WashingToneLocian Wrote:
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> So what you Republicans are saying is that George
> W. Bush is a Socialist. After all, Bush has been
> "spreading the wealth around" with the same
> progressive tax plan Obama is proposing (or
> haven't you ever noticed the brackets in the tax
> schedule you use when preparing your taxes?). That
> means Obama is a socialist, George W. Bush is a
> socialist. Hell, Ronald Reagan was a socialist.
Progressive taxation does not equal socialism. You guys keep trying to make this argument, and it is still a failure.
Socialism (from Wiki so Vince will trust it):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Quote
Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society. Modern socialism originated in the late nineteenth-century working class political movement. Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution which represents the transitional stage between capitalism and communism.
Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.
Socialism is not a discrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and program; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalization, sometimes opposing each other. Another dividing feature of the socialist movement is the split on how a socialist economy should be established between the reformists and the revolutionaries. Some socialists advocate complete nationalization of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; while others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy. Social democrats propose selective nationalization of key national industries in mixed economies combined with tax-funded welfare programs; Libertarian socialism (which includes Socialist Anarchism and Libertarian Marxism) rejects state control and ownership of the economy altogether and advocates direct collective ownership of the means of production via co-operative workers' councils and workplace democracy.
In the 1970s and the 1980s, Yugoslavian, Hungarian, Polish and Chinese Communists instituted various forms of market socialism combining co-operative and State ownership models with the free market exchange. This is unlike the earlier theoretical market socialist proposal put forth by Oskar Lange in that it allows market forces, rather than central planners to guide production and exchange.[6] Anarcho-syndicalists, Luxemburgists (such as those in the Socialist Party USA) and some elements of the United States New Left favor decentralized collective ownership in the form of cooperatives or workers' councils.
Taxing to pay for government programs (of which there are too many, and too costly already) is not Socialism unless sit is geared toward taking wealth from some people and using that wealth to directly provide benefits to people that make less. Since the Democrats were primarily responsible for setting up most of today's social programs the Government runs, there is always going to be some form of "socialism" in place. Most times the republicans work to remove these programs - as seen under Bill Clinton when the republicans managed to get through a welfare reform bill that he signed. Obama is now proposing to raise taxes directly on those making above a certain income to pay credits to those making less - that is clearly socialism. Period. Under Bush, Congress passed tax CUTS for everyone, while ALSO increasing social (medicare senior program) and military spending. So if you want to call increasing support for Senior Citizens (not a welfare class) socialism, you have a bit of a stretch to make.
Under the current economic crisis, the administration has made it clear that their investment in banks and other institutions is temporary to enable the credit markets to begin working again. Again, you could argue some form of socialism, but since the plan is to get out once these companies are on their feet again, it seems like a far stretch to make still, unless you are trying to use that as a premise to mask the intent of the Democrats under Obama. Pelosi has made it clear she favors these kinds of programs, and Barney Frank has already indicated he has plans to raise taxes even more once Obama is in office.