Thomas More Wrote:
>
> It looks as if the RD was solely for cosmetic
> purposes, i.e., to get kids into the school to
> make it look better not to actually improve the
> school for FRM and ESL kids. Too bad, they need
> the help.

For once, we agree. The SB, Gibson in particular, simply hope to raise SL test scores.

To Betsy.....being close is a good thing.....especially when the kid misses the school bus. But for the life of me, moving my kid from Thoreau, high performing school to Hughes, is about more than proximity.




betsy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're Welcome Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The kids at SL could actually care less whether
> or
> > not there are more students at their school
> next
> > year. They didn't ask for this. I'm sure they
> > will welcome the new students with open arms
> none
> > the less though. After all, it wasn't the "new
> > kids" fault that their "helicopter parents"
> made
> > such a fuss about this whole issue.
>
>
>
>
> Amen to that. I myslef could not be happier that
> my kids are going to go to school three miles from
> my house instead of 10 .

Reston Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Who came up with Reston's social design? The county, Robert E. Simon and other local politicians. The cause is the poor planning . . .< <

Actually Mr. Simon did an outstanding job of planning Reston and his plans and the execution of them have won countless awards. Sorry you don't appreciate his efforts.

So now how is Oakton area going to handle all the refugees coming from FM, trying to flee SL? Maybe United Nations can help manage the exodus.

Blame Supervisor Hudgins and the supervisors who approved the zoning before her tenure

. Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reston Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Who came up with Reston's social design? The
> county, Robert E. Simon and other local
> politicians. The cause is the poor planning . . .<
> <
>
> Actually Mr. Simon did an outstanding job of
> planning Reston and his plans and the execution of
> them have won countless awards. Sorry you don't
> appreciate his efforts.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reston Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Who came up with Reston's social design? The
> county, Robert E. Simon and other local
> politicians. The cause is the poor planning . . .<
> <
>
> Actually Mr. Simon did an outstanding job of
> planning Reston and his plans and the execution of
> them have won countless awards. Sorry you don't
> appreciate his efforts.

True. Liberals love those planned communities, even if they don't work well. Liberals love telling people how to live, makes them feel good to run everyone's life. And they love making up awards to praise their own efforts, to pat themselves on the back.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>he loss in the
> lawsuit is in my view a good thing. Even thought
> the School Board botched it terribly here, in a
> jurisdiction of over a million people, officials
> must have the discretion to redistrict. But if I
> were a SLHS supporter invested in this (and while
> I no longer have kids in the system, I could see
> becoming interested in helping out - Reston offers
> a very interesting set of challenges with, unlike
> many other places, some resources to work on
> them), I would now be worried. Not worried in the
> political sense, or even insecure sense. But this
> is a moment to make the absolute most of a
> conflict ridden situation, and it should be taken
> advantage of, because the peril is that the
> numbers over time simply won't increase. This
> issue has received considerable local attention,
> as well as a bit of national attention. Has
> anyone, for example, thought of calling the KIPP
> (Knowledge is Power Program) people in to take a
> look at what SLHS is doing? This is not to say
> that the school should adopt KIPP but they have
> had some success in difficult communities - this
> is the time to shake things up and shoot for
> excellence.

Since Stu and the staff wouldn't consider any kind of magnet program, even a part time one, or an AP program, why do you think that South Lakes would try anything different now? They have ZERO incentive to do so.

I agree that without something different, especially an AP program with a strong emphasis on math, science, and computer science, nothing will change at South Lakes. The redistricting will not work because too few students will attend the school. The SB is unaware that people in this area have money and money gives them choices in all things, including schools. The SB and staff thought that forcing students into South Lakes would be all that was necessary. It never occurred to them that they needed to provide incentives, and meet the desires of the incoming community in some way, if they wanted to get good students to attend South Lakes. Because they failed to provide any incentives, only families with no other resources will send their children to South Lakes.
Needless to say, those students will not be students who are on the top. Those few students will not help South Lakes.

The staff and school board simply blew a good opportunity to do something right for South Lakes. Because of their arrogance and ignorance, they didn't do anything for South Lakes, other than anger more people against the school, against staff, and against the school board. What a shame.

Mary Ellen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Betsy.....being close is a good
> thing.....especially when the kid misses the
> school bus. But for the life of me, moving my kid
> from Thoreau, high performing school to Hughes, is
> about more than proximity.

If proximity was the biggest issue for parents, no one would send their child to TJ, much less private schools in McLean and DC. And people who live on the Loudoun border wouldn't be so happy that their children are going to Cooper and Langley. When they start clambering to be redistricted out of Langley and into Herndon and South Lakes, we will know that proximity is the most important issue.

Red Carpet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen JR.
> I'm fine with my child going to SL. My child told
> us that he/she preferred going to South Lakes over
> Oakton, so I supported my child's wishes after the
> decision was made in February. It's you nubbin'
> parents on this sight that are the problem. Again,
> Ask yourself how you would feel if you were
> forced to go to Oakton or Chantilly and have to
> leave South Lakes. Be honest about it. Go
> Seahawks!

Hey there! Nice to meet you, we all heard about you, the one parent in Fox Mill who is happily sending her daughter to South Lakes because her two little friends want to go there! It's always a good idea to base your parental choices on what 13 girls want to do.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reality is, as the population continues to
> grow, and the need for affordable housing grows
> too, the rest of the county will experience what
> Reston is already experiencing. If they think
> they can continue to live in their little enclaves
> forever, I think they are wrong.
>
Why can't they live where they can afford to live, like everyone else? Why do the taxpayers have to fund their homes so that they live where they can't afford to live?

Without the silly zoning laws, there would be plenty of "affordable" (whatever that means) housing. Every builder would love to throw up more high rise buildings, but the liberals would never allow that. They must control who can build what where.

You are very wrong if you think that the better parts of the county, like McLean, Oakton, Great Falls, and McLean, Fairfax station, are going to allow taxpayer funded housing. They aren't. Why would they? They understand economics and support people living anyplace they can afford to live.

I would suggest that those people who want more "affordable" housing for others to provide such housing. Rent out your basement, cheaply, to a needy family that doesn't want to have to commute from Sterling or Manassas, where they could afford to live.

Are you aware that houses can now be purchased in Manassas for less than $100,000 with some as low as $59,000? Lots of affordable housing, without spending a dime of taxpayer's money.
http://novabubblefallout.blogspot.com/

Aren't markets grand?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2008 02:48AM by Neen.

The final tally from RD:

Winners : School Board Politicians like Stu Gibson in furthering thier political careers
Losers: Students of Fox Mill , MI and Floris who now have a failing High School
Losers: Ffx County taxpayers who will bear the cost of this bussing

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid - you are likely correct in
> your points about the tax base. The amazing thing
> is that there is no shortage of people willing to
> live in those jurisdictions and pay those taxes.
> There would not be any shortage here would small
> jurisdictions obtain, at least as regards the
> so-called desirable districts. So while
> Oaktonites would complain about the taxes, they
> would pay them. No reason to think that Oakton
> would be any different than Glencoe, Illinois, Dix
> Hills, New York, or Marin County in California.
>
> Of course, some may refer to those who make this
> kind of choice as "elitist." Maybe so, but that
> moniker does not change the fact that the impulse
> to place students in schools with lots of other
> good students (the "crowd", as referred to above)
> is incredibly strong. Our realtor friends can of
> course confirm the same.
>
> Without meaning to be insensitive, the loss in the
> lawsuit is in my view a good thing. Even thought
> the School Board botched it terribly here, in a
> jurisdiction of over a million people, officials
> must have the discretion to redistrict. But if I
> were a SLHS supporter invested in this (and while
> I no longer have kids in the system, I could see
> becoming interested in helping out - Reston offers
> a very interesting set of challenges with, unlike
> many other places, some resources to work on
> them), I would now be worried. Not worried in the
> political sense, or even insecure sense. But this
> is a moment to make the absolute most of a
> conflict ridden situation, and it should be taken
> advantage of, because the peril is that the
> numbers over time simply won't increase. This
> issue has received considerable local attention,
> as well as a bit of national attention. Has
> anyone, for example, thought of calling the KIPP
> (Knowledge is Power Program) people in to take a
> look at what SLHS is doing? This is not to say
> that the school should adopt KIPP but they have
> had some success in difficult communities - this
> is the time to shake things up and shoot for
> excellence.


Really, Quantum, people would move to a district where the district had twice as much taxes for a marginally better school? Some might, but I wouldn't.

Despite what keeps getting repeated here, which doesn't make it true, BTW, SL is not a failing school.

It was worse than that.....the objective was to bring in students who would not contribute to the percentage of F & RM and ESOL. The talking points the SL students used in the room that I was in....."We want the percentage of F &RM and ESOL to go down." "By bringing in students from the million dollar houses the percentage points will drop."



SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> > It looks as if the RD was solely for cosmetic
> > purposes, i.e., to get kids into the school to
> > make it look better not to actually improve the
> > school for FRM and ESL kids. Too bad, they need
> > the help.
>
> For once, we agree. The SB, Gibson in particular,
> simply hope to raise SL test scores.

Neen,
I understand where you are coming from--people should pay to live where they can afford. Totally get that. An interesting question is, what would happen if the county had no affordable housing?

I don't think it is a simple relationship between affordable housing and the types of people and situations that put them there and what effect it has on society. Some people simply need help--they cannot function on their own. Some are taught to be dependent on welfare. That's clearly bad. But what about the people that need some temporary help, who might be on the street because of a job loss, medical bills,etc? Or who are starting a new life and need some help?

The Atlantic Monthly article suggests that spreading out affordable housing can also spread crime. But, they are looking at one segment of the population, as Quantum would call, the disenfranchised.

I don't think the affordable housing in Reston is full of one type or another, it's a mix. That's also why South Lakes is not nearly as bad as people think. In fact, your kids might actually learn something by getting to know kids of different backgrounds. What a concept! I know my kids at least understand that not everyone can get a car when they are 16, or get an iPod, that money is finite and something to work for and be appreciated. I wonder if the Oakton kids can say the same.

NEEN YOU ARE A HEARTLESS BITCH WHOS BEEN SPOILED ALL THEIR LIFE
WHO CANT UNDERSTAND THE SINGLE PARENT MOTHER WHO DOESNT GET CHILD SUPPORT
AND HAS TO SUPPORT 4 KIDS BY WORKING 2 JOBS AND TRYING TO SEND HER KIDS TO COLLEGE
AND WANTS TO KEEP THEIR KIDS IN A NICE AND SAFE ENVIORMENT WHERE THEY WONT GET CAUGHT UP IN BAD THINGS.

MAYBE IF YOU WALKED IN THEIR SHOES YOU COULD SEE THE OTHER SIDE.






Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------




> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The reality is, as the population continues to
> > grow, and the need for affordable housing grows
> > too, the rest of the county will experience
> what
> > Reston is already experiencing. If they think
> > they can continue to live in their little
> enclaves
> > forever, I think they are wrong.
> >
> Why can't they live where they can afford to live,
> like everyone else? Why do the taxpayers have to
> fund their homes so that they live where they
> can't afford to live?
>
> Without the silly zoning laws, there would be
> plenty of "affordable" (whatever that means)
> housing. Every builder would love to throw up
> more high rise buildings, but the liberals would
> never allow that. They must control who can build
> what where.
>
> You are very wrong if you think that the better
> parts of the county, like McLean, Oakton, Great
> Falls, and McLean, Fairfax station, are going to
> allow taxpayer funded housing. They aren't. Why
> would they? They understand economics and support
> people living anyplace they can afford to live.
>
> I would suggest that those people who want more
> "affordable" housing for others to provide such
> housing. Rent out your basement, cheaply, to a
> needy family that doesn't want to have to commute
> from Sterling or Manassas, where they could afford
> to live.
>
> Are you aware that houses can now be purchased in
> Manassas for less than $100,000 with some as low
> as $59,000? Lots of affordable housing, without
> spending a dime of taxpayer's money.
> http://novabubblefallout.blogspot.com/
>
> Aren't markets grand?

Article in today's Post Metro says about 100 kids rd'ed to SL have transferred to other FCPS high schools and less than RD'ed 130 kids coming in September. No word on the number going to private schools.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Liberals love those planned communities, even if they don't work well.< <

Outside of SL which Simon is not responsible for, what part of Reston doesn't work?

> > Liberals love telling people how to live, makes them feel good to run everyone's life.< <

And far right wing nuts don't? All ideologues suffer from grandiosity and hubris.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Shrodingers Cat Wrote:
> > > Additionally, and you should be happy to hear,
> the marketplace has dictated that many Section 8
> vouchers were not renewed, which is a good thing
> for Reston and it's property owners, including
> apartment owners.< <
>
> I'm sure snobs like you believe that but Mr. Simon
> doesn't.
>

Why is supporting the ownership rights of apartment owners snobbish? It is a question of trusting the marketplace, not the government, and has nothing to do with snobbery. Why must you always attack and name-call anyone with whom you disagree? Are your ideas so limpid that they can't stand on their own?

Well the case went as we expected. It's a shame but must keep our heads up.

It's time for the second meeting.

We had five Mom's respond so this should be a big meeting. Mary said she is bringing Ice cream and apple pies that she is goping to make. I'm going to bring a bunch of different Ben & Gerry's Ice cream. I love that ice cream. Cookie dough is my favorite.

The tea idea is still good. We'll have that as well. We need to gets some single guys involved so if your a single guy in Oakton please show up.

We'll discuss the new Oakton mascots. Last time the name Pathers was a good idea. We need to start our fund raising and get our paypal account ready. I'm going to set that up and I'll keep track of all of the donations.

We need some place that we can all sit down comfortably and hopefully not have to walk very far from our cars. I get a little winded walking far.

Okay so post your idea : ))

Neen Wrote:
> I agree that without something different,
> especially an AP program with a strong emphasis on
> math, science, and computer science, nothing will
> change at South Lakes. The redistricting will not
> work because too few students will attend the
> school. The SB is unaware that people in this area
> have money and money gives them choices in all
> things, including schools. The SB and staff
> thought that forcing students into South Lakes
> would be all that was necessary. It never
> occurred to them that they needed to provide
> incentives, and meet the desires of the incoming
> community in some way, if they wanted to get good
> students to attend South Lakes. Because they
> failed to provide any incentives, only families
> with no other resources will send their children
> to South Lakes.
> Needless to say, those students will not be
> students who are on the top. Those few students
> will not help South Lakes.
>
> The staff and school board simply blew a good
> opportunity to do something right for South Lakes.
> Because of their arrogance and ignorance, they
> didn't do anything for South Lakes, other than
> anger more people against the school, against
> staff, and against the school board. What a
> shame.


Neen, you and others want to believe all of this, but there are a number of redistricted families with considerable resources who are sending their students to SL. Many of these students had their pupil-placements (out of SL) approved but have since changed their minds. These are smart kids with much ambition and who see the great opportunity that SL's small size offers. As you have suggested, the number of these students is probably not enough to make a huge difference in performance. And as Thomas More has said this certainly will not improve the school for FRM and ESL kids.

TAD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> > I agree that without something different,
> > especially an AP program with a strong emphasis
> on
> > math, science, and computer science, nothing
> will
> > change at South Lakes. The redistricting will
> not
> > work because too few students will attend the
> > school. The SB is unaware that people in this
> area
> > have money and money gives them choices in all
> > things, including schools. The SB and staff
> > thought that forcing students into South Lakes
> > would be all that was necessary. It never
> > occurred to them that they needed to provide
> > incentives, and meet the desires of the
> incoming
> > community in some way, if they wanted to get
> good
> > students to attend South Lakes. Because they
> > failed to provide any incentives, only families
> > with no other resources will send their
> children
> > to South Lakes.
> > Needless to say, those students will not be
> > students who are on the top. Those few
> students
> > will not help South Lakes.
> >
> > The staff and school board simply blew a good
> > opportunity to do something right for South
> Lakes.
> > Because of their arrogance and ignorance, they
> > didn't do anything for South Lakes, other than
> > anger more people against the school, against
> > staff, and against the school board. What a
> > shame.
>
>
> Neen, you and others want to believe all of this,
> but there are a number of redistricted families
> with considerable resources who are sending their
> students to SL. Many of these students had their
> pupil-placements (out of SL) approved but have
> since changed their minds. These are smart kids
> with much ambition and who see the great
> opportunity that SL's small size offers. As you
> have suggested, the number of these students is
> probably not enough to make a huge difference in
> performance. And as Thomas More has said this
> certainly will not improve the school for FRM and
> ESL kids.


I'm sorry, I don't believe there are "MANY" students who had their pupil placement forms approved and then changed their minds and decided to go to SL. (There may be some who request PP to Oakton, but were given Herndon instead, which is not a good option for most in FM. If they rejected the Herndon offer I do not consider them changing their mind if they decided on SL versus Herndon. The goal was to go back to their original home school.

The SB has offered the families in FM and FL nothing. We lost Oakton, we lost AP. Even if they had put in just an AP math curriculum at SL they wouldn't have had so many people leave or want to leave. IB math HL only covers half of the AP Calc BC curriculum--and IB does not cover Multivariable Calc and Linear Alg at all. Why would a strong math student want to lose so much math? The good thing for SL is that they do have some terrific math teachers. If they taught more math we'd be going there.

I use to think Fox Mill was a nice area until I saw that two crack houses had been busted there. I guess you really can't tell where the drugies are these days. Times sure have changed.

It's about the math Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm sorry, I don't believe there are "MANY"
> students who had their pupil placement forms
> approved and then changed their minds and decided
> to go to SL. (There may be some who request PP to
> Oakton, but were given Herndon instead, which is
> not a good option for most in FM. If they
> rejected the Herndon offer I do not consider them
> changing their mind if they decided on SL versus
> Herndon. The goal was to go back to their
> original home school.
>
> The SB has offered the families in FM and FL
> nothing. We lost Oakton, we lost AP. Even if
> they had put in just an AP math curriculum at SL
> they wouldn't have had so many people leave or
> want to leave. IB math HL only covers half of the
> AP Calc BC curriculum--and IB does not cover
> Multivariable Calc and Linear Alg at all. Why
> would a strong math student want to lose so much
> math? The good thing for SL is that they do have
> some terrific math teachers. If they taught more
> math we'd be going there.


Whine, whine, whine, it is not all about back to Oakton. Fox Mill people are a bunch of whiners. Really if Oakton was all that, the rest of your classmates would have fought harder to keep you there. But as you don't see, they could care less. If it is really about AP, then you should be happy at Herndon or Madison.

It's about the math Wrote:
IB math HL only covers half of the
> AP Calc BC curriculum--and IB does not cover
> Multivariable Calc and Linear Alg at all. Why
> would a strong math student want to lose so much
> math? The good thing for SL is that they do have
> some terrific math teachers. If they taught more
> math we'd be going there.

I googled to find a syllabus for HL math, out of curiosity. I wish SL's had this posted, but clearly HL math does cover multi-variable and linear. check this out: http://www.amersol.edu.pe/hs/math/curriculum/higherlevel.asp

unwhine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's about the math Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > I'm sorry, I don't believe there are "MANY"
> > students who had their pupil placement forms
> > approved and then changed their minds and
> decided
> > to go to SL. (There may be some who request PP
> to
> > Oakton, but were given Herndon instead, which
> is
> > not a good option for most in FM. If they
> > rejected the Herndon offer I do not consider
> them
> > changing their mind if they decided on SL
> versus
> > Herndon. The goal was to go back to their
> > original home school.
> >
> > The SB has offered the families in FM and FL
> > nothing. We lost Oakton, we lost AP. Even if
> > they had put in just an AP math curriculum at
> SL
> > they wouldn't have had so many people leave or
> > want to leave. IB math HL only covers half of
> the
> > AP Calc BC curriculum--and IB does not cover
> > Multivariable Calc and Linear Alg at all. Why
> > would a strong math student want to lose so
> much
> > math? The good thing for SL is that they do
> have
> > some terrific math teachers. If they taught
> more
> > math we'd be going there.
>
>
> Whine, whine, whine, it is not all about back to
> Oakton. Fox Mill people are a bunch of whiners.
> Really if Oakton was all that, the rest of your
> classmates would have fought harder to keep you
> there. But as you don't see, they could care
> less. If it is really about AP, then you should
> be happy at Herndon or Madison.


Hey watch what you say. My daughter has a friend who resides in Fox Mill and has an older brother who is already an Oakton student and considered "grandfathered". He will be able to be bussed but NOT his sister. Someone would have to provide transportation for her (she was pupil placed to Oakton). It is very inconvenient for those families with older grandathered students from the redistricted areas with their kids going to different high schools, same high school but one or more being bussed while the other through private transportation. It is ridiculous. The next several years are going to be trying.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hey watch what you say. My daughter has a friend
> who resides in Fox Mill and has an older brother
> who is already an Oakton student and considered
> "grandfathered". He will be able to be bussed but
> NOT his sister. Someone would have to provide
> transportation for her (she was pupil placed to
> Oakton). It is very inconvenient for those
> families with older grandathered students from the
> redistricted areas with their kids going to
> different high schools, same high school but one
> or more being bussed while the other through
> private transportation. It is ridiculous. The
> next several years are going to be trying.

Be sure to get your transportation waiver form turned in. Assuming the bus for the older sibling is not full, this will allow the younger one to also ride the same bus to Oakton, although as I recall, those forms would not be processed until some time in October. So, you may have to provide transportation for the first month or so.

What's to stop the sister from jumping on the bus with her brother? That's what my daughter is going to do, regardless of what the county has to say about it.

unwhine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Whine, whine, whine, it is not all about back to
> Oakton. Fox Mill people are a bunch of whiners.
> Really if Oakton was all that, the rest of your
> classmates would have fought harder to keep you
> there. But as you don't see, they could care
> less. If it is really about AP, then you should
> be happy at Herndon or Madison.

You are a jackass. What exactly do you think the Oakton classmates could have done to keep the redistricted students at Oakton? If you're having trouble with that one, let me help you out. The answer is absolutely nothing.

So Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's to stop the sister from jumping on the bus
> with her brother? That's what my daughter is
> going to do, regardless of what the county has to
> say about it.


Were you advised to turn in a transportation waiver form in for your pupil placed daughter? I have confirmed this with the principal at Oakton and also with the family of my daughter's friend. Even though with pupil placed siblings, transportation waiver forms are needed. Like SBS said, these forms won't be processed until around Oct.

Thoreau Middle School
2505 Cedar Ln., Vienna, VA 22180
703-846-8000





School Safety Report Card
School Year Serious Incidents Fights Firearm Violations Other Weapons

2006-07 4 1 0 1
2005-06 1 4 0 1
2004-05 4 1 0 1






Carson Middle School
13618 McLearen Rd., Herndon, VA 20171
703-925-3600





School Safety Report Card
School Year Serious Incidents Fights Firearm Violations Other Weapons

2006-07 2 1 0 2
2005-06 6 1 0 1
2004-05 7 6 0 0



Hughes Middle School
11401 Ridge Heights Rd., Reston, VA 20191
703-715-3600





School Safety Report Card
School Year Serious Incidents Fights Firearm Violations Other Weapons

2006-07 9 22 0 0
2005-06 9 9 0 5
2004-05 10 16 0 2






It appears as though the 9th graders who will be attending South lakes this fall from Carson and Thoreau may want to brush up on their self defense skills, as the Hughes students seem to be a little more aggressive.

There may be some who request PP to
> Oakton, but were given Herndon instead, which is
> not a good option for most in FM. If they
> rejected the Herndon offer I do not consider them
> changing their mind if they decided on SL versus
> Herndon. The goal was to go back to their
> original home school.

SBS Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
> You are a jackass. What exactly do you think the
> Oakton classmates could have done to keep the
> redistricted students at Oakton? If you're having
> trouble with that one, let me help you out. The
> answer is absolutely nothing.

Yo Ho Jackass Dude, how about you ask the Crossfield kids how they could have helped you. Their silence, is your answer. They are plum happy they don't have to worry with all this even though some of them are alot closer to South Lakes.

and why is Herndon not a good option? Is it because you consider it a tad too much like South Lakes?

sosad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yo Ho Jackass Dude, how about you ask the
> Crossfield kids how they could have helped you.
> Their silence, is your answer. They are plum
> happy they don't have to worry with all this even
> though some of them are alot closer to South
> Lakes.
>

That is absolutely true, but what's your point?

> and why is Herndon not a good option? Is it
> because you consider it a tad too much like South
> Lakes?

Herndon and Madison were both mentioned. Even though Herndon is closer as the crow flies, the comnute for parents from Fox Mill to Herndon HS sucks. The traffic is much worse than the drive to Oakton, plus it is in the opposite direction from work for most of them. Madison, officially at least, did not have the capacity to accept too many pupil-placed students.

Schrodinger's Cat - I do not advocate insulating oneself from the lower elements of Fairfax, so to speak, although at some level most of us plead guilty to wanting to live in reasonably nice neighborhoods, with low crime and a generalized deep concern for education.

The problem is with the social programs and the way they have been designed and structured - although I do concede we do need safety nets for people in a civilized society.

We made a huge mistake in the 70's in parceling out social benefits to recipients without putting in place appropriate incentives for behavior. This isn't a moral, or right wing point of view. I think the right utterly fails in its burden of persuasion by casting their points as moral ones - they are thus intolerant if not more so than the left can be. What this is all about is strategies that simply work for everyone - that's it - what works and what does not. And our social programs have been a disaster, because above all else they have, intended or not, incentivized recipients to marginalize men and make them far less likely to an integral part of the family. We took populations victimized by racism and lack of opportunity and at the worst time possible, incentivized them to rely on meager government benefits and unresponsive institutions without any nod to proven, productive strategies to get ahead in life. This of course has now caused inter-generational dysfunction of the highest order, with a bunch of young men and women and elements of communities with little idea of how to set goals, defer gratification, and focus on being responsible. And just moving these folks to a better neighborhood doesn't seem to help - the behavior appears to travel with the recipients (there are some great exceptions, and these folks ought to be applauded), and so the question is not whether one wants to insulate themselves from poor people (although many cast it that way), but rather whether one wants to insulate themselves from folks that empirically - or so it now seems - make lots of bad decisions that harm not only themselves, but - to my point, others around them. (This having been said, Reston is light years and light years from a Bed Stuy or the West Side of Chicago, so I want to avoid overstatement).

And it is unfair to lay all of this on the schools. Very much so. But the schools are in a bind, because they like to pretend that these problems do not exist, likely because they are highly correlated with certain identifiable groups and cultures. So in the end the schools take on a patina of all knowing and all fixing, because that serves their interest to get more money and resources, and more money and even more resources. But while money (properly spent) can be helpful, it doesn't seem ever to put much of a dent in the problem. And only a brave few are going to remark openly that we are dealing with challenging populations that the schools have little capacity to fix. And even worse, the cultural infirmities are far worse than the genetic ones and appear more intractable than ever. If we were to start from that honest proposition, and make the mission of the schools simply to enhance each student's own cognitive achievement - which means that the schools must be attentive to market demands for better students as well - as opposed to instituting fads or fixes to close gaps in group or racial performance that are not going to be closed any time soon - it may take decades if ever - then people may be far more inclined to be tolerant of assuming some of the burdens you cite.

Floris Parent-

It is actually a lot worse than you say. Those numbers are "cooked" and the reality is much worse. I went to LH and SL and I can tell you LH is a much worse and tougher enviroment. At least once you get through 10th grade at SL most of the troubled kids start to drop out. That said, I would still choose LH and SL over Oakton or any other Preppy school.

Floris parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hughes Middle School
> 11401 Ridge Heights Rd., Reston, VA 20191
> 703-715-3600
>
>
>
>
>
> School Safety Report Card
> School Year Serious Incidents Fights Firearm
> Violations Other Weapons
>
> 2006-07 9 22 0 0
> 2005-06 9 9 0 5
> 2004-05 10 16 0 2
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It appears as though the 9th graders who will be
> attending South lakes this fall from Carson and
> Thoreau may want to brush up on their self defense
> skills, as the Hughes students seem to be a little
> more aggressive.




B-E agressive

I just graduated hughes and am going to SL
but just to warn u at being a student their this year the
fights and all that other stuff has decreased A LOT!

**BUT** dont expect most of us to stand there and be treated like were not as good enough as ur kids and drama will be expected this year like all the other schools freshmen.

Schrodinger's Cat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Why is supporting the ownership rights of apartment owners snobbish? It is a question of trusting the marketplace, not the government, and has nothing to do with snobbery. Why must you always attack and name-call anyone with whom you disagree? Are your ideas so limpid that they can't stand on their own?< <

Because your condescension and derision for people who weren't as lucky as you in your choice of parents permeates most, if not all, of your postings.

The shoe fits.

sosad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There may be some who request PP to
> > Oakton, but were given Herndon instead, which is
>
> > not a good option for most in FM. If they
> > rejected the Herndon offer I do not consider
> them
> > changing their mind if they decided on SL versus
>
> > Herndon. The goal was to go back to their
> > original home school.
>
> SBS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >
> > You are a jackass. What exactly do you think
> the
> > Oakton classmates could have done to keep the
> > redistricted students at Oakton? If you're
> having
> > trouble with that one, let me help you out.
> The
> > answer is absolutely nothing.
>
> Yo Ho Jackass Dude, how about you ask the
> Crossfield kids how they could have helped you.
> Their silence, is your answer. They are plum
> happy they don't have to worry with all this even
> though some of them are alot closer to South
> Lakes.
>
> and why is Herndon not a good option? Is it
> because you consider it a tad too much like South
> Lakes?


Herndon is not a good option because it is in the opposite direction of where most parents need to be in the morning. It would take me 20 minutes to get my child to Herndon in the morning and then 20 minutes back--and then I can leave for work. (Obviously shorter traveling time in the afternoon--but then I'd have to leave work in the middle of the work day and drive out to Herndon for pick up) Because there is no transportation provided by FCPS, I would have to do the driving myself each way. On top of that, Herndon does not offer as much math as Oakton.
And, for the next 3 years my child can catch the Oakton bus with his sibling and other grandfathered students.
Even though you hoped my reasons were ugly, they are not--they are just practical.

curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's about the math Wrote:
> IB math HL only covers half of the
> > AP Calc BC curriculum--and IB does not cover
> > Multivariable Calc and Linear Alg at all. Why
> > would a strong math student want to lose so
> much
> > math? The good thing for SL is that they do
> have
> > some terrific math teachers. If they taught
> more
> > math we'd be going there.
>
> I googled to find a syllabus for HL math, out of
> curiosity. I wish SL's had this posted, but
> clearly HL math does cover multi-variable and
> linear. check this out:
> http://www.amersol.edu.pe/hs/math/curriculum/highe
> rlevel.asp


Sorry, it's not the same thing. Even Bruce Butler and the math teachers at SL will tell you that.

Questioner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Sorry, it's not the same thing. Even Bruce Butler
> and the math teachers at SL will tell you that.

I have heard quite differently from other IB schools and a math professor at Pittsburgh who evaluated AP math courses and IB when their district was getting IB. HL math does cover what the syllabus attached in the other link states; I can at least say for certain that it does cover all of AP calc BC, and matrix. I am a little unclear on how much linear algebra is covered.

meant multivariable, not matrix..

It doesn't matter because the judge is going rule in favor of the FairfaxCAPS lawsuit and the SB want be able to redistrict!

Oakie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It doesn't matter because the judge is going rule
> in favor of the FairfaxCAPS lawsuit and the SB
> want be able to redistrict!


Welcome to 2 days ago. And, no, he didn't.

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It doesn't matter because the judge is going
> rule
> > in favor of the FairfaxCAPS lawsuit and the SB
> > want be able to redistrict!
>
>
> Welcome to 2 days ago. And, no, he didn't.


Can you say "appeal"

You shouldn't presume to know anything about my shoe size, parents or background, TM, but since your only strategy is name-calling, you are destined to repeat the same flawed pattern. Perhaps if you did know about my background, you wouldn't make such a callous, and in my case, totally insensitive post. Besides, one can have absolute shits for parents and still come out ok, and vice-versa.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Schrodinger's Cat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Why is supporting the ownership rights of
> apartment owners snobbish? It is a question of
> trusting the marketplace, not the government, and
> has nothing to do with snobbery. Why must you
> always attack and name-call anyone with whom you
> disagree? Are your ideas so limpid that they
> can't stand on their own?< <
>
> Because your condescension and derision for people
> who weren't as lucky as you in your choice of
> parents permeates most, if not all, of your
> postings.
>
> The shoe fits.

oakton bound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Can you say "appeal"

That decision has yet to be made,

As a participant on this board for some months now and as I have read virtually all of the posts, I would like to offer the following:

1. There is no way CAPS has the money to file an appeal. This lawsuit does not have a prayer.

2. Some IB schools have AP courses. In our school, a group of parents (I think they ask for 20 kids) requested an AP math course and we got it. It is not that difficult to do. If there is a group at SLHS that wants a high level AP math class they should be able to get it.

3. I am tired of Quantum's long boring posts. I think he/she likes to hear themselves talk.

My kid didn't get a car when she attended Madison. She did get a good education and college credit because of the AP courses she took. My neighbor's kid doesn't have a car either, nor will he get to go to Madison. But thank heavens the F &RM and ESOL percentage will go down at SL. That is a comforting concept. Redistrict to make the numbers look good!

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen,
> I understand where you are coming from--people
> should pay to live where they can afford. Totally
> get that. An interesting question is, what would
> happen if the county had no affordable housing?
>
> I don't think it is a simple relationship between
> affordable housing and the types of people and
> situations that put them there and what effect it
> has on society. Some people simply need
> help--they cannot function on their own. Some are
> taught to be dependent on welfare. That's clearly
> bad. But what about the people that need some
> temporary help, who might be on the street because
> of a job loss, medical bills,etc? Or who are
> starting a new life and need some help?
>
> The Atlantic Monthly article suggests that
> spreading out affordable housing can also spread
> crime. But, they are looking at one segment of
> the population, as Quantum would call, the
> disenfranchised.
>
> I don't think the affordable housing in Reston is
> full of one type or another, it's a mix. That's
> also why South Lakes is not nearly as bad as
> people think. In fact, your kids might actually
> learn something by getting to know kids of
> different backgrounds. What a concept! I know my
> kids at least understand that not everyone can get
> a car when they are 16, or get an iPod, that money
> is finite and something to work for and be
> appreciated. I wonder if the Oakton kids can say
> the same.

Floris parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thoreau Middle School
> 2505 Cedar Ln., Vienna, VA 22180
> 703-846-8000
>
>
>
>
>
> School Safety Report Card
> School Year Serious Incidents Fights Firearm
> Violations Other Weapons
>
> 2006-07 4 1 0 1
> 2005-06 1 4 0 1
> 2004-05 4 1 0 1
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Carson Middle School
> 13618 McLearen Rd., Herndon, VA 20171
> 703-925-3600
>
>
>
>
>
> School Safety Report Card
> School Year Serious Incidents Fights Firearm
> Violations Other Weapons
>
> 2006-07 2 1 0 2
> 2005-06 6 1 0 1
> 2004-05 7 6 0 0
>
>
>
> Hughes Middle School
> 11401 Ridge Heights Rd., Reston, VA 20191
> 703-715-3600
>
>
>
>
>
> School Safety Report Card
> School Year Serious Incidents Fights Firearm
> Violations Other Weapons
>
> 2006-07 9 22 0 0
> 2005-06 9 9 0 5
> 2004-05 10 16 0 2
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It appears as though the 9th graders who will be
> attending South lakes this fall from Carson and
> Thoreau may want to brush up on their self defense
> skills, as the Hughes students seem to be a little
> more aggressive.


This exercise of looking at the school safety data is a complete waste of time. Principals don't honestly report everything that goes on in their schools-get serious. And nobody audits the numbers. I assure you, if somebody would take the time to file a FOIA request on incidents as recorded by the SROs or safety officers within a school-they would not be anywhere near what the admins report.

There was an article in the Post 2 years back that followed the Safety officer of Oakton around for a week. At the end of the article, the guy was quoted as saying that it was a miracle that a whole week went by without a fight-yet if you look at the report card-Oakton reported like 10 fights in a school year-huh? Something does not make sense here.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Reston has more public housing than
> surrounding communities . . .< <
>
> Actually Herndon has more public housing units
> than Reston. The Route 1 corridor has more than
> either.
>
> The distribution of public housing in Fairfax is
> really a function of when the Feds funded or
> guarantee public housing projects and when a
> particular geographic area was developing. All of
> the public housing in Fairfax is of the same
> vintage.
>
> > > If North Reston were joined with South Reston
> at South Lakes too, we wouldn't be having this
> discussion. South Lakes would still have a higher
> FRL than surrounding schools, but the level would
> be bearable.< <
>
> If Armstrong and Aldrin had been added to SL, as
> proposed in option 4, SL would still have >20% FRM
> which according to a chart posted about 200 pages
> ago would have had no impact on academic
> achievement for FRL kids at SL. In order for that
> to happen FRM would have to fall below 15% and no
> option achieved that reduction.
>
> If academic achievement of FRM is to be improved
> programs of Stuart and Richmond are going to be
> have to be implemented. Neither Gibson nor butler
> show interest in such action so we should have no
> reason to expect an improvemetn in FRM or ESL
> achievement.
>
> It looks as if the RD was solely for cosmetic
> purposes, i.e., to get kids into the school to
> make it look better not to actually improve the
> school for FRM and ESL kids. Too bad, they need
> the help.


You still haven't told us where in Herndon the public housing is? Alabama Avenue is a long street and is mainly single family homes. Please identify this housing by complex names.

Schrodinger's Cat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Shrodingers Cat Wrote:
> > > > Additionally, and you should be happy to
> hear,
> > the marketplace has dictated that many Section
> 8
> > vouchers were not renewed, which is a good
> thing
> > for Reston and it's property owners, including
> > apartment owners.< <
> >
> > I'm sure snobs like you believe that but Mr.
> Simon
> > doesn't.
> >
>
> Why is supporting the ownership rights of
> apartment owners snobbish? It is a question of
> trusting the marketplace, not the government, and
> has nothing to do with snobbery. Why must you
> always attack and name-call anyone with whom you
> disagree? Are your ideas so limpid that they
> can't stand on their own?

Thank you for taking him to task for his hateful ways. Shame on you Thomas M. No one even pays you any never mind on this forum anymore. Why don't you go find somewhere else to play?

OakARKS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well the case went as we expected. It's a shame
> but must keep our heads up.
>
> It's time for the second meeting.
>
> We had five Mom's respond so this should be a big
> meeting. Mary said she is bringing Ice cream and
> apple pies that she is goping to make. I'm going
> to bring a bunch of different Ben & Gerry's Ice
> cream. I love that ice cream. Cookie dough is my
> favorite.
>
> The tea idea is still good. We'll have that as
> well. We need to gets some single guys involved
> so if your a single guy in Oakton please show up.
>
> We'll discuss the new Oakton mascots. Last time
> the name Pathers was a good idea. We need to
> start our fund raising and get our paypal account
> ready. I'm going to set that up and I'll keep
> track of all of the donations.
>
> We need some place that we can all sit down
> comfortably and hopefully not have to walk very
> far from our cars. I get a little winded walking
> far.
>
> Okay so post your idea : ))

Sounds like lots of fun and productive too. How about the horsefly for a mascot?
You could dump a load of horse *&^% in front of Oakton and wait for plenty of little mascots to show up.

unwhine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's about the math Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > I'm sorry, I don't believe there are "MANY"
> > students who had their pupil placement forms
> > approved and then changed their minds and
> decided
> > to go to SL. (There may be some who request PP
> to
> > Oakton, but were given Herndon instead, which
> is
> > not a good option for most in FM. If they
> > rejected the Herndon offer I do not consider
> them
> > changing their mind if they decided on SL
> versus
> > Herndon. The goal was to go back to their
> > original home school.
> >
> > The SB has offered the families in FM and FL
> > nothing. We lost Oakton, we lost AP. Even if
> > they had put in just an AP math curriculum at
> SL
> > they wouldn't have had so many people leave or
> > want to leave. IB math HL only covers half of
> the
> > AP Calc BC curriculum--and IB does not cover
> > Multivariable Calc and Linear Alg at all. Why
> > would a strong math student want to lose so
> much
> > math? The good thing for SL is that they do
> have
> > some terrific math teachers. If they taught
> more
> > math we'd be going there.
>
>
> Whine, whine, whine, it is not all about back to
> Oakton. Fox Mill people are a bunch of whiners.
> Really if Oakton was all that, the rest of your
> classmates would have fought harder to keep you
> there. But as you don't see, they could care
> less. If it is really about AP, then you should
> be happy at Herndon or Madison.


You have got to be kidding? They do not want to go to Herndon any more than they wanted South Lakes they just had the anti IB argument at South Lakes. They would have hurled the same insults at Herndon as they did at South Lakes given the chance.

answer the question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > You still haven't told us where in Herndon the public housing is?< <

Get in your car and drive on Alabama west of Elden Street. You'll find it.

good job Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Thank you for taking him to task for his hateful ways.< <

That's rich. The only hate here is Ms. Kitty's and others contempt for the poor and unfortunate. Do you share it? If not, why defend her pervasive disdain for people less fortunate than herself.

> >No one even pays you any never mind on this forum anymore.< <

That's why you're postng, right?

Not to get in a pissing match with the big, bad, TM. It will never end!!!!!!!!!!! He always, and I mean always, has to have the last word.

Now that the lawsuit failed, will the recall petition for Stu Gibson get alive? That has more of a chance to succeed and recalling Stu will send a strong message to the SB that they are not above the law.

seriously..................have you not figured out that the SB in fact can and does get away with anything they want?


where is the recall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now that the lawsuit failed, will the recall
> petition for Stu Gibson get alive? That has more
> of a chance to succeed and recalling Stu will send
> a strong message to the SB that they are not above
> the law.

The judge upholding the redistricting makes any recall of board members a mute point. Nobody is going to sign a recall petition now. There would be no point, everybody in the Reston District loves him now.

The best thing to do is to make some money off the whole redistricting uproar by joining the FairfaxCAPS admin staff. Rumor has it they raised close to $180,000. They claim $130,000 paid to the lawyer and they will not disclose a balance sheet of how the donations were spent.

>
> The SB has offered the families in FM and FL
> nothing. We lost Oakton, we lost AP. Even if
> they had put in just an AP math curriculum at SL
> they wouldn't have had so many people leave or
> want to leave. IB math HL only covers half of the
> AP Calc BC curriculum--and IB does not cover
> Multivariable Calc and Linear Alg at all. Why
> would a strong math student want to lose so much
> math? The good thing for SL is that they do have
> some terrific math teachers. If they taught more
> math we'd be going there.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to why staff and school board refused to offer these family anything? Was it just arrogance, something like "we don't have to offer you anything because we are forcing you to go there, like it or not". Or was it ignorance, they had no clue what people wanted?

According to the today's Post, at least 100 students have pupil placed out because of curriculum (80) and another 20 because of their older siblings. They don't even know how many have opted for private schools and how many have moved. That should up the number to 120 or 130 who will not be attending South Lakes. They will be VERY lucky to get 80 to 100 new students, or 3 extra classes.

Again, if the staff and school board had offered something, anything, an AP program, or promise of advanced math classes, or a computer science/engineering program, a part time magnet, it could have made a HUGE difference. Many of the 100+ who opted out might have chosen to give South Lakes a try. But they school board offered nothing, no incentive to go to South Lakes. Too late now,they offended too many parents for them to even think about trying South Lakes.

final tally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The final tally from RD:
>
> Winners : School Board Politicians like Stu Gibson
> in furthering thier political careers
> Losers: Students of Fox Mill , MI and Floris who
> now have a failing High School
> Losers: Ffx County taxpayers who will bear the
> cost of this bussing

I agree, except for the politicians. How did they benefit from angering so many people? How do they benefit from so much bad PR?

Taxpayers also have to absorb the cost of the redistricting.

Where have you been OakARKS for the past several weeks? Composing your blog?


see the Mascot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OakARKS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well the case went as we expected. It's a
> shame
> > but must keep our heads up.
> >
> > It's time for the second meeting.
> >
> > We had five Mom's respond so this should be a
> big
> > meeting. Mary said she is bringing Ice cream
> and
> > apple pies that she is goping to make. I'm
> going
> > to bring a bunch of different Ben & Gerry's Ice
> > cream. I love that ice cream. Cookie dough is
> my
> > favorite.
> >
> > The tea idea is still good. We'll have that as
> > well. We need to gets some single guys
> involved
> > so if your a single guy in Oakton please show
> up.
> >
> > We'll discuss the new Oakton mascots. Last
> time
> > the name Pathers was a good idea. We need to
> > start our fund raising and get our paypal
> account
> > ready. I'm going to set that up and I'll keep
> > track of all of the donations.
> >
> > We need some place that we can all sit down
> > comfortably and hopefully not have to walk very
> > far from our cars. I get a little winded
> walking
> > far.
> >
> > Okay so post your idea : ))
>
> Sounds like lots of fun and productive too. How
> about the horsefly for a mascot?
> You could dump a load of horse *&^% in front of
> Oakton and wait for plenty of little mascots to
> show up.

some general comments Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a participant on this board for some months now
> and as I have read virtually all of the posts, I
> would like to offer the following:
>
> 1. There is no way CAPS has the money to file an
> appeal. This lawsuit does not have a prayer.
>
> 2. Some IB schools have AP courses. In our
> school, a group of parents (I think they ask for
> 20 kids) requested an AP math course and we got
> it. It is not that difficult to do. If there is
> a group at SLHS that wants a high level AP math
> class they should be able to get it.
>
> 3. I am tired of Quantum's long boring posts. I
> think he/she likes to hear themselves talk.

Got it. Quantum is over your head. The rest of us quite enjoy his posts. We always learn something when he posts.

During the redistricting, people asked, begged, South Lakes to say they would offer some AP classes, particularly math. The response was an offer to provide AP Human Geography, a course as close to IB as is possible, a course that is not recognized by colleges, including UVA. It's a joke course. No AP math will be offered at South Lakes.

Do you think the majority of the Board members care....they are the ones who reduce the time teacher assistants can help in the classroom, add more students to the teacher load, and then have the audicity to whine about not getting enough of our tax dollars so they can be housed in another administrative building.

Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> final tally Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The final tally from RD:
> >
> > Winners : School Board Politicians like Stu
> Gibson
> > in furthering thier political careers
> > Losers: Students of Fox Mill , MI and Floris
> who
> > now have a failing High School
> > Losers: Ffx County taxpayers who will bear the
> > cost of this bussing
>
> I agree, except for the politicians. How did they
> benefit from angering so many people? How do they
> benefit from so much bad PR?
>
> Taxpayers also have to absorb the cost of the
> redistricting.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen,
> I understand where you are coming from--people
> should pay to live where they can afford. Totally
> get that. An interesting question is, what would
> happen if the county had no affordable housing?

What does that mean? Who defines "affordable"? If Reston didn't provide our money for people to live where they can't afford, they would do what everyone else does and move further out until they can find what they can afford. I know lots of workers in Vienna and Merrifield who live in Manassas, Occoquan, and Sterling because that's where they can afford to live. FC police and fireman often live as far out as Winchester and Front Royal. I have no doubt that some of the workers would qualify to live in Reston, in low income housing, but why should we pay for that?

>
> The Atlantic Monthly article suggests that
> spreading out affordable housing can also spread
> crime. But, they are looking at one segment of
> the population, as Quantum would call, the
> disenfranchised.

That's nice. What an idea, spread crime all across the county.
>
> I don't think the affordable housing in Reston is
> full of one type or another, it's a mix. That's
> also why South Lakes is not nearly as bad as
> people think. In fact, your kids might actually
> learn something by getting to know kids of
> different backgrounds. What a concept! I know my
> kids at least understand that not everyone can get
> a car when they are 16, or get an iPod, that money
> is finite and something to work for and be
> appreciated. I wonder if the Oakton kids can say
> the same.

Yeah, ALL the kids I know in Vienna and Oakton have jobs in the summer. They have to earn their car money, IPODs, etc. Most of those kids also work during the school year, as did my children. Since their parents have strong work ethics, so do their children. Children learn by example. I don't think that living with poor people will teach them those work and study ethics, but perhaps you know such children who have learned by the examples set by those in high crime areas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2008 11:34PM by Neen.

Madison Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My kid didn't get a car when she attended Madison.
> She did get a good education and college credit
> because of the AP courses she took. My neighbor's
> kid doesn't have a car either, nor will he get to
> go to Madison. But thank heavens the F &RM and
> ESOL percentage will go down at SL. That is a
> comforting concept. Redistrict to make the
> numbers look good!

Yes. What a shame they couldn't improve the education at South Lakes for those students who aren't doing well. Those students will continue to fail while South Lakes hopes to look marginally better by papering over the problems with new students from other districts. But it won't work, too many students are opting out.

chantilly mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> seriously..................have you not figured
> out that the SB in fact can and does get away with
> anything they want?

And why wouldn't they? They're democrats so their re election is guaranteed and they know that the democrat board of supervisors will always support them.

Schrodinger's Cat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You shouldn't presume to know anything about my
> shoe size, parents or background, TM, but since
> your only strategy is name-calling, you are
> destined to repeat the same flawed pattern.
> Perhaps if you did know about my background, you
> wouldn't make such a callous, and in my case,
> totally insensitive post. Besides, one can have
> absolute shits for parents and still come out ok,
> and vice-versa.

And your point would be.................??

What name did Thomas More call you? I missed that.

Oakie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The judge upholding the redistricting makes any
> recall of board members a mute point. Nobody is
> going to sign a recall petition now. There would
> be no point, everybody in the Reston District
> loves him now.
>
> The best thing to do is to make some money off the
> whole redistricting uproar by joining the
> FairfaxCAPS admin staff. Rumor has it they raised
> close to $180,000. They claim $130,000 paid to
> the lawyer and they will not disclose a balance
> sheet of how the donations were spent.

Everyone in Hunter Mill district has always loved Stu Gibson. That's why he can do whatever he wants. He's got the Big D after his name and that's all it takes to get elected in Reston.

If you do manage to get enough signatures for the recall Stu petition, who are you planning to run for his position?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The judge upholding the redistricting makes any
> > recall of board members a mute point. Nobody is
> > going to sign a recall petition now. There
> would
> > be no point, everybody in the Reston District
> > loves him now.
> >
> > The best thing to do is to make some money off
> the
> > whole redistricting uproar by joining the
> > FairfaxCAPS admin staff. Rumor has it they
> raised
> > close to $180,000. They claim $130,000 paid to
> > the lawyer and they will not disclose a balance
> > sheet of how the donations were spent.
>
> Everyone in Hunter Mill district has always loved
> Stu Gibson. That's why he can do whatever he
> wants. He's got the Big D after his name and
> that's all it takes to get elected in Reston.


I'm embarrassed to admit that I voted for Stu. As a lifetime yellow dog Democrat, I did it. I really didn't think he would support such a ridiculous and unfair RD plan. I also voted for Connolly. But, NEVER again. I will vote for a book banning, bible thumping Republican before I vote for those tyrants again. I think a key to getting rid of Stu is to reach out to the Hispanic community in Reston. Put up flyer and posters in Spanish: Stu Gibson supports the expensive and elite IB program at South Lakes--at the expense of the general education program. If the IB program doesn't benefit your children vote for HIS OPPONENT.

A lifelong Dem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oakie Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The judge upholding the redistricting makes
> any
> > > recall of board members a mute point. Nobody
> is
> > > going to sign a recall petition now. There
> > would
> > > be no point, everybody in the Reston District
> > > loves him now.
> > >
> > > The best thing to do is to make some money
> off
> > the
> > > whole redistricting uproar by joining the
> > > FairfaxCAPS admin staff. Rumor has it they
> > raised
> > > close to $180,000. They claim $130,000 paid
> to
> > > the lawyer and they will not disclose a
> balance
> > > sheet of how the donations were spent.
> >
> > Everyone in Hunter Mill district has always
> loved
> > Stu Gibson. That's why he can do whatever he
> > wants. He's got the Big D after his name and
> > that's all it takes to get elected in Reston.
>
>
> I'm embarrassed to admit that I voted for Stu. As
> a lifetime yellow dog Democrat, I did it. I
> really didn't think he would support such a
> ridiculous and unfair RD plan. I also voted for
> Connolly. But, NEVER again. I will vote for a
> book banning, bible thumping Republican before I
> vote for those tyrants again. I think a key to
> getting rid of Stu is to reach out to the Hispanic
> community in Reston. Put up flyer and posters in
> Spanish: Stu Gibson supports the expensive and
> elite IB program at South Lakes--at the expense of
> the general education program. If the IB program
> doesn't benefit your children vote for HIS
> OPPONENT.


Sorry to hear about your mistake. I'm so tired of these bozos that I've decided not to vote for another school bond nor will I return any of those "are you a military family" forms again, even though I'm part of a military family. My "elected" school board member still has not responded to any of my emails, so I did not send back in the census report. The board appears not to listen to us when we speak at public hearings so why should I be included in this accounting???

FRED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you do manage to get enough signatures for the
> recall Stu petition, who are you planning to run
> for his position?

THAT's an important question. Not too many people lining up to run for that office. A democrat, looking for a stepping stone to higher office, might take the job for a couple of years.

A lifelong Dem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.
> I'm embarrassed to admit that I voted for Stu. As
> a lifetime yellow dog Democrat, I did it. I
> really didn't think he would support such a
> ridiculous and unfair RD plan. I also voted for
> Connolly. But, NEVER again. I will vote for a
> book banning, bible thumping Republican before I
> vote for those tyrants again. I think a key to
> getting rid of Stu is to reach out to the Hispanic
> community in Reston. Put up flyer and posters in
> Spanish: Stu Gibson supports the expensive and
> elite IB program at South Lakes--at the expense of
> the general education program. If the IB program
> doesn't benefit your children vote for HIS
> OPPONENT.

Unfortunately Reston is filled with democrats like you were. 75% of them have no kids in school and couldn't care less who is elected to the school board. They will simply vote for whoever the democrats tell them to vote for. If Stu runs again, he will be re elected again. There aren't enough Hispanic voters in Hunter Mill to change that. There are more Asians, and Asians vote. They don't like IB, so you would have a better chance at defeating Stu by appealing to them. Even with that, it would be very difficult with so many yellow dog democrats in Reston.

The way Gibson acted during the RD, anyone would be better than Gibson. Gibson represents only is reston community. He refused to even take a phone call or meet with non reston residents during the entire 8 month RD process, citing time issues. All the while he had time meeting with SL PTSA. I am voting republican this election. If Connoley supports Gibson, as he does, he is not getting my vote also

FRED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you do manage to get enough signatures for the
> recall Stu petition, who are you planning to run
> for his position?

Is the Judge Finch decision and each brief available on-line?

How pathetic that Neen feels compelled to be tm's hired gun. What a pairing - a couple meant for each other. They should hook up - if they haven't already. Isn't is romantic!!!

I'd chalk it up to insecurity, immaturity, boredom, and spite.

LOL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > How pathetic that Neen feels compelled to be tm's hired gun. What a pairing - a couple meant for each other.< <

Take heed of the 7/30/'08, 7:17 pm post above. You got next?

I attended the meeting.

What the School Board did is they got together with all the Reston residents and said "How we can piss off everybody in Oakton, Foxmill and places that border Reston?"

One idea that was suggested was to redistrict, another was to drive school buses up and down their streets blowing horns and the third was to encourage students to TP their houses."

The board ruled out the last two so they had do redistricting to piss off people.
All of this stuff about the the board using facts, figures, and populations stats is complete BS. None of that ever happened.

I was there. Don't forget that they also suggested torching Oakton and Westfield so that 'desirable' kids would have to go to SL. Madison Island was a red herring. Loffy, were you wearing Lily Pulitzer?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Unfortunately Reston is filled with democrats like
> you were. 75% of them have no kids in school and
> couldn't care less who is elected to the school
> board. They will simply vote for whoever the
> democrats tell them to vote for. If Stu runs
> again, he will be re elected again. There aren't
> enough Hispanic voters in Hunter Mill to change
> that. There are more Asians, and Asians vote.
> They don't like IB, so you would have a better
> chance at defeating Stu by appealing to them.

Both Marshall and Robinson have significantly higher percentages of Asian-American students than, say, Madison - and they are well-represented in the ranks of the IB and IB diploma students at both schools. I'm not sure that the fact that Floris families prefer Westfield over South Lakes gives you a factual basis for the broad assertion that "Asians * * * don't like IB."

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>How many young families of modest means have
> moved into McLean at any time in the last 30
> years?<<<
>
> You might be surprised. Asians are now occupying
> the smaller houses in McLean and Vienna. They are
> also renting apartments in McLean. Why? The
> schools. Asians move into neighborhoods with good
> schools. They will live in small house, or an
> apartment, if that's what they have to do to get
> into Langley school district. I know several Asian
> families who own homes in Maryland but rent
> apartments in McLean so that their kids go to
> Longfellow GT and (they hope) to TJ.



Why have you not spoken up about this abuse?

I don't get it. Why would Asians move to Vienna? Neen says that Madison is Mediocre and if she says it, it must be so.

Is this fair? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>How many young families of modest means have
> > moved into McLean at any time in the last 30
> > years?<<<
> >
> > You might be surprised. Asians are now
> occupying
> > the smaller houses in McLean and Vienna. They
> are
> > also renting apartments in McLean. Why? The
> > schools. Asians move into neighborhoods with
> good
> > schools. They will live in small house, or an
> > apartment, if that's what they have to do to
> get
> > into Langley school district. I know several
> Asian
> > families who own homes in Maryland but rent
> > apartments in McLean so that their kids go to
> > Longfellow GT and (they hope) to TJ.
>
>
>
> Why have you not spoken up about this abuse?

The yellow dog democrat is right. Butler and IB parents care only about IB kids at SL. The parents of IB diploma kids run SL and only care about the IB program. "Regular" kids who can't handle IB classes can take general education classes at SL. However, there aren't enough "IB" students without the "high average" kids to fill up the IB/preIB classes. General education classes are ignored at SL. Good students who are not IB material are thrown in to honors and IB classes. IB parents don't care one bit as long as their kids are in advanced classes. No effort is made to give general ed kids a decent education.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, ALL the kids I know in Vienna and Oakton
> have jobs in the summer. They have to earn their
> car money, IPODs, etc. Most of those kids also
> work during the school year, as did my children.
> Since their parents have strong work ethics, so do
> their children. Children learn by example. I
> don't think that living with poor people will
> teach them those work and study ethics, but
> perhaps you know such children who have learned by
> the examples set by those in high crime areas.


Neen you are so full of yourself us poor people have to work hard to get
out of affordable housing, And you cant even deny that you arent classist cause you are!

"Poor People" have to work HARDER to get what they want not all poor people that advantage of affordable housing.

And poor kids have to study harder to get into college and work harder and longer to make enough money to help them pay for college.You just label everyone you think that if your poor your going to stay that way and do drugs and be in gangs.You ignore the ones who are different.

Neen - your response intuits that you know that "long and boring posts" statements equate to "I cannot come up with anything persuasive in response".

Reminds me of a high school English class where half students complained about a stunning masterpiece i.e., Faulkner's Light in August, as boring. Of course it is boring to a crowd that finds US magazine intellectually scintillating.

This, of course, is the fun with message boards. One can receive responses from folks outside of the normal course of discourse.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reminds me of a high school English class where
> half students complained about a stunning
> masterpiece i.e., Faulkner's Light in August, as
> boring. Of course it is boring to a crowd that
> finds US magazine intellectually scintillating.

I'd be more inclined to listen to kids who enjoyed other books and found Light in August 'boring' than to an echo chamber of literary critics who bestow greatness on the basis of what the other critics like.

some classics get dated and weak works by strong authors get a free pass.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Verity - you make often make good points - but
> it would be helpful to refrain from emotionalism -
> such as stating that certain points are
> "insulting" or "offense". Having strident
> positions is not tantamount to insult or offense,
> and certainly merely stating that there is a
> significant preference for the AP program over the
> IB program for the affected population is far from
> "offensive" or "insulting", especially since it
> ignores the distinction fairly made that while IB
> is an excellent program for the right kind of
> kids, it is not the preferred approach for most of
> the transferor population. Put another way,
> merely holding an opinion that one program better
> meets the needs of the population than another is
> reasonable, and thereafter stating it is axiomatic
> that many of the same population (middle to upper
> middle class with deep concern for their children)
> would pupil place in the absence of a meaningful
> AP program is likewise reasonable.
>
> But your last post reveals some insight as to why
> you are defensive. I can see from your post that
> South Lakes parents and supporters in effect do
> feel besieged, because they have been through a
> difficult time. And I find it striking that the
> kind of honest statements you relate only come
> about after strident debate and probing - things
> must have been very challenging at South Lakes.
> Let's assume your statement that only 50% of the
> affected parents care is accurate - my intuition
> is that you are spot on. But wow, that kind of
> parental involvement in in a well off suburb like
> Reston? How depressing. Profoundly depressing.
> And it really confirms my views on the cultural
> problems that exist in certain communities when it
> comes to education. Reston is a well off suburb
> that offers zillions of services and amenities
> that literally is as close to Sweden in America as
> it gets - generally (obviously there are certain
> individuals with life impairments) there's no real
> impediment to parental involvement - other than
> cultural ones. Again, how depressing, and it
> really explains just how badly the school wants,
> and needs, an influx of middle class students with
> a sense of an educational mission appurtenant. My
> view, oft stated, however, is that they won't in a
> non-transitory way obtain these students unless
> they really compete for them - such is the way of
> the world. Like it or not, the 1 to 3 percent opt
> to South Lakes factor in the Franklin Farm survey
> is real (and if the number is even 10 percent, it
> doesn't matter because that kind of statistical
> imbalance is really profound), and South Lakes
> really must compete for them as if they were a
> private school - a high challenge - but one that
> they must embrace. Pity or any appeal to an
> altruistic sense of social justice will not do it
> - it is their kids' education at stake - and don't
> easily expect parents to come along for the ride -
> that 50% factor doesn't scare parents in Oakton,
> etc. as much as it deeply disillusions them.


BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH............

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>They were also concerned that Lindsey and
> Linda’s orientation would reduced girls
> participation rates in sports at SL. These issues
> were brought to Bruce’s attention. He gave Linda
> the job anyway and Lindsey got the ADSA job
> anyway.<<<
>
> Surely you aren't saying that there should be
> discrimination based on sexual orientation, are
> you? That would certainly not be supported by the
> good liberals who run FCPS. How are lesbians to
> get ahead with attitudes like your's? Tsk, tsk,
> Thomas More.


FCPS doesn't employ these types, do they TM?

Hell yes, we don't fags at Oakton

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My kid didn't get a car when she attended
> Madison.
> > She did get a good education and college
> credit
> > because of the AP courses she took. My
> neighbor's
> > kid doesn't have a car either, nor will he get
> to
> > go to Madison. But thank heavens the F &RM and
> > ESOL percentage will go down at SL. That is a
> > comforting concept. Redistrict to make the
> > numbers look good!
>
> Yes. What a shame they couldn't improve the
> education at South Lakes for those students who
> aren't doing well. Those students will continue
> to fail while South Lakes hopes to look marginally
> better by papering over the problems with new
> students from other districts. But it won't work,
> too many students are opting out.


Social Engineering doesn’t work. The principal is right though. Enrollment will rise over the next few years because most of the folks (particularly the disadvantaged) will do what is easiest and go to SL. The net result will be enrollment rises with little gain in test scores or any significant percentage drop in subsidized freebies. So both sides lose.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity - I think you are right - it is simply
> uncontestable - be it band, or sports, or theater,
> that on a comparative basis, it is simply much
> more difficult for schools with a population half
> that of neighboring schools to have programs as
> competitive as the other schools. Most sports (I
> will talk to what I know) profit immensely from
> having great numbers come out, particularly
> because there are so many high school kids that
> don't show star potential in 9th grade that once
> they have the opportunity to work daily in a
> structured environment improve greatly. A close
> friend and coach back home with a state record of
> over 30 championships has always informed me it
> really is simply about numbers, and more numbers.
> I would be surprised if the same phenomena doesn't
> come into play with music and theater. And
> frankly it is a factor in redistricting - not that
> sports, etc, should be paramount - but generally
> speaking it is nice to field competitive teams and
> full bands, and it adds to the school's sense of
> spirit and progress. I think being blunt and open
> about that makes sense.
>
> By the way, the one sport that typically can
> profit from just having one or two superstars is
> basketball - but even there you need depth because
> the zone defenses and ability to slow down the
> game at the high school level can equalize a few
> superior talents. South Lakes, like other high
> schools with great basketball
> talent, has been hurt by the immense popularity
> and corrupting forces of AAU basketball - which
> has lessened the importance of high school ball -
> unfortunate for South Lakes (they lost an All
> American player to one of the AAU driven prep aka
> basketball factory high schools) - which benefits
> in terms of school spirit from having a great
> team. In other words, the Wendell Byrds of the
> world who oozed credibility with kids no longer
> toil at the local high school - they instead now
> curry favor with the shoe company du jour to run
> AAU teams, the ultimate 6 games in two days learn
> how not to play defense or take care of the ball
> experience. This is a loss. I mention this AAU
> stuff because amidst all of the rancor about
> school redistricting the gloss that has been
> rubbed off of high school ball (and it is
> happening to the women, too) is not the fault of
> the schools or the parents or anyone in the
> community - and yet it takes away from an
> experience - especially in the cold of winter -
> that has historically bound communities closer.
> (Witness Herndon's run the last few years, which
> we won't see again for a while). So it is
> something we can all agree on without much
> conflict.


Is everyone taking copious notes?

I state my case Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> quantum Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SL Verity - you make often make good points -
> but
> > it would be helpful to refrain from emotionalism
> -
> > such as stating that certain points are
> > "insulting" or "offense". Having strident
> > positions is not tantamount to insult or
> offense,
> > and certainly merely stating that there is a
> > significant preference for the AP program over
> the
> > IB program for the affected population is far
> from
> > "offensive" or "insulting", especially since it
> > ignores the distinction fairly made that while
> IB
> > is an excellent program for the right kind of
> > kids, it is not the preferred approach for most
> of
> > the transferor population. Put another way,
> > merely holding an opinion that one program
> better
> > meets the needs of the population than another
> is
> > reasonable, and thereafter stating it is
> axiomatic
> > that many of the same population (middle to
> upper
> > middle class with deep concern for their
> children)
> > would pupil place in the absence of a
> meaningful
> > AP program is likewise reasonable.
> >
> > But your last post reveals some insight as to
> why
> > you are defensive. I can see from your post
> that
> > South Lakes parents and supporters in effect do
> > feel besieged, because they have been through a
> > difficult time. And I find it striking that the
> > kind of honest statements you relate only come
> > about after strident debate and probing -
> things
> > must have been very challenging at South Lakes.
>
> > Let's assume your statement that only 50% of
> the
> > affected parents care is accurate - my
> intuition
> > is that you are spot on. But wow, that kind of
> > parental involvement in in a well off suburb
> like
> > Reston? How depressing. Profoundly depressing.
>
> > And it really confirms my views on the cultural
> > problems that exist in certain communities when
> it
> > comes to education. Reston is a well off suburb
> > that offers zillions of services and amenities
> > that literally is as close to Sweden in America
> as
> > it gets - generally (obviously there are
> certain
> > individuals with life impairments) there's no
> real
> > impediment to parental involvement - other than
> > cultural ones. Again, how depressing, and it
> > really explains just how badly the school
> wants,
> > and needs, an influx of middle class students
> with
> > a sense of an educational mission appurtenant.
> My
> > view, oft stated, however, is that they won't in
> a
> > non-transitory way obtain these students unless
> > they really compete for them - such is the way
> of
> > the world. Like it or not, the 1 to 3 percent
> opt
> > to South Lakes factor in the Franklin Farm
> survey
> > is real (and if the number is even 10 percent,
> it
> > doesn't matter because that kind of statistical
> > imbalance is really profound), and South Lakes
> > really must compete for them as if they were a
> > private school - a high challenge - but one
> that
> > they must embrace. Pity or any appeal to an
> > altruistic sense of social justice will not do
> it
> > - it is their kids' education at stake - and
> don't
> > easily expect parents to come along for the ride
> -
> > that 50% factor doesn't scare parents in
> Oakton,
> > etc. as much as it deeply disillusions them.
>
>
> BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH............


> Social Engineering doesn’t work. The principal is right though.
> Enrollment will rise over the next few years because most of the folks
> (particularly the disadvantaged) will do what is easiest and go to SL. The
> net result will be enrollment rises with little gain in test scores or any
> significant percentage drop in subsidized freebies. So both sides lose.


SLPTA and their clones won't make any concessions and parents won't buy the argument that IB is better....it is right for a small cadre of students. Unfortunately, and no matter how involved the "new" parents try to improve the system, IB is here to stay, contrary to what most people want and need. Exodus of the most wanted students will continue....Too bad

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmm...I am impressed by South Lakes most recent
> test scores? Actually very impressed,
> particularly with the SAT results. Why? They
> have a far larger percentage of a group of
> students who across the country simply perform
> poorly relative to other groups on tests like the
> SAT. And there's no reason to doubt that the
> achievement gap is any different (on a relative
> basis) at South Lakes. So what does that mean for
> the test scores? That means if adjusted for
> certain populations, the remainder may (and I
> emphasize may) be doing better (or at least as
> well) as similar populations at Oakton, Madison
> and the like. Again, while some may see a slight
> lag at South Lakes in terms of SAT scores (and
> also SOL's), when viewed through the lens of the
> soon to be affected transferring population, it
> looks like their existing peer groups at South
> Lakes are doing at least as well. Query whether
> political correctness keeps the schools from
> extrapolating and spreading this message - it
> probably does - but it would be a boon to those
> anxious about the school.
>
> The market for school information is efficient
> (witness the sixty some pages of postings here).
> This doesn't mean (obviously) that every piece of
> information is accurate or helpful, but in the
> aggregate there is a tremendous amount of
> information out there on our local schools. (Like
> the equity markets, the issue is more or less what
> wise parents do with that information to obtain
> the best education for their kids, but that is a
> separate topic). This is why I have been a little
> bit skeptical of South Lakes parents here - who,
> without being critical, clearly have a lot of
> self-interest in redistricting - and perhaps
> protest too much - given that if there is positive
> information or data out there - it will reach the
> market. There's too much self interest for it not
> too. But query whether someone has the chutzpah to
> do just what I suggest - analyze the performance
> of the non-troubled achievement gap groups from
> the latest (and I mean the very latest) scores
> relative to other schools. They do seem to
> validate the sentiments of those that assert the
> school is on an upward trend. And it may even
> validate superior performance, even if wrapped in
> a manner unacceptable to many diversiphiles. Any
> takers on this hunch?


God, doesn't Quantum use BIG words??

We all need a dictionary.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen - you bring up a good point about why it is
> that certain minority students in Fairfax do
> poorly compared to their peers in Richmond,
> Newport News, etc. And it really is troubling,
> given the the levels of income for the relevant
> students and their families and the general
> resources of Fairfax's schools far exceed those in
> the Commonwealth's other districts.
>
> And while I don't think it appropriate to let Stu
> Gibson, the FCPS system, or anyone off the hook,
> so to speak, for not reaching the standards found
> elsewhere in the Commonwealth, I surmise, as
> suggested by a Washington Post article two years
> ago about this very same subject, that Fairfax is
> in a unique situation - not an excusable one, but
> somewhat unique. The fact of the matter is that
> the vast majority of Fairfax County students, and
> particularly the large "better half" of that
> majority, really can pass the SOL's more or less
> by osmosis, and they receive no benefit
> educationally from being taught "to the test".
> Parents of GT kids or near GT kids will confirm
> this - the SOL's are a nuisance event - whether
> through educational exposure or reading at the
> home, or through some other culturally infused
> means, these kids are going to pass the SOL's with
> very little effort. And because there are so many
> of them, Fairfax more or less caters to their
> demands and needs (which does support the County
> in its quest for recognition and acclaim), which
> leaves a certain minority population which could
> really benefit from repetitive drilling on SOL
> elements wanting - because teaching to the test is
> clearly what the the schools in Richmond and
> Newport News, etc. (they publicly admit it) do.
> And this is where I think ideology comes into
> play. The mostly liberal crowd in that run the
> schools are understandably uncomfortable about
> segregating kids - meaning teaching many in a
> certain minority group (and we are talking only
> about non-learning disabled kids here) differently
> and pulling them aside to do just that. They
> themselves are worried about being the
> stigmatizers, and stigmatizing the kids at issue.
> But I think the ideology hurts these kids, because
> while the schools with some justification claim
> about the lack of creativity in teaching to the
> test, the SOL's require mastery of a certain level
> of retained knowledge that is essential in today's
> economy, no matter how boring it may be to obtain.
> The SOL's, though far from perfect, do measure
> fundamental educational skills, and the more kids
> that pass them, the better off they will be. My
> vote is to do the uncomfortable thing and get the
> kids the repetitively earned skills they need,
> even if it means treating that population
> differently. I see no other choice, and calling
> Gibson, et. al out on the problem - as long as it
> is done in a constructive way - I think
> appropriate. It won't get better by just looking
> at it, and given Fairfax's resources, it is very
> hard to justify.


I get paid by the comma......

Are Hughes/South Lakes similar to Wakefield HS -- White kids who brave it, and Blacks/Hispanics who are interested in education, get stellar educations; Blacks/Hispanics who have no interest in education seem to be put out on an educational ice floe.

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are Hughes/South Lakes similar to Wakefield HS --
> White kids who brave it, and Blacks/Hispanics who
> are interested in education, get stellar
> educations; Blacks/Hispanics who have no interest
> in education seem to be put out on an educational
> ice floe.


anyone who has no interest in education puts themselves on an ice floe

can't be bothered to take advantage of the educational opportunity or here illegally?

why should we waste our tax dollars? why should either category be clogging up our schools and wasting our resources?

Biting the dust Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> SLPTA and their clones won't make any concessions
> and parents won't buy the argument that IB is
> better....it is right for a small cadre of
> students. Unfortunately, and no matter how
> involved the "new" parents try to improve the
> system, IB is here to stay, contrary to what most
> people want and need. Exodus of the most wanted
> students will continue....Too bad

Given your exodus theory, why do Robinson and Annandale (IB schools) have 2752 and 2383 students, while Falls Church (AP school) has experienced a declining enrollment - 1318 students last year? Shouldn't Annandale students be jumping at the chance to attend next-door Falls Church?

Beware of generalities Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Biting the dust Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > SLPTA and their clones won't make any
> concessions
> > and parents won't buy the argument that IB is
> > better....it is right for a small cadre of
> > students. Unfortunately, and no matter how
> > involved the "new" parents try to improve the
> > system, IB is here to stay, contrary to what
> most
> > people want and need. Exodus of the most
> wanted
> > students will continue....Too bad
>
> Given your exodus theory, why do Robinson and
> Annandale (IB schools) have 2752 and 2383
> students, while Falls Church (AP school) has
> experienced a declining enrollment - 1318 students
> last year? Shouldn't Annandale students be
> jumping at the chance to attend next-door Falls
> Church?

I can only speak for the area I live....and I can say that AP is the preferred choice of the majority of the affected area. That's the exodus I am taking about. The comparisons are not applicable in this case.

General Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The yellow dog democrat is right. Butler and IB
> parents care only about IB kids at SL. The parents
> of IB diploma kids run SL and only care about the
> IB program. "Regular" kids who can't handle IB
> classes can take general education classes at SL.
> However, there aren't enough "IB" students without
> the "high average" kids to fill up the IB/preIB
> classes. General education classes are ignored at
> SL. Good students who are not IB material are
> thrown in to honors and IB classes. IB parents
> don't care one bit as long as their kids are in
> advanced classes. No effort is made to give
> general ed kids a decent education.

All through these posts ignoramuses are claiming that IB courses are only for "elite" students. And out of the other sides of their mouths they say IB courses are not up to snuff with AP. They simply can't make up their minds -- because they simply don't know any of the curricula.

Are YOU saying that IB is too rigorous for general ed kids? Are you saying that IB skims the best kids off the top and leaves gen ed with remedial students? And that this doesn't happen at AP schools? Are you saying your "ordinary" kid will suffer in the slums of gen ed or be lost in the wilderness of advanced classes, no inbetween? Are you saying that gen ed classes are ignored, and only at SLHS? What's your proof for any or all of this???

You sound very fearful of things you don't know. And have very little faith in your own child.

If you are arguing against IB, here is the logical conclusion: Get your kids into an AP school where they can hack those watered-down AP courses and stay out of the supposedly drug-ridden, underachieving remedial gen ed programs that FCPS spawns and propagates. And if you are dumb enough to believe most of the diatribe against IB and South Lakes in this thread, you will "know" that gen ed is a horrible hell at ANY school -- Oakton, Westfield, Madison, you name it.

For most of the frustrated blatherers here, they'd send their kid to an elite private prep school in a split nanosecond if they could afford it.