take it outside please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I mean really Neen and Neenologist-take your petty
> squabbling outside. You are boring the rest of
> us. Nobody cares about home prices in Madison
> district.
>
> A more honest discussion might include the high
> drug use at that school-much more interesting.

I agree! My little friend is obsessed with Vienna because she can't afford to live here. Let's move on to more interesting topics.

Why has drug use increased at Madison? Because all the top kids have left for TJ and private schools and only the losers are still there? The ever growing wealth in Vienna and Oakton? Something else?

Now, I really do need to get back to real life.

More anon.

More than a history class Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, you are accomplishing a difficult task:
> getting many of us to side with Neen and FCPS -
> and against you.
>
> This was not a matter of refusing to learn to find
> countries on a map without the help of Google.
> "Allowed to comment under a privacy waiver signed
> by received zeroes for several writing
> assignments, including two major essays not turned
> in on time." The teacher says the boy "rejected
> her offers to work with him during lunch or
> activity periods, saying he was too busy with
> Model United Nations, sports and the yearbook."
>
> Nor was it a matter of not getting along with just
> one teacher. This student's "final report card in
> June showed A's in physical education, drivers
> education and photojournalism. Other marks were
> not as good: English, B-plus; chemistry, B;
> pre-calculus, C; French, C; and world history and
> geography, D."
>
> Come now, TM, does this sound like a TJ student to
> you?
>
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > blame the (female) teacher Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > > I can't believe I actually agree with Neen.
> I
> > hate to tell you TM, but in the 'real world' it
> is
> > not enough to just know your stuff. Sometimes,
> > you actually have to produce work.< <
> >
> > Rote memorization of maps has little usefulness
> in
> > a world of Google. This kid did produce work
> in
> > the other courses it was the history course
> that
> > got him bounced.
> >


He got a "C"in pre calc. Is that the work he produced that you are referring to?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> later Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> After the ruling, we can move on to discussing SB
> appeals. There is much more spin to come!
>
> TTFN, life beckons.

Appeal on what grounds? Just didn't like the decision? This isn't a jury trial. Plus CAPS would have to come up with another $50,000? Where would they get that?

I still want to see exactly how $140,000 dollars was spent? How many CAPS members took some of that money? So called administrative costs?

Why doesn't CAPS publish their financial records? Sounds like a big scam to me?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> later Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The judge will most likely wait until late in
> the
> > day to issue his judgement. This will limit
> the
> > amount of spin a group can get out to the
> media.
>
> Gee, that's a pretty safe bet, at this time of
> day.
>
> Why is that? So he can get home before the stuff
> hits the fan? How is the ruling issued? I have
> no doubt that the press is waiting, hoping to make
> the 5:00 local news.
>
> After the ruling, we can move on to discussing SB
> appeals. There is much more spin to come!
>
> TTFN, life beckons.

Letters with the judges' ruling will be couriered to the respective attorneys. Then, the attorneys will contact their clients.

Huh? Wrote:
> Letters with the judges' ruling will be couriered
> to the respective attorneys. Then, the attorneys
> will contact their clients.

Thank you. It looks like, unless someone from the School Board office posts here, we are left waiting for someone from CAPS to let us know what is going on.

A link to a source would be nice. nbc4.com does not quite have it right. http://www.nbc4.com/news/17013639/detail.html currently states, "some students at Oakton, Madison and Westfield high schools would attend South Lakes High School in Reston. ... Herndon and Chantilly high schools are also affected."

They forgot to mention some Chantilly students are going further away to Oakton, and as my fellow forum readers know, Herndon HS is NOT affected.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree! My little friend is obsessed with Vienna
> because she can't afford to live here.

Wrong (by a long shot).

>
> Why has drug use increased at Madison? Because
> all the top kids have left for TJ and private
> schools and only the losers are still there? The
> ever growing wealth in Vienna and Oakton?
> Something else?

This is how you describe the high school that all your new neighbors are so anxious to attend? I'm sure they appreciate the back-handed complements. You really do just post to annoy others and get attention.

>
> Now, I really do need to get back to real life.

As if...

While looking for news about the judge's decision, I found this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/27/AR2008072701740.html
It helps to explain Marshall's success. Another idea SLHS might try?

"... Marshall High is the only high school in the county where nearly every teacher has an extended contract. Drawing on research, teams from each discipline meet regularly to discuss what they teach and how they should teach it, including how to modify their approach for students who excel or struggle.
Rather than the traditional model, 'where you shut the door and you are responsible for everything that happens there,' the best way for teachers to improve is to share research and feedback and implement what works, said J. Timothy Kane, an International Baccalaureate history teacher.
In Marshall High's library, Kane and two other social studies teachers spent their summer morning studying results from the most recent IB history exam and analyzing a dip in scores in one area of the test. They reviewed what might have been different about the teaching in other areas. Three-quarters of their students scored a five or better on a seven-point scale. 'That's very good, but you can always do better,' Kane said. ..."

This just in... The judge upheld the decision of the school board.

What is the source of your information?

Neenologist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > Now, I really do need to get back to real life.
>
>
> As if...


That is the truest statement in this blog. 2286 posts in 11 months.

source? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is the source of your information?

Wiji Board

Cliff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> source? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What is the source of your information?
>
> Wiji Board

Wiji Board? As the Ouij board game?

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cliff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > source? Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What is the source of your information?
> >
> > Wiji Board
>
> Wiji Board? As the Ouij board game?

Yes, Norm and I did the reading twice. I have a call into Neville and Mary at Telepathic TV to see what their getting on their Wiji board. Maybe we can get Mary to a tarot card reading also.

May not know for a day or more. By the way to those that question CAPS legal fee's you clearly have little knowledge of what legal fees are in general. Let's do the math... divide 135k by $350 an hour ( roughly average for a Stone type attorney) this gives us 9.6 40 hour work weeks on this topic, just for one person at $350 or 4.8 forty hour work weeks for 2 attorney's. Either way not at all an unexpected fee. In fact I would say it is pretty reasonable.

No News Yet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> May not know for a day or more. By the way to
> those that question CAPS legal fee's you clearly
> have little knowledge of what legal fees are in
> general. Let's do the math... divide 135k by $350
> an hour ( roughly average for a Stone type
> attorney) this gives us 9.6 40 hour work weeks on
> this topic, just for one person at $350 or 4.8
> forty hour work weeks for 2 attorney's. Either
> way not at all an unexpected fee. In fact I would
> say it is pretty reasonable.

Reasonable assuming, of course, you win (and win any appeal) which I believe a very remote possibility. If you lose then FCPS will be even more arrogant then ever.

I agree with the other poster about the legal fees. This case is not all that complicated. $350 an hour attorneys? Most of the leg work was done by paralegals.

The ruling will tell us if CAPS got their moneys' worth. Otherwise they just pissed it away and should have used it to finance some new school board members.

Even if they win-what happens? FCPS goes back to the drawing board and MAYBE includes Langley. Most of the newly drawn boundaries will stay as is and most of the same students will still get sent to South Lakes.

I think the money spent on the lawsuit was wasteful.

No News Yet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > May not know for a day or more. By the way to those that question CAPS legal fee's you clearly have little knowledge of what legal fees are in general. Let's do the math... divide 135k by $350 an hour ( roughly average for a Stone type attorney) this gives us 9.6 40 hour work weeks on this topic, just for one person at $350 or 4.8 forty hour work weeks for 2 attorney's. Either way not at all an unexpected fee. In fact I would say it is pretty reasonable.< <

Man, would I love you for a client.

I did a 3 day jury trial not that long ago with 5 parties, 6 witnesses, each of whom were deposed in advance of trial, multiple motions to compel, demurrers, pleas in bar etc. That bill did not top $100,000.

Stone's office is basically a one man band which means, at $350/hr. he billed 385 hours for a 3 hour hearing! Wow.

legal fees Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with the other poster about the legal
> fees. This case is not all that complicated. $350
> an hour attorneys? Most of the leg work was done
> by paralegals.
>
> The ruling will tell us if CAPS got their moneys'
> worth. Otherwise they just pissed it away and
> should have used it to finance some new school
> board members.
>
> Even if they win-what happens? FCPS goes back to
> the drawing board and MAYBE includes Langley.
> Most of the newly drawn boundaries will stay as is
> and most of the same students will still get sent
> to South Lakes.
>
> I think the money spent on the lawsuit was
> wasteful.


Unless you spent money on the lawsuit, and I doubt you did (SLPTA), then I don't think it is any of your business. If I wanted to go burn my greenbacks in the backyard, it is also none of your business. Commenting on someone else's wastefulness seems like a very arrogant thing to do.

Even if we lose, I will not consider my contribution to Caps a waste.

Huh? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> legal fees Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I agree with the other poster about the legal
> > fees. This case is not all that complicated.
> $350
> > an hour attorneys? Most of the leg work was
> done
> > by paralegals.
> >
> > The ruling will tell us if CAPS got their
> moneys'
> > worth. Otherwise they just pissed it away and
> > should have used it to finance some new school
> > board members.
> >
> > Even if they win-what happens? FCPS goes back
> to
> > the drawing board and MAYBE includes Langley.
> > Most of the newly drawn boundaries will stay as
> is
> > and most of the same students will still get
> sent
> > to South Lakes.
> >
> > I think the money spent on the lawsuit was
> > wasteful.
>
>
> Unless you spent money on the lawsuit, and I doubt
> you did (SLPTA), then I don't think it is any of
> your business. If I wanted to go burn my
> greenbacks in the backyard, it is also none of
> your business. Commenting on someone else's
> wastefulness seems like a very arrogant thing to
> do.
>
> Even if we lose, I will not consider my
> contribution to Caps a waste.


Jane Strauss will never let the SB touch Langley. If Caps wins the RD will die a quiet death.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No News Yet Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > May not know for a day or more. By the way to
> those that question CAPS legal fee's you clearly
> have little knowledge of what legal fees are in
> general. Let's do the math... divide 135k by $350
> an hour ( roughly average for a Stone type
> attorney) this gives us 9.6 40 hour work weeks on
> this topic, just for one person at $350 or 4.8
> forty hour work weeks for 2 attorney's. Either
> way not at all an unexpected fee. In fact I would
> say it is pretty reasonable.< <
>
> Man, would I love you for a client.
>
> I did a 3 day jury trial not that long ago with 5
> parties, 6 witnesses, each of whom were deposed in
> advance of trial, multiple motions to compel,
> demurrers, pleas in bar etc. That bill did not top
> $100,000.
>
> Stone's office is basically a one man band which
> means, at $350/hr. he billed 385 hours for a 3
> hour hearing! Wow.



With everybody talking about the CAPS fees, how about somebody who is an insider with FCPS show the breakdown of the sb's attorney fees? As we know on this forum, these people who contributed to CAPS to support the lawsuit paid with their own money while the SB's legal fees are covered by the FCPS funds...from the taxpayers.

Some of these CAPS people are as nasty as the South Lakes PTA people-it is hard to have sympathy for either camp. The self-righteousness is tiresome.

I got news for you sweetie-if CAPS intends to be a viable parent friendly non profit group for parents victimized by FCPS-you better get used to the scrutiny.

And if witches like you are running the show-your group will cease to exist.

As far as the validity to their claim of "lack of efficiency" in the RD methods or "arbitrary and capricious" actions-this is not an easy battle.

School districts throught the country are redrawing their lines and using "socio-economic" methods to do it. I can't imagine some yuck yuck judge in Fairfax Couty Va. is going to bitch slap all public schools. The actions by FCPS would have to be bordering corruption for the judge to set such a legal precedent-very unlikely, I think,

Questioner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Jane Strauss will never let the SB touch Langley.
> If Caps wins the RD will die a quiet death.

Agree. It will die a quiet death until the SB can get enough members to agree to redistricting the entire county. They have at least 4-5 members in support of that idea but need 2-3 more. After the chaos of this redistricting, my guess is that they may have picked up one or two board members who would rather redistrict the entire county rather than take the death by a thousand cuts method of one school at a time.

and the arrogance award goes to... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of these CAPS people are as nasty as the
> South Lakes PTA people-it is hard to have sympathy
> for either camp. The self-righteousness is
> tiresome.
>
> I got news for you sweetie-if CAPS intends to be a
> viable parent friendly non profit group for
> parents victimized by FCPS-you better get used to
> the scrutiny.
>
> And if witches like you are running the show-your
> group will cease to exist.
>
> As far as the validity to their claim of "lack of
> efficiency" in the RD methods or "arbitrary and
> capricious" actions-this is not an easy battle.
>
> School districts throught the country are
> redrawing their lines and using "socio-economic"
> methods to do it. I can't imagine some yuck yuck
> judge in Fairfax Couty Va. is going to bitch slap
> all public schools. The actions by FCPS would have
> to be bordering corruption for the judge to set
> such a legal precedent-very unlikely, I think,

Is that correct? Did those districts exclude the rich folks? That seems rather capricious. Did they exclude neighborhoods within two miles but include those 7 miles away? Was 'socio-economic' clearly a code for "get more Whites and Asians in here but exclude the richest Whites and Asians"?

Of course whatever the judge decides, the SB will appeal. It won't set a precedent quite yet. But I still think all of this has scared the crap out of the school board. There is NO way that they will go down this path again any time soon. They may redistrict, but they will never do it this way again.

Just heard on Channel 4 the judge did uphold the school board. SL is still not getting my kids, let the backlash begin...

Well, let FU carry on for 350 more OCD pages! Meantime, the rest of us will go about the business of being supportive parents and community members.

http://www.nbc4.com/news/17013639/detail.html

and the arrogance award goes to... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of these CAPS people are as nasty as the
> South Lakes PTA people-it is hard to have sympathy
> for either camp. The self-righteousness is
> tiresome.
>
> I got news for you sweetie-if CAPS intends to be a
> viable parent friendly non profit group for
> parents victimized by FCPS-you better get used to
> the scrutiny.
>
> And if witches like you are running the show-your
> group will cease to exist.
>
>

Which posters are the nasty CAPs people? I've only seen a couple of posters here who claim to be affiliated with CAPS and they have been very courteous. But I have to agree, the SL PTSA people are very nasty, under whatever name.

Judge Approves FCPS Plan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, let FU carry on for 350 more OCD pages!
> Meantime, the rest of us will go about the
> business of being supportive parents and community
> members.
>
> http://www.nbc4.com/news/17013639/detail.html]

Ah, another sanctimonious, better-than-thou, South Lakes parent. Thanks for letting us know just how wonderful you are.

Neen is too funny. I'm not affiliated with SLHS at all. Just with my kids and my school, which isn't SLHS.

Which just goes to show you how people are so quick to judge.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course whatever the judge decides, the SB will
> appeal. It won't set a precedent quite yet. But
> I still think all of this has scared the crap out
> of the school board. There is NO way that they
> will go down this path again any time soon. They
> may redistrict, but they will never do it this way
> again.

Why would the School Board appeal a decision upholding the RD plan? And if the plaintiffs don't appeal, and the decision isn't overturned, why wouldn't there be a precedent?

Doesn't mean the SB will or won't do it the same way again or that any particular RD is a good idea in the first place - but if they do, won't they know they are on stronger legal ground?

Thomas More?

Nothing about the courtroom result surprises me. Litigation against government entities in their exercise of discretion is typically a long odds affair. Thomas More has explained it far better than I ever could, and my strong guess is that the decision invokes many of the points he has made in supporting its holding. Time to move on.

Judge Approves - the vigor which this caused people to approach the schools strikes me as very beneficial. One cannot be a supportive parent unless they first do just that - support their children. And acting out of that form of self interest is beneficial, because it makes parents and their students demanding consumers, which is exactly what they ought to be given the resources expended towards our schools.

The lawsuit is in a sense unfortunate because if anything, the redistricting should have promptly highlighted the problem of what to do with challenging populations and the overall level of achievement, and in that sense it has been a mere distraction. Ok, it has done that to some extent. But this is an opportunity to have a real debate while the iron is hot. The real problem with SLHS - and others like it - is that while not a failing school - the moniker some like to tag it with - it will continue to experience student exodus - absent a significant sea change and mindset - something that is not likely to happen in a large monolithic school district.

TJM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and he probably can't make the cut for Robinson's
> football team. even a bigger bummer


Don't bet the ranch. Matt is big, tough, and smart.

Judge Approves FCPS Plan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, let FU carry on for 350 more OCD pages!
> Meantime, the rest of us will go about the
> business of being supportive parents and community
> members.
>
> http://www.nbc4.com/news/17013639/detail.html


Agreed, but it is fun to watch the niggling back and forth. It is clear that Neen and the rest of the non-stop posters here have WAY more free time than those of us who work for a living to spend beating a non-issue to death. This pissing contest has been fun to watch at times, but it really never seems to go anywhere as people go about trying to find the biggest rock they can in order to stone the opposing view into submission.

FYI...I am not a member of SL community (my kids attend Robinson).

Could we now hear from all the folks who posted here telling one and all that I didn't know what I was writing about?

Any body?

[crickets]

Say what - Judge Finches decision will not be precedential. In this area of law, only decisions of the Va Supreme Court can be precedential (i.e., binding on lower courts) but his decision will be persuasive (i.e., other circuits court judges might follow his reasoning and conclusion).

You certainly expect Gibson and the Boundary Goonies to gloat again.

Will Bruce throw another party?

I think that the SB is sufficiently battered and bruised from the SL redistricting that they'd rather unnecessarily spend money on a SoCo middle school than redistrict SoCo to open up room at SoCo High.

Can CAPS now please move on to the recall of Gibson which was always a much stronger case given Gibson's admitted violation of Federal and State law?

Thanks for trying Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just heard on Channel 4 the judge did uphold the
> school board. SL is still not getting my kids, let
> the backlash begin...

And you people mocked our Wiji board reading...

It's a done deal. The SB has successfully masked the problems at SLHS, at least for a few years, on the backs of Fox Mill and Floris. Those affected by this travesty would be wise to move, find a private school, or make the most of SLHS. Continued whining will not do anyone anygood.

Cliff and Norm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for trying Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just heard on Channel 4 the judge did uphold
> the
> > school board. SL is still not getting my kids,
> let
> > the backlash begin...
>
> And you people mocked our Wiji board reading...

probably because you can't spell Ouija correctly

Wohooo! $400 dollars and hour...

The CAPS lawyer can use his $135,000 here http://www.highroadag.com/fwash/inventory/

Thanks to all who gave to FairfaxCAPS and the lawyer. Still waiting for FairfaxCAPS to publish exactly where all the contributions went? They are an ORG so they have to by law disclose finances. Follow the money...



Please continue to send money, just $500 to $1000 donations please.
Attachments:

Just finished listening to the mp3 file on the FCPS BoardDocs web page for the discussion of proposed boundary studies at the July 24 school board meeting. It was a very short mp3 file, because it was a very short discussion. The presiding school board member (Storck, I think) spoke briefly about the general process they're using this year, and that was it.

The agenda item on the BoardDocs site did give some info on what the board is heading toward approving. It says "At the Board's July 18, 2008, retreat, there was a discussion about the selection criteria to consider for populating a new elementary school. The consensus of the Board was to consider the following criteria: reduce overcrowding in neighboring schools, geographic proximity, maximize stability of programs, accomodate current student enrollment, accomodate projected future enrollment, reduce boundary lines (e.g. islands), adhere to core capacity, provides SES and SOL balance of diversity, respect man-made and natural barriers, school feeder assignments, minimize split neighborhoods, and minimize additional capital/operating costs."

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Doesn't mean the SB will or won't do it the same
> way again or that any particular RD is a good idea
> in the first place - but if they do, won't they
> know they are on stronger legal ground?


It's not the legal ground that bothers the SB, it's the constant emails, phone calls, and terrible PR, for many months, that prevents them from ever wanting to do it this way again. They never want to have to face this many angry people for 6 months again. They now know that public isn't going to buy their phone community meetings and public hearings. They will either redistrict by fiat, 5% at a time, or they will redistrict the whole county using an outside consultant to recommend what that they want them to do, or they will wait and let the next school board figure it out.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing about the courtroom result surprises me.
> Litigation against government entities in their
> exercise of discretion is typically a long odds
> affair. Thomas More has explained it far better
> than I ever could, and my strong guess is that the
> decision invokes many of the points he has made in
> supporting its holding. Time to move on.
>
> Judge Approves - the vigor which this caused
> people to approach the schools strikes me as very
> beneficial. One cannot be a supportive parent
> unless they first do just that - support their
> children. And acting out of that form of self
> interest is beneficial, because it makes parents
> and their students demanding consumers, which is
> exactly what they ought to be given the resources
> expended towards our schools.
>
> The lawsuit is in a sense unfortunate because if
> anything, the redistricting should have promptly
> highlighted the problem of what to do with
> challenging populations and the overall level of
> achievement, and in that sense it has been a mere
> distraction. Ok, it has done that to some extent.
> But this is an opportunity to have a real debate
> while the iron is hot. The real problem with SLHS
> - and others like it - is that while not a failing
> school - the moniker some like to tag it with - it
> will continue to experience student exodus -
> absent a significant sea change and mindset -
> something that is not likely to happen in a large
> monolithic school district.

Our school board had a great opportunity to give the community what they wanted, while improving South Lakes. Had they promised an AP program, and whatever else the community desired, redistricting just might have worked. They could have offered so many varying enticements, including magnets, AP, advanced math and science. But they refused to offer parents anything to improve South Lakes, other than the bodies of more White and Asian students. They offered NO change in mindset, no change of any kind. Hence, they met with VERY strong resistance. That's why you are correct, South Lakes will not improve. Involved parents, who care about education, will continue to find a way to keep their children out of South Lakes, just as they have for the last 15+ years.

What a shame. It's all for naught. Staff and school board blew a great opportunity to improve South Lakes and all they did was insure its continued decline. Not that they care, it's not their money that was wasted on this fruitless exercise that did nothing but anger the public.

I know Matt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TJM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > and he probably can't make the cut for
> Robinson's
> > football team. even a bigger bummer
>
>
> Don't bet the ranch. Matt is big, tough, and
> smart.

And just a tad lazy when it comes to academics.

I wish him well and hope that he loves Robinson. I suspect that he will do very well there and be very popular and happy, once he gets over what his parents have done to him with this exposure.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a done deal. The SB has successfully masked
> the problems at SLHS, at least for a few years, on
> the backs of Fox Mill and Floris. Those affected
> by this travesty would be wise to move, find a
> private school, or make the most of SLHS.
> Continued whining will not do anyone anygood.

Most of them have already found a way out, just as parents have in the past who were assigned to South Lakes. There is no reason for that to change now.

Mike Sorce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Judge Approves FCPS Plan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, let FU carry on for 350 more OCD pages!
> > Meantime, the rest of us will go about the
> > business of being supportive parents and
> community
> > members.
> >
> > http://www.nbc4.com/news/17013639/detail.html
>
>
> Agreed, but it is fun to watch the niggling back
> and forth. It is clear that Neen and the rest of
> the non-stop posters here have WAY more free time
> than those of us who work for a living to spend
> beating a non-issue to death.

Nope. We just know how to type using more than 2 fingers.

From Fairfax Times

Fairfax judge rules in favor of school board in redistricting case
By Gregg MacDonald

A Fairfax County judge has ruled that a controversial school redistricting by the Fairfax County School Board was executed within the board's authority.

Late Monday afternoon, Fairfax County Circuit Court Judge Gaylord L. Finch Jr. denied a request for an injunction, according to Scott Chronister, a spokesperson for FairfaxCAPS, an advocacy group that funded the suit against the school board.

On Feb. 28, the Fairfax County School Board voted 10-2 to approve boundary adjustments for South Lakes, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield high schools, Thoreau and Hughes middle schools, and Wolftrap and Sunrise Valley Elementary Schools in an action called the “West County high schools boundary adjustment.”

The plan would redistrict students from attending Westfield, Oakton and Madison high schools to instead attend Reston's South Lakes High School. Also, some students who would have gone to Chantilly High School would attend Oakton.

On March 28, a suit was filed on behalf of 11 parents of children affected by the proposed redistricting plan, with the support of The Fairfax Coalition of Advocates for Public Schools (Fairfax CAPS).

The suit stated that the School Board's decision was invalid because it was “arbitrary and capricious and undertaken in excess of its authority.”

It further maintained that the school board did not comply with its policy on school boundary adjustments and ignored information demonstrating that the redistricting does not “maintain or improve operating efficiency or instructional effectiveness of the schools impacted,” and that “the school board exceeded its statutory authority by considering the socioeconomic characteristics of the school population” in making its redistricting decision.

But on Monday, Judge Finch ruled otherwise. "We lost at the Circuit Court level," said Chronister on Monday of the decision.

Chronister said that the judge's decision, approximately four paragraphs long, was "extremely disappointing in its brevity and lack of providing any kind of clarification on the specifics on the rationale of the ruling."

The case originally went to court on July 3, where in three hours, both sides pleaded their cases. Judge Finch promised a decision by July 28.

"Our next move is continue our efforts to ensure accountability for the school board," said Chronister. "We need to sit down as a group and see if we want to appeal this decision. I think that it is very clear that if a circuit court could make such a decision--that the school board did not act in excess of its authority--we need to do something at the state level to fix the statute governing the board's authority," he said.

From Marc Fisher's blog
Reprinted in WAPO, Tuesday, July 29, 2008; B03

When Elitism Goes Off the Deep End
By Raw Fisher

Pity poor Matthew Nuti, who dared to be only good. Weep for students at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology who, like Matthew, managed to maintain only a B-minus average and who therefore have been summarily given the heave-ho from the Fairfax school.

To be admitted to TJ -- by some measures the highest-achieving public school in the nation -- you must score exceedingly well on the entrance exam. And now, to stay at TJ, you must maintain at least a B average. Apparently, TJ students, by virtue of their extraordinary skills and unmatched work ethic, are by definition A students. Those who fall short obviously do not belong.

As The Washington Post's Jay Matthews reported last weekend, Matthew, a 16-year-old rising junior, is one of five students at the school who failed in the past school year to stay at or above a 3.0 average -- and, as Principal Evan Glazer wrote to families last summer, anyone who cannot make that grade should be "placed in a learning environment appropriate to their academic challenge and motivation level."

Never mind that Matthew was a Gavel Award winner on TJ's victorious Model United Nations team, or that he was a starting lineman on the school football team, or that by all accounts, he's a smart, witty kid.

As in Garrison Keillor's Lake Wobegon, where all the children are above average, at TJ, the idea that a student could fall below a B violates the illusion that a child is a perfectible product.

Above all, parents must be shielded from the fact that even the exalted TJ is home to geniuses, the merely brilliant and, yes, a fair number of kids who are bright but not wildly so or who somehow manage to find things other than academics about which to be passionate in their middle teen years. The school's self-image requires that its students be perceived as having been scientifically selected to stand far above a nation whose schools slouch ever more precipitously into mediocrity.

There is nothing wrong with a school that caters to an intellectual elite; high-end education is one of the things this country does best, though hardly consistently. But there is something wrong with catering to those who believe children are successful only if they attain perfection as measured by grades, scores and other such clumsy indicators of achievement.

For four years, Princeton University has been fighting a virtually solitary war against grade inflation. To the horror of some of its students, the university has pressured professors to reduce the portion of kids who get A's from about half to something more like a third.

Grades ought to mean something. They ought to help students, teachers, colleges and graduate schools, employers and parents figure out how a kid is doing. In a selective school, the range of talents and performances will be higher than elsewhere, but there is still a range. You might believe the differences at a place like TJ are so slight as to be meaningless. You'd be wrong. In any population, there are those who stand out, those who do just fine, those who perform below their potential and those who just shouldn't be there.

Grades are a means of communication and motivation: If Matthew failed to meet deadlines or did mediocre work, his middling grades were his teachers' way of saying it was time to buckle down. Turning mediocre grades into a death penalty moots the basic notion that a school ought to spur people on to the hard work of studying and learning.

Was TJ right to toss Matthew Nuti? His average was barely below the ridiculous cutoff the administration established. More important, the range of grades at the school is so narrow as to be nearly meaningless.

If TJ seeks to cull kids who won't commit to the idea of school as academic boot camp, that's fine. There ought to be room for such an approach in a society that has so many schools with a completely opposite, utterly slacker sensibility. But first, the school needs to confront students and parents with a grading system that rejects the fiction that nearly everyone is so wonderful, so brilliant and so hard-working that they all deserve A's.

Any institution can be improved by lopping off the bottom-most rank, but a numerical, mechanized definition of the bottom denies the turbulent, mercurial nature of adolescence. I don't know Matthew Nuti, but I hope some TJ teachers do. I'd be far more impressed by a system that let their collective judgment determine who stays and who goes rather than see a 16-year-old's future defined by a fraction of a grade point.

Maybe Matthew will find it hard to keep up with his peers, but maybe he's just a 16-year-old who took his eye off the ball for a while and would come back strong. A B-minus isn't flunking out in anybody's eyes. Defining it as an unacceptable, shameful performance only means this school's sense of judgment is way off.

You'd think the folks at TJ might be smart enough to figure that out.

So...I read the paper this morning with the bad news about the lawsuit. My feeling is that the judge knew all along his decision, and postponing it only meant time for people to "think" that they had a chance. What a hoot! At any rate, let me say this: My children were NOT redistricted, but I agreed with the majority that the ONLY reason for it was to bring more "great students" to cover the inequities of South Lakes....Sorry, but it will NOT work....it is NOT the pretty building--that needs to be populated, but it is the "crowd"....Great principal, great teachers, great cadre of parents (very small I must say), but ultimately it is the school body who makes the school a success, and it is case, it is doomed....the "chosen ones", the ones that SL desperately want to attract ARE NOT coming and quote me in this one.....I see the writing on the wall. Most of the people we know already made plans to be transferred to "BETTER schools", carpool, or simply take a loss and bought houses far from SL. The only ones that are coming are the ones that cannot afford to either move or go to private schools....It will take years.....many years for SL to built a better reputation....by then, my kids and all his friends will be done with college.

What a shame that people didn't have a say....but, if is any consolation, the bums that made that happened will be replaced....there is justice after all.

I understand the need to bring more equity among schools, but not at the expense of splitting neighborhoods....sorry...it didn't cut it for me. SLPTA people: good luck to you....you only brought animosity....your day will come too...and not in a good way. You don't know better....and please make SURE that you truly listen to the newcomers, don't pay lip service, it does show your insincerity.

For the rest: There is ALWAYS a way out! Just because you are ASSIGNED to SL, doesn't mean for a minute YOU HAVE TO GO.....

Mike Sorce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Judge Approves FCPS Plan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, let FU carry on for 350 more OCD pages!
> > Meantime, the rest of us will go about the
> > business of being supportive parents and
> community
> > members.
> >
> > http://www.nbc4.com/news/17013639/detail.html
>
>
> Agreed, but it is fun to watch the niggling back
> and forth. It is clear that Neen and the rest of
> the non-stop posters here have WAY more free time
> than those of us who work for a living to spend
> beating a non-issue to death. This pissing
> contest has been fun to watch at times, but it
> really never seems to go anywhere as people go
> about trying to find the biggest rock they can in
> order to stone the opposing view into submission.
>
> FYI...I am not a member of SL community (my kids
> attend Robinson).


Yeah, I am not a member of SL either, but for all the fun seen with the rock throwers...I must admit I truly feel sorry for the ones stuck in this controversy. There are ONLY losers in this war: SL because they will never get the "right" elements to feed into the school....too much animosity and it is their fault--but, I bet that Bruce will "throw" another "victory" party. On the opposite corner, the ones that have NO choice but to go: either they don't have the means or cannot move. So you see....only losers. Of course, there will be parents that will be supporting, but only for their kids, Not the school....very self-serving.

FCPS staff said that with the redistricting SLHS would have 1615 students this fall. The school must have created its "master schedule" for 2007-2008 by now so it can hire teachers and buy books. How many students' schedules are included?

-------------------

NotPoliticallyCorrect Wrote:
> There is ALWAYS a way out! Just
> because you are ASSIGNED to SL, doesn't mean for a
> minute YOU HAVE TO GO.....

Since 2002, the school board staff and board members have said the process they are using for redistricting is flawed. Members of the Board said it again in 2008 with this last redistricting. Will they change the process? Not! It is working for them.

I guess there will be dancing in the streets by the SLPTA with Gibson leading the parade. Will Bruce Butler will throw another victory party? Exactly how many of the students who are being forced to attend South Lakes and Hughes Middle school will actually attend is another story.


Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Say What? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > Doesn't mean the SB will or won't do it the
> same
> > way again or that any particular RD is a good
> idea
> > in the first place - but if they do, won't they
> > know they are on stronger legal ground?
>
>
> It's not the legal ground that bothers the SB,
> it's the constant emails, phone calls, and
> terrible PR, for many months, that prevents them
> from ever wanting to do it this way again. They
> never want to have to face this many angry people
> for 6 months again. They now know that public
> isn't going to buy their phone community meetings
> and public hearings. They will either redistrict
> by fiat, 5% at a time, or they will redistrict the
> whole county using an outside consultant to
> recommend what that they want them to do, or they
> will wait and let the next school board figure it
> out.

This is excellent news! I bought a ton of real estate in Reston and redistricting areas. Now I will make millions. It was pretty obvious that the lawsuit was a waste, but gave me time to buy redistricting property at a low value.

Why did FairfaxCAPS allow the case to be tried in front of Judge Finch? That was a huge mistake.

This issue has been decided by the courts, it's all over but the shouting.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=722&sid=1449109

Time to move on to other issues I guess... it has been a pleasure conversing with you here!

It's not over, we are having huge parties, parades in Reston. I hear Stu Gibson is going to do some dancing. Reston, not only do we place highest on every list in nation for the county, now we will have the best schools too. Reston always wins.

Seriously, if people think the board acted in excess of its authority, they should probably move to a township-based school system, where there is one high school and no threat of redistricting. Then a place like Oakton could have its own school district. But then, it would also have to fund its own school district. I know of small school districts in other parts of the country that are very well thought of. But without a business base, taxes in those areas are twice what we are paying. Seriously.

Without much of a business base, Oaktonites would be paying much higher taxes. while those of us in Reston would be paying much less in property taxes, because of our business base. Reston is, in effect, subsidizing surrounding suburbs such as Oakton.

While I think the SB should place more importance on certain factors, such as keeping pyramids intact, they do still need to redistrict from time to time. Unless it is restructured into smaller school districts. Which Restonites would greatly benefit from and Oakton would suffer from, financially speaking.

How come FairfaxCAPS.org is not updating their website with the news?

South Lakes Pyramid - you are likely correct in your points about the tax base. The amazing thing is that there is no shortage of people willing to live in those jurisdictions and pay those taxes. There would not be any shortage here would small jurisdictions obtain, at least as regards the so-called desirable districts. So while Oaktonites would complain about the taxes, they would pay them. No reason to think that Oakton would be any different than Glencoe, Illinois, Dix Hills, New York, or Marin County in California.

Of course, some may refer to those who make this kind of choice as "elitist." Maybe so, but that moniker does not change the fact that the impulse to place students in schools with lots of other good students (the "crowd", as referred to above) is incredibly strong. Our realtor friends can of course confirm the same.

Without meaning to be insensitive, the loss in the lawsuit is in my view a good thing. Even thought the School Board botched it terribly here, in a jurisdiction of over a million people, officials must have the discretion to redistrict. But if I were a SLHS supporter invested in this (and while I no longer have kids in the system, I could see becoming interested in helping out - Reston offers a very interesting set of challenges with, unlike many other places, some resources to work on them), I would now be worried. Not worried in the political sense, or even insecure sense. But this is a moment to make the absolute most of a conflict ridden situation, and it should be taken advantage of, because the peril is that the numbers over time simply won't increase. This issue has received considerable local attention, as well as a bit of national attention. Has anyone, for example, thought of calling the KIPP (Knowledge is Power Program) people in to take a look at what SLHS is doing? This is not to say that the school should adopt KIPP but they have had some success in difficult communities - this is the time to shake things up and shoot for excellence.

Well. You SL folks are gloating. You best bring out the red carpet for the new kids. Make them feel welcome. Make them and their parents look back on this and say, "you know what, that ended up being a good thing". Don't gloat Reston. Just welcome the families and make it work.

The kids at SL could actually care less whether or not there are more students at their school next year. They didn't ask for this. I'm sure they will welcome the new students with open arms none the less though. After all, it wasn't the "new kids" fault that their "helicopter parents" made such a fuss about this whole issue.

You're Welcome Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The kids at SL could actually care less whether or
> not there are more students at their school next
> year. They didn't ask for this. I'm sure they
> will welcome the new students with open arms none
> the less though. After all, it wasn't the "new
> kids" fault that their "helicopter parents" made
> such a fuss about this whole issue.




Amen to that. I myslef could not be happier that my kids are going to go to school three miles from my house instead of 10 .

Wow. They could care less? Is that why they came and spoke at the schools and sb meetings about getting new course offerings? And let's face it. We are a generation of Helicopter Parents. I'm making every effort to land my helicopter and am making good progress. Drop the attitude. How would you feel if you were on the flip side? See you at SL, for us, in a couple of years.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seriously, if people think the board acted in
> excess of its authority, they should probably move
> to a township-based school system, where there is
> one high school and no threat of redistricting.
> Then a place like Oakton could have its own school
> district. But then, it would also have to fund
> its own school district. I know of small school
> districts in other parts of the country that are
> very well thought of. But without a business
> base, taxes in those areas are twice what we are
> paying. Seriously.
>
> Without much of a business base, Oaktonites would
> be paying much higher taxes. while those of us in
> Reston would be paying much less in property
> taxes, because of our business base. Reston is,
> in effect, subsidizing surrounding suburbs such as
> Oakton.
>
> While I think the SB should place more importance
> on certain factors, such as keeping pyramids
> intact, they do still need to redistrict from time
> to time. Unless it is restructured into smaller
> school districts. Which Restonites would greatly
> benefit from and Oakton would suffer from,
> financially speaking.

I think of Reston as a town or small city. Is the business tax base one reason it is not? The school board should strive for overall gains in operational efficiency via attendance areas. Do you think this decision coupled with the budget issues will impact the construction of South County Middle school?

Reston looked at INC into a town, but didn't want to lose county funding for police, fire, and road construction. It was more efficent to stay as a "district" and charge a Reston Home Owners fee for maintaining Reston common land and parks and then use county funds for roads etc...

It's really a double win for Reston residents. The best of the county, the best of private homeowner funding.

Reston can afford to do that because they have some of the wealthiest homeowners in county. You just don't see the wealth flaunted, most Reston residents are living out their retirement and have bought second homes some place else and only stay in Reston part of the year.

The wealthy in Reston live on the north side of Baron Cameron, far away from the clutches of the failing schools. They attend Langley and Herndon.

reston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The wealthy in Reston live on the north side of
> Baron Cameron, far away from the clutches of the
> failing schools. They attend Langley and Herndon.

Not true. Those are just new houses built in the 90's, but not where most of the wealth is. I'd say the wealthiest area's are around the lakes, woods and pathways in the South end. That's the area you find all the retired 60's residents. Some spotty wealth around the Reston Town Center town houses\apts and Lake Anne also.

And, for the poor areas of Reston, that just like all the other parts of FFX county; It's where ever you find high density living (condos\apartments).

what a crying shame that the SB gets to get away with this behavior; the disregard of people's wishes as well as significant disruption of people's lives. To the judge in this case, it is significantly capricious when students that should be going to Chantilly will have to catch a bus a 6:15 in the morning to get to Oakton by 6:45 just so they can sit in the hallway waiting for school to begin at 7:45. What a positive educational experience! Kathy Smith, this is your LAST time around as a representative of our community. Your choices will have political consequences as there are a great number of us who will work diligently to prevent you from ever holding another public office. BTW, good luck with funding the increased transportation costs. For a board that is supposed to be fiscally responsible, you have surely blown it big time. Shame on all of you.

Restonite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reston looked at INC into a town, but didn't want to lose county funding for police, fire, and road construction. It was more efficent to stay as a "district" and charge a Reston Home Owners fee for maintaining Reston common land and parks and then use county funds for roads etc...
>
> It's really a double win for Reston residents. The best of the county, the best of private homeowner funding.
>
> Reston can afford to do that because they have some of the wealthiest homeowners in county. You just don't see the wealth flaunted, most Reston residents are living out their retirement and have bought second homes some place else and only stay in Reston part of the year.< <

Who told you that fairly tale? Cathy Hudgins?

If Reston attained town or city status, the combined burden of RA dues, RCC taxes and Town/City taxes would be significantly less than the current combined burden of RA dues, RCC taxes and County taxes. Mostly because the commercial properties would be contributing toward the upkeep of the RA facilities. As it is now, they get a free pass on the RA expenses but benefit from those amenities.

With city government, Restonians would also have decisions like school boundaries and land use approvals decided by political bodies directly accountable to Restonians. We wouldn't have to worry about meddlers like Strauss.

Continuation of the status quo is the worst of all possible outcomes. No self determination and higher than necessary taxes and dues which dues are not deductible on state and Federal income tax returns. The only people who benefits from the status quo are Cathy Hudgins, Stuy and the owners of commercial property in Reston. For the homewners it's a lose lose, all around.

BTW, the County doesn't pay to construct or maintain roads. It's a VDOT function.

I don't think the Restonites or those in favor of RD are gloating.

chantilly mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To the judge in this case, it is
> significantly capricious when students that should
> be going to Chantilly will have to catch a bus a
> 6:15 in the morning to get to Oakton by 6:45 just
> so they can sit in the hallway waiting for school
> to begin at 7:45.

Not sure where you got the info on when the bus will pick up your kids, but your info on the start time at Oakton is wrong. School starts at 7:20 not 7:45. Hopefully your pick up time is incorrect too, so that the kids won't have to hang out that long.

Why shucks, bless your little heart. Go right ahead and continue to think you are superior to South Reston, if it makes you feel better about yourself. Too bad that reality is hitting you in the face. Too bad Herndon's SAT scores were lower than SL last year, and too bad Herndon middle failed AYP again last year. But keep thinking those superior (read: inferior) thoughts, dearie.

Too bad your reston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The wealthy in Reston live on the north side of
> Baron Cameron, far away from the clutches of the
> failing schools. They attend Langley and Herndon.

From where I sit (on the border of the 'woods'), the wonderful folks of Reston (South Lakes) went out of their way to welcome new families - they started laying out the Red Carpet last year. The bitterness was all on the other side, if you know what I mean, sweetie. But if you want to think that the good folks of Reston are gloating, you go right ahead. Why, double bless your poor little heart, honey.

So, in your little uptopian world, who would foot the bill (maintenance, policing, etc.) for all of the County-owned subsidized housing that was located in Reston over the years?

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Restonite Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Reston looked at INC into a town, but didn't
> want to lose county funding for police, fire, and
> road construction. It was more efficent to stay
> as a "district" and charge a Reston Home Owners
> fee for maintaining Reston common land and parks
> and then use county funds for roads etc...
> >
> > It's really a double win for Reston residents.
> The best of the county, the best of private
> homeowner funding.
> >
> > Reston can afford to do that because they have
> some of the wealthiest homeowners in county. You
> just don't see the wealth flaunted, most Reston
> residents are living out their retirement and have
> bought second homes some place else and only stay
> in Reston part of the year.< <
>
> Who told you that fairly tale? Cathy Hudgins?
>
> If Reston attained town or city status, the
> combined burden of RA dues, RCC taxes and
> Town/City taxes would be significantly less than
> the current combined burden of RA dues, RCC taxes
> and County taxes. Mostly because the commercial
> properties would be contributing toward the upkeep
> of the RA facilities. As it is now, they get a
> free pass on the RA expenses but benefit from
> those amenities.
>
> With city government, Restonians would also have
> decisions like school boundaries and land use
> approvals decided by political bodies directly
> accountable to Restonians. We wouldn't have to
> worry about meddlers like Strauss.
>
> Continuation of the status quo is the worst of all
> possible outcomes. No self determination and
> higher than necessary taxes and dues which dues
> are not deductible on state and Federal income tax
> returns. The only people who benefits from the
> status quo are Cathy Hudgins, Stuy and the owners
> of commercial property in Reston. For the
> homewners it's a lose lose, all around.
>
> BTW, the County doesn't pay to construct or
> maintain roads. It's a VDOT function.

Neen JR.
I'm fine with my child going to SL. My child told us that he/she preferred going to South Lakes over Oakton, so I supported my child's wishes after the decision was made in February. It's you nubbin' parents on this sight that are the problem. Again, Ask yourself how you would feel if you were forced to go to Oakton or Chantilly and have to leave South Lakes. Be honest about it. Go Seahawks!

The reality is, as the population continues to grow, and the need for affordable housing grows too, the rest of the county will experience what Reston is already experiencing. If they think they can continue to live in their little enclaves forever, I think they are wrong.

All this talk about Reston fixing "its own" problems first, well, we live in Fairfax County too, which gets all of our tax revenues and dispenses it all over the county. Reston should not be the only one dealing with a problem that is, essentially, the county's problem.

And they are choosing to deal with it by looking at the SE numbers, as many other school districts are doing, because it works and the research is there to back it up. (See referenced articles from NY times a couple of pages back).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2008 03:35PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Showing 1 to 90 of 90 Schools from 2008« PREV | NEXT » PAST
YEARS RANK SCHOOL LOCATION STATE INDEX SUBS. LUNCH E&E
16 H-B Woodlawn Arlington Va. 5.636 17 93.6
48 Clarke County ** Berryville Va. 4.4 13 82
55 Langley McLean Va. 4.28 1 67.4
59 George Mason ** Falls Church Va. 4.176 7 66
65 Washington-Lee ** Arlington Va. 4.051 36 43.8
74 W. T. Woodson Fairfax Va. 3.907 6 59.5
75 Yorktown Arlington Va. 3.896 15 66.3
95 Lake Braddock Burke Va. 3.681 11 54.4
99 McLean McLean Va. 3.646 6 69.2
105 Oakton Vienna Va. 3.59 9 55.4
106 Centreville Clifton Va. 3.566 16 49
126 Chantilly Chantilly Va. 3.346 11 45.3
143 South County Secondary Fairfax Va. 3.19 15 35
145 Herndon Herndon Va. 3.175 18 54.7
148 Westfield Chantilly Va. 3.138 12 49.5
152 James Madison Vienna Va. 3.107 5 53.6
164 Loudoun Valley Purcellville Va. 3.032 4 50.7
167 Princess Anne ** Virginia Beach Va. 3.005 17.7 35.1
173 Potomac Falls Potomac Falls Va. 2.977 9 43.8
183 Broad Run Ashburn Va. 2.933 9 40
210 James River Midlothian Va. 2.752 n/a 34.2
219 Robinson Secondary ** Fairfax Va. 2.718 10 53.1
221 West Potomac Fairfax Va. 2.7 30 39.3
227 Blacksburg Blacksburg Va. 2.669 17 47.4
250 West Springfield Springfield Va. 2.605 9 52.1
254 Marshall ** Fairfax Va. 2.599 16 55.4
255 Loudoun County Leesburg Va. 2.596 10 40.5
258 Fairfax Fairfax Va. 2.587 16 43.7
266 Stone Bridge Ashburn Va. 2.562 5 49.1
270 Dominion Sterling Va. 2.551 12 38.8
271 John Handley Winchester Va. 2.549 30 30.3
289 Hylton Woodbridge Va. 2.493 20 25.7
330 Stuart ** Fairfax Va. 2.378 51 43.1
357 Warwick ** Newport News Va. 2.306 41 65
390 Falls Church Fairfax Va. 2.245 37 36.2
425 Western Albemarle Crozet Va. 2.165 6 53.8
428 Wakefield Arlington Va. 2.157 52 38.4
448 Heritage Leesburg Va. 2.108 17 33.6
465 Midlothian ** Midlothian Va. 2.069 n/a 28.5
478 Menchville Newport News Va. 2.048 n/a 24.2
523 South Lakes ** Reston Va. 1.991 33 42.5
529 Charlottesville Charlottesville Va. 1.981 42.6 33.7
561 Park View Sterling Va. 1.937 30 30
575 Potomac ** Dumfries Va. 1.919 30 14.5
632 Osbourn Park Manassas Va. 1.827 12 39.1
676 George Washington Charleston W.V. 1.749 16 27.7
690 Maury Norfolk Va. 1.732 43.2 26.3
703 Brentsville District Nokesville Va. 1.722 6 22.5
718 Ocean Lakes Virginia Beach Va. 1.7 15.8 32.3
729 Rappahannock County Washington Va. 1.693 15 44
731 Galileo Magnet Danville Va. 1.689 20 26
732 Tabb Yorktown Va. 1.689 15 30.3
734 Glass Lynchburg Va. 1.686 34 32.2
747 Colonial Forge Stafford Va. 1.655 9 34.2
762 Stonewall Jackson ** Manassas Va. 1.643 31 28.8
768 Edison ** Fairfax Va. 1.635 29 42.4
769 Poquoson Poquoson Va. 1.634 6 45
802 Gar-Field ** Woodbridge Va. 1.6 38 25.3
818 Robert E. Lee ** Springfield Va. 1.582 32 37.6
823 Hayfield Secondary Fairfax Va. 1.577 21 27.2
837 Frank W. Cox Virginia Beach Va. 1.563 9.7 31.9
839 T.C. Williams Alexandria Va. 1.56 50 22.5
856 Woodbridge Woodbridge Va. 1.546 23 23.9
879 Fauquier Warrenton Va. 1.52 10.3 23.1
883 Massaponax Fredericksburg Va. 1.514 15 24
887 Mount Vernon ** Alexandria Va. 1.511 38 34.9
930 Clover Hill Midlothian Va. 1.464 1.7 33.9
934 Riverbend Fredericksburg Va. 1.462 10 22
976 Atlee ** Mechanicsville Va. 1.426 3 31.5
977 Annandale ** Annandale Va. 1.425 40 40
987 Woodside Newport News Va. 1.417 -- 17.5
990 Chancellor Fredericksburg Va. 1.412 18 --
1020 Granby ** Norfolk Va. 1.379 47.5 17.1
1040 Stafford Falmouth Va. 1.359 14 18.4
1066 Forest Park Woodbridge Va. 1.333 16 21.7
1069 Monacan Richmond Va. 1.332 n/a 19.6
1119 Heritage Newport News Va. 1.286 54 4
1121 First Colonial Virginia Beach Va. 1.286 21.5 36.2
1136 Hurricane Hurricane W.V. 1.27 27 14.5
1141 Courtland Spotsylvania Va. 1.268 13 31.8
1171 Patrick Henry Roanoke Va. 1.242 50 18.8
1173 Hampton ** Hampton Va. 1.24 39 40
1242 Morgantown Morgantown W.V. 1.172 27 20.8
1285 Denbigh Newport News Va. 1.136 44 18
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America's Top Rated School from Newsweek.com

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think of Reston as a town or small city. Is the
> business tax base one reason it is not? The
> school board should strive for overall gains in
> operational efficiency via attendance areas. Do
> you think this decision coupled with the budget
> issues will impact the construction of South
> County Middle school?


I don't really know how the county finances work, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's why there is such opposition to the ResTown initiative.

Personally, I would love to be in a small diverse school that had a lot of money to throw at it. Then maybe we'd see small class sizes, which is probably the main ingredient to success with a diverse student body.

The Oakton area parents pay the price in terms of cost of housing. Housing in good school districts like Oakton costs more. Now when they take Oakton area and move to south lakes, these poor souls lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. The problem will worsen over time when more and more people move out back into Oakton High boundaries from these fox mill areas.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seriously, if people think the board acted in
> excess of its authority, they should probably move
> to a township-based school system, where there is
> one high school and no threat of redistricting.
> Then a place like Oakton could have its own school
> district. But then, it would also have to fund
> its own school district. I know of small school
> districts in other parts of the country that are
> very well thought of. But without a business
> base, taxes in those areas are twice what we are
> paying. Seriously.
>
> Without much of a business base, Oaktonites would
> be paying much higher taxes. while those of us in
> Reston would be paying much less in property
> taxes, because of our business base. Reston is,
> in effect, subsidizing surrounding suburbs such as
> Oakton.
>
> While I think the SB should place more importance
> on certain factors, such as keeping pyramids
> intact, they do still need to redistrict from time
> to time. Unless it is restructured into smaller
> school districts. Which Restonites would greatly
> benefit from and Oakton would suffer from,
> financially speaking.

SL will never get these students. All the ruling has done is force these parents to move.

SLHS Realtor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not over, we are having huge parties, parades
> in Reston. I hear Stu Gibson is going to do some
> dancing. Reston, not only do we place highest on
> every list in nation for the county, now we will
> have the best schools too. Reston always wins.

not true Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Oakton area parents pay the price in terms of
> cost of housing. Housing in good school districts
> like Oakton costs more. Now when they take Oakton
> area and move to south lakes, these poor souls
> lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. The problem
> will worsen over time when more and more people
> move out back into Oakton High boundaries from
> these fox mill areas.
>
>
I don't think you are getting the point. The point is, Reston, with all its urbanness and diversity, also is a cash cow for the county. If, as so many Oaktonities posting here say, they would prefer to not mix with Restonites, then maybe they should fund their own schools too. Which would be way more expensive than it is now if they didn't have Reston and places like it footing the bill.

Such high taxes might make Oakton look a little less desirable when buying a house, thus lowering the price.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2008 06:03PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars? Get real. You are too funny, and entertaining. Bless your little heart simple-minded heart!

true Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Now when they take Oakton
> area and move to south lakes, these poor souls
> lost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

See Red Carpet posting above. SL already has many of those students.

Go Seahawks!!

not true Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL will never get these students. All the ruling
> has done is force these parents to move.
>

You don't want your kids going to public schools, but you will not pay for private schools? Poor folks bitching again.

Neen Junior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From where I sit (on the border of the 'woods'),
> the wonderful folks of Reston (South Lakes) went
> out of their way to welcome new families - they
> started laying out the Red Carpet last year. The
> bitterness was all on the other side, if you know
> what I mean, sweetie. But if you want to think
> that the good folks of Reston are gloating, you go
> right ahead. Why, double bless your poor little
> heart, honey.


Do you call hijacking children from their home school laying out the red carpet, sweetie? Why should SL be bitter, sweetie? They got what they want (at least for now). Their children get to stay put while others are uprooted. Yes, I imagine there are many in SLPTA gloating right now. In fact, your "bless your poor little heart, honey" sounds a lot like gloating to me. But what do you expect from the SLPTA? Keep the tone. It will certainly work for you sweetie.

Neen Junior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > So, in your little uptopian world, who would foot the bill (maintenance, policing, etc.) for all of the County-owned subsidized housing that was located in Reston over the years?< <

The same people who foot the bill for the public housing in the Town of Herndon, silly.

BTW, it ain't the Town!

ABTW, my namesake wrote Utopia. There's nothing "little" about it.

Oh, and I know Neen, Neen is an friend of mine, you're no Neen. Just a wanna be!

First, Reston gets to shoulder the majority of the affordable housings

Second, The county gets a big chunk of its tax revenue from Reston businesses and home owners.

All the contributions get no thanks but a cold "fix YOUR problems" first. Yeah right, People in Reston are all socialist left wing liberals, this is what we wanted.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reality is, as the population continues to
> grow, and the need for affordable housing grows
> too, the rest of the county will experience what
> Reston is already experiencing. If they think
> they can continue to live in their little enclaves
> forever, I think they are wrong.
>
> All this talk about Reston fixing "its own"
> problems first, well, we live in Fairfax County
> too, which gets all of our tax revenues and
> dispenses it all over the county. Reston should
> not be the only one dealing with a problem that
> is, essentially, the county's problem.
>
> And they are choosing to deal with it by looking
> at the SE numbers, as many other school districts
> are doing, because it works and the research is
> there to back it up. (See referenced articles
> from NY times a couple of pages back).

Well, public housing in Herndon is outside of the town limits of Herndon, so they would not foot the bill anyway. Nor would Herndon police those neighborhoods outside of the town limits of Herndon.

Thanks for making my point: the time for becoming a town is before stupid decisions are made, not after.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Junior Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > So, in your little uptopian world, who would
> foot the bill (maintenance, policing, etc.) for
> all of the County-owned subsidized housing that
> was located in Reston over the years?< <
>
> The same people who foot the bill for the public
> housing in the Town of Herndon, silly.
>
> BTW, it ain't the Town!
>
> ABTW, my namesake wrote Utopia. There's nothing
> "little" about it.
>
> Oh, and I know Neen, Neen is an friend of mine,
> you're no Neen. Just a wanna be!

True with businesses like Mid-Atlantic headquarters of Microsoft, Oracle, BAE, Sprint, SEMENS and many other GOV buildings, not to mention all the new businesses now in the Reston Town Center high raises, a "Town of Reston" would take a big chunk out of county taxes.

That's not even including the million dollar homes that would have to pay property taxes.

Humm town is sounding pretty good now. I was wrong, I guess I was thinking of the years before Reston got 10+ story office complexs.

Hell we could even build a new lake.

Go for it! Make it a town, run your own school - and leave us alone.

I understand the inequities in Reston having to shoulder the problems. But let's not lose sight of cause and effect. The reason that Reston is shouldering these burdens is not due to the aging of the housing stock and gentrification of surrounding areas; rather, it is by Reston's social design. Reston has more Section 8 and publicly subsidized housing than surrounding jurisdictions. All part of the Reston plan, and a nice idea in theory, but one that has turned out to impose negative externalities - some of them fairly significant. And note that these comments are not addressed at people who happen to be poor - there is a deadly entitlement mentality that frustratingly appears to correlate with public assistance - in the UK - it is referred to as the estate housing culture - and these programs end up imposing social costs well beyond just the mere cost of the voucher or subsidy, especially in areas of crime, policing, school resources and healthcare. We all do have some level of responsibility to others for these costs, but really, it is difficult to expect a raucous welcome from surrounding jurisdictions when these costs are a result of Reston's own planned choices. And it is all the more frustrating because Reston is not an ordinary planned community - as other posters point out - it is one with lots of money - yet money alone doesn't seem to be helping these social issues, and worse yet, may be in some way furthering them. Others may disagree with my statements here but at least Restonites should understand when others don't embrace the social costs of these programs so easily.

Quantum,
Actually, the aging population is real. Living in Reston and seeing the neighborhoods, my own eyes tell me that. Also, Reston doesn't get to keep the money we generate--the county takes it and redistributes it to the county schools. If we got all the money, we could have the best schools in the county. That's my point.

South Reston has more public housing than surrounding communities by design, but I think it is a bad design. As the need for affordable housing grows, other communities have to step up to the plate. The county bears responsbility for this too, not just Reston. They should know it's not a good idea to cluster so much affordable housing.

If North Reston were joined with South Reston at South Lakes too, we wouldn't be having this discussion. South Lakes would still have a higher FRL than surrounding schools, but the level would be bearable.

Also, I don't know why you would think that Restonites embrace these social costs anymore than anyone else. But we do realize that it is a shared burden that everyone has to bear, not just us. So, while I don't think anyone wants to be redistricted, and that it's not an ideal situatio, I don't get the venom that has come out of this. I really don't get people that think they can avoid it simply by where they live. The world is getting too small for that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2008 06:51PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

The problem is Quantum, that you are perhaps not fully enlightened on how some housing in Reston came to be. The housing owned by FFX County was not part of the plan. In exchange for placing the USGS in Reston, a move that benefited the entire surrounding community, not just Reston, the County was required to add a very large subsidized housing unit.

Me and the boyz cant wait to tear up that fresh white pussy in the fall!

You phony conservative mutherfuckers gonna be pro-choice when we get gone with little Hannah and little Madison!

Who came up with Reston's social design? The county, Robert E. Simon and other local politicians. The cause is the poor planning of the county, not the people living in Reston. The effect is Reston gets to shoulder the problems. You can't say you are on your own fixing YOUR problems because the county planned this just for your.

I bought in Reston because of its location, trees and close to work, not because I support the social design of Reston.


quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand the inequities in Reston having to
> shoulder the problems. But let's not lose sight
> of cause and effect. The reason that Reston is
> shouldering these burdens is not due to the aging
> of the housing stock and gentrification of
> surrounding areas; rather, it is by Reston's
> social design. Reston has more Section 8 and
> publicly subsidized housing than surrounding
> jurisdictions. All part of the Reston plan, and a
> nice idea in theory, but one that has turned out
> to impose negative externalities - some of them
> fairly significant. And note that these comments
> are not addressed at people who happen to be poor
> - there is a deadly entitlement mentality that
> frustratingly appears to correlate with public
> assistance - in the UK - it is referred to as the
> estate housing culture - and these programs end up
> imposing social costs well beyond just the mere
> cost of the voucher or subsidy, especially in
> areas of crime, policing, school resources and
> healthcare. We all do have some level of
> responsibility to others for these costs, but
> really, it is difficult to expect a raucous
> welcome from surrounding jurisdictions when these
> costs are a result of Reston's own planned
> choices. And it is all the more frustrating
> because Reston is not an ordinary planned
> community - as other posters point out - it is one
> with lots of money - yet money alone doesn't seem
> to be helping these social issues, and worse yet,
> may be in some way furthering them. Others may
> disagree with my statements here but at least
> Restonites should understand when others don't
> embrace the social costs of these programs so
> easily.

Schrodinger's Cat - Oh, I see..the feds promised a carrot - the USGS - and note to my knowledge the feds are not property tax payers - and in return Reston somehow agreed to take its chances with subsidized housing in the Glade area, now one of the few places where Fairfax County Police Officers must not go in alone at night? And we are all supposed to embrace this? Look, at some level I understand that good people were trying to solve an affordable housing problem - what they didn't do was examine what was going to happen - under the false assumption that somehow these residents would be readily infused with middle class values through some sort of osmosis. Maybe an honest mistake - maybe just utopia failed. Moreover, the USGS suggestion alone falls short of the mark - subsidized housing exists in a greater degree than in areas of Reston other than the Glade areas - again, that is by design. And while some may choose to live in Reston for its convenience, nature trails, community centers, its diversity, and the like - a choice I fully support - only the most naive among us fails to realize that there are significant social costs to Reston's housing and social policies, however derived. Some can look easily past them, others cannot - my point is that diversity of opinion in this regard should also be tolerated.

Note that the issue I have is not with housing that tends to be lower in price, but subsidized housing. That is what imposes social costs, because, as politically incorrect as it sounds, it brings with it with much of the deadly cultural dysfunction historically associated with inner city public housing projects. Academics even on the left of the political spectrum are realizing this - witness again the recent Atlantic Monthly article by Hannah Rosin correlating crime with 8a eligibility - and it is not happy news. And this circumstance puts a great deal of pressure on the middle to upper middle class citizens of a town like Reston - as any member of the South Lakes PTA can attest - they, along with the school, have had to work incredibly hard to shore up the court of public opinion. My own view is that while I respect this constituency for the bind they are in, they have been thinking far too myopically and need to find ways to attract excellence in ways that are very sensitive to the marketplace - including but not limited to AP courses, and really challenging approaches along the lines of KIPP for the other students. This path is most always the surest bet to non-transitory success.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Junior Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > So, in your little uptopian world, who would
> foot the bill (maintenance, policing, etc.) for
> all of the County-owned subsidized housing that
> was located in Reston over the years?< <
>
> The same people who foot the bill for the public
> housing in the Town of Herndon, silly.
>
> BTW, it ain't the Town!
>
> ABTW, my namesake wrote Utopia. There's nothing
> "little" about it.
>
> Oh, and I know Neen, Neen is an friend of mine,
> you're no Neen. Just a wanna be!

please tell me where the public housing is in Herndon.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Junior Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > So, in your little uptopian world, who would
> foot the bill (maintenance, policing, etc.) for
> all of the County-owned subsidized housing that
> was located in Reston over the years?< <
>
> The same people who foot the bill for the public
> housing in the Town of Herndon, silly.
>
> BTW, it ain't the Town!
>
> ABTW, my namesake wrote Utopia. There's nothing
> "little" about it.
>
> Oh, and I know Neen, Neen is an friend of mine,
> you're no Neen. Just a wanna be!

Thomas Moore knows Neen? Could be they are one and the same.

Quantum, you are correct. Reston is not a town. We are just another suburb strung together with all of the other suburbs of NoVA that are not towns. Likewise, South Lakes, even prior to redistricting, included many neighborhoods that are not part of the Reston Master Plan. IMHO, you are wrong, however, to think that subsidized housing in Reston is not your problem. Indeed, I think it is OUR problem and by our I mean Fairfax County's problem.

At a certain point in the development of this County, Fairfax planners decided that too much subsidized housing was clustered along the Route 1 corridor (also not a 'planned' community). Thus, they decided to place housing near the airport (Herndon Cluster along Alabama Ave - NOT part of a planned community) and Reston, near USGS - both job centers needing a large labor pool of service workers which the County literally had to import to the West. Neither Reston, nor the outskirts of Herndon, had much say in what happened with Stonegate apartments and units along Alabama Drive. In fact, these complexes were built when very little development had actually yet occurred and since Reston is not a town, there were no referenda put out to the public.

You may not know that the other subsidized housing complexes in Reston are much smaller, more manageable, and are surrounded by many different levels of housing stock. Additionally, and you should be happy to hear, the marketplace has dictated that many Section 8 vouchers were not renewed, which is a good thing for Reston and it's property owners, including apartment owners.

South Lakes and Reston have much to offer surrounding communities. In fact, I see folks from the outskirts of Reston and beyond working, shopping, eating, playing and exercising here every day. It is not the ghetto that you and some folks would like to make it out to be. In fact, most folks couldn't differentiate our 'low income' housing from regular rental housing, because it is not the cesspool that some are portraying.

Inasmuch as you seem to advocate insulating oneself from the lower elements of Fairfax, please remember that most living here chose to live in a suburb, not a town. They are all culpable, especially when they continue to vote for politicians that advocate for affordable housing, while displaying amazing NIMBYism. If they don't like it, the marketplace offers them many options (e.g., private schools).

This redistricting has really been a net positive for Reston. In addition to waking our community to the inequities between our community schools and those surrounding Reston, the utter contempt with which we are viewed by surrounding communities has been on full display. I gather that many have considered us to be overly generous saps. Don't be surprised if the folks in Reston decide that it is time for the burden to be shared. The scales have fallen from our eyes.

Neen Junior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, public housing in Herndon is outside of the town limits of Herndon . . .< <

When did Alabama Avenue get relocated outside the Town limits. The public housing is well inside the Town limits.

Have you ever actually been in Herndon?

Do you have a clue where the public housing is located?

Jeesh!

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Reston has more public housing than surrounding communities . . .< <

Actually Herndon has more public housing units than Reston. The Route 1 corridor has more than either.

The distribution of public housing in Fairfax is really a function of when the Feds funded or guarantee public housing projects and when a particular geographic area was developing. All of the public housing in Fairfax is of the same vintage.

> > If North Reston were joined with South Reston at South Lakes too, we wouldn't be having this discussion. South Lakes would still have a higher FRL than surrounding schools, but the level would be bearable.< <

If Armstrong and Aldrin had been added to SL, as proposed in option 4, SL would still have >20% FRM which according to a chart posted about 200 pages ago would have had no impact on academic achievement for FRL kids at SL. In order for that to happen FRM would have to fall below 15% and no option achieved that reduction.

If academic achievement of FRM is to be improved programs of Stuart and Richmond are going to be have to be implemented. Neither Gibson nor butler show interest in such action so we should have no reason to expect an improvemetn in FRM or ESL achievement.

It looks as if the RD was solely for cosmetic purposes, i.e., to get kids into the school to make it look better not to actually improve the school for FRM and ESL kids. Too bad, they need the help.

Schrodinger's Cat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum, you are correct. Reston is not a town.

Once agains Verity you don't know what you're writng about. By every measure, except politically, Reston is a city and has been since about 1985.

> > We are just another suburb strung together with all of the other suburbs of NoVA that are not towns.< <

Wrong again. Reston has had a unified comprehensive plan since 1965 with defined boundaries and its own zoning district. How can you be so ignorant of the history of the city you supposedly care about. Oh wait you don't care about Reston. Sorry I forgot.

> At a certain point in the development of this County, Fairfax planners decided that too much subsidized housing was clustered along the Route 1 corridor

All of the public housing was built with in the same decade.

> In fact, these complexes were built when very little development had actually yet occurred and since Reston is not a town,< <

When Stonegate was built Simon was on the verge of losing Reston to Gulf. Not only did that project fit in his vision of a community for all income groups but it kept him financially afloat.

> You may not know that the other subsidized housing complexes in Reston are much smaller, more manageable, and are surrounded by many different levels of housing stock.< <

The other complexes are not public housing but income restricted with some market units and some units rented to families with Section 8 ceertificates.

> > Additionally, and you should be happy to hear, the marketplace has dictated that many Section 8 vouchers were not renewed, which is a good thing for Reston and it's property owners, including apartment owners.< <

I'm sure snobs like you believe that but Mr. Simon doesn't.

The rest of the County needs to bear its share of low income housing hopefully it will be incorporated into the "smart growth" around the Metro stations in Tysons, Dun Loring and the EPG but it will never come to Great Falls, Vale or Henderson Roads.

What will make South Lakes the best school or Hughes?

SLHS Realtor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not over, we are having huge parties, parades
> in Reston. I hear Stu Gibson is going to do some
> dancing. Reston, not only do we place highest on
> every list in nation for the county, now we will
> have the best schools too. Reston always wins.