Tysons Corner Is the New Downtown, Developers Say
Commercial developers showcased plans for new "live, work, play" communities in Tysons Corner.
http://vienna.patch.com/articles/tysons-corner-is-the-new-downtown-developers-say

When the first phase of the Silver Line Metro is up and running, the four new stations in Tysons Corner will become mini urban centers, a panel of developers explained to an auditorium of more than 100 at the Gannett headquarters in McLean on Wednesday morning.

The panel discussion was part of a networking event hosted by the Tysons Corner Regional Chamber of Commerce.

Slide after slide of glossy architectural renderings flashed on a big screen as the developers showcased pictures of new office buildings, new hotels, new condominums and new retail spaces that will start popping up around each of the new metro stations as soon as 2014. In total, tens of millions of square feets in new developed space are on the horizon.

But new buildings aren't the whole story. Tysons Corner Center will get a new entrance complete with an outdoor community center, suitable for farmers markets in summertime. Two new athletic fields will be installed along Westpark Drive. A new mixed used development near the Tysons Corner Central Metro station along Route 7 will potentially house 10-story outdoor video art wall.

Aaron Georgelas, a partner in the Georgelas Group, the firm developing a parcel adjacent to the Tysons West metro station, said the plans envision a community where metro riders can walk from station to store (or hotel, or apartment, or grocery) without needing an umbrella on a rainy day.

"We want people to feel like when they’ve arrived here they’ve arrived at the center of it all," Georgelas said.

Gerald Gordon, president and CEO of the Fairfax County Economic Development Authority, said Tysons Corner already represents the new epicenter of the Metro region.

In 1980, downtown Washington represented the geographic center of the region's economic drivers. In 2012, Tysons Corner is the new center, Gordon said.

"Fairfax county is now the downtown….and the heart of that is Tysons," Gordon said. "Tysons’s time has come."

The Silver Line will include four stops in Tysons Corner. Map courtesy of Dulles Corridor Metrorail Project.
Attachments:

This is most likely the same dickhead asshole with the name "Tysons Engineer" touting that tysons is becoming the next mecca of commerce. Like I've continually told you morons though, wait until you see the type of crowd that shows up. Most of the yuppie crowd that comes right now already have cars and would be there anyway. This crowd that you are going to bring in from MD will turn tysons into the new pentagon city mall and surrounding area minus the pentagon part. So basically, you will have a drop in customer service when all the minimum wage hispanics get replaced with minimum wage blacks. "I axed you a queshun! did you want ketchup with dat? U betta pay attenshun when I'z talking 2 U nikka or Imma show u how we roll in PG." Fuck this lib thinking that they can just spend more and more money and all of the sudden it will create some kind of magic shithole.

Downtown is DC, maybe Arlington and Alexandria. Tysons will never be known as a downtown. Just plastic and phony.

Tysons might have been considered a "downtown" 20 years ago. Now it is purely a giant mall and office complex. The above ground metro is only going to make it even worse. In fact it already has.

20 years ago, there was actually a nightlife in Tyson's. Now the only place open after midnight, besides 7-11 and McD's, is Clydes.

As far as a "mecca of commerce", I don't see that, either. Granted it is something like the 10th or 12th largest "city" in the country based on office and retail space or something like that. But that monstrosity sitting down the middle of Rt. 7 is only going to turn the place into a craphole.

Moore Cadillac was smart and cashed out before people realized how horrible the above ground metro was.

Tysons is as much a "downtown" as is Crystal City. By which I mean it isnt and never will be.

God help us all! Can McLean and Vienna be saved, maybe walled off like medieval towns?

"20 years ago, there was actually a nightlife in Tyson's. Now the only place open after midnight, besides 7-11 and McD's, is Clydes"


Oh man, you forgot Chics and Wings? but ain't no chics worth getting excited about and the wings ain't worth getting excited neither and the bathroom situation is a drag

Would work if Tyson if area could be keep free of hispanics and blacks.

Go to Tysons Harris Teeter occasionally the way the hispanic cashier was tatted up looked like a gangbanger


Haven't you been to Tysons 1 in recent years? Crowds are genrally new arrivals in nature. Most of stores I liked at Tysons 1 went away years ago anyways. Even that Barnes and Nobles sucks. The first floor hardly has any books anymore just lots of bric a brac and their i reader sales displays

Tysons Corner was once a nice cow pasture. The cows left but the pods remained and turned into............
well not magic mushrooms.
Thanks Til
Attachments:

Thisguyagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is most likely the same dickhead asshole with
> the name "Tysons Engineer" touting that tysons is
> becoming the next mecca of commerce. Like I've
> continually told you morons though, wait until you
> see the type of crowd that shows up. Most of the
> yuppie crowd that comes right now already have
> cars and would be there anyway. This crowd that
> you are going to bring in from MD will turn tysons
> into the new pentagon city mall and surrounding
> area minus the pentagon part. So basically, you
> will have a drop in customer service when all the
> minimum wage hispanics get replaced with minimum
> wage blacks. "I axed you a queshun! did you want
> ketchup with dat? U betta pay attenshun when I'z
> talking 2 U nikka or Imma show u how we roll in
> PG." Fuck this lib thinking that they can just
> spend more and more money and all of the sudden it
> will create some kind of magic shithole.

First of all you are a racist little prick. Also I didn't write this post. If I write a post it will have my username. Feel free to have someone check the IP you little punk.

This article showed up in the patch, I'm not the kind of person to go around giving free pub to another website that does what I do. And I am definitely not the kind of person to go around doing it not under my username.

Secondly, you dont know anything. What makes you an expert in land development? I've been in the field for two decades. You likely are some internet troll without employment living in your mother's basement. 3 billion dollars in private financing has already flowed into Tysons since 2010. More would have come in if the rezonings weren't delayed by VDOT for "traffic study". When you have billion dollar companies buying in with hundreds of people looking at the viability of a project, I think that outweighs your stupid ass opinion.

Thirdly, you clearly don't know shit because crystal city and pentagon city have vastly improved over the past 10 years and continue to get better.

-The actual Tysons Engineer



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2012 01:15PM by Tysons Engineer.

Why so angry? I'ts such a teeny weeny project compared to Dubai.
Time to grow up.

Irritated tysons chicken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why so angry? I'ts such a teeny weeny project
> compared to Dubai.
> Time to grow up.


Haha, time to grow up. Exactly, time for people who don't understand Tysons and think its a mall to grow up. 20% of Fairfax is employed in Tysons. 25% of the revenue our county attains comes from Tysons. $24 billion in GMP is created in Tysons annually. 8 Fortune 500s call it home. 17,000 people live here (none of whom live anywhere near the strip malls and traffic congested roads that out of towners consider "Tysons".

It is time to grow up and realize that this is a big deal for Fairfax. It's time to grow up and wonder why so many people are cynically about something that they know so little about(perhaps its the GOP Agenda 21 machine calling any form of good planning "central planning"). Its not central planning, its just planning, for once.

Its time to grow up and realize that the public cost for transforming Tysons (a couple of hundred million) is almost negligible when you consider the fact that Tysons real estate revenue alone currently produces $240 million annually and expected to triple over the next 20 years.

Grow up is exactly what people who don't understand land development and planning should do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2012 03:14PM by Tysons Engineer.

Meanwhile along I-66 growth has already occured and most cases matured 15 miles west past the Fairfax/Vienna/GMU Metro Stop yet no one seems to think its time to extend metro further down this corriodor, where the demand for it already exisits.

@ Tyson Engineer

what do you have financially at stake in all of this?

Hay Zeus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ Tyson Engineer
>
> what do you have financially at stake in all of
> this?

No I actually dont. What I have in stake is I have lived in this area for 30 years and seen it fall apart from poor planning. Lack of good housing options have pushed people to either arlington and loudoun and both are making tons of money because no one in fairfax figured out where we fit in.

Finally we are addressing some serious infrastructure needs and housing, creating more business and construction jobs, and people just want to be cynical without any facts or backing. Look at the facts in front of you, and stop making this a stupid xenophoebic black and white issue. Urban areas that are well planned can become huge economic engines.

For 10 years I worked in land development and saw what the problems that came from sprawl subdivision style development. Home builders essentially stole from the pockets of taxpayers by building hundreds of houses without funding infrastructure. This caused huge traffic problems, school problems, etc. I can honestly say now that I no longer work domestically. I work internationally on federal projects.

If you think Tysons is idealistic and not going to work, post your point of view backed by more than stupid racist nonsense. Show how economically it wont. Back it with information not misinformation.

Irritated tysons chicken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why so angry? I'ts such a teeny weeny project
> compared to Dubai.
> Time to grow up.


And I am angry because some piece of shit punk is comparing my in depth discussion of economics and land development in Tysons to the shallow coverage of the patch.

Hey now, I posted this article for everyone to read. It even has a breakout of the stops.

I welcome the metro coming out this way. I don't I can stand too many more days sitting for hours in traffic. Our office used to support telecommuting, but several "former" co-workers abused the priviledge, so we all now have to suffer.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hay Zeus Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > @ Tyson Engineer
> >
> > what do you have financially at stake in all of
> > this?
>
> No I actually dont. What I have in stake is I have
> lived in this area for 30 years and seen it fall
> apart from poor planning. Lack of good housing
> options have pushed people to either arlington and
> loudoun and both are making tons of money because
> no one in fairfax figured out where we fit in.
>
> Finally we are addressing some serious
> infrastructure needs and housing, creating more
> business and construction jobs, and people just
> want to be cynical without any facts or backing.
> Look at the facts in front of you, and stop making
> this a stupid xenophoebic black and white issue.
> Urban areas that are well planned can become huge
> economic engines.
>
> For 10 years I worked in land development and saw
> what the problems that came from sprawl
> subdivision style development. Home builders
> essentially stole from the pockets of taxpayers by
> building hundreds of houses without funding
> infrastructure. This caused huge traffic problems,
> school problems, etc. I can honestly say now that
> I no longer work domestically. I work
> internationally on federal projects.
>
> If you think Tysons is idealistic and not going to
> work, post your point of view backed by more than
> stupid racist nonsense. Show how economically it
> wont. Back it with information not misinformation.


Typical developer view...

Shocker: More =/= Better

Been enough development in fucking fairfax county. To much development period.
Our bullshit on this planet is getting old. Tysons is just a clusterfuck that greedy stupid people are buying into.
How much concrete has to poured until we realize what a major league fuck up?

To the Tysons Engineer, how do you get away with 15 store buildings and maybe fifty parking spaces? I wouldnt live in or near Tysons if you gave me the place.

The only good thing about Tysons "Corner", it's not in Arlington.
And it will always be a Corner.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Irritated tysons chicken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why so angry? I'ts such a teeny weeny project
> > compared to Dubai.
> > Time to grow up.
>
>
> And I am angry because some piece of shit punk is
> comparing my in depth discussion of economics and
> land development in Tysons to the shallow coverage
> of the patch.



I knew me a couple of them engineers a few years back. They were woking on the Apollo spaceship and I knew one or two that designed a space shuttle. You work on buildings that can fly? I like flying. Did a little testing of flying machines in my younger years. Never could sit in one of them buildings to long. Stale air and dirty windows. All you saw was other buildings with dirty windows.
All I know bout buildings is they can get in your way but sometimes at night they make interesting navigation points.

fugedda about it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To the Tysons Engineer, how do you get away with
> 15 store buildings and maybe fifty parking spaces?
> I wouldnt live in or near Tysons if you gave me
> the place.


What are you talking about. The same number of parking spaces will be in place. In fact I still think too many parking spaces will be provided. How in gods name can you look at Tysons which has more parking spaces than anyone could ever want and say man that town needs more parking spaces.

For the record the building I live in has 400 units and well over 1000 parking units. Maybe you should actually read the plans before making up fake numbers. No one is saying there will be "no parking". They are saying some of the wasted space taken up by surface parking will be built into the 25 story buildings over top of them. This isnt that difficult of a concept in my opinion seeing as every urban region in the world does this.

Land = worth a lot a person becomes willing to save space by constructing vertically. Land sells for about 10 million per acre in tysons. That means the surface parking spaces approximately cost 100k when including the drive aisle. A typical parking garage costs about 25k per space, and far less when it is incorporated into the necessary foundation structure of a highrise (usually around 15-20k per space).

The developer reduces the inefficient usage of the land and still provides a substantial ratio for parking.

Flying high over Tysons Corner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tysons Engineer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Irritated tysons chicken Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Why so angry? I'ts such a teeny weeny
> project
> > > compared to Dubai.
> > > Time to grow up.
> >
> >
> > And I am angry because some piece of shit punk
> is
> > comparing my in depth discussion of economics
> and
> > land development in Tysons to the shallow
> coverage
> > of the patch.
>
>
>
> I knew me a couple of them engineers a few years
> back. They were woking on the Apollo spaceship and
> I knew one or two that designed a space shuttle.
> You work on buildings that can fly? I like flying.
> Did a little testing of flying machines in my
> younger years. Never could sit in one of them
> buildings to long. Stale air and dirty windows.
> All you saw was other buildings with dirty
> windows.
> All I know bout buildings is they can get in your
> way but sometimes at night they make interesting
> navigation points.

Wow, great story. And what exactly did you do and what the heck does it have to do with the inevitable truth that cities make money for a region?

Wanna go back over the last 5000 years of mankind and find a situation where that isnt true? I'll be waiting over here for when you splash down from your lunar flashbacks.

-Tysons Engineer evidently chatting it up with the late Neil Armstrong



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2012 09:45PM by Tysons Engineer.

FINALLY my childhood dream of living in an over-priced < 1,000 sq. ft., cookie-cutter condo in Tysons and being able to drag my ass an hour each way every day on Metro to a mid-level bureaucrat job without my feet ever touching grass has come true!

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> If you think Tysons is idealistic and not going to
> work, post your point of view backed by more than
> stupid racist nonsense. Show how economically it
> wont. Back it with information not misinformation.

So, if you've lived here for 30 years then you saw what happened to Springfield Mall, right? METRO opened Franconia-Springfield in June of 1997. Within 5 years the Mall and the surrounding area became an urban wasteland. Oh sure, it's being redeveloped now but, the damage has been done.

Let's not kid ourselves, the priority of the Silver Line is connecting Dulles Airport to downtown Washington, DC which the airport authority stated 40 years ago was what they wanted to do. And as a lifelong NOVA-ist, I support that. Let's also not kid ourselves, the unintended consequences of the Silver Line are going to be what happened to Springfield...happening to Tysons. And as a lifelong NOVA-ist, I don't support that. Not that it matters because it's going to happen regardless of how I feel about it...

Everything...everything was better before.

Why would anyone defend a outhouse? Tysons Corner has been overflowing since the 60's. Area has become a Remora and without Washington it would drop off and die. Nothing to boast about. Wanna be developers continuing to expand a outdated outhouse and patting each others backs because no one else cares.
Hyenas cleaning up. I guess someone has to do it.

Hay Zeus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meanwhile along I-66 growth has already occured
> and most cases matured 15 miles west past the
> Fairfax/Vienna/GMU Metro Stop yet no one seems to
> think its time to extend metro further down this
> corriodor, where the demand for it already
> exisits.


I agree with this, this Dulles connection was strictly to promote more development in Loudon. No one seems to be interested in fixing an existing problem unless it helps the campaign chest out for the next election.

Tysons Engineer - as someone with expertise in this field do you see the Metro Orange line ever being extended to Manassas or beyond?

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> If you think Tysons is idealistic and not going to
> work, post your point of view backed by more than
> stupid racist nonsense. Show how economically it
> wont. Back it with information not misinformation.

The problem with Tyson's Corner (yes, it has an apostrophe) is that people from other places have come in and have all these bright ideas on how they're going to fix it and make it more profitable, and develop the land more smartly.

If you've been here for 30 years, then you should know that Tyson's has a structural problem with traffic, and it stems from the fact that Tyson's has two primary users: office workers, and shoppers. That is why there *used to be* service roads parallel to the main thoroughfare. Route 7 is a commuter route. The service road allowed "local" traffic to stay off the commuter road and still access the retail businesses along Route 7.

Then this multinational consortium came along and was rewarded the contract to build the silver line, and they decided it would be less costly for them to build above ground. So they just erased the service roads on their CAD drawings and plotted the concrete structure right down the middle of Route 7, with absolutely no knowledge of the traffic considerations (and why would they? Bechtel doesn't have offices in Tyson's and they will not be affected.)

That one oversight has basically made Tysons unusable in so many ways. I used to live in Vienna and I could zip in and out of Pike 7 plaza or zoom over to the center where Best Buy is in the peak of rush hour without really having any delay, and also not adding to the volume of traffic on Route 7. That isn't possible now. If you live in Mclean, forget going to Best Buy. There's this huge concrete wall blocking your access, you now have to go several blocks down to the next traffic light and turn around just to get to Best Buy.

Most of the problems being created just seem to stem from the fact that the people imposing their design dreams on Tyson's don't really understand Tyson's, they probably haven't even been to Tyson's. At least, not until they found out they could make a lot of money off of it.

Thank You! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FINALLY my childhood dream of living in an
> over-priced < 1,000 sq. ft., cookie-cutter condo
> in Tysons and being able to drag my ass an hour
> each way every day on Metro to a mid-level
> bureaucrat job without my feet ever touching grass
> has come true!

Idiotic comment. No one is saying living in Tysons makes sense if you work in DC. But if you work in Tysons or the surrounding areas of McLean, Vienna, and Falls Church (you know the combined 150k jobs) then it is actually a very easy to live area. I commute 5 minutes to my office. Are high rises for everyone? No. But there are benefits. 24 hour concierge, surveillance, common areas, roof top pool, high speed internet, underground electric, protected and locked parking garage, walking distance to 50+ restaurants, lounge, and high end finishes in the units.

Enjoy your commute otherwise and your large house. To each their own. But to say that no one likes living in High rises, tell that to most of the world and a large portion of the US that disagrees with you.

Misconcepted and Disconnected Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tysons Engineer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > If you think Tysons is idealistic and not going
> to
> > work, post your point of view backed by more
> than
> > stupid racist nonsense. Show how economically
> it
> > wont. Back it with information not
> misinformation.
>
> The problem with Tyson's Corner (yes, it has an
> apostrophe) is that people from other places have
> come in and have all these bright ideas on how
> they're going to fix it and make it more
> profitable, and develop the land more smartly.
>
> If you've been here for 30 years, then you should
> know that Tyson's has a structural problem with
> traffic, and it stems from the fact that Tyson's
> has two primary users: office workers, and
> shoppers. That is why there *used to be* service
> roads parallel to the main thoroughfare. Route 7
> is a commuter route. The service road allowed
> "local" traffic to stay off the commuter road and
> still access the retail businesses along Route 7.
>
>
> Then this multinational consortium came along and
> was rewarded the contract to build the silver
> line, and they decided it would be less costly for
> them to build above ground. So they just erased
> the service roads on their CAD drawings and
> plotted the concrete structure right down the
> middle of Route 7, with absolutely no knowledge of
> the traffic considerations (and why would they?
> Bechtel doesn't have offices in Tyson's and they
> will not be affected.)
>
> That one oversight has basically made Tysons
> unusable in so many ways. I used to live in
> Vienna and I could zip in and out of Pike 7 plaza
> or zoom over to the center where Best Buy is in
> the peak of rush hour without really having any
> delay, and also not adding to the volume of
> traffic on Route 7. That isn't possible now. If
> you live in Mclean, forget going to Best Buy.
> There's this huge concrete wall blocking your
> access, you now have to go several blocks down to
> the next traffic light and turn around just to get
> to Best Buy.
>
> Most of the problems being created just seem to
> stem from the fact that the people imposing their
> design dreams on Tyson's don't really understand
> Tyson's, they probably haven't even been to
> Tyson's. At least, not until they found out they
> could make a lot of money off of it.

Wow.

No. The access roads have been proven over the last 20 years to destroy traffic conditions not help them. Route 1 heard of it? Still has lots of access roads. It creates disconnected flow, ie more points of conflict which cause congestion. Clearly YOU have never been to Tysons. I live there.

The silver line didnt "destroy" a single one of those access roads btw. Route 7 still has it. Still just as crappy and doesnt work at all.

The point is to address land use and transportation at the same time. Something that works everywhere else in the world. This isnt some magical solution thats based in theory. For once they are doing something based in empirical evidence.

I dunno what else to tell you other than, the way it was going was going to get worse and worse. The people making decisions took on the political risk of addressing it finally before it collapsed under its own inefficiency. You can whine and bitch, but likely you havent dont nearly as much research or living in Tysons as I have, or what the planners who are working on it have. So instead of pretending to be an expert all of a sudden on land development and transportation engineering, why dont you just decide to move or stop bitching.

Or you can continue to blame all the problems of the world on Tysons Corner. God damn that place for employing so many people. Fuck that place for attracting so many major corporate presences to provide high paying jobs. HOW DARE THEY!

Me First Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tysons Engineer - as someone with expertise in
> this field do you see the Metro Orange line ever
> being extended to Manassas or beyond?


The problem is the current culture of funding to Northern virginia. For the past 20 years the ratio of state funds coming to NOVA compared to that leaving NOVA has continued to decrease. In other words in the 80s we use to send Richmond a dollar and receive back 50 cents in state funding. Today we send Richmond a dollar and receive back 19 cents. 11 billion goes to Richmond, 2 billion is spent here.

The state continues to be anti-transit. For whatever reason. it refused to help substantially with Norfolk, it refused to contribute more than 150million to Dulles Rail. Instead it spent 80 million to create a new road to a single development (one loudoun) in Loudoun County. Instead it built the multi-hundred million dollar Coalfields Expressway to help big coal (who evidently has no money) send coal via trucks to the coast... instead of a train line... which would cost far less in fuel.

That being the conditions, any transit improvement in NOVA must find a zero cost solution. IE it has to find a funding source in order to be viable. With Silver Line part of that came from being shovel ready when the feds were handing out stimulus, the other part came from private voluntary taxes from developers, and in phase 2 a large amount is coming from the toll road (though most people are still trying to get the state to pull in their fare share to reduce that amount).

The only way you can get money from private sources is to trade it for something. Developers like density. Why? Because when they pay millions in proffer contributions and special taxes, they need to have profit back to justify it and density does that. Without some form of a revitalization and developer buy in from Fair Lakes land owners, Centreville, and Manassass it is unlikely it will ever occur (atleast not without a Richmond administration that supports transit spending)

My hope is that someone will come to power who understands that you can decrease highway spending if you connect regions like centreville via rail in spot locations. It doesnt work in suburbs because of the low density nature, but if you take it to the dense parts like Fair Lakes and Centreville it could be a sustainable line just like Vienna and WFC are.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank You! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FINALLY my childhood dream of living in an
> > over-priced < 1,000 sq. ft., cookie-cutter
> condo
> > in Tysons and being able to drag my ass an hour
> > each way every day on Metro to a mid-level
> > bureaucrat job without my feet ever touching
> grass
> > has come true!
>
> Idiotic comment. No one is saying living in Tysons
> makes sense if you work in DC. But if you work in
> Tysons or the surrounding areas of McLean, Vienna,
> and Falls Church (you know the combined 150k jobs)
> then it is actually a very easy to live area. I
> commute 5 minutes to my office. Are high rises for
> everyone? No. But there are benefits. 24 hour
> concierge, surveillance, common areas, roof top
> pool, high speed internet, underground electric,
> protected and locked parking garage, walking
> distance to 50+ restaurants, lounge, and high end
> finishes in the units.
>
> Enjoy your commute otherwise and your large house.
> To each their own. But to say that no one likes
> living in High rises, tell that to most of the
> world and a large portion of the US that
> disagrees with you.


Ummm... I work from home for one of those Fortune 500 companies located in Tysons that you like to brag about. As do most others I work with. And I doubt that we'll still have significant space there in 10 years. Maybe less time. That applies to most others now located there too. Sorry, makes no sense these days and less and less so.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Me First Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tysons Engineer - as someone with expertise in
> > this field do you see the Metro Orange line
> ever
> > being extended to Manassas or beyond?
>
>
> The problem is the current culture of funding to
> Northern virginia. For the past 20 years the ratio
> of state funds coming to NOVA compared to that
> leaving NOVA has continued to decrease. In other
> words in the 80s we use to send Richmond a dollar
> and receive back 50 cents in state funding. Today
> we send Richmond a dollar and receive back 19
> cents. 11 billion goes to Richmond, 2 billion is
> spent here.
>
> The state continues to be anti-transit. For
> whatever reason. it refused to help substantially
> with Norfolk, it refused to contribute more than
> 150million to Dulles Rail. Instead it spent 80
> million to create a new road to a single
> development (one loudoun) in Loudoun County.
> Instead it built the multi-hundred million dollar
> Coalfields Expressway to help big coal (who
> evidently has no money) send coal via trucks to
> the coast... instead of a train line... which
> would cost far less in fuel.
>
> That being the conditions, any transit improvement
> in NOVA must find a zero cost solution. IE it has
> to find a funding source in order to be viable.
> With Silver Line part of that came from being
> shovel ready when the feds were handing out
> stimulus, the other part came from private
> voluntary taxes from developers, and in phase 2 a
> large amount is coming from the toll road (though
> most people are still trying to get the state to
> pull in their fare share to reduce that amount).
>
> The only way you can get money from private
> sources is to trade it for something. Developers
> like density. Why? Because when they pay millions
> in proffer contributions and special taxes, they
> need to have profit back to justify it and density
> does that. Without some form of a revitalization
> and developer buy in from Fair Lakes land owners,
> Centreville, and Manassass it is unlikely it will
> ever occur (atleast not without a Richmond
> administration that supports transit spending)
>
> My hope is that someone will come to power who
> understands that you can decrease highway spending
> if you connect regions like centreville via rail
> in spot locations. It doesnt work in suburbs
> because of the low density nature, but if you take
> it to the dense parts like Fair Lakes and
> Centreville it could be a sustainable line just
> like Vienna and WFC are.


If they ran it to Manassas that would be a huge deal.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> then it is actually a very easy to live area. I
False, unless you are a millionaire.

> commute 5 minutes to my office. Are high rises for
> everyone? No. But there are benefits. 24 hour
> concierge, surveillance, common areas, roof top
> pool, high speed internet, underground electric,
> protected and locked parking garage, walking
> distance to 50+ restaurants, lounge, and high end
> finishes in the units.

Like I said, millionaire stuff right here. And those 50+ restaurants also cost $70 per person. The ones that don't will soon enough. And a locked parking garage? Really? Because you're afraid of the all the 13 year old hoodlums running around Tysons? Wait until that metro is done, then you won't be able to walk to your fancy restaurants. Your locked video surveillance garages will be decorations when you bring in the real criminal element with that metro extension.

> Enjoy your commute otherwise and your large house.
> To each their own. But to say that no one likes
> living in High rises, tell that to most of the
> world and a large portion of the US that
> disagrees with you.

Past 30, no one wants to live in a million dollar box anymore. You'd rather have the freedom not to hear people's kids running around upstairs. Large portion of the US? No, theres probably only 5 of you.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clearly YOU have never been to Tysons. I live
> there.

Based on your high and mighty asshole tone, you clearly have the money to live there. You probably also speak arabic or iranian.

> The silver line didnt "destroy" a single one of
> those access roads btw. Route 7 still has it.
> Still just as crappy and doesnt work at all.

False. You must be one of the new people that moved here to build the shit hole buildings around here. They actually did work until the metro construction cut them up to hell. They used to run entire blocks but now they really don't do anything because the remaining segments are just extended lanes for parking lots.

> The point is to address land use and
> transportation at the same time. Something that
> works everywhere else in the world. This isnt some
> magical solution thats based in theory. For once
> they are doing something based in empirical
> evidence.

Another study like the ones Obama pulls out of his ass.

> you havent dont nearly as much research or
> living in Tysons as I have
> So instead of
> pretending to be an expert all of a sudden on land
> development and transportation engineering, why
> dont you just decide to move or stop bitching.

^High and mighty. Definitely a foreigner driving a leased M3 living in a rented high rise.

There is nothing wrong with Tyson's Corner
that 8.5 magnitude earthquake couldn't adjust.
America could be beautiful once more.

I know, think about what it cost to live in that area. It's just not worth it. pain in the ass if you ask me.

Whatttttttttttts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tysons Engineer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > then it is actually a very easy to live area. I
> False, unless you are a millionaire.
>
> > commute 5 minutes to my office. Are high rises
> for
> > everyone? No. But there are benefits. 24 hour
> > concierge, surveillance, common areas, roof top
> > pool, high speed internet, underground
> electric,
> > protected and locked parking garage, walking
> > distance to 50+ restaurants, lounge, and high
> end
> > finishes in the units.
>
> Like I said, millionaire stuff right here. And
> those 50+ restaurants also cost $70 per person.
> The ones that don't will soon enough. And a
> locked parking garage? Really? Because you're
> afraid of the all the 13 year old hoodlums running
> around Tysons? Wait until that metro is done,
> then you won't be able to walk to your fancy
> restaurants. Your locked video surveillance
> garages will be decorations when you bring in the
> real criminal element with that metro extension.
>
> > Enjoy your commute otherwise and your large
> house.
> > To each their own. But to say that no one likes
> > living in High rises, tell that to most of the
> > world and a large portion of the US that
> > disagrees with you.
>
> Past 30, no one wants to live in a million dollar
> box anymore. You'd rather have the freedom not to
> hear people's kids running around upstairs. Large
> portion of the US? No, theres probably only 5 of
> you.

There are plenty of people who live in cities. Arlington has lots of people with highschool aged kids in high rises. I think he is saying that its not everyones cup of tea but its just as comfortable for people who like short commutes and things to do close instead of people who need space and a lawn.

I know this sounds crazy but 25-35% of the population could care less about a lawn. Some people prefer living in a city where there is stuff to do. Also I live in Tysons, my condo costs 320k and is a two bedroom and has 1200 sf, the same size as some smaller townhomes. Its comfortable and I dont plan on moving out even when our child grows up. If I had 3 or 4 kids it might be a problem, but its plenty of space for a small family.

People who talk smack about hi-rises are the same people who can't understand why a sport wagon is a better family transportation choice than a full-size SUV.

Yeah, but at least in Arlington you have shit to do. Tyson's just does not have that vibe..Not giving you crap, just never looked at tysons as a place to go and have fun.

the confessor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, but at least in Arlington you have shit to
> do. Tyson's just does not have that vibe..Not
> giving you crap, just never looked at tysons as a
> place to go and have fun.


20 years ago, it was a place to go and have fun. Now it is a nightmare traffice mess during the day, and a ghost town after 10pm.

And Tyson's Engineer is obviously lying about living there for 30 years if he thinks the service roads didn't help separate commuter and shopper traffic. Who cares about Rt 1, that is a completely different story.

the confessor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, but at least in Arlington you have shit to
> do. Tyson's just does not have that vibe..Not
> giving you crap, just never looked at tysons as a
> place to go and have fun.


I appreciate you aren't just attack mode like some of the rabid commenters here. Yes, no one denies that Tysons is not the best place in Fairfax right now. Hell its not even as good as Vienna or Merrifield when it comes to an urban vibe. But based on whats coming down the pipeline I agree that the changes will be rapid because private developers are for this, and have financial backing, and are providing a lot of the stuff that makes Reston Town Center great, and Arlington great. Route 7 and Route 123 will always looks like a paved jungle, but no one in Tysons lives in those areas. And all of the new buildings will have their backs to those roads.

We live on Greensboro and Westpark and Spring Hill, and Boone. I know this sounds shocking, but we already live near stuff, just not the stuff that most people know about. And those options are already increasing with a couple of projects currently under construction. This isn't some dream down the line, I'm watching the buildings going up and seeing the stores they will have and all that stuff.

Tysons is a fixer upper. You buy in now because frankly if you buy later it will be at Arlington prices. There is a risk to this because you have to wait a couple years, hear all the mocking, and all that. But then again I remember back when Arlington was an S-hole when I was a teenager. Hell I remember when Columbia Heights was a good place to get murdered on a saturday now every hipster in a scarf calls it home. Its all part of the development cycle.

What goes up, eventually falls down.

History lesson 101 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What goes up, eventually falls down.

Pyramids, Great Wall, New York City, London

Eventually it might, but then again if that happens your probably long dead (hopefully sooner than later in your case)

I have no idea why people are giving you shit. You do have a valid point.
I just have avoided the area after getting stuck in traffic everytime i'm in Tyson's.
Then again, where can you go with out that happening in this area?
I don't see it, but I do appreciate the positive attitude. You never know.

Fixer Upper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> History lesson 101 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What goes up, eventually falls down.
>
> Pyramids, Great Wall, New York City, London
>
> Eventually it might, but then again if that
> happens your probably long dead (hopefully sooner
> than later in your case)


You are correct about Pyramids.Hand Built using slave labor and solid material
placed into position with basic measurements and tools. Without computers.
The Great Wall was built similarly Incredible what sweat equity accomplishes.
London is a very old and historical city like others in Europe and built solidly and withstood wars and a bombing blitz. 1,000 years of public sewage and still smells.
New York City is new (hence the name) and buildings not quite 100 years old are being torn down annually. And "9/11"?
Tyson's Corner was a gas station and rural store that had slot machines.
Later a sophisticated mall was added and now everyone shows up for the late show. Poor designing and dumbass developers,architects and engineers trying to improve an area that has been played out, I hope what they call buildings outlast me. American buildings have an average life span of 50 years. Check it out. Americans are a buy today throw away tomorrow society. For a pioneering society we sure have become a bunch of rats nesting like many parts of the world we seem to detest.

What goes up (in America) eventually comes down.
I stand corrected ,Sir

Correction Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fixer Upper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > History lesson 101 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What goes up, eventually falls down.
> >
> > Pyramids, Great Wall, New York City, London
> >
> > Eventually it might, but then again if that
> > happens your probably long dead (hopefully
> sooner
> > than later in your case)
>
>
> You are correct about Pyramids.Hand Built using
> slave labor and solid material
> placed into position with basic measurements and
> tools. Without computers.
> The Great Wall was built similarly Incredible what
> sweat equity accomplishes.
> London is a very old and historical city like
> others in Europe and built solidly and withstood
> wars and a bombing blitz. 1,000 years of public
> sewage and still smells.
> New York City is new (hence the name) and
> buildings not quite 100 years old are being torn
> down annually. And "9/11"?
> Tyson's Corner was a gas station and rural store
> that had slot machines.
> Later a sophisticated mall was added and now
> everyone shows up for the late show. Poor
> designing and dumbass developers,architects and
> engineers trying to improve an area that has been
> played out, I hope what they call buildings
> outlast me. American buildings have an average
> life span of 50 years. Check it out. Americans are
> a buy today throw away tomorrow society. For a
> pioneering society we sure have become a bunch of
> rats nesting like many parts of the world we seem
> to detest.
>
> What goes up (in America) eventually comes down.
> I stand corrected ,Sir

You point to buildings in new york being torn down in 1 century, but there are still buildings in the US that through preservation do exist longer than that.

Now more important than your retort about how concrete rebar life cycle is 50 years is the idea that cities that are built eventually come down. London has existed for a millenium, New York City will likely last longer. Will buildings keep being shuffled in and out? Yes that is the nature of private land development, but it doesnt mean that "everything will come down".

PS while building life cycles in the US are designed to 50-yrs they last far longer than that with some maintenance. It is an issue of whether the maintenance of the building at that decision point is a better economic situation or demolition and new building.

all very facinating................

still a buncha bullshit that Tysons is the new "downtown", however

Proof, Gordon?

Well, last I checked it aint the Tysons Redskins, correx?

Dont think there are any non-stop flights scheduled today that say Heathrow to Tysons Corner on the ticket, am I right?

RT24 and CNN aint brodcasting "Live from Tysons" to the rest of the world, k?

It's a really cute idea and everything...............but seriously? Tysons is the new downtown only in the minds of people who would still sale you a DiTech loan if they could LoLz. In other words, the idea is
Attachments:

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> all very facinating................
>
> still a buncha bullshit that Tysons is the new
> "downtown", however
>
> Proof, Gordon?
>
> Well, last I checked it aint the Tysons Redskins,
> correx?
>
> Dont think there are any non-stop flights
> scheduled today that say Heathrow to Tysons Corner
> on the ticket, am I right?
>
> RT24 and CNN aint brodcasting "Live from Tysons"
> to the rest of the world, k?
>
> It's a really cute idea and
> everything...............but seriously? Tysons is
> the new downtown only in the minds of people who
> would still sale you a DiTech loan if they could
> LoLz. In other words, the idea is


The concept is stupid. G Gordon was wrong to say that DC is the new suburb. What is more accurate is to say that Fairfax is now a metro region in its own rights capable of competing against DC not as overflow to DC but on its own economy, businesses, and fundamentals. DC will basically see something similar to Charlotte NC grow right next to it, and its already scaring officials in DC.

To a few of GBs points.

1) DC has no airports either. National, DCs airport, much like the Pentagon is located in NOVA and just as close to Tysons as it is to K street (DCs commercial business district).

2) The redskins should be called the Landover Redskins, its not like they play in DC anymore nor is there any particular increase in value to DC when a redskins game occur.

3) In 5-10 years Tysons will not look very much like it does today. The issue lost in all of this is that the fundamentals of Fairfax are strikingly similar to the fundamentals of DC as a whole. For the past 20 years DC has been using the beneficial statistics of including Arlington and Fairfax into it's numbers to show it as a more powerful economic player than it really is.

Removal of Fairfax, Arlington, and MoCo would leave DC as barely in the top 30 of metro regions by population, commercial space and value, GMP, definitely out of the running for education, crime, and ethnic diversity.

In every way Fairfax, while it doesnt look like the prototypical city yet, trumps DC and props up DC's statistics in those fields (hence why they keep lumping us into DC).

The real message being made from Fairfax is, we arent DC, so stop using our achievements in DC stats and start recognizing we are a metro region.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2012 10:54AM by Tysons Engineer.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The concept is stupid. G Gordon was wrong to say
> that DC is the new suburb. What is more accurate
> is to say that Fairfax is now a metro region in
> its own rights capable of competing against DC not
> as overflow to DC but on its own economy,
> businesses, and fundamentals. DC will basically
> see something similar to Charlotte NC grow right
> next to it, and its already scaring officials in
> DC.

Obviously you are a transplant to this area. DC is the only reason Tyson's exists, and it is the only reason it will continue to grow. If the federal government were to relocate to another region, Tyson's would shrivel up and die.

Why do you think SAIC and Booz Allen are in Tyson's? Because of the amazing business opportunities provided BY Tyson's or because it is conveniently located near the main arteries that lead directly to their primary customers, DOD, DOS and DHS?


>
> To a few of GBs points.
>
> 1) DC has no airports either. National, DCs
> airport, much like the Pentagon is located in NOVA
> and just as close to Tysons as it is to K street
> (DCs commercial business district).
>

Just as close to Tyson's as to K st? Nope. Sorry. Get out of Tyson's a bit more. K St is a lot closer to Reagan than Tyson's is.

> 2) The redskins should be called the Landover
> Redskins, its not like they play in DC anymore nor
> is there any particular increase in value to DC
> when a redskins game occur.
>

who cares about sports teams. irrelevant.

> 3) In 5-10 years Tysons will not look very much
> like it does today. The issue lost in all of this
> is that the fundamentals of Fairfax are strikingly
> similar to the fundamentals of DC as a whole. For
> the past 20 years DC has been using the beneficial
> statistics of including Arlington and Fairfax into
> it's numbers to show it as a more powerful
> economic player than it really is.
>

You have everything backwards there. Tyson's exists BECAUSE of DC. Plain and simple. Like you say yourself, Fairfax's fundamentals are similar to DC's, because the economy of this entire area is dominated by, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.


> Removal of Fairfax, Arlington, and MoCo would
> leave DC as barely in the top 30 of metro regions
> by population, commercial space and value, GMP,
> definitely out of the running for education,
> crime, and ethnic diversity.
>

Removing those areas would also remove the bedrooms of all the employees who drive into DC every morning to work.


> In every way Fairfax, while it doesnt look like
> the prototypical city yet, trumps DC and props up
> DC's statistics in those fields (hence why they
> keep lumping us into DC).
>

It goes both ways.

> The real message being made from Fairfax is, we
> arent DC, so stop using our achievements in DC
> stats and start recognizing we are a metro region.

I live in a 200+ year old house and it was built with wood. Modern engineering using concrete, steel and computers can only design and build structures with average lifespan of 50 fucking years. Embarrassing. Hell, my car is older than Tyson's Corner.
Try using a Slipstick and dumpy level next time. Might be able to add a couple more years before you tear down and waste more concrete.
Maybe work with a builder instead of greedy developers who can not see past their dick size.
Tyson's Corner doesn't roll off the palette like Alexandria or Paris.
Money isn't everything when you waste earth and materials.

50 years? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Money isn't everything when you waste earth and
> materials.

But that is the basis of our consumption economy!

Creative Destruction Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 50 years? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Money isn't everything when you waste earth and
> > materials.
>
> But that is the basis of our consumption economy!

We have to destroy a country to prove we're right.
We should soon be consuming concrete for breakfast.
Waste not, want not.


and Tyson's Corner is one ugly fucking outhouse.

@Engineer Tysons

1st of all, I have lived in Fairfax County my entire life, since the early 80s. I am a true Fairfax resident and I love this place unlike the assholes that come here to steal jobs and complain about how awful it is here with all this good job market, education, and relative safety.

Secondly, Oh well there you have it the definitive guide to Fairfax's economy from someone who thinks the only businesses in town are SAIC and Booz Allen.

35% of Booz Allens business comes from private side commercial projects (I have several friends who work on this side and they say the federal proximity is not any part of what they work with).

While you are at it why dont you point out to other companies though?

AOL, the 1300 non-federal support tech firms in western fairfax, Capital One, Mars Chocolate, Cardinal, INOVA, Kaiser, Hilton.

You are pointing out the fact that yes obviously NOVA has a connection economically to the government. No fucking shit. Who is arguing that? No one logical. But you negate the fact that, assume the government suddenly cut 50% of its spending (hahahaha hilarious but hypothetical). DC's economy is almost 100% based on the government. Its tech industry is a joke, it has no biomedical research. It has nothing without the government.

Fairfax and NOVA on the other hand have several other industries. Would the economy be hurt? Yea of course, but we are not just "federal spillover" for DC.

I dunno what else to say about it. I am not blind to think that Fairfax is a better city aesthetically, or comfort wise, or culturally. But those things are not what creates a city in the historical context. Commerce is the forefront of cities otherwise we'd all live in the woods and live in communes right?

Tysons and Fairfax as a whole is really fucking good at making commerce, with or without the government next door. You say if you remove the counties from Washington Metro that you would still have everyone going into DC to work.

I hate to break it to you but the majority of Fairfax residents work inside of Fairfax.

There are 1.1 million residents and 750,000 jobs. Not everyone in Fairfax works in DC. In fact I bet most people currently on this thread dont work in DC. There is an economic shift occurring here whether you believe it or not.

I dont really understand why anyone in Fairfax would be against Fairfax becoming more powerful economically and being able to stand apart from the government. It shields us more from the political whims of the idiots in DC. By diversifying and continuing to grow who works here and what they do it will make us a stronger area and less dependent on federal cheese, something that I think democrats and republicans should both agree in Fairfax is a better situation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2012 01:01PM by Tysons Engineer.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Engineer Tysons
>

> 35% of Booz Allens business comes from private
> side commercial projects (I have several friends
> who work on this side and they say the federal
> proximity is not any part of what they work
> with).


No way. Until the middle of last year Booz had a non-compete with the commercial division (Booz and Company) that they split off when Carlyle took over. Their commercial revenues are trivial in the scheme of things at this point. The company would not exist if not for its Federal work.

Sorry... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tysons Engineer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > @Engineer Tysons
> >
>
> > 35% of Booz Allens business comes from private
> > side commercial projects (I have several
> friends
> > who work on this side and they say the federal
> > proximity is not any part of what they work
> > with).
>
>
> No way. Until the middle of last year Booz had a
> non-compete with the commercial division (Booz and
> Company) that they split off when Carlyle took
> over. Their commercial revenues are trivial in
> the scheme of things at this point. The company
> would not exist if not for its Federal work.

Not what I heard, again from people who actually work in the commercial division. Are you a high up there and want to enlighten us with alternate numbers? I know several senior associates

Sorry... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tysons Engineer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > @Engineer Tysons
> >
>
> > 35% of Booz Allens business comes from private
> > side commercial projects (I have several
> friends
> > who work on this side and they say the federal
> > proximity is not any part of what they work
> > with).
>
>
> No way. Until the middle of last year Booz had a
> non-compete with the commercial division (Booz and
> Company) that they split off when Carlyle took
> over. Their commercial revenues are trivial in
> the scheme of things at this point. The company
> would not exist if not for its Federal work.

Also, ignoring that you still dont address the 700,000 jobs not associated with Booz and SAIC in this county. Hell even without Northrup, BAE, and Mitre jobs in Fairfax would still be around 650,000.

We have a diverse economy that of course would be affected by swings in the government, but every year that dynamic continues to shift further away as our economy becomes more self reliant. I forgot to mention companies like Ernst, Baker Tilly, Deloitte in accounting. Or how about construction Bechtel, Dewberry, Bowman, Brinker. How about the teachers, firemen, police? Our 1st responders and emergency personel are known around the world for disasters.

Again, Fairfax is more than just spillover for DC, and anyone who wants to just keep suckling on DC is likely just a short timer here who wants their buck and to get the fuck out. To that I say, lets help you get started a bit earlier.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tysons Engineer Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > @Engineer Tysons
> > >
> >
> > > 35% of Booz Allens business comes from
> private
> > > side commercial projects (I have several
> > friends
> > > who work on this side and they say the
> federal
> > > proximity is not any part of what they work
> > > with).
> >
> >
> > No way. Until the middle of last year Booz had
> a
> > non-compete with the commercial division (Booz
> and
> > Company) that they split off when Carlyle took
> > over. Their commercial revenues are trivial in
> > the scheme of things at this point. The
> company
> > would not exist if not for its Federal work.
>
> Not what I heard, again from people who actually
> work in the commercial division. Are you a high up
> there and want to enlighten us with alternate
> numbers? I know several senior associates


Beyond that someone in my family works there and I work for one of their competitors and very familiar with the company and market, you can go look at their annual report or simply search for related news reports, e.g.,:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/09/AR2011020906058.html

"Booz Allen Hamilton ready to compete again as profits soar


By Marjorie Censer
Capital Business Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 9, 2011; 7:41 PM

Contracting giant Booz Allen Hamilton, which recently went public, expects to have a much larger market to pursue this summer when a non-compete agreement with its now-separate commercial unit Booz & Co. expires.

The company separated its government and commercial businesses in 2008, selling a majority stake in the government unit to District private-equity firm Carlyle Group.

McLean-based Booz Allen Hamilton said the non-compete agreement between the two companies is set to end July 31. The expiration of the deal comes as the government contractor is already off to a strong start as a public company..."


No way in hell they are even close to 35% in a year. They didn't even really get rolling with it beyond planning and build out until earlier this year. If I had to guess I'd say maybe you misunderstood some internal target for an eventual percentage of the business.

Same with all of the rest that you listed. None would be around without the Federal government. It's the sole reason that they are here and as large as they are.

> Misconcepted and Disconnected Wrote:
>
> The silver line didnt "destroy" a single one of
> those access roads btw. Route 7 still has it.
> Still just as crappy and doesnt work at all.
>

Thats just not true at all, the vast majority of access lanes on route 7 are now the actual lanes on route 7. The only real access road that still exists on 7 that I can think of is directly across from tysons where theres some jewelry shops and a couple restaurants. There might be some other somewhere, but the one that connected shopping center to shopping center straight down the line does not exist any more, and now requires you to enter regular route 7 traffic, and make a u-turn back into route 7 traffic, if you want to get to say Best Buy from Gosnell road.

Yes, the silver line destroyed that road.

@T.E. - not against Fairfax being a "powerhouse". I'm just saying calling ANY of the suburbs the "New Downtown" is just ludicrous.

The examples you point out back this up. The "Landover Redskins"? Teams been out there two decades and HQ has been in VA since before the war. BUT THERE IS NOT A SOUL ON THE PLANET THAT DOES NOT ASSOCIATE THE TEAM WITH THE CITY OF DC.

You bring up construction, teachers, firemen and police, ALL OF WHOM would be out a gig if the Fed Govt moved to Wichita tomorrow. If you wanna be blind to that out of some sorta Fairfax Pride, then that's all good for you - but it's stupid, and CERTAINLY not good business to act like working WITH the metropolitan region as a whole is a negative thing.

p.s. Newark's the largest city in New Jersey. NOT THE CENTERPIECE OF THE AREA UP THERE, get my drift?

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @T.E. - not against Fairfax being a "powerhouse".
> I'm just saying calling ANY of the suburbs the
> "New Downtown" is just ludicrous.
>
> The examples you point out back this up. The
> "Landover Redskins"? Teams been out there two
> decades and HQ has been in VA since before the
> war. BUT THERE IS NOT A SOUL ON THE PLANET THAT
> DOES NOT ASSOCIATE THE TEAM WITH THE CITY OF DC.
>
>
> You bring up construction, teachers, firemen and
> police, ALL OF WHOM would be out a gig if the Fed
> Govt moved to Wichita tomorrow. If you wanna be
> blind to that out of some sorta Fairfax Pride,
> then that's all good for you - but it's stupid,
> and CERTAINLY not good business to act like
> working WITH the metropolitan region as a whole is
> a negative thing.
>
> p.s. Newark's the largest city in New Jersey.
> NOT THE CENTERPIECE OF THE AREA UP THERE, get my
> drift?

GB, no one is denying that if the federal government suddenly moved to Wichita that fairfax would not be in trouble. BUT you are missing the point. If the feds moved out of DC? DC would gone. It would literally have 0 business.

See there is a difference that is nuanced that you are not admitting. Fairfax's business is currently 50% federal and 50% non federal. Your point is that well the non-federal can exist because of all the money being made from federal. But what it ignores is without the federal government this region has a good history of banking and financials, highly educated, wealthy and entrepreneurial people. It has a tech corridor that is established with all of the infrastructure you need (airport, fiberoptics). Even without DC this area isnt a bad spot to create business.

Maybe you dont understand that. Maybe no one in this area realizes what they are sitting on, but maybe what you should be asking is not what distinguishes this place from DC, but what makes it any different than Palo Alto? Almost the exact same dynamics. Yet everyone wants to point to DC and say oh well theres all the jobs.

Again, Government moves to wichita means DC is far more decimated than Fairfax. Name me ANY serious companies in DC not there because of the federal government.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @T.E. - not against Fairfax being a "powerhouse".
> I'm just saying calling ANY of the suburbs the
> "New Downtown" is just ludicrous.
>
> The examples you point out back this up. The
> "Landover Redskins"? Teams been out there two
> decades and HQ has been in VA since before the
> war. BUT THERE IS NOT A SOUL ON THE PLANET THAT
> DOES NOT ASSOCIATE THE TEAM WITH THE CITY OF DC.
>
>
> You bring up construction, teachers, firemen and
> police, ALL OF WHOM would be out a gig if the Fed
> Govt moved to Wichita tomorrow. If you wanna be
> blind to that out of some sorta Fairfax Pride,
> then that's all good for you - but it's stupid,
> and CERTAINLY not good business to act like
> working WITH the metropolitan region as a whole is
> a negative thing.
>
> p.s. Newark's the largest city in New Jersey.
> NOT THE CENTERPIECE OF THE AREA UP THERE, get my
> drift?


And for the 5000th time, I think what the patch said, and what ffx officials said is stupid. No Fairfax is not the new downtown, and DC is not the suburbs. But people need to stop thinking that Fairfax is 100% reliant on DC. It simply is not backed by what the current jobs and economy in Fairfax. Its heavily, extremely heavily even, but not 100%. And Tysons should have never been said. It should have been left at Fairfax Metropolitan region. That would have been a more cogent argument.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2012 03:22PM by Tysons Engineer.

Tysons Engineer () "If the feds moved out of DC? DC would gone. It would literally have 0 business."

Don't discount the Crack dealers & Whores.



Godry,
I am, becasue you are.

HOA MGR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tysons Engineer () "If the feds moved out of DC?
> DC would gone. It would literally have 0
> business."
>
> Don't discount the Crack dealers & Whores.
>
>
>
> Godry,
> I am, becasue you are.

+1000

Tysons Engineer = M3 Driving Yuppie

Tyson's Corner ain't cool.

Tyson's corner just does not have it. Nothing that I would go to. maybe i'm wrong and need to get out more.

I was in Atlanta a few years back and this development kind of reminds me of the layout there. There is a dedicated downtown area in the middle with lil mini cities around their beltway.

This type of set up makes more sense here because the MD, DC and VA are run by different governments. So with having little urban areas surrounding a major downtown city. WRT business development it will create a more competitive commerical real estate market as companies will have better options for space.

could care less about it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tyson's corner just does not have it. Nothing that
> I would go to. maybe i'm wrong and need to get out
> more.


Restaurants are okay, theater sucks, traffic sucks, overall it sucks. Stay home, shop online safe time and money.

yeah.......the "Fairfax" metropolitan area!!! Cornerstone of the World, I tells ya!!! Tokyo. Paris. New York. Chantilly! ROFLMAO!!!!!!

Nolan BrokeBox Malloy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tysons Engineer = M3 Driving Yuppie


Not that it changes anything (because you are an ignorant little basement dweller most likely who is just jealous of people with money, of which I am not one btw) but I drive a 2005 Honda Civic with a big dent in it from when ice fell off my brothers townhouse roof during snowmaggedon and 150k miles. Its worth about 4000 dollars, and thats the way I like it.

I am actually about the cheapest frugal dude you'd ever meet. But then again, that wouldn't fit your nice little stereotype that you are such an expert on the people in Fairfax.

I live in a condo that is likely a lot less expensive than what most of the people "saying million dollar box" are living in themselves. I chose to live in a condo because it is close to where I work, I didnt want to over extend with a mortgage, and because it has very low upkeep cost. I could have easily purchased a big ass house in the boonies, I chose not to because I like being frugal and honestly I don't need that much space. It would have just been to brag about how big of a house I have.

I also generally wear 10 dollar hoodies as my go to clothing choice when Im not in the office, though my office is not lax enough to allow that during work hours. Not sure that would constitute a yuppie outfit. Stereotypes and distraction are the tools of the weak and those without a valid argument to stand on.

Any other questions you have about me?

Nolan BrokeBox Malloy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> could care less about it Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tyson's corner just does not have it. Nothing
> that
> > I would go to. maybe i'm wrong and need to get
> out
> > more.
>
>
> Restaurants are okay, theater sucks, traffic
> sucks, overall it sucks. Stay home, shop online
> safe time and money.

Shocker, once again the biggest hatred is about the mall.

Not sure how the fuck to get this through your little internet troll brain.

Tysons mall is a thing. Tysons is another thing that encompasses Tysons mall. Tysons is 2000 acres, the mall is about 80 acres. You hate the mall? Cool we have something in common. I hardly ever go there, especially not when every god damn person in the region is there shopping. What are your thoughts about the 200 jobs that Monster employs in Tysons? Or the 500 by deloitte? or 100 by Redhat, 1200 by Booz?

For an election season where everyone says jobs are the most important thing, you people sure don't seem to care how they get created or where they are located. Jobs are infintely more important than how people feel about going to a movie theater. Who the hell goes to movie theaters any more anyways? Your the dumbass shelling out 12 bucks to see the same movie you can watch at home and then complaining about it.

Again, mall = 1% of Tysons. What are your thoughts on being employed at Greensboro Drive? What are your thoughts on your tax rate not having to increase as much as Loudouns did after the housing collapse? Do you actually have any valid points to make other than your teenage complaints about the level of quality of a mall (that is the most successful in the mid-atlantic btw).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2012 09:40PM by Tysons Engineer.

Ok, Great jobs are in tyson's. what else is going on? Not saying you are wrong to live close to work, I know I would. But what else is going on in tyson's corner beside good jobs and living close to work? what makes it a good place to visit?

not ball busting, just asking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, Great jobs are in tyson's. what else is going
> on? Not saying you are wrong to live close to
> work, I know I would. But what else is going on in
> tyson's corner beside good jobs and living close
> to work? what makes it a good place to visit?

Now that is actually a damn good question!

Its centrally located. Makes it easy to go to Arlington and DC on the weekends. There are some good restaurants if you look and avoid the mall. People complain its all franchises but there are some damn good places if you look. Panache, Chef Geoffs, Harth, Diya, Italian Gardens. Vienna right down the road also has a lot of good restaurants.

But in general, the response I tell people who ask if they should live in Tysons is, if you are looking for the Arlington experience today, then no you shouldnt. It simply isnt there yet. But that is a short term issue. Like I said Arbor Row is just 1 of 12 projects in the next 5 years being built that include multiple high rises (basically each project is the equivalent of one reston town center). At the bottom of these high rises is retail space.

I have spoken to the developers of these projects and they say they are marketing towards small spaces not the Targets or big retailers of the world. Because the mall already is saturated with this form. What does this mean? The biggest complaint about these type of developments is they have generic yuppie stores that anchor them. In Tysons all that stuff exists, the new stuff will have to be innovative spaces and their size being smaller will encourage small businesses, local bars, local restaurants etc. The lease rates will be LESS than in Arlington so it will attract business owners who can't afford to open their bar/restaurant/store in Arlington or DC.

The answer is;

Nothing is really here in Tysons. Everyone knows it is still a wasteland today by conventional terms. But that stuff is changing ridiculously fast, and instead of other areas like Columbia Heights and Merrifield where the change just brings new big anchor stores, it will have a more unique vibe. Is that a 100% lock? No, it could turn out that the stores and bars are still lame. But when you make small spaces with lesser lease rates it spurs innovation and new stuff thats not just a repeat and those are the conditions that many of these projects will end up with.

Thank you for a honest answer to my question. The majority of people are busting on you for no good reason, again, thanks.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> But in general, the response I tell people who ask
> if they should live in Tysons is, if you are
> looking for the Arlington experience today, then
> no you shouldnt. It simply isnt there yet.


The "Arlington Experience." LOL!

I know what you're trying to say but being a lonnnggg-time resident of the area that one made me laugh. You know it's bad when Arlington is your goal post. lmao

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Also, ignoring that you still dont address the
> 700,000 jobs not associated with Booz and SAIC in
> this county. Hell even without Northrup, BAE, and
> Mitre jobs in Fairfax would still be around
> 650,000.


A lot of the jobs that are not defense contracting related are lobbying related. Volkswagen didn't move their US headquarters here for any other reason than for access to legislators and regulators.

You mentioned Mars in an earlier comment. I'm not sure why they maintain their headquarters in McLean, maybe it's really just the office where their lawyers and accountants prepare and file SEC filings?

6885 Elm St.
McLean, VA 22101-3810

It definitely isn't a corporate HQ, it's a leased space in a building that houses mostly settlement companies and real estate agents.

>
> We have a diverse economy that of course would be
> affected by swings in the government, but every
> year that dynamic continues to shift further away
> as our economy becomes more self reliant.

It will never be fully self-reliant. It will always shrivel up and die if the government were to ever relocate to another region. That's just the way it is.

It definitely is not the same as it was from 1950 - 1995. Data transmission and hosting facilities and internet-related firms are a growing portion of the economy. Even those are here, one way or another, because of the federal government. UUNet was a big attractor, as was the fact that 95% of transatlantic data once flowed through a parking garage in Tyson's Corner. But again, that all stemmed from the Federal Government.

> I forgot
> to mention companies like Ernst, Baker Tilly,
> Deloitte in accounting. Or how about construction
> Bechtel, Dewberry, Bowman, Brinker. How about the
> teachers, firemen, police? Our 1st responders and
> emergency personel are known around the world for
> disasters.
>

Corporate Consultants and Accounting Firms are here because they have customers with huge cash inflow, coming from Federal contracts.

Next you're going to say that there's a lot of lawyers here, proving that our economy doesn't rely on the Federal Government. Except that probaly 65 to 70% of them are either M&A or P&T attorneys and practices.

As far as our SRT team. Something to be proud of, but hardly anything to do with the economic engine that keeps this area moving.

> Again, Fairfax is more than just spillover for DC,
> and anyone who wants to just keep suckling on DC
> is likely just a short timer here who wants their
> buck and to get the fuck out. To that I say, lets
> help you get started a bit earlier.

I'm with you on that. But you cannot imagine this area as anything other than a huge bedroom for DC, and not spillover, but the headquarters of the giant siphon that sucks all the tax money from the Federal Government.

Oh yeah, I forgot. Bechtel and Washington Group International probably will not stick around once the Silver Line is completed.

Bottom line is you have people who live for work,in an area that is filled with that attitude? Fuck that shit! keep it.

I also believe that a significant increase in crime comes with those Metro Stations when they open. It will not completely be a colorless and odorless event since the lack of ambition is statistically represented in our nations prisons. However, The skilled pickpockets travel in small groups and are wise to stereotyping.

Having been robbed on a station platform before, the face of crime also resembles a well dressed group of young liberals.

Angry White Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Having been robbed on a station platform before,
> the face of crime also resembles a well dressed
> group of young liberals.


Did they explain their political views to you while robbing you, or did you just assume they were liberal?

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nolan BrokeBox Malloy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > could care less about it Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Tyson's corner just does not have it. Nothing
> > that
> > > I would go to. maybe i'm wrong and need to
> get
> > out
> > > more.
> >
> >
> > Restaurants are okay, theater sucks, traffic
> > sucks, overall it sucks. Stay home, shop online
> > safe time and money.
>
> Shocker, once again the biggest hatred is about
> the mall.
>
> Not sure how the fuck to get this through your
> little internet troll brain.
>
> Tysons mall is a thing. Tysons is another thing
> that encompasses Tysons mall. Tysons is 2000
> acres, the mall is about 80 acres. You hate the
> mall? Cool we have something in common. I hardly
> ever go there, especially not when every god damn
> person in the region is there shopping. What are
> your thoughts about the 200 jobs that Monster
> employs in Tysons? Or the 500 by deloitte? or 100
> by Redhat, 1200 by Booz?
>
> For an election season where everyone says jobs
> are the most important thing, you people sure
> don't seem to care how they get created or where
> they are located. Jobs are infinitely more
> important than how people feel about going to a
> movie theater. Who the hell goes to movie theaters
> any more anyways? Your the dumbass shelling out 12
> bucks to see the same movie you can watch at home
> and then complaining about it.
>
> Again, mall = 1% of Tysons. What are your thoughts
> on being employed at Greensboro Drive? What are
> your thoughts on your tax rate not having to
> increase as much as Loudoun's did after the
> housing collapse? Do you actually have any valid
> points to make other than your teenage complaints
> about the level of quality of a mall (that is the
> most successful in the mid-atlantic btw).

The Mall was one of the first buildings at Tyson's Corner before the other parasites arrived. Then the car dealerships. Now the scavenger corporations
Your snide remarks about the mall are not appreciated. Most corporations that moved to Tyson;s Corner require other businesses to feed off. They do not develop or build anything that stands on its own merits and require Washington to exist. This is why they are considered corner businesses.
Although the area was once considered upland, it now incorporates the bottom feeders of American business

@Creskin - why bother asking? You already know Angry's view of the world is seen only thru klan-kolored glasses LoLz

@Just shoot - +1

In earlier history downtown was where the sewage ended up. I'm a plumber and basic plumbing rule #1= "shit flows downhill and you get paid on Friday". I'll stay uptown.

That's the fact, Jack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The Mall was one of the first buildings at Tyson's
> Corner before the other parasites arrived. Then
> the car dealerships. Now the scavenger
> corporations

The Westpark Hotel, SAIC and NADA were also some of the earliest buildings/tenants in Tyson's.



> Your snide remarks about the mall are not
> appreciated. Most corporations that moved to
> Tyson;s Corner require other businesses to feed
> off. They do not develop or build anything that
> stands on its own merits and require Washington to
> exist. This is why they are considered corner
> businesses.

There is a small amount of clustering around the data centers and long-haul IP transmission exchanges, but that is the only real other "industry" in this area. There is nothing in Tyson's that would cause businesses to cluster, other than office space.

You have to understand Tysons Engineer's motives. He is vested in this idea that Tyson's Corner is a business center in its own right. So he will find a way to justify it. In reality, he isn't competing against Charlotte, Austin and Boston, but Reston, Skyline, Crystal City, the Dulles Corridor, et al.


> Although the area was once considered upland, it
> now incorporates the bottom feeders of American
> business

There's a reason Booz moved from Skyline and built their headquarters right next to their "competitor", SAIC. It's because they are in collusion. If you bid on a contract, or win a contract with certain agencies, whether you wanted it or not, you'll have a Booz Allen and an SAIC consultant automatically attached to your contract, and they might even get more out of that contract than you, as a prime, do.

@Deloitte Douche - oh come ON! Tysons is so obviously on par with places like Boston! In fact, hundreds of thousands travel every year from around the globe to see the world-renowned Toilet Bowl =)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2012 08:06AM by Gordon Blvd.
Attachments:

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Deloitte Douche - oh come ON! Tyson's is so
> obviously on par with places like Boston! In
> fact, hundreds of thousands travel every year from
> around the globe to see the world-renowned Toilet
> Bowl =)

Architects gone wild.

When Great Falls,
so falls Great Falls.

Fairfax County is the outhouse of Washington, DC.
Tyson's Corner is just being renovated by digging a new hole and adding new a toilet paper dispenser.
The Nouveau riche will buy into anything.

Seems like the trolls dont just exist in Fairfax, they love coming here from outside fairfax and making unproven statements

Sweet use of Nouveau riche, beyond french philosophy do you have any fucking idea what you are talking about? Got a degree in anything useful? Oh I forgot you are likely from DC or elsewhere so no you have no discernible talents what so ever.

Anyone who is actually interested in what is being built in Tysons and planned over the next 5 years.

http://thetysonscorner.com/current-rezonings-in-tysons-corner/

The rezonings there represent only the projects that have come in so far in the first year that rezonings were opened. A majority of what is proposed in those plans will occur within the next 5 years with exception of parts of Capital One project and Spring Hill Station.

Just an observation but this development does seem to be in line of the UN Agenda 21

"What is Agenda 21? If you do not know about it, you should.

Agenda 21 is a two-decade old, grand plan for global ’Sustainable Development,’ brought to you from the United Nations. George H.W. Bush (and 177 other world leaders) agreed to it back in 1992, and in 1995, Bill Clinton signed Executive Order #12858, creating a Presidential Council on ‘Sustainable Development.’ This effectively pushed the UN plan into America’s large, churning government machine without the need for any review or discussion by Congress or the American people.

‘Sustainable Development’ sounds like a nice idea, right? It sounds nice, until you scratch the surface and find that Agenda 21 and Sustainable Development are really cloaked plans to impose the tenets of Social Justice/Socialism on the world.

At risk from Agenda 21;
•Private Property ownership
•Single-Family homes
•Private car ownership and individual travel choices
•Privately owned farms

The Agenda 21 plan openly targets private property. For over thirty-five years the UN has made their stance very clear on the issue of individuals owning land;


Land… cannot be treated as an ordinary asset, controlled by individuals and subject to the pressures and inefficiencies of the market. Private land ownership is also a principal instrument of accumulation and concentration of wealth and therefore contributes to social injustice; if unchecked, it may become a major obstacle in the planning and implementation of development schemes. The provision of decent dwellings and healthy conditions for the people can only be achieved if land is used in the interest of society as a whole"


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-the-soros-sponsored-agenda-21-a-hidden-plan-for-world-government-yes-only-it-is-not-hidden/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2012 11:15AM by Hay Zeus.

Look a-hole, Agenda 21 is bunk ridiculous bullshit. The people are what matters and the people in this area keep saying that housing is too expensive, they live too far from things, they want to be able to walk around their neighborhoods and depend on the car less.

This is something people are asking for, not some prime directive from Angela Murkel or Kofe Annan

^^^^ Me thinks you must work the UN

Trolls from outside fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seems like the trolls dont just exist in Fairfax,
> they love coming here from outside fairfax and
> making unproven statements
>
> Sweet use of Nouveau riche, beyond french
> philosophy do you have any fucking idea what you
> are talking about? Got a degree in anything
> useful? Oh I forgot you are likely from DC or
> elsewhere so no you have no discernible talents
> what so ever.


Got me high school certificate from tommy jefferson and then i attended john mason college for fairfax intellectuals so don't fuck with this smart troll you dumbass troll.

Just your average dumb hick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trolls from outside fairfax Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Seems like the trolls dont just exist in
> Fairfax,
> > they love coming here from outside fairfax and
> > making unproven statements
> >
> > Sweet use of Nouveau riche, beyond french
> > philosophy do you have any fucking idea what
> you
> > are talking about? Got a degree in anything
> > useful? Oh I forgot you are likely from DC or
> > elsewhere so no you have no discernible talents
> > what so ever.
>
>
> Got me high school certificate from tommy
> jefferson and then i attended john mason college
> for fairfax intellectuals so don't fuck with this
> smart troll you dumbass troll.

I believe John Mason was the black sheep in the family.
What came first? The chicken, egg or corner.
This thread has played out.

Fore the corner- 20%
Against said corner- 55%
who doesn't give a fuck- 75%
150% bullshit cause this is FFU

Worked in Tyson's for past 6yrs. Traffic progressively gets worse every 6 months & is going to be worse than ever soon. Zero nightlife unless you like chilling with Ms. Plastic Face & Dr. Prick at Tyson's 2, have to go to Arlington or DC to do anything. Way too many office buildings... condo's poorly placed between govt buildings and highway signs & at inflated prices to boot if you wanna buy or rent.

I'd move b4 I would have to live here, my 2 cents.