game.


Correct. The price of a NEW car should be fixed with no negotiation. Used car prices have to be negotiable since no two cars are alike due to wear and tear and options installed.

Dealers won't ever let that happen. Heck Tesla Motors is making a point to sell direct and they have felt some saber rattling from dealer groups about violating franchise laws and other protectionist regulations installed by the dealers.

TrueCar used to hand out competitive prices along with tons of useful information from transaction data until they were sued under franchise laws. Now they have no information and some crap "target price". Service is worthless now.

Make no mistake, the dealers love the stays status quo and have more money to buy politicians than we do.

LetsRock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tisk, tisk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > drew2000 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Stealership tips Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > As a few people above said, you need to
> > > negotiate
> > > > based on your all-inclusive, out-the-door
> > > price.
> > > > This bottom line price should include all
> the
> > > BS
> > > > dealer and freight fees (all of which are
> > > > negotiable btw). Where they fuck you is
> when
> > > they
> > > > sit you down and start going over an
> > itemized,
> > > > line-by-line list of all their stupid fees
> > and
> > > > accessory charges. Be firm and ALWAYS be
> > > prepared
> > > > to walk out at any time. Buying a car is a
> > > > psychological game more than anything. Be
> > > prepared
> > > > to spend a good amount of your day at the
> > > > dealership and basically try to wear down
> the
> > > > salesmen. I bought a new Honda Pilot from
> > Koons
> > > > last month and spent 6 hours there from
> start
> > > to
> > > > finish. Those bastards try to pull a fast
> one
> > > by
> > > > double charging me for the accessories that
> > > THEY
> > > > already install on the car without asking
> and
> > > > force YOU to pay for afterwards. By the end
> > of
> > > it,
> > > > the salesman and his boss both said they
> > hadn't
> > > > dealt with a customer like me before. I
> don't
> > > give
> > > > a shit what they meant by this, but I got a
> > > damn
> > > > good price on the car and my trade-in.
> > >
> > >
> > > Good for you for screwing them as best you
> > could.
> > > This industry is jacked up. People shouldn't
> > have
> > > to spend time "wearing down" the sales people.
>
> > > What a stupid waste of time and productivity
> > for
> > > all involved. Hopefully the industry will
> turn
> > > around some day.
> >
> >
> > Yeah it is sad that buying a car can't be a
> > simple, straight forward process. The whole
> thing
> > is like one sick game.
>
>
> Correct. The price of a NEW car should be fixed
> with no negotiation. Used car prices have to be
> negotiable since no two cars are alike due to wear
> and tear and options installed.


You really really wouldn't like that. The consumer would 100% pay more than they pay now. All profits would be built in to the cost of the car on the front end, instead of the dealers taking a risk by selling cars at a loss to hit an incentivized goal from the manufacturer.

Here's how it works. Many manufacturers have monthly sales goals for the dealership to hit. If they hit these goals ("stair steps") by certain times of the month, they get a lot of money. Smaller dealers don't even try, as the units sold that are required to qualify are pretty high. But for bigger dealers not hitting that goal isn't an option.

So, lets say that goal is 200 cars. Big dealerships will sell cars at a loss, in order to get enough units over the curb to qualify for the six digit bonus. In fact, that bonus is normally the only true profit the dealer will see. If they don't hit it, they lost money that month, and it's not uncommon for the GM to get shitcanned. Processing fees are simply the profit needed to keep the lights on, and to employ the few hourly employees needed to keep selling cars.

With this system, the manufacturer gets their cars over the curb, and the customer gets a great deal. If the entire industry went to fixed pricing (which it never will, as it would require everyone to be on the same page.....and someone would end up in jail for collusion and or price fixing) the consumer would end up taking it on the chin by being responsible for the dealers profit margin.

Lil Boosie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would never buy from CarMax. The car's there
> were previous fleet and rental vehicles that were
> driven God knows how.

You are full of shit. I bought a 2006 350Z from Carmax with 12,000 miles on it. The Carfax showed a private owner. The price was within $100 of the Blue Book price. Car now has 64,000 trouble free miles.

Never happen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dealers won't ever let that happen. Heck Tesla
> Motors is making a point to sell direct and they
> have felt some saber rattling from dealer groups
> about violating franchise laws and other
> protectionist regulations installed by the
> dealers.

Watch this Supreme Court case - http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-11-14/opinions/35505539_1_caskets-funeral-merchandise-funeral-homes

It doesn't have anything to do with cars, but if the monks win, an awful lot of the laws that protect dealers will be out the window. Watch how fast the manufacturers embrace direct sales and service if franchise laws are found to be unconstitutional.

Yep, car dealers and salesmen make a living swindling and lying to get as much dough as possible out of gullible grandma. They lie so much that truth is a foreign concept. Best bet is to buy a two year old car from someone you know or use an auto broker, like my bank and insurance company provide. Someday, this corrupt business model will die.

The fact that you trust a bank and an insurance company disturbs me.

MikeyMike is good at getting on here and posting ad hominem generalizations about car dealers, but won't state what business he is in.

I would love to know so i could pick his ass apart.
Is he a lawyer, charging astronomical rates?
A realtor, charging 6% on a 500,000 house for a couple hours of actual work?
A "beltway bandit" aptly named for screwing the taxpayers in the ass (in league with the government bureaucraps)?

The bible says ye who is pure can throw the first stone.
I think MikeyMike is just a smelly stoner.

- Car Seller

You silly prick. I'm that dirty military guy that travels the world on your dime, sees every country from the nastiest shithole to the four star hotel and knows every dirty trick in the book. Next to shopping in thieves market in dirtystan and wading through fake VCR's, your ilk is a close second in the encyclopedia of shitbags. Now, I'm hittin the rack, you keep on spewin and trolling with your bullshit.

If car dealers were run like the military, we would have $100,000 compact cars and $500,000 SUVs. Only private businesses have to run on supply and demand pricing. There is NOOOO cost savings at all and NOOOO fiscal accountability in the Pentagon.
The US Navy just scrapped a $277 million ship because it got too close to a friggin coral reef. And last year they scrapped two ships that cost over $300 million that NEVER SAILED at all!!!
And wanna talk about the joint strike fighter debacle?
Or the 5 billion the Army just spent on paying soldiers who already opted out?
But who the F#*# cares-- its not their money.
Go ahead and dick around in the sand in the 3rd world while our country is shitcanned by the drug cartels on our southern border. BRILLANT !!

Car Seller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If car dealers were run like the military, we
> would have $100,000 compact cars and $500,000
> SUVs. Only private businesses have to run on
> supply and demand pricing. There is NOOOO cost
> savings at all and NOOOO fiscal accountability in
> the Pentagon.
> The US Navy just scrapped a $277 million ship
> because it got too close to a friggin coral reef.
> And last year they scrapped two ships that cost
> over $300 million that NEVER SAILED at all!!!
> And wanna talk about the joint strike fighter
> debacle?
> Or the 5 billion the Army just spent on paying
> soldiers who already opted out?
> But who the F#*# cares-- its not their money.
> Go ahead and dick around in the sand in the 3rd
> world while our country is shitcanned by the drug
> cartels on our southern border. BRILLANT !!


Dude, put down the political media crack pipe and get out of the house. When you're comparing a car dealer to the Navy based on some guy mentioning that he's in the military, then you know you've had too much. lulz

Maybe do a little car shopping!?!

Car shopping is an economically efficient market.

Government contracting and aquisition is the opposite.

Name Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I won't put the name of the dealer I work at
> either. Why? The Internet is full of assholes,
> and people will jump at the chance to get someone
> fired.


translation: I have no pride in where I work or what I do - so much so that I FEAR LOSING MY JOB OVER PPL DISCUSSING WHERE I WORK AND WHAT I DO!

>
> I write service, have for 10 years. The salesman
> is right, most dealer employees would rather just
> go to work everyday and not have to deal with the
> unescessary bullshit that some customers force
> upon us. Even if it meant making less money.

the VERY definition of Customer Service, ladies and gentlemen. There to HELP YOU! ;)

> If you don't like the price of a car, don't buy
> it. If you don't like the price of a repair, go
> somewhere else. None of us really care to argue
> and fight with you. We didn't design the cars,
> build the cars, or price the cars; and none of us
> can change how the industry works.....and none of
> us want to talk about it with you.

real friendly, knowledgeable ppl you got over there o_0



> If you want to change the industry, go start your
> own car brand and page the way. Until then, the
> current methods are the most profitable.

Well, Circuit City is doing pretty well doing EXACTLY what you are suggesting - so much so that the gave up being Circuit City in order to show y'all how to sell cars properly LoLz http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/20/carmax-results-idUSL4N09N59D20121220

> BTW: I worked at a fixed price dealership once.
> Customers would lose their shit in the showroom
> when they realized the dealer WOULD NOT negotiate.
> The vehicles were priced fairly. The industry IS
> the way it is because of the customers. Customers
> crave the negotiation aspect of it. When
> customers actually want the industry to change, it
> will.

whatever you say, big guy. Cause the industry is just soooooooo concerened about ppl's complaints.........................just as YOU have been, right?

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What you need to do is go in there and explain to
> them EXACTLY (to the penny) how much you can
> afford to pay per month for a car. You will be
> amazed how they can calculate a payment for that
> exact figure!


Never, ever, ever negotiate for a monthly payment. They can always get you something in your payment range, but it will never be your best deal. A common tactic is to ask which is more important, price or monthly payment? The answer is both are important and each will be negeotiated seperately. If you answer one way or the other, they have you.

Carmax-We will not consider lowering our profit for any reason. Buy from us and pay way more for a non factory certified used car. We pay you more than anyone for your car and sell for less. Believe us because we spend a lot of money on advertising.

I just bought a car at Audi of Tysons Corner on Saturday (3/30). I didn't have any issues at all. I did my research beforehand, so I knew what invoice was, then spoke with them, talked options, and got a VERY good deal. Also, I didn't have any processing fees or destination charges. Just base vehicle plus options, tax, title and registration. I recommend doing your homework and approaching them logically with what you want to pay.

WB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just bought a car at Audi of Tysons Corner on
> Saturday (3/30). I didn't have any issues at all.
> I did my research beforehand, so I knew what
> invoice was, then spoke with them, talked options,
> and got a VERY good deal. Also, I didn't have any
> processing fees or destination charges. Just base
> vehicle plus options, tax, title and registration.
> I recommend doing your homework and approaching
> them logically with what you want to pay.


I agree with what you say. I have also found that the high end car dealers are much easier to deal with. They know that their customers are usually pretty well educated and don't try to play games with them.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Name Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I won't put the name of the dealer I work at
> > either. Why? The Internet is full of assholes,
> > and people will jump at the chance to get
> someone
> > fired.
>
>
> translation: I have no pride in where I work or
> what I do - so much so that I FEAR LOSING MY JOB
> OVER PPL DISCUSSING WHERE I WORK AND WHAT I DO!
>

I have no right to speak publicly on behalf of my employer.


> >
> > I write service, have for 10 years. The
> salesman
> > is right, most dealer employees would rather
> just
> > go to work everyday and not have to deal with
> the
> > unescessary bullshit that some customers force
> > upon us. Even if it meant making less money.
>
> the VERY definition of Customer Service, ladies
> and gentlemen. There to HELP YOU! ;)

No, I'm there to make the company money by providing a service to our customers. Emotional tantrums by customers related to factors outside of my control is what gets old.

>
> > If you don't like the price of a car, don't buy
> > it. If you don't like the price of a repair,
> go
> > somewhere else. None of us really care to
> argue
> > and fight with you. We didn't design the cars,
> > build the cars, or price the cars; and none of
> us
> > can change how the industry works.....and none
> of
> > us want to talk about it with you.
>
> real friendly, knowledgeable ppl you got over
> there o_0

Very knowledgable actually. But discussing franchise law with your service advisor is not germaine to why you are there in the first place.



>
>
>
> > If you want to change the industry, go start
> your
> > own car brand and page the way. Until then,
> the
> > current methods are the most profitable.
>
> Well, Circuit City is doing pretty well doing
> EXACTLY what you are suggesting - so much so that
> the gave up being Circuit City in order to show
> y'all how to sell cars properly LoLz
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/20/carmax-r
> esults-idUSL4N09N59D20121220
>

As a used car outlet Carmax does well. When used cars stop being their staple, and they become a new car national front runner with their fixed pricing strategy, then we can talk.

> > BTW: I worked at a fixed price dealership once.
>
> > Customers would lose their shit in the showroom
> > when they realized the dealer WOULD NOT
> negotiate.
> > The vehicles were priced fairly. The industry
> IS
> > the way it is because of the customers.
> Customers
> > crave the negotiation aspect of it. When
> > customers actually want the industry to change,
> it
> > will.
>
> whatever you say, big guy. Cause the industry is
> just soooooooo concerened about ppl's
> complaints.........................just as YOU
> have been, right?

The industry cares about selling cars. When people stop buying cars because of how there sold, then maybe they'll think about making a change. However, most people only have to experience buying a new car every 4-5 years. The impact that the current sales structure has on the average consumer is negligible at best.

Gotcha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I just bought a car at Audi of Tysons Corner on
> > Saturday (3/30). I didn't have any issues at
> all.
> > I did my research beforehand, so I knew what
> > invoice was, then spoke with them, talked
> options,
> > and got a VERY good deal. Also, I didn't have
> any
> > processing fees or destination charges. Just
> base
> > vehicle plus options, tax, title and
> registration.
> > I recommend doing your homework and
> approaching
> > them logically with what you want to pay.
>
>
> I agree with what you say. I have also found that
> the high end car dealers are much easier to deal
> with. They know that their customers are usually
> pretty well educated and don't try to play games
> with them.

True. Your luxury dealer is much easier to deal with. They seem to be more likely to engage in real negotiations over the phone or email, and I don't hear about as many games being played.

With that said, you'd think it would be the opposite. Lux dealers sell fewer cars and you'd think they would want more profit per unit, compared to a Ford dealer who is more concerned with volume. Instead, the Ford dealer will make you grind for a few hundred bucks and then keep you in F&I for an hour saying no, while the Audi dealer delivers a well priced car without the buyer ever stepping foot in the dealership.

@former - you may THINK that..............but seems real life experience says differently

why do you think that is, eh? LoLz

Former Sales Guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gotcha Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WB Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I just bought a car at Audi of Tysons Corner
> on
> > > Saturday (3/30). I didn't have any issues at
> > all.
> > > I did my research beforehand, so I knew what
> > > invoice was, then spoke with them, talked
> > options,
> > > and got a VERY good deal. Also, I didn't
> have
> > any
> > > processing fees or destination charges. Just
> > base
> > > vehicle plus options, tax, title and
> > registration.
> > > I recommend doing your homework and
> > approaching
> > > them logically with what you want to pay.
> >
> >
> > I agree with what you say. I have also found
> that
> > the high end car dealers are much easier to
> deal
> > with. They know that their customers are
> usually
> > pretty well educated and don't try to play
> games
> > with them.
>
> True. Your luxury dealer is much easier to deal
> with. They seem to be more likely to engage in
> real negotiations over the phone or email, and I
> don't hear about as many games being played.
>
> With that said, you'd think it would be the
> opposite. Lux dealers sell fewer cars and you'd
> think they would want more profit per unit,
> compared to a Ford dealer who is more concerned
> with volume. Instead, the Ford dealer will make
> you grind for a few hundred bucks and then keep
> you in F&I for an hour saying no, while the Audi
> dealer delivers a well priced car without the
> buyer ever stepping foot in the dealership.


It wouldn't be the opposite. Luxury cars are much more profitable and the dealers usually do not barter much. They make more per car even though they might sell fewer cars. Their service and parts are also very expensive. Your Fords and Chevys are mass appeal cars and there is very little profit made on each sale, So dealers fight for every penny they can get.

If you want easy one price shopping just pay sticker, you will be in and out of the dealership and business office very quickly. Nobody is forcing you to negotiate all day.

ILOVEDEALERSHIPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want easy one price shopping just pay
> sticker, you will be in and out of the dealership
> and business office very quickly. Nobody is
> forcing you to negotiate all day.

Dealers will be more than happy to try gouging customers for more than sticker if they have a vehicle that is appealing. I remember seeing many greedy dealers trying to screw people with "Additional Dealer Markup" over the years. Fact remains that car dealers are just about at the bottom of the barrel in terms of honesty and ethics, right alongside politicians and the mainstream media.

Notso Fast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ILOVEDEALERSHIPS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you want easy one price shopping just pay
> > sticker, you will be in and out of the
> dealership
> > and business office very quickly. Nobody is
> > forcing you to negotiate all day.
>
> Dealers will be more than happy to try gouging
> customers for more than sticker if they have a
> vehicle that is appealing. I remember seeing many
> greedy dealers trying to screw people with
> "Additional Dealer Markup" over the years. Fact
> remains that car dealers are just about at the
> bottom of the barrel in terms of honesty and
> ethics, right alongside politicians and the
> mainstream media.


I don't see Additional Dealer Markup as trying to screw the customer. Just the opposite, they are putting it out there for everyone to see. I consider screwing the customer when they try to hide something, Since it out there to clearly see, it is up to the customer if her wants to pay it or up to the dealer if they want to negotiate it. I see ADM as a supply and demand thing. That said I will not pay it and will pass on any car that includes it.

You would be shocked if you knew how many morons and women buy cars for the window sticker price.

The direct to consumer model that Tesla is following will ultimately win out. This country is too educated to allow the current model to continue. There are too many dealers anyway. You really only need one per county, so people can go test drive cars before they buy. Then just order the car online direct from the manufacturer. This will be the future once the poitics get sorted out.

Then the shady salespeople can go continue their careers selling shoes to fat women Al Bundy style. Have a nice life bitches.

Fortune Teller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The direct to consumer model that Tesla is
> following will ultimately win out. This country
> is too educated to allow the current model to
> continue. There are too many dealers anyway. You
> really only need one per county, so people can go
> test drive cars before they buy. Then just order
> the car online direct from the manufacturer. This
> will be the future once the poitics get sorted
> out.
>
> Then the shady salespeople can go continue their
> careers selling shoes to fat women Al Bundy style.
> Have a nice life bitches.


One per county? So if i live in the Ft. Belvior area I can drive to the dealer at Tysons Corner or the Dealer in Gainsville? Very convient. Have you seen the size of the California counties. Your model is very inconvient for service and getting warranty work done.

The Telsa might work for high end cars, but I don't see it working for the Honda and Toyota-trash drivers.

Fortune Teller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The direct to consumer model that Tesla is
> following will ultimately win out. This country
> is too educated to allow the current model to
> continue. There are too many dealers anyway. You
> really only need one per county, so people can go
> test drive cars before they buy. Then just order
> the car online direct from the manufacturer. This
> will be the future once the poitics get sorted
> out.
>
> Then the shady salespeople can go continue their
> careers selling shoes to fat women Al Bundy style.
> Have a nice life bitches.

....And then everyone would pay more for cars. In fact, only paying MSRP for a car would be a deal. It would become an artificial market like the iPhone and the Wii, where the manufacturer purposefully restricts supply in order to keep the prices high.

You're a fucking moron who lives in a fantasy world if you think car manufacturers selling directly to the public would somehow benefit the consumer.

>if you think car manufacturers selling
> directly to the public would somehow benefit the
> consumer.


You are getting defensive, sounds like you might work in the industry and have no practical skills that could get you a job anywhere else.

If you cut out the middleman (fat), then prices will drop.

There is a lot of fat in the industry, particularly real estate and operating costs.

Most of it is not necessary, because I could buy a Corolla in Fairfax or California and wind up with the exact same car.

Of course you may want different options on a vehicle, but most of those options are installed by the manufacturer.

Sore Spot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >if you think car manufacturers selling
> > directly to the public would somehow benefit
> the
> > consumer.
>
>
> You are getting defensive, sounds like you might
> work in the industry and have no practical skills
> that could get you a job anywhere else.
>
> If you cut out the middleman (fat), then prices
> will drop.
>
> There is a lot of fat in the industry,
> particularly real estate and operating costs.
>
> Most of it is not necessary, because I could buy a
> Corolla in Fairfax or California and wind up with
> the exact same car.
>
> Of course you may want different options on a
> vehicle, but most of those options are installed
> by the manufacturer.

I have no stake in the game, cars will always break, so I'll always have a job.

You think that if dealers are eliminated, the manufacturers will lower prices for the benefit of the consumer? All of a sudden these multi-billion dollar companies will be overcome with a wave of altruism and decide to help everyone out?

FUCK NO!! They at very very best will keep the prices the same while retaining more profit, or more likely raise their prices across the country because they now control the motherfucking spice.

Not to mention that they would have to hire more employees to man their corporate owned dealerships, they would have to buy the property to build these dealerships (the former franchisees wouldn't help them); and then, all these new corporate employees would qualify for the same union benefits that the factory workers do!!! International Brotherhood of Teamsters will allow car dealer employees to join as it sits now, but I'm sure the UAW would happily allow its member rolls to be greatly expanded.

So now you've taken an industry that gives its employees NO benefits, but the ability to make very decent money on commission; and you've replaced it with a building full of people making $20/hr that really cost $45/hr......yea, great savings there.

Here's a good example. Progressive insurance and Geico, both direct to consumer companies. How come I can get coverage through my Allstate agent cheaper? Since they have no agents why aren't they the cheapest guys in town, by a large margin?

Because they like fucking money, just like the rest of us!!!!

At the end of the day, selling cars directly to the consumer is more expensive than maintaining a dealer network. Go research why Henry Ford refused to sell cars any other way......#1: he hated people, #2: the network assured that Ford would sell every car it made, allowing them to focus on production and not becoming mired in a surplus of unsold vehicles because of the ebbs and flows of the market.

Sore Spot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >if you think car manufacturers selling
> > directly to the public would somehow benefit
> the
> > consumer.
>
>
> You are getting defensive, sounds like you might
> work in the industry and have no practical skills
> that could get you a job anywhere else.
>
> If you cut out the middleman (fat), then prices
> will drop.
>
> There is a lot of fat in the industry,
> particularly real estate and operating costs.
>
> Most of it is not necessary, because I could buy a
> Corolla in Fairfax or California and wind up with
> the exact same car.
>
> Of course you may want different options on a
> vehicle, but most of those options are installed
> by the manufacturer.


If you cut out the dealer, then the manufacturer has to pick up all the expense of selling the cars. Right now they are set up to sell cars in bulk to dealers. They have very few customers (dealers) so their overhead is quite small. If they go to a direct to consumer model, they will have to acquire all of the dealerships land and buildings and staff them for sales and service. They would also have to take on the burden of the service departments. You are talking billions of dollars they will have to put up just to set up this in-company dealer network.

You will also have to have sales people to close the sale. The car companies don't want to leave it to chance that a potential customer will go home and order a car on the Internet; they have too much overhead in their factories and investment in their new dealer network.

So where is all of this savings going to come from? There won't be any savings, the price of cars wil go up dramatically.

They charge high processing fees because ignorant people let it happen. I have not paid these fees on my last five cars. You don't have to either.

i bought my 2011 toyota venza from the new toyota dealership from carmax, located out in maryland.

let's just say for the price and features no dealer in va or md had what i wanted for the price. if carmax begins to expand on this, i see every dealer getting screwed sooner than later.

it's nice to know im driving what was a nearly 40k car for 20k (after insurance money and downpayment).

the price was 31k at carmax, and no dealer outside of them came close to that price (and they had an additional 1,000 off too) and that was before my downpayment too.

rob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i bought my 2011 toyota venza from the new toyota
> dealership from carmax, located out in maryland.
>
> let's just say for the price and features no
> dealer in va or md had what i wanted for the
> price. if carmax begins to expand on this, i see
> every dealer getting screwed sooner than later.
>
> it's nice to know im driving what was a nearly 40k
> car for 20k (after insurance money and
> downpayment).
>
> the price was 31k at carmax, and no dealer outside
> of them came close to that price (and they had an
> additional 1,000 off too) and that was before my
> downpayment too.


So you don't include your down payment as part of the price of the car? How does that work?