ice floe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> formerhick76 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Are Hughes/South Lakes similar to Wakefield HS
> --
> > White kids who brave it, and Blacks/Hispanics
> who
> > are interested in education, get stellar
> > educations; Blacks/Hispanics who have no
> interest
> > in education seem to be put out on an
> educational
> > ice floe.
>
>
> anyone who has no interest in education puts
> themselves on an ice floe
>
> can't be bothered to take advantage of the
> educational opportunity or here illegally?
>
> why should we waste our tax dollars? why should
> either category be clogging up our schools and
> wasting our resources?


I agreed with you in some respects....Wakefield is a terrific school for kids that want a good education. Teachers are very involved with the students that want to succeed, regardless of their skin color. I should know...my niece is what is considered a "hispanic minority" and learned to "swim" at Wakefield early on. She just graduated with honors and is heading to Virginia Tech with an engineering major. It proves it can be done even in a school which reputation is similar to Hughes...at least they offer AP courses, which she took advantaged of. South Lakes is a different story....it has great teachers and a good principal (as far as I am concerned), but lacks vision....Hopefully SL learns from its mistakes and at least offers a better selection of courses for the majority of its students, not just the "few" that choose IB. Lip service doesn't cut it.

If you haven't figured it out there are a bunch of High School kids posting in this thread.

are things really better at SLHS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as participation rates for 12th graders at
> SLHS-an indication of whether the student is going
> the college route-I found some interesting data:
>
> In 2006-07 40 Black students took the SAT with
> about 28% scoring above the national average.
>
> In 2005-06 38 Black students took the SAT with
> about 18% scoring above the national average.
>
> In 2004-05 42 Black students took the SAT with
> about 24% scoring above the national average.
>
> It does not look like the principal, staff, or PTA
> at SLHS is focused on more Black students taking
> the SAT and/or providing them with SAT prep to
> help them improve their performance.


Why are they in denial??

What about Latinos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's take a look at how Latinos fare at SLHS:
>
> In 2006-07 18 Latinos took the SAT with about 35%
> scoring above the national average.
>
> In 2005-06 21 Latinos took the SAT with about 33%
> scroing above the national average.
>
> In 2004-05 12 Latinos took the SAT with about 17%
> scoring above the natonal average.
>
> In 2006-07 19 11th and 12th grade Latinos
> participated in IB with just 7 taking the exams.
>
> In 2005-06 18 11th and 12th grade Latinos
> participated in IB with just 8 taking the exams.
>
> Why isn't this school doing more to improve the
> participation rate of Latinos on SAT and IB?
>
> I thought this school was "on the right track"?



The Emperor has no clothes........

IB School Data Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since South Lakes is under a microscope and claims
> they are doing a fabulous job, let's look at some
> data among the 8 IB schools:
>
> IB Participation Rates For Latinos:
>
> 1. Robinson/ 54%
> 2. Marshall/ 48%
> 3. Edison/ 27%
> 3. Lee/ 27%
> 4. Mt Vernon/ 26%
> 5. Annandale/ 23%
> 5. Stuart/ 23%
> 6. South Lakes/21%
>
> IB Participation Rates For Blacks:
>
> 1. Lee/33%
> 1. Edison/33%
> 2. Robinson/31%
> 3. Marshall/ 30%
> 4. Stuart/27%
> 5. Mt Vernon/26%
> 6. Annandale/19%
> 7. South Lakes/ 19%
>
> SAT Take Rates For Blacks:
>
> 1. Robinson/79%
> 2. Lee/78%
> 3. Annandale/74%
> 4. Edison/ 57%
> 5. Marshall/56%
> 5. South Lakes/56%
> 6. Stuart/51%
> 7. Mt Vernon/43%
>
> SAT Take Rates for Latinos:
>
> 1. Robinson/78%
> 2. Marshall/58%
> 3. Annandale/43%
> 4. South Lakes/39%
> 5. Lee/36%
> 6. Stuart/34%
> 6. Edison/34%
> 7. Mt. Vernon/27%
>
> South Lakes is DEAD LAST in 2 of the 4 catagories
> and in the bottom half in the other two.
>
> Where is the focus at this school. If I am a
> Black or Latino parent I should be VERY AFRAID.
> 4.


This cannot be. South Lakes High School is a diverse school where All of our students thrive.

Oh, and Bruce Butler is a wonderful principal.

General Misinformation Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> General Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The yellow dog democrat is right. Butler and
> IB
> > parents care only about IB kids at SL. The
> parents
> > of IB diploma kids run SL and only care about
> the
> > IB program. "Regular" kids who can't handle IB
> > classes can take general education classes at
> SL.
> > However, there aren't enough "IB" students
> without
> > the "high average" kids to fill up the IB/preIB
> > classes. General education classes are ignored
> at
> > SL. Good students who are not IB material are
> > thrown in to honors and IB classes. IB parents
> > don't care one bit as long as their kids are in
> > advanced classes. No effort is made to give
> > general ed kids a decent education.
>
> All through these posts ignoramuses are claiming
> that IB courses are only for "elite" students. And
> out of the other sides of their mouths they say IB
> courses are not up to snuff with AP. They simply
> can't make up their minds -- because they simply
> don't know any of the curricula.
>

Ignorance is bliss is your battle cry.
> Are YOU saying that IB is too rigorous for general
> ed kids? Are you saying that IB skims the best
> kids off the top and leaves gen ed with remedial
> students? And that this doesn't happen at AP
> schools? Are you saying your "ordinary" kid will
> suffer in the slums of gen ed or be lost in the
> wilderness of advanced classes, no inbetween? Are
> you saying that gen ed classes are ignored, and
> only at SLHS? What's your proof for any or all of
> this???
>

Look at the above data dimwit. Your school IGNORES half of their minority population.


> You sound very fearful of things you don't know.
> And have very little faith in your own child.
>
> If you are arguing against IB, here is the logical
> conclusion: Get your kids into an AP school where
> they can hack those watered-down AP courses and
> stay out of the supposedly drug-ridden,
> underachieving remedial gen ed programs that FCPS
> spawns and propagates. And if you are dumb enough
> to believe most of the diatribe against IB and
> South Lakes in this thread, you will "know" that
> gen ed is a horrible hell at ANY school -- Oakton,
> Westfield, Madison, you name it.
>
IB is not the problem. Your school is the problem. the Blacks and Latinos are not on your "guest list".

> For most of the frustrated blatherers here, they'd
> send their kid to an elite private prep school in
> a split nanosecond if they could afford it.


Fix your school and then parents will want to go there.

Sounds like someone got under your skin, quantum. I'm sure Neen doesn't comprehend half of what you say either, but since you sound smart, she wants to be on your bandwagon. As a child of the South, I can tell you that Faulkner is way overrated. I guess to your simple and uncomplicated mid-western sensibilities he seems exotic, but he was just another drunk Southern writer who used way too many words to say very little...mmmm...now I get it.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen - your response intuits that you know that
> "long and boring posts" statements equate to "I
> cannot come up with anything persuasive in
> response".
>
> Reminds me of a high school English class where
> half students complained about a stunning
> masterpiece i.e., Faulkner's Light in August, as
> boring. Of course it is boring to a crowd that
> finds US magazine intellectually scintillating.
>
>
> This, of course, is the fun with message boards.
> One can receive responses from folks outside of
> the normal course of discourse.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Puhleese - you can answer your own question about
> the concern over the lesser percentage of students
> at South Lakes taking the SAT's. There is a
> perception - and I mean just that - a perception -
> that the students who do not take the SAT's are
> more likely to be disruptive, act out, and be
> intimidating and sometimes violent. And likewise
> they are perceived to require resources that fall
> more within the category of maintenance and
> advanced child care rather than education. For
> parents striving to instill a sense of excellence,
> these perceptions are at their least a
> distraction. It is my view that these
> perceptions at South Lakes are overblown, -- good
> students with a sense of purpose and parental
> guidance will indeed be challenged and may find
> the smaller competitive landscape to their
> ultimate liking, but the perceptions have some
> basis in fact. The best way to put those
> perceptions in the most balanced light is to have
> candor about the situation, which invariably means
> to some degree acknowledging the problems, while
> at the same time explaining what is done to keep
> them in check. That approach appears a little too
> much to expect for the school system, which
> appears overwhelmingly concerned with appearances
> and not hurting feelings. But given your
> responses, I am confident you are aware of what I
> have described.


I get a headache reading this jibberish.

I vote Quantum off the island.

> > Since South Lakes is under a microscope and
> claims
> > they are doing a fabulous job, let's look at
> some
> > data among the 8 IB schools:
> >
> > IB Participation Rates For Latinos:
> >
> > 1. Robinson/ 54%
> > 2. Marshall/ 48%
> > 3. Edison/ 27%
> > 3. Lee/ 27%
> > 4. Mt Vernon/ 26%
> > 5. Annandale/ 23%
> > 5. Stuart/ 23%
> > 6. South Lakes/21%
> >
> > IB Participation Rates For Blacks:
> >
> > 1. Lee/33%
> > 1. Edison/33%
> > 2. Robinson/31%
> > 3. Marshall/ 30%
> > 4. Stuart/27%
> > 5. Mt Vernon/26%
> > 6. Annandale/19%
> > 7. South Lakes/ 19%
> >
> > SAT Take Rates For Blacks:
> >
> > 1. Robinson/79%
> > 2. Lee/78%
> > 3. Annandale/74%
> > 4. Edison/ 57%
> > 5. Marshall/56%
> > 5. South Lakes/56%
> > 6. Stuart/51%
> > 7. Mt Vernon/43%
> >
> > SAT Take Rates for Latinos:
> >
> > 1. Robinson/78%
> > 2. Marshall/58%
> > 3. Annandale/43%
> > 4. South Lakes/39%
> > 5. Lee/36%
> > 6. Stuart/34%
> > 6. Edison/34%
> > 7. Mt. Vernon/27%
> >
> > South Lakes is DEAD LAST in 2 of the 4
> catagories
> > and in the bottom half in the other two.
> >
> > Where is the focus at this school. If I am a
> > Black or Latino parent I should be VERY AFRAID.
> > 4.

Shut the Fuck Up, If people find out that South Lakes is mostly white students then there will be no more additional funding for programs. These figures are all wrong, SLHS is all black and hispanic, with Jewish and Muslin kids damn it!

quantum is one of the few people here with anything to contribute - and yes that probably disqualifies him

So I see Robinson at the top of those lists..

In laymans terms, what can i deduct from that?

if I somehow have a minority child, I should send him or her to Robinson?

thanks in advance.

Quantum reminds me of Alan Greenspan on a congressional hearing, long long sentences with a lot of could, would, ifs, and after hearing him talk for two hours, you still don't know whether he is going to raise the rate or not.

simplicity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum reminds me of Alan Greenspan on a
> congressional hearing, long long sentences with a
> lot of could, would, ifs, and after hearing him
> talk for two hours, you still don't know whether
> he is going to raise the rate or not.


LOL.

Quantum reminds me of those Charlie Brown specials with his teacher going "Wah, Wah, Wah, Wah..."

Just background noise.

Someone hinted that Quantum is male. They write to "flowery" for the male-I am guessing gay or female.

Expensive Jeans Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I see Robinson at the top of those lists..
>
> In laymans terms, what can i deduct from that?
>
> if I somehow have a minority child, I should send
> him or her to Robinson?
>
> thanks in advance.


The Robinson staff really seem to be making great strides in inclusiveness for minorities in advanced studies/college prep.

Whatever they are doing should be replicated county wide. You see, FCPS does not really have a game plan for this BIG problem.

OMG-I just said something complimentary about FCPS. I think that is a first on this 350 page board!

Quantum, are you a Fairfax County School Board staff member who used to take notes and publish same for the school board hearings.

The older minutes included one thought after another only separated by commas.

Are you sure you are not school board staff?


-------------------------------------------------------
> quantum Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hmm...I am impressed by South Lakes most recent
> > test scores? Actually very impressed,
> > particularly with the SAT results. Why? They
> > have a far larger percentage of a group of
> > students who across the country simply perform
> > poorly relative to other groups on tests like
> the
> > SAT. And there's no reason to doubt that the
> > achievement gap is any different (on a relative
> > basis) at South Lakes. So what does that mean
> for
> > the test scores? That means if adjusted for
> > certain populations, the remainder may (and I
> > emphasize may) be doing better (or at least as
> > well) as similar populations at Oakton, Madison
> > and the like. Again, while some may see a
> slight
> > lag at South Lakes in terms of SAT scores (and
> > also SOL's), when viewed through the lens of
> the
> > soon to be affected transferring population, it
> > looks like their existing peer groups at South
> > Lakes are doing at least as well. Query
> whether
> > political correctness keeps the schools from
> > extrapolating and spreading this message - it
> > probably does - but it would be a boon to those
> > anxious about the school.
> >
> > The market for school information is efficient
> > (witness the sixty some pages of postings here).
>
> > This doesn't mean (obviously) that every piece
> of
> > information is accurate or helpful, but in the
> > aggregate there is a tremendous amount of
> > information out there on our local schools.
> (Like
> > the equity markets, the issue is more or less
> what
> > wise parents do with that information to obtain
> > the best education for their kids, but that is
> a
> > separate topic). This is why I have been a
> little
> > bit skeptical of South Lakes parents here -
> who,
> > without being critical, clearly have a lot of
> > self-interest in redistricting - and perhaps
> > protest too much - given that if there is
> positive
> > information or data out there - it will reach
> the
> > market. There's too much self interest for it
> not
> > too. But query whether someone has the chutzpah
> to
> > do just what I suggest - analyze the
> performance
> > of the non-troubled achievement gap groups from
> > the latest (and I mean the very latest) scores
> > relative to other schools. They do seem to
> > validate the sentiments of those that assert
> the
> > school is on an upward trend. And it may even
> > validate superior performance, even if wrapped
> in
> > a manner unacceptable to many diversiphiles.
> Any
> > takers on this hunch?
>
>
> God, doesn't Quantum use BIG words??
>
> We all need a dictionary.

Are Bruce and Gibson holding a joint celebration party at south lakes for the court decision? Too bad there was a washington post article showing mass exodus from south lakes.

Only if you're not coming. BTW, mass influx, not exodus.

sl celebration Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are Bruce and Gibson holding a joint celebration
> party at south lakes for the court decision? Too
> bad there was a washington post article showing
> mass exodus from south lakes.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> answer the question Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > You still haven't told us where in Herndon the
> public housing is?< <
>
> Get in your car and drive on Alabama west of Elden
> Street. You'll find it.


Are you referring to Dulles Park? (it has also been known as Elden Terrace) and now has a new name, behind the Bloom grocery store on Elden Street? Are you sure it is currently public housing?

A lifelong Dem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oakie Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The judge upholding the redistricting makes
> any
> > > recall of board members a mute point. Nobody
> is
> > > going to sign a recall petition now. There
> > would
> > > be no point, everybody in the Reston District
> > > loves him now.
> > >
> > > The best thing to do is to make some money
> off
> > the
> > > whole redistricting uproar by joining the
> > > FairfaxCAPS admin staff. Rumor has it they
> > raised
> > > close to $180,000. They claim $130,000 paid
> to
> > > the lawyer and they will not disclose a
> balance
> > > sheet of how the donations were spent.
> >
> > Everyone in Hunter Mill district has always
> loved
> > Stu Gibson. That's why he can do whatever he
> > wants. He's got the Big D after his name and
> > that's all it takes to get elected in Reston.
>
>
> I'm embarrassed to admit that I voted for Stu. As
> a lifetime yellow dog Democrat, I did it. I
> really didn't think he would support such a
> ridiculous and unfair RD plan. I also voted for
> Connolly. But, NEVER again. I will vote for a
> book banning, bible thumping Republican before I
> vote for those tyrants again. I think a key to
> getting rid of Stu is to reach out to the Hispanic
> community in Reston. Put up flyer and posters in
> Spanish: Stu Gibson supports the expensive and
> elite IB program at South Lakes--at the expense of
> the general education program. If the IB program
> doesn't benefit your children vote for HIS
> OPPONENT.



Oh sure, those Hispanics are lining up to vote.

<>


What a shallow and stupid thing to do, to take federal money away from your children.

<>
sorry I forgot to copy your message on my last post.

sick and tired Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A lifelong Dem Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Oakie Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > The judge upholding the redistricting makes
> > any
> > > > recall of board members a mute point.
> Nobody
> > is
> > > > going to sign a recall petition now. There
> > > would
> > > > be no point, everybody in the Reston
> District
> > > > loves him now.
> > > >
> > > > The best thing to do is to make some money
> > off
> > > the
> > > > whole redistricting uproar by joining the
> > > > FairfaxCAPS admin staff. Rumor has it they
> > > raised
> > > > close to $180,000. They claim $130,000
> paid
> > to
> > > > the lawyer and they will not disclose a
> > balance
> > > > sheet of how the donations were spent.
> > >
> > > Everyone in Hunter Mill district has always
> > loved
> > > Stu Gibson. That's why he can do whatever he
> > > wants. He's got the Big D after his name and
> > > that's all it takes to get elected in Reston.
> >
> >
> > I'm embarrassed to admit that I voted for Stu.
> As
> > a lifetime yellow dog Democrat, I did it. I
> > really didn't think he would support such a
> > ridiculous and unfair RD plan. I also voted
> for
> > Connolly. But, NEVER again. I will vote for a
> > book banning, bible thumping Republican before
> I
> > vote for those tyrants again. I think a key to
> > getting rid of Stu is to reach out to the
> Hispanic
> > community in Reston. Put up flyer and posters
> in
> > Spanish: Stu Gibson supports the expensive and
> > elite IB program at South Lakes--at the expense
> of
> > the general education program. If the IB
> program
> > doesn't benefit your children vote for HIS
> > OPPONENT.
>
>
> Sorry to hear about your mistake. I'm so tired of
> these bozos that I've decided not to vote for
> another school bond nor will I return any of those
> "are you a military family" forms again, even
> though I'm part of a military family. My
> "elected" school board member still has not
> responded to any of my emails, so I did not send
> back in the census report. The board appears not
> to listen to us when we speak at public hearings
> so why should I be included in this accounting???

Guess I will use the band width up to post the entire quote instead of trying to copy and paste.

It doesn't matter, the goal of one posters is to put down SLHS any way possible. Consider the source of someone who uses race, violence and social factors to win arguements. We all know SLHS doesn't have even half the problems this poster wants us to think about.

Nuff said

The only problem with SL is that it is a High School, but is solely focussed on diversity instead of acadamics. Lack of AP classes means it will lag behind academically. Until the AP issue is resolved, no point in going to SL. ALL Loudoun county high schools offer AP. In this age hard for me to imagine a high school that does not offer AP classes. SL should go back to the basics and focus on acadamic programs and stop worrying about race and class.

Laney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It doesn't matter, the goal of one posters is to
> put down SLHS any way possible. Consider the
> source of someone who uses race, violence and
> social factors to win arguements. We all know SLHS
> doesn't have even half the problems this poster
> wants us to think about.
>
> Nuff said

the chart must be upside down Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IB School Data Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Since South Lakes is under a microscope and
> claims
> > they are doing a fabulous job, let's look at
> some
> > data among the 8 IB schools:
> >
> > IB Participation Rates For Latinos:
> >
> > 1. Robinson/ 54%
> > 2. Marshall/ 48%
> > 3. Edison/ 27%
> > 3. Lee/ 27%
> > 4. Mt Vernon/ 26%
> > 5. Annandale/ 23%
> > 5. Stuart/ 23%
> > 6. South Lakes/21%
> >
> > IB Participation Rates For Blacks:
> >
> > 1. Lee/33%
> > 1. Edison/33%
> > 2. Robinson/31%
> > 3. Marshall/ 30%
> > 4. Stuart/27%
> > 5. Mt Vernon/26%
> > 6. Annandale/19%
> > 7. South Lakes/ 19%
> >
> > SAT Take Rates For Blacks:
> >
> > 1. Robinson/79%
> > 2. Lee/78%
> > 3. Annandale/74%
> > 4. Edison/ 57%
> > 5. Marshall/56%
> > 5. South Lakes/56%
> > 6. Stuart/51%
> > 7. Mt Vernon/43%
> >
> > SAT Take Rates for Latinos:
> >
> > 1. Robinson/78%
> > 2. Marshall/58%
> > 3. Annandale/43%
> > 4. South Lakes/39%
> > 5. Lee/36%
> > 6. Stuart/34%
> > 6. Edison/34%
> > 7. Mt. Vernon/27%
> >
> > South Lakes is DEAD LAST in 2 of the 4
> catagories
> > and in the bottom half in the other two.
> >
> > Where is the focus at this school. If I am a
> > Black or Latino parent I should be VERY AFRAID.
> > 4.
>
>
> This cannot be. South Lakes High School is a
> diverse school where All of our students thrive.
>
> Oh, and Bruce Butler is a wonderful principal.

Perhaps someone will come along and tell us what makes Mr. Butler such a wonderful Principal and what he's done over the last few years to improve scores at South Lakes.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen - your response intuits that you know that
> "long and boring posts" statements equate to "I
> cannot come up with anything persuasive in
> response".
>
> Reminds me of a high school English class where
> half students complained about a stunning
> masterpiece i.e., Faulkner's Light in August, as
> boring. Of course it is boring to a crowd that
> finds US magazine intellectually scintillating.
>
>
> This, of course, is the fun with message boards.
> One can receive responses from folks outside of
> the normal course of discourse.

You are so right.

"Light in August" is one of my favorite Faulkner books but I do not think FCPS high school students would get anything from its reading. They can wait until college and read "Absalom, Absalom", my most favorite book by the man who made Yoknapatawpha County famous.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2008 04:27AM by Neen.

Under Your Skin? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like someone got under your skin, quantum.
> I'm sure Neen doesn't comprehend half of what you
> say either, but since you sound smart, she wants
> to be on your bandwagon. As a child of the South,
> I can tell you that Faulkner is way overrated. I
> guess to your simple and uncomplicated mid-western
> sensibilities he seems exotic, but he was just
> another drunk Southern writer who used way too
> many words to say very little...mmmm...now I get
> it.
>
As another child of the south I can say that real Southerners love Faulkner. No one else can paint as accurate a picture of the south, and southern families, as Faulkner.

problem with SL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only problem with SL is that it is a High
> School, but is solely focussed on diversity
> instead of acadamics. Lack of AP classes means it
> will lag behind academically. Until the AP issue
> is resolved, no point in going to SL. ALL Loudoun
> county high schools offer AP. In this age hard for
> me to imagine a high school that does not offer AP
> classes. SL should go back to the basics and focus
> on acadamic programs and stop worrying about race
> and class.

I agree with you but there is NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING, as important in FCPS as RACE, RACE, RACE. It's all they think about and all they care about. Of course they don't focus on ALL races, only Blacks. They care about the gap between Blacks and Whites/Asians. The odd thing is, if they went to a basic education, focusing where you suggest, they could begin to help educate the Black students who they claim to care about and begin to close the gap.

>>>Are Bruce and Gibson holding a joint celebration?<<<

Yes, they are celebrating with a joint.

Do you think they will invite us and share? Educrats do love to 'share'.

Neen, I beg to differ, but it seems that you are the one obsessed with race. You bring it up in many of your posts, you refer to races of people, not individuals, and you paint entire groups (e.g., Asians) with a broad brush (e.g., 'Asians don't like IB', 'blacks don't achieve at the same level').

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> problem with SL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The only problem with SL is that it is a High
> > School, but is solely focussed on diversity
> > instead of acadamics. Lack of AP classes means
> it
> > will lag behind academically. Until the AP
> issue
> > is resolved, no point in going to SL. ALL
> Loudoun
> > county high schools offer AP. In this age hard
> for
> > me to imagine a high school that does not offer
> AP
> > classes. SL should go back to the basics and
> focus
> > on acadamic programs and stop worrying about
> race
> > and class.
>
> I agree with you but there is NOTHING, NOTHING,
> NOTHING, as important in FCPS as RACE, RACE, RACE.
> It's all they think about and all they care
> about. Of course they don't focus on ALL races,
> only Blacks. They care about the gap between
> Blacks and Whites/Asians. The odd thing is, if
> they went to a basic education, focusing where you
> suggest, they could begin to help educate the
> Black students who they claim to care about and
> begin to close the gap.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Are Bruce and Gibson holding a joint
> celebration?<<<
>
> Yes, they are celebrating with a joint.
>
> Do you think they will invite us and share?
> Educrats do love to 'share'.

Muffy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen, I beg to differ, but it seems that you are
> the one obsessed with race. You bring it up in
> many of your posts, you refer to races of people,
> not individuals, and you paint entire groups
> (e.g., Asians) with a broad brush (e.g., 'Asians
> don't like IB', 'blacks don't achieve at the same
> level').

Actually, FCPS is obsessed with ethnicity. On each school's profile website, under the Demographics tab is displayed a table which breaks down ethnicities such: Asian or Pacific Islander, Black (not of Hispanic origin), Hispanic, White (not of Hispanic origin), Other.

It appears that FCPS wants to make ethnicity a topic for discussion. It succeeded.

At least she is NOT politically correct, but she is right (sometimes). You have to be blind not to see the writing on the wall. Ask any teenager, and they will tell you the truth. SLPTA: focus on the academics and help the majority of the students......

Which reminds me:

BE....all that you can BE....is YOUR future in the IIIIIB!

or

The FEW, the PROUD, the IB crowd!!


Again....focus on the basics for the regular Joe at SL and you will find success!

---------------------------

Muffy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen, I beg to differ, but it seems that you are
> the one obsessed with race. You bring it up in
> many of your posts, you refer to races of people,
> not individuals, and you paint entire groups
> (e.g., Asians) with a broad brush (e.g., 'Asians
> don't like IB', 'blacks don't achieve at the same
> level').
>
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > problem with SL Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The only problem with SL is that it is a High
> > > School, but is solely focussed on diversity
> > > instead of acadamics. Lack of AP classes
> means
> > it
> > > will lag behind academically. Until the AP
> > issue
> > > is resolved, no point in going to SL. ALL
> > Loudoun
> > > county high schools offer AP. In this age
> hard
> > for
> > > me to imagine a high school that does not
> offer
> > AP
> > > classes. SL should go back to the basics and
> > focus
> > > on acadamic programs and stop worrying about
> > race
> > > and class.
> >
> > I agree with you but there is NOTHING, NOTHING,
> > NOTHING, as important in FCPS as RACE, RACE,
> RACE.
> > It's all they think about and all they care
> > about. Of course they don't focus on ALL races,
> > only Blacks. They care about the gap between
> > Blacks and Whites/Asians. The odd thing is, if
> > they went to a basic education, focusing where
> you
> > suggest, they could begin to help educate the
> > Black students who they claim to care about and
> > begin to close the gap.

I believe that NCLB 'dictates' that school districts such as FCPS break student populations down by ethnicity, so that performance for each subgroup can be determined. Not a bad thing, IMHO. Lack of performance by subgroups can no longer be ignored. Some school districts, such as Richmond, have long been exposed, since basically only one ethnic group attends their schools. Busing was court-mandated in Richmond around 1970, and white flight made sure that the school system was almost entirely black. It has taken the school district that long to achieve any kind of performance increase for its black students. NCLB has only recently brought to the forefront achievement problems long hidden in districts such as Fairfax. FCPS will not fix the problem overnight. It has taken Richmond 38 years, and they are still not 'fixed.' We can't expect FCPS to improve scores for similar students overnight, but we should expect them to improve.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Muffy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen, I beg to differ, but it seems that you
> are
> > the one obsessed with race. You bring it up in
> > many of your posts, you refer to races of
> people,
> > not individuals, and you paint entire groups
> > (e.g., Asians) with a broad brush (e.g.,
> 'Asians
> > don't like IB', 'blacks don't achieve at the
> same
> > level').
>
> Actually, FCPS is obsessed with ethnicity. On each
> school's profile website, under the Demographics
> tab is displayed a table which breaks down
> ethnicities such: Asian or Pacific Islander, Black
> (not of Hispanic origin), Hispanic, White (not of
> Hispanic origin), Other.
>
> It appears that FCPS wants to make ethnicity a
> topic for discussion. It succeeded.

Schrodinger's Cat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe that NCLB 'dictates' that school
> districts such as FCPS break student populations
> down by ethnicity, so that performance for each
> subgroup can be determined.

If it is an NCLB dictat, then I stand corrected. I may have ignorantly shot the messenger.

Sorry Cat, FCSB's answer to fixing the problem is to do a boundary study that brings in higher income English speaking neighborhoods. The objective is not to help the general education kids but to dilute the percentage of F & RM and ESOL numbers. That was a talking point that was used over and over by the SLHS students and SL supporters. Dilute the percentage. Dilute the percentages. So when potential buyers are looking to purchase a house in the Reston area, they check out the F & RM and ESOL percentage. There will be a significant drop in these percentages for SL. That is.....if the redistricted kids show up at SL and at Hughes.

This whole crummy process is about to be repeated with the Coppermine redistricting that is being developed even as we speak. Why not....they won the lawsuit....the school board members have nothing to fear. And as they said before...We make the decision about where your kids go to school. If you don't like the decision....move or sue us.





Schrodinger's Cat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe that NCLB 'dictates' that school
> districts such as FCPS break student populations
> down by ethnicity, so that performance for each
> subgroup can be determined. Not a bad thing,
> IMHO. Lack of performance by subgroups can no
> longer be ignored. Some school districts, such as
> Richmond, have long been exposed, since basically
> only one ethnic group attends their schools.
> Busing was court-mandated in Richmond around 1970,
> and white flight made sure that the school system
> was almost entirely black. It has taken the
> school district that long to achieve any kind of
> performance increase for its black students. NCLB
> has only recently brought to the forefront
> achievement problems long hidden in districts such
> as Fairfax. FCPS will not fix the problem
> overnight. It has taken Richmond 38 years, and
> they are still not 'fixed.' We can't expect FCPS
> to improve scores for similar students overnight,
> but we should expect them to improve.
>
> Berdhuis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Muffy Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Neen, I beg to differ, but it seems that you
> > are
> > > the one obsessed with race. You bring it up
> in
> > > many of your posts, you refer to races of
> > people,
> > > not individuals, and you paint entire groups
> > > (e.g., Asians) with a broad brush (e.g.,
> > 'Asians
> > > don't like IB', 'blacks don't achieve at the
> > same
> > > level').
> >
> > Actually, FCPS is obsessed with ethnicity. On
> each
> > school's profile website, under the
> Demographics
> > tab is displayed a table which breaks down
> > ethnicities such: Asian or Pacific Islander,
> Black
> > (not of Hispanic origin), Hispanic, White (not
> of
> > Hispanic origin), Other.
> >
> > It appears that FCPS wants to make ethnicity a
> > topic for discussion. It succeeded.

Ok, you smart than I folks out there.....

What if parents who elect to put their kids in private schools because their base school is failing and parents who have to put their kids in failing schools due to a variety of reasons........

filed a class action law suit because the FCSB is spending the tax dollars that should go to educate students, but instead is buying a multimillion dollar building to house administrators. Would you say the FCSB is top heavy with administrataive staff?

Schrodinger's Cat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe that NCLB 'dictates' that school
> districts such as FCPS break student populations
> down by ethnicity, so that performance for each
> subgroup can be determined. Not a bad thing,
> IMHO. Lack of performance by subgroups can no
> longer be ignored. Some school districts, such as
> Richmond, have long been exposed, since basically
> only one ethnic group attends their schools.
> Busing was court-mandated in Richmond around 1970,
> and white flight made sure that the school system
> was almost entirely black. It has taken the
> school district that long to achieve any kind of
> performance increase for its black students. NCLB
> has only recently brought to the forefront
> achievement problems long hidden in districts such
> as Fairfax. FCPS will not fix the problem
> overnight. It has taken Richmond 38 years, and
> they are still not 'fixed.' We can't expect FCPS
> to improve scores for similar students overnight,
> but we should expect them to improve.
>
>
> -----
>
I don't like cats so maybe that is why this poster rubs me the wrong way.

I grow weary of your blind lovefest for SLHS and FCPS in general.

What are you really trying to accomplish by ignoring all of the systemic failures of both institutions?

Of course, we don't expect FCPS to "fix" the problems of minority underachievement "overnight" but how many years do we give them?

10, 20??

Is that fair to our minority families to continue to do virtually nothing to help them?

You are disillusioned if you think FCPS has given a holy crap about minority dropouts, underperformance, etc.

NCLB, which FCPS continues to oppose, is what has put the spotlight on the ugly truth within FCPS. The trust that there are TWO seperate school systems within FCPS.

Read the MSAOC most recent report. Explain to us, since you are the hired FCPS cheerleader why in the last 4 years, minority application to TJ have dropped by nearly 30%

Explain to us why minority enrollment at TJ over the last 4 years has dropped nearly 40%.

Things are getting worse, NOT BETTER.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Actually, FCPS is obsessed with ethnicity. On each school's profile website, under the Demographics tab is displayed a table which breaks down ethnicities such: Asian or Pacific Islander, Black (not of Hispanic origin), Hispanic, White (not of Hispanic origin), Other.< <

In a state with a 350+ year history of virulent racial and ethnic discrimination, every school district in the Commonwealth has to track information this way, by Federal law which predates NCLB by 30+ years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2008 11:04AM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> In a state with a 350+ year history of virulent
> racial and ethnic discrimination, every school
> district in the Commonwealth has to track
> information this way, by Federal law which
> predates NCLB by 30+ years.

And thank you, too, for the correction.

The goal here is to make all FCPS schools better. We should stop bitching at each about a single school and start looking at ways to improve the FCPS schools at the bottom, they need to be improved. How?

Sorry, but you cat are clueless. There is not one thing in my post that defends FCPS. Go back and read it yourself. I believe I said it is a good thing that FCPS can no longer hide the numbers - get it.

One thing is to change the "not my fault" mentality, set up expectations/accountability of parties involved.

One thought regarding NCLB, and ESOL students. Many posters keep reporting how poorly SL is doing when looking at test scores, both SOL and SAT. There has been some dispute regarding when an ESOL child is given the SOL test for the first time, some posters saying they earn an exemption the first year, and others saying so long as they are enrolled by Oct. 1 of a given year they take it.

Keep in mind whether it is their first year in school in the states, second or let's say even third year, their ability to take an on grade level test at the high school level is limited. It has nothing to do with the quality of South Lakes in this case. It has to do with the expectation that a student, let's say entering the states and South Lakes as a Freshman will have to take the 11th grade English SOL in 2 years, and be expected to have certain passing scores to give South Lakes a decent rep.

How many of us, as adolescents, new to a country could be expected to take an on-level test based on our age versus our language ability and pass it?

I do think if they separated out students that have been in the program for years from those who are truly new, one might get a differing view on how well South Lakes' is teaching their language minority students. If it is shown that students are in ESOL from ES through HS than yes, clearly something is not working in FCPS, but if the separation shows the majority have only been learning English for a few years, and couldn't truly be expected to read at an academic English level of their age/grade equivalency than it means something entirely different. It means simply testing them in that manner is foolish.

Academic English and conversational English abilities are not the same thing. I am sure many of us via various language classes in high school or college could reasonably speak said language when visiting a country that uses that language, but very few of us could read lengthy on- grade level passages, write essays, or even perhaps read math word problems in that language (or science, history etc.) and expect to receive a passing grade.

Schrodinger's Cat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Some school districts, such as Richmond, have long been exposed, since basically only one ethnic group attends their schools. Busing was court-mandated in Richmond around 1970, and white flight made sure that the school system was almost entirely black.< <

Could we please get the history right?

After the Brown decision in 1954, Harry Byrd settled on a strategy of "massive resistance" in which most Va. public school systems were shut down, the buildings were then rented to white's only "Christian academies." Two generations of black kids had no education at all in many Va counties.

Fairfax, Arlington and Alexandria fought against Byrd's strategy. But Luther Jackson High, on Gallows Road, where the SB meeting are held, was built as an all black school in 1955 and stayed all black for many years. Prior to that Fairfax's black kids were bused into DC for high school.

Ultimately the public schools were re-opened, many by Court order, but mostly the black kids came back and the white kids stayed in their "Christian Academies" that relocated to other buildings. As a result, in many counties in Virginia today, the support for public school is shallow because the middle class and upper middle class families assume their kids are going to private school, particularly private high school.

It frequently happens that, when state aid to education is increased, these local governments reduce their property tax rate instead of spending the state aid to improve their schools.

There's really bad history here. We forget it at our peril.

Why, I wonder do some people choose to live in a state which they clearly can't stand, work at a firm with partners that they detest and send their kids to a school that they have been complaining about for years? I mean, what's up with that?

Mary Ellen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, you smart than I folks out there.....
>
> What if parents who elect to put their kids in
> private schools because their base school is
> failing and parents who have to put their kids in
> failing schools due to a variety of
> reasons........
>
> filed a class action law suit because the FCSB is
> spending the tax dollars that should go to educate
> students, but instead is buying a multimillion
> dollar building to house administrators. Would
> you say the FCSB is top heavy with administrataive
> staff?

I would be more cost effective to move down the street into a school district that is desirable than to send your kids to private school.

As far as this administrative fiasco commonly referred to as Gatehouse I and Gatehouse II- this should be on every parents radar. If you have not sent a nastry email protesting this wasteful use of school money than shame on you!!

Gatehouse I was supposed to "save" us $20 million based on the original projections from just 2 years ago. The latest update has that "savings" figure down to $10 million. Yes, cut in half in less than 2 years and this is over a 33 year life cycle.

ALL of this projected "savings" (YES, every penny of the $10 million) is attributed not to efficiencies or consolidation on the properties, but because Dale has promised to lay off 18 people in his top heavy office. Most of these layoffs are 100% unrelated to this consolidation. In other words, the positions could have been eliminated before Gatehouse I.

Part of the Gatehouse I aquisition includes a lot of land accross the street that they were going to build Gatehouse II. The land is empty and we are paying interest on it. Well, now, 3 years after the original plan, the halfwits at FCPS have concluded that the land is too small for their needs and that it is too expensive to build on it. Great planning, huh?

And now we have Gatehouse II coming.

more to come in a future post.

So now you are an expert on the history of Richmond education? What did the cat say that was incorrect?

Check out this link:

http://www.vahistorical.org/civilrights/busing.htm

-------------------------------------------------------
> Schrodinger's Cat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Some school districts, such as Richmond, have
> long been exposed, since basically only one ethnic
> group attends their schools. Busing was
> court-mandated in Richmond around 1970, and white
> flight made sure that the school system was almost
> entirely black.< <
>
> Could we please get the history right?
>
> After the Brown decision in 1954, Harry Byrd
> settled on a strategy of "massive resistance" in
> which most Va. public school systems were shut
> down, the buildings were then rented to white's
> only "Christian academies." Two generations of
> black kids had no education at all in many Va
> counties.
>
> Fairfax, Arlington and Alexandria fought against
> Byrd's strategy. But Luther Jackson High, on
> Gallows Road, where the SB meeting are held, was
> built as an all black school in 1955 and stayed
> all black for many years. Prior to that Fairfax's
> black kids were bused into DC for high school.
>
> Ultimately the public schools were re-opened, many
> by Court order, but mostly the black kids came
> back and the white kids stayed in their "Christian
> Academies" that relocated to other buildings. As
> a result, in many counties in Virginia today, the
> support for public school is shallow because the
> middle class and upper middle class families
> assume their kids are going to private school,
> particularly private high school.
>
> It frequently happens that, when state aid to
> education is increased, these local governments
> reduce their property tax rate instead of spending
> the state aid to improve their schools.
>
> There's really bad history here. We forget it at
> our peril.

gack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why, I wonder do some people choose to live in a
> state which they clearly can't stand, work at a
> firm with partners that they detest and send their
> kids to a school that they have been complaining
> about for years? I mean, what's up with that?


Damn those Jews that stood up to the Nazis-why didn't they just accept things the way they were?

How dare you tell me to go somewhere else beacuse I don't like the way they run things around here. You go somewhere else.

We have every right to demand change in our neighborhoods, schools, etc. Only cowards walk away. Read up on the civil rights movement sweetie.

Pissing Match Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > So now you are an expert on the history of Richmond education? What did the cat say that was incorrect?< <

What she got wrong, troll, was event which initiated the "white flight" from public schools.

It was the massive resistance strategy that started it which happened 15-20 years before Mehirge's decision on cross jurisdictional busing order was overturned.

So segregation of black education in Richmond's school pre-dates the busing decision.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2008 12:28PM by Thomas More.

Well, as one who attended school in Richmond prior to busing, and after briefly attended a de-segregated school in Richmond as one of its only non-black students, I can tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about, and that the cat was absolutely correct, there was massive white flight from the annexed schools immediately after busing was imposed and in the years shortly thereafter. But, if you want to continue to believe that you know it all, go right ahead. It won't make you correct, though, but that's ok. TTFN

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pissing Match Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > So now you are an expert on the history of
> Richmond education? What did the cat say that was
> incorrect?< <
>
> What she got wrong, troll, was event which
> initiated the "white flight" from public schools.
>
> It was the massive resistance strategy that
> started it which happened 15-20 years before
> Mehirge's decision on cross jurisdictional busing
> order was overturned.
>
> So segregation of black education in Richmond's
> school pre-dates the busing decision.

I was speaking of complainers who do nothing but, and who are utter failures at actually effecting change. But, as neen would say, 'if the shoe fits, dearie.'

you are kidding right? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gack Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why, I wonder do some people choose to live in
> a
> > state which they clearly can't stand, work at a
> > firm with partners that they detest and send
> their
> > kids to a school that they have been
> complaining
> > about for years? I mean, what's up with that?
>
>
> Damn those Jews that stood up to the Nazis-why
> didn't they just accept things the way they were?
>
> How dare you tell me to go somewhere else beacuse
> I don't like the way they run things around here.
> You go somewhere else.
>
> We have every right to demand change in our
> neighborhoods, schools, etc. Only cowards walk
> away. Read up on the civil rights movement
> sweetie.

curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One thought regarding NCLB, and ESOL students.
> Many posters keep reporting how poorly SL is doing
> when looking at test scores, both SOL and SAT.
> There has been some dispute regarding when an ESOL
> child is given the SOL test for the first time,
> some posters saying they earn an exemption the
> first year, and others saying so long as they are
> enrolled by Oct. 1 of a given year they take it.
>
> Keep in mind whether it is their first year in
> school in the states, second or let's say even
> third year, their ability to take an on grade
> level test at the high school level is limited.
> It has nothing to do with the quality of South
> Lakes in this case. It has to do with the
> expectation that a student, let's say entering the
> states and South Lakes as a Freshman will have to
> take the 11th grade English SOL in 2 years, and be
> expected to have certain passing scores to give
> South Lakes a decent rep.
>
> How many of us, as adolescents, new to a country
> could be expected to take an on-level test based
> on our age versus our language ability and pass
> it?
>
> I do think if they separated out students that
> have been in the program for years from those who
> are truly new, one might get a differing view on
> how well South Lakes' is teaching their language
> minority students. If it is shown that students
> are in ESOL from ES through HS than yes, clearly
> something is not working in FCPS, but if the
> separation shows the majority have only been
> learning English for a few years, and couldn't
> truly be expected to read at an academic English
> level of their age/grade equivalency than it means
> something entirely different. It means simply
> testing them in that manner is foolish.
>
> Academic English and conversational English
> abilities are not the same thing. I am sure many
> of us via various language classes in high school
> or college could reasonably speak said language
> when visiting a country that uses that language,
> but very few of us could read lengthy on- grade
> level passages, write essays, or even perhaps read
> math word problems in that language (or science,
> history etc.) and expect to receive a passing
> grade.


Sorry, for the dated data, but according to the SLHS Improvement report, in 2005 there were a total of 240 students out of 1486 labeled as ESL.

Of that 240, 92 were considered level B3-achieving english proficiency. 61 were advanced and the balance-87 students were levels LA thru B2.

This misconception that our schools are overrun by kids who don't speak or understand English is way overblown.

I think FCPS likes for us to think that so they can look for a scapegoat.

Pissing Match Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Well, as one who attended school in Richmond prior to busing, and after briefly attended a de-segregated school in Richmond as one of its only non-black students, I can tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about, and that the cat was absolutely correct, there was massive white flight from the annexed schools immediately after busing was imposed and in the years shortly thereafter. But, if you want to continue to believe that you know it all, go right ahead. It won't make you correct, though, but that's ok. TTFN< <

It might be your hasty parting that caused this message to be almost indecipherable.

What grades were you in when this happened?

What was the racial composition of your class before you became "one of its only non-black students" by briefly attending a de-segregated school in Richmond?

You were part of the "white flight" then?

What is meant by an "annexed schools" in Richmond? Did you mean a school in the portiion of Henrico that was annexed into the City?

If so, was that one of the all white neighborhoods where the restrictive covenants not only prohibited the sale of houses to blacks but to Catholics and Jews also?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2008 03:05PM by Thomas More.

gack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was speaking of complainers who do nothing but,
> and who are utter failures at actually effecting
> change. But, as neen would say, 'if the shoe
> fits, dearie.'
>
> you are kidding right? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > gack Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Why, I wonder do some people choose to live
> in
> > a
> > > state which they clearly can't stand, work at
> a
> > > firm with partners that they detest and send
> > their
> > > kids to a school that they have been
> > complaining
> > > about for years? I mean, what's up with
> that?
> >
> >
> > Damn those Jews that stood up to the Nazis-why
> > didn't they just accept things the way they
> were?
> >
> > How dare you tell me to go somewhere else
> beacuse
> > I don't like the way they run things around
> here.
> > You go somewhere else.
> >
> > We have every right to demand change in our
> > neighborhoods, schools, etc. Only cowards walk
> > away. Read up on the civil rights movement
> > sweetie.



I will be more than honored to wear your "complainer pin".

I notified Jay Matthews and Marc Fisher at the Washington Post this year about that BS "morality report". It resulted in 2 quite negative articles in The Post and a scathing editorial in the Sunday paper. The story was covered internationally and caused such bad publicity for the folks at FCPS that the report is DOA.

Is that what you mean by complaining?

I will compare my community activism with yours any day, sister. At the end of the day my complaining and public lashing-if need be- of this school district will trump any petty and insignificant contribution you have ever made to this school district.

You, my dear, are a follower, not a leader. Your complacency with this school district has harmed children-not helped. Make no mistake about that fact.

let's talk numbers Wrote:
>
> Sorry, for the dated data, but according to the
> SLHS Improvement report, in 2005 there were a
> total of 240 students out of 1486 labeled as ESL.
>
> Of that 240, 92 were considered level B3-achieving
> english proficiency. 61 were advanced and the
> balance-87 students were levels LA thru B2.
>
> This misconception that our schools are overrun by
> kids who don't speak or understand English is way
> overblown.
>
> I think FCPS likes for us to think that so they
> can look for a scapegoat.

Thanks for the data. Now the question becomes how do those numbers factor into AYP? The "advanced" students should mean they have been here 3 years or perhaps 4, and the less advanced 1 year -3 years. So, how are their test results factored into South Lakes making AYP. If a few fail does South Lakes pass, or does the majority (at each level) have to pass for AYP to be met?

If you did those things then you fall into the non-complainer category. Griping on this site will get you nowhere, though.

complainers unite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gack Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I was speaking of complainers who do nothing
> but,
> > and who are utter failures at actually
> effecting
> > change. But, as neen would say, 'if the shoe
> > fits, dearie.'
> >
> > you are kidding right? Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > gack Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Why, I wonder do some people choose to live
> > in
> > > a
> > > > state which they clearly can't stand, work
> at
> > a
> > > > firm with partners that they detest and
> send
> > > their
> > > > kids to a school that they have been
> > > complaining
> > > > about for years? I mean, what's up with
> > that?
> > >
> > >
> > > Damn those Jews that stood up to the
> Nazis-why
> > > didn't they just accept things the way they
> > were?
> > >
> > > How dare you tell me to go somewhere else
> > beacuse
> > > I don't like the way they run things around
> > here.
> > > You go somewhere else.
> > >
> > > We have every right to demand change in our
> > > neighborhoods, schools, etc. Only cowards
> walk
> > > away. Read up on the civil rights movement
> > > sweetie.
>
>
>
> I will be more than honored to wear your
> "complainer pin".
>
> I notified Jay Matthews and Marc Fisher at the
> Washington Post this year about that BS "morality
> report". It resulted in 2 quite negative articles
> in The Post and a scathing editorial in the Sunday
> paper. The story was covered internationally and
> caused such bad publicity for the folks at FCPS
> that the report is DOA.
>
> Is that what you mean by complaining?
>
> I will compare my community activism with yours
> any day, sister. At the end of the day my
> complaining and public lashing-if need be- of this
> school district will trump any petty and
> insignificant contribution you have ever made to
> this school district.
>
> You, my dear, are a follower, not a leader. Your
> complacency with this school district has harmed
> children-not helped. Make no mistake about that
> fact.

I find a lot of these posts surprising. It is in any parent’s best interests to send their kids to the best school possible and there is nothing wrong with that. A casual observation of statistics shows quite clearly that South Lakes is a worse school than Madison, Oakton, and many others in Fairfax. Hence I see no problem with people trying to have the redistricting overturned or applying for transfers.

The county needs to come out of the dark ages and get real on AP and grade scales. The prestige of the school system has declined notably as the school system remains stuck in outdated priorities and a mentality that change isn’t needed. South Lakes is a perfect example of this – no AP classes, no attempt to address concerns of parents, trying to solve a failing school by moving in more kids, etc. I don’t blame people for not wanting to go there

That all being said, I never thought the redistrict lawsuit would be successful. If you just look at the boundary maps, it is pretty obvious what needed to be done, and if I were living there I would have assessed that risk a long time ago.

My view is we need to stop redistricting altogether going forward, and instead focus on improving the system. Our expenditures per student have risen from around $7,000 in 2001 to around $13,000 in 2008 – a stunning 85% increase in 7 years – yet all we hear are complaints about the budget because property values declined 3% in one year. Give me a break. There is a serious mismanagement of resources going on and it needs to be fixed. We need to stop taking ourselves so seriously and do some benchmarking on grade scales, AP classes etc and change attitudes. It is absolutely critical we focus on getting our children into the best colleges possible and I am gravely disappointed this has been lost on the priority scale.

Tom, Northeastern view of all things Southern as evil is laughable. I was not part of white flight, but that won't stop you from implying that I am a jim crow racist segregationist - never changed address or school district, didn't go private, etc. Lived in a neighborhood where whites and black and Jews and catholics...lived, worked, played, studied, and in some cases, worshiped together. Did not assemble on Friday nights dressed in black-face and carrying crosses and torches to burn out shanty-towns. Did not know of any restrictive covenants neighborhoods. I do know of a private beach club in Edgartown, Martha's Vineyard (your Northeastern neck of the woods) that currently doesn't allow blacks or Jews. My liberal friend is a member - does that count?

You are too funny and you do love to mis-characterize posters here. If you have to brag about it (your community activism) then you haven't done shit.

complainers unite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I will compare my community activism with yours
> any day, sister. At the end of the day my
> complaining and public lashing-if need be- of this
> school district will trump any petty and
> insignificant contribution you have ever made to
> this school district.
>
> You, my dear, are a follower, not a leader. Your
> complacency with this school district has harmed
> children-not helped. Make no mistake about that
> fact.

curious Wrote:
> let's talk numbers Wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, for the dated data, but according to the
> > SLHS Improvement report, in 2005 there were a
> > total of 240 students out of 1486 labeled as
> ESL.
> >
> > Of that 240, 92 were considered level
> B3-achieving
> > english proficiency. 61 were advanced and the
> > balance-87 students were levels LA thru B2.
> >
> > This misconception that our schools are overrun
> by
> > kids who don't speak or understand English is
> way
> > overblown.
> >
> > I think FCPS likes for us to think that so they
> > can look for a scapegoat.
>
> Thanks for the data. Now the question becomes how
> do those numbers factor into AYP? The "advanced"
> students should mean they have been here 3 years
> or perhaps 4, and the less advanced 1 year -3
> years. So, how are their test results factored
> into South Lakes making AYP. If a few fail does
> South Lakes pass, or does the majority (at each
> level) have to pass for AYP to be met?

--------
The number to look at is not ESOL (English for Speakers of Other languages) because some children whose first language was not English may now be very proficient in English.

The number to look at is the number of students with "Limited English Proficiency" (LEP), defined by Virginia Department of Education to include students who are status 1 (receiving services), status 4 (refused services), status 2 or 3 (LEP monitor years 1 or 2, respectively).

"English proficient students" includes those whose first language is English as well as students who were formerly LEP.

For South Lakes LEP data go to:
http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:2992335516676917::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320

In 2006=2007 232 SLHS students were LEP, or 16%.
Among other IB schools, that same year:
Robinson had 202 LEP students, 7% of the student population.
Marshall: 201 students / 15%
Mt Vernon: 278 students / 17%
Edison: 337 students / 19%
Lee: 458 / 24%
Annandale: 610 students / 27%
Stuart: 535 students / 36%

well my take is at the end of the day is ya know whatever it takes really to kinda sorta do whats right ya know what I mean, its like really who cares? what matters most is doing whats right for the kids I mean can anyone really throw stones here who live in glass houses?

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> curious Wrote:
> > let's talk numbers Wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry, for the dated data, but according to
> the
> > > SLHS Improvement report, in 2005 there were a
> > > total of 240 students out of 1486 labeled as
> > ESL.
> > >
> > > Of that 240, 92 were considered level
> > B3-achieving
> > > english proficiency. 61 were advanced and
> the
> > > balance-87 students were levels LA thru B2.
> > >
> > > This misconception that our schools are
> overrun
> > by
> > > kids who don't speak or understand English is
> > way
> > > overblown.
> > >
> > > I think FCPS likes for us to think that so
> they
> > > can look for a scapegoat.
> >
> > Thanks for the data. Now the question becomes
> how
> > do those numbers factor into AYP? The
> "advanced"
> > students should mean they have been here 3
> years
> > or perhaps 4, and the less advanced 1 year -3
> > years. So, how are their test results factored
> > into South Lakes making AYP. If a few fail
> does
> > South Lakes pass, or does the majority (at each
> > level) have to pass for AYP to be met?
>
> --------
> The number to look at is not ESOL (English for
> Speakers of Other languages) because some children
> whose first language was not English may now be
> very proficient in English.
>
> The number to look at is the number of students
> with "Limited English Proficiency" (LEP), defined
> by Virginia Department of Education to include
> students who are status 1 (receiving services),
> status 4 (refused services), status 2 or 3 (LEP
> monitor years 1 or 2, respectively).
>
> "English proficient students" includes those whose
> first language is English as well as students who
> were formerly LEP.
>
> For South Lakes LEP data go to:
> http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13
> :2992335516676917::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
>
> In 2006=2007 232 SLHS students were LEP, or 16%.
> Among other IB schools, that same year:
> Robinson had 202 LEP students, 7% of the student
> population.
> Marshall: 201 students / 15%
> Mt Vernon: 278 students / 17%
> Edison: 337 students / 19%
> Lee: 458 / 24%
> Annandale: 610 students / 27%
> Stuart: 535 students / 36%


Okay, but again, what percentage, of any of the acronyms that take the test and are learning English, count towards AYP. In other words, schools with a higher percentage of students that are LEP, would conceivably have a harder time making AYP if those students' scores are part of it.
(and please refer to my post on academic language versus conversational language and having to take the 11th grade English reading and writing SOL after just a relatively short while in the country).

Pissing Match Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom, Northeastern view of all things Southern as evil is laughable. I was not part of white flight, but that won't stop you from implying that I am a jim crow racist segregationist - never changed address or school district, didn't go private, etc. Lived in a neighborhood where whites and black and Jews and catholics...lived, worked, played, studied, and in some cases, worshiped together. Did not assemble on Friday nights dressed in black-face and carrying crosses and torches to burn out shanty-towns. Did not know of any restrictive covenants neighborhoods. I do know of a private beach club in Edgartown, Martha's Vineyard (your Northeastern neck of the woods) that currently doesn't allow blacks or Jews. My liberal friend is a member - does that count?< <

Oh, yea, it was all milk 'n honey for black, Catholics and Jews in the South of the 1950 & 60s. That's why there are fewer Catholics and Jews in the old confederacy than in any other part of the country.

Notice you didn't answer any of the questions posed.

You're proud of Jim Crow, massive resistance and white flight?

Did you even read the restrictive covenants that applied to your neighborhood?

There were no lynchings on Martha's Vineyard in 1955 as happened to Emmitt Till.

Schwerner, Chaney and Goodman weren't executed by sheriffs deputies and buried in a dam in Connecticut.

Viola Leutzo was not shot in Illinios.

The State of Pennsylvania did not pass a law in special session threatening state take over of any local school system that attempted to integrate.

The Democratic Party of Ohio did not prohibit Jews from joining it until the 1970s.

Was Senator Macaca almost re-elected from the State of Michigan?

Does this list need to continue?

The South's and Virginia's history of virulent racial and ethnic bigotry cannot be denied. It's not ancient history. It's an integral part of our life's story.

BTW there are substantial numbers of black families who've own expensive cottages on the Vineyard for several generations. It and Nantucket have a proud abolitionist history as part of the places of refuge during slavery. One of the most popular restaurants on Nantucket is called the "Brotherhood of Theives" which it's sign makes clear refers to the slave trade.

This post reminds me of the Japanese who still claim they were the victims in WWII.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2008 09:29PM by Thomas More.

curious Wrote:
> Okay, but again, what percentage, of any of the
> acronyms that take the test and are learning
> English, count towards AYP. In other words,
> schools with a higher percentage of students that
> are LEP, would conceivably have a harder time
> making AYP if those students' scores are part of
> it.
> (and please refer to my post on academic language
> versus conversational language and having to take
> the 11th grade English reading and writing SOL
> after just a relatively short while in the
> country).
----
"Limited English Proficient (LEP) students in their first year of enrollment in a U.S. public school are counted as participating in Virginia’s assessment system but their reading and mathematics scores are NOT used to calculate AYP. LEP students are counted in the LEP subgroup for two years after they have been reclassified as non-LEP."
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/VDOE/src/vasrc-understandingayp.shtml

Data may not be available to answer your specific query in regards to "academic language versus conversational language" or to count the number of months each student has been in the US or (a better measure) how many years a student has been studying English. HOWEVER, in 2006-2007 South Lakes High School Limited English Proficient students had a 94% pass rate on the the English SOLs. In contrast, in 2006-2007 South Lakes High School Black students had only an 87% pass rate on the the English Reading SOLs and 89% in English Writing.

Notice Hispanic students out-scored White students on the SLHS 06-07 Reading SOL.

06-07 English Reading SOL pass rates for SLHS subgroups:
All Students 95
Female Students 96
Male Students 93
Black Students 87
Hispanic Students 98
White Students 96
Asian Students 98
Other Students 100
Students with Disabilities 76
Not Students with Disabilities 99
Students Identified as Disadvantaged 91
Not Economically Disadvantaged 96
Limited English Proficient Students 94
Not Limited English Proficient 95
Not Migrant 95

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The number to look at is not ESOL (English for
> Speakers of Other languages) because some children
> whose first language was not English may now be
> very proficient in English.
>
> The number to look at is the number of students
> with "Limited English Proficiency" (LEP), defined
> by Virginia Department of Education to include
> students who are status 1 (receiving services),
> status 4 (refused services), status 2 or 3 (LEP
> monitor years 1 or 2, respectively).
>
> "English proficient students" includes those whose
> first language is English as well as students who
> were formerly LEP.
>
> For South Lakes LEP data go to:
> http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13
> :2992335516676917::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
>
> In 2006=2007 232 SLHS students were LEP, or 16%.
> Among other IB schools, that same year:
> Robinson had 202 LEP students, 7% of the student
> population.
> Marshall: 201 students / 15%
> Mt Vernon: 278 students / 17%
> Edison: 337 students / 19%
> Lee: 458 / 24%
> Annandale: 610 students / 27%
> Stuart: 535 students / 36%

Why does Marshall outperform SLHS so much when both schools have similar percentages of LEP students? And does the outperformance explain why the School Board is content to leave Marshall at its current size even though it is smaller than South Lakes?

This time it is truely over. The courts have ruled and there is no money for appeal. Gibson won this battle. We will regroup in the next battle during the school board elections. For now take a deep breath, ignore the gloating of Bruce and Stu, pupil place or send to private school or move or rent elsewhere.
Best of luck.

My last post. I hope this thread dies soon, it has no value; everything has been said over and over again-pro and con. Let's all leave so Thomas and Neen can sit and chat together in private.

now my last post--

Thomas is screwing baffled and Nean is ****you know what the Meeper said about her. We hate all you redistricting people. Go away. This is not a request.

cat is clueless Wrote:
--I don't like cats so maybe that is why this poster
> rubs me the wrong way.
>
> I grow weary of your blind lovefest for SLHS and
> FCPS in general.
>
> What are you really trying to accomplish by
> ignoring all of the systemic failures of both
> institutions?
>
> Of course, we don't expect FCPS to "fix" the
> problems of minority underachievement "overnight"
> but how many years do we give them?
>
> 10, 20??
>
>
> NCLB, which FCPS continues to oppose, is what has
> put the spotlight on the ugly truth within FCPS.
> The trust that there are TWO seperate school
> systems within FCPS.
>
> Read the MSAOC most recent report. Explain to us,
> since you are the hired FCPS cheerleader why in
> the last 4 years, minority application to TJ have
> dropped by nearly 30%
>
> Explain to us why minority enrollment at TJ over
> the last 4 years has dropped nearly 40%.
>
> Things are getting worse, NOT BETTER.

FCPS has devoted hundreds of thousands of dollars to get more students into TJ for at last 10 years. They had a costly Blue Ribbon Committee of people from all over the country to tell FCPS what to do about the lack of Blacks at TJ. They have had the Quest program for TJ for at least ten years. Under that program, Black Students are tutored during the week and on Saturday for 3 YEARS prior to the TJ test. Also, we have Young Scholars whose only goal is to get more Black students in GT centers and TJ. That program expands every year with no evidence that it has helped any Black child in any academic program. Although ONE Black, Young Scholar got into TJ last year. One. Then TJ admissions tried to ration spaces based on geography, so that they could discriminate against more wealthy areas. But that didn't help either, no more Blacks came into TJ. Hundreds of people and millions of dollars, and they still can't find a way to get Black kids into TJ. What a shame. Do you think it will ever occur to them to simply educate Black children, beginning in Kindergarten? Give them real math, phonics, writing, real science and history with dates. Nothing else has worked, why not try basic education? None of their other schemes have worked. They may as well give education a try!

let this thread die Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My last post. I hope this thread dies soon, it
> has no value; everything has been said over and
> over again-pro and con. Let's all leave so Thomas
> and Neen can sit and chat together in private.

I suggest that you ignore this thread since it upsets you.

Is that simple enough for ya?

This sorry flawed process is now being put in place for Coppermine. Same script, same cast of characters, and more importantly, some of the same parents and students being assualted. Should be a law against harrassment.


time to move on Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This time it is truely over. The courts have ruled
> and there is no money for appeal. Gibson won this
> battle. We will regroup in the next battle during
> the school board elections. For now take a deep
> breath, ignore the gloating of Bruce and Stu,
> pupil place or send to private school or move or
> rent elsewhere.
> Best of luck.

Tony Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This sorry flawed process is now being put in
> place for Coppermine. Same script, same cast of
> characters, and more importantly, some of the same
> parents and students being assualted. Should be a
> law against harrassment.
>
>
> time to move on Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This time it is truely over. The courts have
> ruled
> > and there is no money for appeal. Gibson won
> this
> > battle. We will regroup in the next battle
> during
> > the school board elections. For now take a deep
> > breath, ignore the gloating of Bruce and Stu,
> > pupil place or send to private school or move
> or
> > rent elsewhere.
> > Best of luck.


Only difference is Coppermine isn't needed with 200 empty ES seats surrounding the area in the 5 schools. The school board couldn't even define scope, so they will use my kids to fill it to justify it and to socioeconomically engineer it. They can ill afford to have 3 Title 1 schools failing AYP in the same area

I didn't know that. This is even worse than I thought. Can a parent pupil place a kid out of failing elementary school? A failing middle school? Will transportation be provided?


Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tony Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This sorry flawed process is now being put in
> > place for Coppermine. Same script, same cast
> of
> > characters, and more importantly, some of the
> same
> > parents and students being assualted. Should be
> a
> > law against harrassment.
> >
> >
> > time to move on Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This time it is truely over. The courts have
> > ruled
> > > and there is no money for appeal. Gibson won
> > this
> > > battle. We will regroup in the next battle
> > during
> > > the school board elections. For now take a
> deep
> > > breath, ignore the gloating of Bruce and Stu,
> > > pupil place or send to private school or move
> > or
> > > rent elsewhere.
> > > Best of luck.
>
>
> Only difference is Coppermine isn't needed with
> 200 empty ES seats surrounding the area in the 5
> schools. The school board couldn't even define
> scope, so they will use my kids to fill it to
> justify it and to socioeconomically engineer it.
> They can ill afford to have 3 Title 1 schools
> failing AYP in the same area

The sooner people realize that Coppermine is going to be the plunder party prize for Gibson, the better off they will be by moving. Gibson just won the court case, and emerged stronger. He is not going to forget the opposition he faced in SL RD from these Hunter Mill areas. Some of them like McNair and Floris are involved again. He is planning how to teach these areas a lession. He lost the elections in these areas anyway last time, so he does not care. I expect the most bizzare boundary to be drawn for these areas, as Gibson retaliates and extracts his pound of flesh from these areas. He has 10 votes in the SB. Apart from the 2 new members, all others wimps will fall in line with Gibson. It will be like medivial times, when the Gibson and his army of School Board Memebers plunder through these areas.
The only option is to recall Stu Gibson for his other crimes against FCPS students committed earlier last year. Strange that even after he was found guilty of voitating the privacy of a child by the state investigators, he continues to hold a seat on a school board, where he has access to all these children.. Scary.

Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tony Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This sorry flawed process is now being put in
> > place for Coppermine. Same script, same cast
> of
> > characters, and more importantly, some of the
> same
> > parents and students being assualted. Should be
> a
> > law against harrassment.
> >
> >
> > time to move on Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This time it is truely over. The courts have
> > ruled
> > > and there is no money for appeal. Gibson won
> > this
> > > battle. We will regroup in the next battle
> > during
> > > the school board elections. For now take a
> deep
> > > breath, ignore the gloating of Bruce and Stu,
> > > pupil place or send to private school or move
> > or
> > > rent elsewhere.
> > > Best of luck.
>
>
> Only difference is Coppermine isn't needed with
> 200 empty ES seats surrounding the area in the 5
> schools. The school board couldn't even define
> scope, so they will use my kids to fill it to
> justify it and to socioeconomically engineer it.
> They can ill afford to have 3 Title 1 schools
> failing AYP in the same area

The parents claim about exodus from SL was true. Dean Tisdat and School Board Members were lying to get their case through. From the incoming crowd, more than 50% are opting out. Once the private schools and parents who decidied to relocate are factored in, the % could be much higher. It is now clear that the school board members were lying to the public.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/29/AR2008072902046_pf.html

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/29/AR2008072902046_pf.html

One of you on here knows all when do the parties in charge tell us the f airfax county SOL scores

Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tony Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This sorry flawed process is now being put in
> > place for Coppermine. Same script, same cast
> of
> > characters, and more importantly, some of the
> same
> > parents and students being assualted. Should be
> a
> > law against harrassment.
> >
> >
> > time to move on Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This time it is truely over. The courts have
> > ruled
> > > and there is no money for appeal. Gibson won
> > this
> > > battle. We will regroup in the next battle
> > during
> > > the school board elections. For now take a
> deep
> > > breath, ignore the gloating of Bruce and Stu,
> > > pupil place or send to private school or move
> > or
> > > rent elsewhere.
> > > Best of luck.
>
>
> Only difference is Coppermine isn't needed with
> 200 empty ES seats surrounding the area in the 5
> schools. The school board couldn't even define
> scope, so they will use my kids to fill it to
> justify it and to socioeconomically engineer it.
> They can ill afford to have 3 Title 1 schools
> failing AYP in the same area

Please list these surrounding schools with 200 empty seats.

please list schools with empty seats Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------->
> > Only difference is Coppermine isn't needed with
> > 200 empty ES seats surrounding the area in the
> 5
> > schools. The school board couldn't even define
> > scope, so they will use my kids to fill it to
> > justify it and to socioeconomically engineer it.
>
> > They can ill afford to have 3 Title 1 schools
> > failing AYP in the same area
>
> Please list these surrounding schools with 200
> empty seats.

The schools included in the Coppermine study are now projected to have the following excess or insufficient capacity this fall:

Floris: 40 extra seats
Herndon: 137 extra seats
Hutchison: 243 extra seats

McNair: 105 over-capacity
Oak Hill: 125 over-capacity

This may be the basis for the prior poster's observation.

Stat Man Wrote:
> The schools included in the Coppermine study are
> now projected to have the following excess or
> insufficient capacity this fall:
>
> Floris: 40 extra seats
> Herndon: 137 extra seats
> Hutchison: 243 extra seats
> McNair: 105 over-capacity
> Oak Hill: 125 over-capacity
>
> This may be the basis for the prior poster's
> observation.

---------
Modular additions:
Herndon 252 seat capacity
McNair 280 seat capacity
Oak Hill 168 seat capacity

The 2012 seat balance projections WITHOUT the modulars:
Floris -274 seats short
Herndon -109 seats short
Hutchison 220 excess seats
McNair -526 seats short
Oak Hill -256 seats short
Total: -945 seats short WITHOUT Coppermine or mods.

2012 seat balance projections WITHOUT mods for other ESs in the area:
Clearview 83
Crossfield -2
Dogwood 142
Dranesville 95
Fox Mill -85
Lees Corner 45
Total excess seats for these six schools: 278

Can anyone identify the numbers expected from nearby development that could impact the numbers and produce students for Coppermine?

Interestingly, the School Board Staff would not count the development possibilities for SL.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stat Man Wrote:
> > The schools included in the Coppermine study
> are
> > now projected to have the following excess or
> > insufficient capacity this fall:
> >
> > Floris: 40 extra seats
> > Herndon: 137 extra seats
> > Hutchison: 243 extra seats
> > McNair: 105 over-capacity
> > Oak Hill: 125 over-capacity
> >
> > This may be the basis for the prior poster's
> > observation.
>
> ---------
> Modular additions:
> Herndon 252 seat capacity
> McNair 280 seat capacity
> Oak Hill 168 seat capacity
>
> The 2012 seat balance projections WITHOUT the
> modulars:
> Floris -274 seats short
> Herndon -109 seats short
> Hutchison 220 excess seats
> McNair -526 seats short
> Oak Hill -256 seats short
> Total: -945 seats short WITHOUT Coppermine or
> mods.
>
> 2012 seat balance projections WITHOUT mods for
> other ESs in the area:
> Clearview 83
> Crossfield -2
> Dogwood 142
> Dranesville 95
> Fox Mill -85
> Lees Corner 45
> Total excess seats for these six schools: 278

please list schools with empty seats Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anonymous Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tony Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This sorry flawed process is now being put in
> > > place for Coppermine. Same script, same cast
> > of
> > > characters, and more importantly, some of the
> > same
> > > parents and students being assualted. Should
> be
> > a
> > > law against harrassment.
> > >
> > >
> > > time to move on Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > This time it is truely over. The courts
> have
> > > ruled
> > > > and there is no money for appeal. Gibson
> won
> > > this
> > > > battle. We will regroup in the next battle
> > > during
> > > > the school board elections. For now take a
> > deep
> > > > breath, ignore the gloating of Bruce and
> Stu,
> > > > pupil place or send to private school or
> move
> > > or
> > > > rent elsewhere.
> > > > Best of luck.
> >
> >
> > Only difference is Coppermine isn't needed with
> > 200 empty ES seats surrounding the area in the
> 5
> > schools. The school board couldn't even define
> > scope, so they will use my kids to fill it to
> > justify it and to socioeconomically engineer it.
>
> > They can ill afford to have 3 Title 1 schools
> > failing AYP in the same area
>
> Please list these surrounding schools with 200
> empty seats.

Facilities Work Session
July 14, 2008
For each of the schools listed above, Facilities Planning staff met with the
principal, related cluster assistant superintendent and PTA members for the
purpose of discussing:
• Specific concerns for each school that should be addressed by the
boundary study
• Programs at each of these schools, including some discussion of the
history and impact of particular programs on membership, transportation
concerns, etc.
• What benefits could the boundary study accomplish as it relates to a
school
• Transportation issues
The discussions focused on factors of enrollment, capacity, full day kindergarten,
Title I status, center or school based GT programs, foreign language programs,
and impacts to each school’s demographic profile.
The following table provides the school capacity, May 2008 enrollment, fall 2008
projection (based on spring update) and the 2012-13 out year projection for each
school as published in the 2009-2013 CIP.
School Capacity Enrollment Capacity Balance Projections Projections Capacity Balance
Jun-08 May-08 Current Fall-08 2012 2012
Floris 832 815 17 792 1106 -274
Herndon 864 732 132 727 721 143
Hutchison 850 610 240 607 630 220
McNair 910 963 -53 1,015 1156 -246
Oak Hill 826 959 -133 951 914 -88
Total 4,282 4,079 203 4,092 4,527 -245
All of the capacities listed above reflect the results of the design and program
capacity survey and updated capacity calculation undertaken by Design and
Construction earlier this year. The capacity for Herndon includes the recently
installed 10 room (250 student spaces) modular addition to replace the
classroom trailers which the Town of Herndon permitted on a temporary basis.
The capacity for McNair includes a 12 room (300 student spaces) modular
addition. The capacity for Oak Hill includes a 6 room (150 student spaces)
modular addition.
It should be noted that with the exception of Floris and Oak Hill, all of the schools
listed above have full day kindergarten; McNair and Hutchison are presently Title
I schools which provides for additional resources in terms of smaller class size
and additional staffing. Adding full day kindergarten to a school typically
increases enrollment and reduces capacity. Oak Hill presently has a GT Center
which receives students from Floris, Fox Mill, McNair and Lees Corner. Oak Hill
2

Mary Ellen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can anyone identify the numbers expected from
> nearby development that could impact the numbers
> and produce students for Coppermine?
>
> Interestingly, the School Board Staff would not
> count the development possibilities for SL.
>
-----
For elementary schools go to:
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/impacts/elementary.htm

For high schools go to:
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/impacts/high.htm

Mary Ellen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can anyone identify the numbers expected from
> nearby development that could impact the numbers
> and produce students for Coppermine?
>
> Interestingly, the School Board Staff would not
> count the development possibilities for SL.
>
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Stat Man Wrote:
> > > The schools included in the Coppermine study
> > are
> > > now projected to have the following excess or
> > > insufficient capacity this fall:
> > >
> > > Floris: 40 extra seats
> > > Herndon: 137 extra seats
> > > Hutchison: 243 extra seats
> > > McNair: 105 over-capacity
> > > Oak Hill: 125 over-capacity
> > >
> > > This may be the basis for the prior poster's
> > > observation.
> >
> > ---------
> > Modular additions:
> > Herndon 252 seat capacity
> > McNair 280 seat capacity
> > Oak Hill 168 seat capacity
> >
> > The 2012 seat balance projections WITHOUT the
> > modulars:
> > Floris -274 seats short
> > Herndon -109 seats short
> > Hutchison 220 excess seats
> > McNair -526 seats short
> > Oak Hill -256 seats short
> > Total: -945 seats short WITHOUT Coppermine or
> > mods.
> >
> > 2012 seat balance projections WITHOUT mods for
> > other ESs in the area:
> > Clearview 83
> > Crossfield -2
> > Dogwood 142
> > Dranesville 95
> > Fox Mill -85
> > Lees Corner 45
> > Total excess seats for these six schools: 278

They didn't count them because they didn't fit their end goal. They will be counted now as they build a school that isn't needed/wanted and have no kids to put in it (except mine and yours) and need to engineer it properly.

If we stop counting modulars, FR, then we need to do it everywhere...are you ready for that?

Anonymous Wrote:
> ... If we stop counting modulars, FR, then we need to
> do it everywhere...are you ready for that?

------------------------

We should stop counting modulars when the additional students overwhelm what the basic structure of the school can support. While modulars add classrooms and toilets, and may add office space, they usually do NOT add, for example, locker rooms.

Consider Sunrise Valley, a school built for 401 students. Can the school's cafeteria, library, art spaces, gym, custodial closets, playground, and parking lot support the 224 additional children for whom the modular is designed? If so, no problem.

One week, the Sunrise Valley Ele principal told Madison Island parents there was not enough space to take in the Wolftrap reassigned kids.

Weeks later, the principal said there was plenty of space.

Then rumor is that Gibson said, "If there is not enough space, then the GT program will move to Terraset."

A new game in town is called "Making Children Pawns." This is what the school board under Gibson's direction is doing to our kids.........




Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anonymous Wrote:
> > ... If we stop counting modulars, FR, then we
> need to
> > do it everywhere...are you ready for that?
>
> ------------------------
>
> We should stop counting modulars when the
> additional students overwhelm what the basic
> structure of the school can support. While
> modulars add classrooms and toilets, and may add
> office space, they usually do NOT add, for
> example, locker rooms.
>
> Consider Sunrise Valley, a school built for 401
> students. Can the school's cafeteria, library, art
> spaces, gym, custodial closets, playground, and
> parking lot support the 224 additional children
> for whom the modular is designed? If so, no
> problem.

Shame on Stu Gibson for blackmailing the staff. He needs to be removed from SB

Truth Teller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One week, the Sunrise Valley Ele principal told
> Madison Island parents there was not enough space
> to take in the Wolftrap reassigned kids.
>
> Weeks later, the principal said there was plenty
> of space.
>
> Then rumor is that Gibson said, "If there is not
> enough space, then the GT program will move to
> Terraset."
>
> A new game in town is called "Making Children
> Pawns." This is what the school board under
> Gibson's direction is doing to our kids.........
>
>
>
>
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anonymous Wrote:
> > > ... If we stop counting modulars, FR, then we
> > need to
> > > do it everywhere...are you ready for that?
> >
> > ------------------------
> >
> > We should stop counting modulars when the
> > additional students overwhelm what the basic
> > structure of the school can support. While
> > modulars add classrooms and toilets, and may
> add
> > office space, they usually do NOT add, for
> > example, locker rooms.
> >
> > Consider Sunrise Valley, a school built for 401
> > students. Can the school's cafeteria, library,
> art
> > spaces, gym, custodial closets, playground, and
> > parking lot support the 224 additional children
> > for whom the modular is designed? If so, no
> > problem.

How will these parents escape Coppermine. Is there a simillar way out here?

exodus claim was true Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The parents claim about exodus from SL was true.
> Dean Tisdat and School Board Members were lying to
> get their case through. From the incoming crowd,
> more than 50% are opting out. Once the private
> schools and parents who decidied to relocate are
> factored in, the % could be much higher. It is now
> clear that the school board members were lying to
> the public.
>
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
> le/2008/07/29/AR2008072902046_pf.html
>
> www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008
> /07/29/AR2008072902046_pf.html

Does anyone know how schools get the title 1 label. With mostly the current mcnair body feeding coppermine, will Coppermine start off as title 1 school or will they wait for couple of years become giving it title 1. I heard that title 1 school gets more dollars than regular schools from the state. Is that true?

title 1 Wrote:
> Does anyone know how schools get the title 1
> label. With mostly the current mcnair body feeding
> coppermine, will Coppermine start off as title 1
> school or will they wait for couple of years
> become giving it title 1. I heard that title 1
> school gets more dollars than regular schools from
> the state. Is that true?
--------
"CD# TW05 Question # 9 FY 2009
Prepared By: Deirdra McLaughlin, Peter J. Noonan
Date Prepared: January 25, 2008

Question:
We receive money for Title I schools. What percentage of free or reduced-price lunch (FRM) students does a school have to have to qualify for “full funding”? How much do we receive for those schools? Additional funding is available for schools with a lesser degree of FRM. What is the delta between the full and partial funding? If all of our fully funded schools were changed to partially funded, what would be the loss of revenue to FCPS? (TW05 – McLaughlin, Noonan)

Response:
FCPS receives $15.2 million in Title I funding. We set aside the amount needed to run the program centrally, including the amount for NCLB sanctions that is increasing every year. The remainder of funds is distributed to the schools according to a federal formula. A per pupil amount is calculated and schools receive funding based on their number of low income children.

In FCPS, the Title I program serves elementary schools. Schools qualify based on percentage of poverty. In FY 2008, we are serving schools with a poverty level of 38.8 percent or more, but that percentage changes from year to year based on funding. Fairfax City receives a separate allocation and both of its schools receive funding.

There are no designations of “fully funded” or “partially funded” schools. Schools with 40 percent or higher poverty have the option to implement “schoolwide” models; schools below 40 percent are “targeted assistance” schools. In schoolwide programs, Title I funds are used to support all students; in targeted assistance schools only the lowest achieving students are served. These two models determine how the school uses Title I funds, not the amount of funding. In the 2007-2008 school year, 31 schools are schoolwide and three are targeted assistance."

In the RDed areas I have yet to meet a person, who does not have ***** words to describe Gibson. He must be the most hated person in western huntermill areas.

coppermine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The sooner people realize that Coppermine is going
> to be the plunder party prize for Gibson, the
> better off they will be by moving. Gibson just won
> the court case, and emerged stronger. He is not
> going to forget the opposition he faced in SL RD
> from these Hunter Mill areas. Some of them like
> McNair and Floris are involved again. He is
> planning how to teach these areas a lession. He
> lost the elections in these areas anyway last
> time, so he does not care. I expect the most
> bizzare boundary to be drawn for these areas, as
> Gibson retaliates and extracts his pound of flesh
> from these areas. He has 10 votes in the SB. Apart
> from the 2 new members, all others wimps will fall
> in line with Gibson. It will be like medivial
> times, when the Gibson and his army of School
> Board Memebers plunder through these areas.
> The only option is to recall Stu Gibson for his
> other crimes against FCPS students committed
> earlier last year. Strange that even after he was
> found guilty of voitating the privacy of a child
> by the state investigators, he continues to hold a
> seat on a school board, where he has access to all
> these children.. Scary.
>
> Anonymous Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tony Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This sorry flawed process is now being put in
> > > place for Coppermine. Same script, same cast
> > of
> > > characters, and more importantly, some of the
> > same
> > > parents and students being assualted. Should
> be
> > a
> > > law against harrassment.
> > >
> > >
> > > time to move on Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > This time it is truely over. The courts
> have
> > > ruled
> > > > and there is no money for appeal. Gibson
> won
> > > this
> > > > battle. We will regroup in the next battle
> > > during
> > > > the school board elections. For now take a
> > deep
> > > > breath, ignore the gloating of Bruce and
> Stu,
> > > > pupil place or send to private school or
> move
> > > or
> > > > rent elsewhere.
> > > > Best of luck.
> >
> >
> > Only difference is Coppermine isn't needed with
> > 200 empty ES seats surrounding the area in the
> 5
> > schools. The school board couldn't even define
> > scope, so they will use my kids to fill it to
> > justify it and to socioeconomically engineer it.
>
> > They can ill afford to have 3 Title 1 schools
> > failing AYP in the same area

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> title 1 Wrote:
> > Does anyone know how schools get the title 1
> > label. With mostly the current mcnair body
> feeding
> > coppermine, will Coppermine start off as title
> 1
> > school or will they wait for couple of years
> > become giving it title 1. I heard that title 1
> > school gets more dollars than regular schools
> from
> > the state. Is that true?
> --------
> "CD# TW05 Question # 9 FY 2009
> Prepared By: Deirdra McLaughlin, Peter J. Noonan
>
> Date Prepared: January 25, 2008
>
> Question:
> We receive money for Title I schools. What
> percentage of free or reduced-price lunch (FRM)
> students does a school have to have to qualify for
> “full funding”? How much do we receive for those
> schools? Additional funding is available for
> schools with a lesser degree of FRM. What is the
> delta between the full and partial funding? If
> all of our fully funded schools were changed to
> partially funded, what would be the loss of
> revenue to FCPS? (TW05 – McLaughlin, Noonan)
>
> Response:
> FCPS receives $15.2 million in Title I funding.
> We set aside the amount needed to run the program
> centrally, including the amount for NCLB sanctions
> that is increasing every year. The remainder of
> funds is distributed to the schools according to a
> federal formula. A per pupil amount is calculated
> and schools receive funding based on their number
> of low income children.
>
> In FCPS, the Title I program serves elementary
> schools. Schools qualify based on percentage of
> poverty. In FY 2008, we are serving schools with a
> poverty level of 38.8 percent or more, but that
> percentage changes from year to year based on
> funding. Fairfax City receives a separate
> allocation and both of its schools receive
> funding.
>
> There are no designations of “fully funded” or
> “partially funded” schools. Schools with 40
> percent or higher poverty have the option to
> implement “schoolwide” models; schools below 40
> percent are “targeted assistance” schools. In
> schoolwide programs, Title I funds are used to
> support all students; in targeted assistance
> schools only the lowest achieving students are
> served. These two models determine how the school
> uses Title I funds, not the amount of funding. In
> the 2007-2008 school year, 31 schools are
> schoolwide and three are targeted assistance."

Could someone clarify the funding formula for me?

If a school has over 40% FRM than they are labeled Title I, correct?

With the Title I designation, the ENTIRE school gets federal money-even the non-FRM kids???

So do Title I schools get more money per pupil that non Title I schools? What incentive would schools have to loweer than percentage under 40%??

Maybe I am missing something......

Title I Question?? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > In FCPS, the Title I program serves elementary
> > schools. Schools qualify based on percentage
> of
> > poverty. In FY 2008, we are serving schools with
> a
> > poverty level of 38.8 percent or more, but that
> > percentage changes from year to year based on
> > funding. Fairfax City receives a separate
> > allocation and both of its schools receive
> > funding.
> >
> > There are no designations of “fully funded” or
> > “partially funded” schools. Schools with 40
> > percent or higher poverty have the option to
> > implement “schoolwide” models; schools below 40
> > percent are “targeted assistance” schools. In
> > schoolwide programs, Title I funds are used to
> > support all students; in targeted assistance
> > schools only the lowest achieving students are
> > served. These two models determine how the
> school
> > uses Title I funds, not the amount of funding.
> In
> > the 2007-2008 school year, 31 schools are
> > schoolwide and three are targeted assistance."
>
> Could someone clarify the funding formula for me?
>
> If a school has over 40% FRM than they are labeled
> Title I, correct?
>
> With the Title I designation, the ENTIRE school
> gets federal money-even the non-FRM kids???
>
> So do Title I schools get more money per pupil
> that non Title I schools? What incentive would
> schools have to loweer than percentage under
> 40%??
>
> Maybe I am missing something......

It doesn't mean that the kids get the money. Ttle 1 schoolwide funding, when it is more than 40% would mean the school could, for example, high a language arts teacher (SULA is the acronym for Title 1..I believe it means stepped up language arts, they also have SU math teachers via title 1) and that teacher could serve all students who need assistance in that curriculum. If it is less than 40% the SULA teacher would only serve the FRM kids, who are also the lowest achieving (in other words if a kid is FRM but not lowest achieving they won't be served). Usually, when it is targeted assistance/less than 40%, the SULA teacher is part time.

gibsonsucks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the RDed areas I have yet to meet a person, who
> does not have ***** words to describe Gibson. He
> must be the most hated person in western
> huntermill areas.
>
Yet he will easily win re election because democrats are just that dumb.

Sorry~

curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

It doesn't mean that the kids get the money. Ttle
> 1 schoolwide funding, when it is more than 40%
> would mean the school could, for example, high a
> language arts teacher (SULA is the acronym for
> Title 1..I believe it means stepped up language
> arts, they also have SU math teachers via title 1)
> and that teacher could serve all students who need
> assistance in that curriculum. If it is less than
> 40% the SULA teacher would only serve the FRM
> kids, who are also the lowest achieving (in other
> words if a kid is FRM but not lowest achieving
> they won't be served). Usually, when it is
> targeted assistance/less than 40%, the SULA
> teacher is part time.

Doesn't the principal always determine how the money is spent at her/his school?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> curious Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> It doesn't mean that the kids get the money.
> Ttle
> > 1 schoolwide funding, when it is more than 40%
> > would mean the school could, for example, high
> a
> > language arts teacher (SULA is the acronym for
> > Title 1..I believe it means stepped up language
> > arts, they also have SU math teachers via title
> 1)
> > and that teacher could serve all students who
> need
> > assistance in that curriculum. If it is less
> than
> > 40% the SULA teacher would only serve the FRM
> > kids, who are also the lowest achieving (in
> other
> > words if a kid is FRM but not lowest achieving
> > they won't be served). Usually, when it is
> > targeted assistance/less than 40%, the SULA
> > teacher is part time.
>
> Doesn't the principal always determine how the
> money is spent at her/his school?

Not sure what you are asking. If they are allotted Title 1 funds they can probably determine how those funds would best benefit their school. I gave an example of SULA teachers simply to show how the difference would be: schoolwide verses targeted assistance. I would hesitate to say all, because I haven't investigated, but I would venture that the majority of Title 1 elementary schools have SULA teachers, or SU Math teachers (SUM?)

If your question is how they spend all of their money, doubt they can determine how every penny is spent. Staffing is determined by the county, so that can be somewhat limiting; program funding comes from a variety of sources, and each program or "fad" probably has specifics associated with it. I am just guessing...not a FCPS employee nor have I ever dealt with school budgets...but I don't think FCPS schools are so site based managed that the principal is allowed to use the money any way he/she desires.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gibsonsucks Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In the RDed areas I have yet to meet a person,
> who
> > does not have ***** words to describe Gibson.
> He
> > must be the most hated person in western
> > huntermill areas.
> >
> Yet he will easily win re election because
> democrats are just that dumb.
>
> Sorry~

Dumbness must be bipartisan. See, e.g., Dubya win in 2004. 1-20-09....End of an error.....

Sorry...but not so funny.

Paging Mr. L Craig Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > gibsonsucks Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > In the RDed areas I have yet to meet a
> person,
> > who
> > > does not have ***** words to describe Gibson.
> > He
> > > must be the most hated person in western
> > > huntermill areas.
> > >
> > Yet he will easily win re election because
> > democrats are just that dumb.
> >
> > Sorry~
>
> Dumbness must be bipartisan. See, e.g., Dubya win
> in 2004. 1-20-09....End of an error.....
>
> Sorry...but not so funny.

Yeah, I agree, our school board is not funny, but it is dominated by democrats. People in Hunter Mill would vote for an ol' yellow dog, (and often have) if he's on the democrat sample ballot. Dumb as rocks.

How stupid to paint everyone with such a broad stroke. Geez, you can't generalize about people like that. It would be nice if we could, though, because it would make it easier to categorize our world. But a thinking person realizes that individuals abound, and categorizing people so broadly reveals arrogance or ignorance or both.

DogsArePeopleToo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How stupid to paint everyone with such a broad
> stroke. Geez, you can't generalize about people
> like that. It would be nice if we could, though,
> because it would make it easier to categorize our
> world. But a thinking person realizes that
> individuals abound, and categorizing people so
> broadly reveals arrogance or ignorance or both.

HUH? Are you saying that 10 people on the school board are not democrats? Or that people in Hunter Mill don't elect every democrat on their ballot?
I don't suppose you have any evidence of either, do you?