serious concerns Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Achievement Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Many people have been invited to visit South
> Lakes
> > and meet with Bruce Butler, But Madison folks
> > might want to visit Hughes and meet with Amy
> > Monticchio, the fabulous new principal there.
>
>
> I think its fair to say that many Madison folk are
> extremely concerned with the performance of
> Hughes, fabulous new principal or not.
>
> From the FCPS figures, if you back out the GT
> center scores, the performance is very worrying
> indeed.
>
> This is one of the reasons why it is so unfair
> that the Madison community has been singled out
> for redistricted at all three levels - it looks
> very much as if its to further prop up the Hughes
> scores, there doesn't seem to be any other
> supportable rationale.

I'd have to say that not busing right past another South Lakes school community to get to far-southern schools several more miles away is one rationale. That's how I'd want to save a few tax bucks.

AP vs IB Wrote:


> Not to throw out unjustified hope, but this summer
> more AP teacher training is being offered than I
> have ever seen before. It may be due to other
> reasons, and could be as simple as a new method of
> notifying teachers what is offered in the summer,
> but truly I have never seen so many offerings for
> potential AP teachers. Of course a teacher needs
> to have principal approval to sign up for that
> training, in other words teachers that have been
> asked to teach an AP course, or have requested to
> do so, will be getting the training. For those
> interested, perhaps asking Mr.Butler if he is
> sending any teachers to those training sessions
> would be most informative.

How interesting, particularly since all other summer programs are on the chopping block. Perhaps there is more training available because of the increase in students this year?

I agree, it would be very informative if Mr. Butler came forward and said how many teachers would be attending AP training this summer.

Can teachers be required to go to AP training? Can a teacher be required to teach AP or is it all voluntary? If a teacher doesn't want to switch from teaching IB to teaching AP, can anyone require them to do so?

Thanks for all the information that you provide.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Googlem Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I tried them with the names you provided and
> the
> > names previously provided. I also used the
> word
> > boundary here is what I got as they relate to
> news
> > coverage only for example Nick has hits under
> CAPs
> > site and Maria under SL PTA, those I did not
> > count:
> >
> > Nick Pesce 3 hits 1 WTOP, 1 Ffx Times 1 Post
> > Jay Frost 2 hits 1 observer 1 Ffx times
> > Lisa Capalbo 1 Connection
> > Stacy Gullette 1 Observer
> > John Halacy 1 Post
> > Henry Huang 0 hits
> > Cynthia Fry 1 Observer
> > Total 9 hits 7 Names
> >
> > Ericka 3 hits Observer,Post, NBC 4
> > Maria 6 hits Observer,Extra
> Examiner,Connection,
> > Connection, NBC 4, DC Examiner
> > Terry 4 hits 3 Connections and 1 Gazette
> > Caroline 2 Hits 1 Connection 1 Post
> > Total 15 Hits 4 people
> >
> > OVER EXPOSED that is all there is to it. Too
> many
> > quotes too few people this is the explanation
> for
> > why the Ffx Times reporter did not call you.
> By
> > the way all though last names were not used in
> > original post, I am pretty clear on what they
> are.
> > I left them off in order to ensure
> annonymity:)
> > Its the right thing to do.
>
> Are you saying that the press is getting many more
> quotes from those who support South Lakes, Stu
> Gibson, and IB? FOUR, pro South Lakes people are
> quoted more than all the others who opposed
> redistricting?
>
> Gee, why am I NOT surprised?

Neen, where have you been all day, we missed you.

Not quite, probably even split here.

Jay Frost was quoted on NBC, and there were several hits for Ms. Ramsey. So all in all, roughly even. Surpirsed now?

imabulldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, some South Lakes students started this group
> on Facebook in which they're signing a letter to
> the school board. The group description,
> containing the letter, is pasted below in
> quotation marks.
>
> "
> Please just add your name and then get out of the
> group (or stay). BUT PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS.
>
> Add your name to the wall.
>
> I am writing a letter to the School Board because,
> again, they want to vote AGAINST redistricting,
> which means we will still lose out and not get the
> same opportunities as other fcps schools. And some
> classes are being dropped because of it.
>
> "Dear School Board Members,
>
> Thank you for taking the time and trying to do the
> right thing.
>
> We had a culinary arts lab built for South Lakes,
> but since we do not have enough students the class
> is going to be dropped, just like some photography
> classes. Bottom line is: WE NEED STUDENTS ASAP,
> before 2 years when we're in college taking
> classes that we could've taken in high school, but
> did not have the opportunity to.
>
> Please give us the same chance as everyone else,
> then at least we can say we tried!
>
> And we hope that we do not have to stand before
> you (again) at another School Board Hearing.
>
> Thanks, and please do the right thing.
> Current South Lakes students,"
> Nisa Katz...
> (I need some more!)
>
> So, if you or anyone else would like to be added,
> I would be eternally grateful! And we NEED
> redistricting. So please pass this along to other
> Seahawks. Thanks."
>
>
>
>
> For anyone that has a Facebook, the group is
> called Seahawks, I need your help!
> I personally don't think this is going to do
> anything, unless they somehow get tons of
> signatures by tomorrow. They currently only have
> 23 members...
>
> I just found that interesting.
>
> Oh, there's also another Facebook group called
> Stop Redistricting in Fairfax County. It's been up
> for a while, and it has 1071 members.
>
>
>
> I am so scared for tomorrow. As is my younger
> brother, who will most likely be affected by all
> of this since he is an 8th grader.
>
> Is there still a good chance that they'll move
> current high school students, though? Particularly
> because of the new budget?


Bulldog, why so scared?

Why afraid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Bulldog, why so scared?


I'm scared for my brother, mostly. We've both been through redistricting before, and it was not pleasant the first time around, so we don't particularly want to encounter it again. I know there's a chance that I could possibly be redistricted along with him, but since he's most likely going to get affected while I only possibly will get affected is scary to me. I'm tired of being pulled and pushed into what is convenient for the county, and so is my brother, along with our friends. I completely understand why South Lakes needs more kids, but I think the county should take more time and consideration into this entire process before writing us off, yet again.

imabulldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why afraid Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Bulldog, why so scared?
>
>
> I'm scared for my brother, mostly. We've both been
> through redistricting before, and it was not
> pleasant the first time around, so we don't
> particularly want to encounter it again. I know
> there's a chance that I could possibly be
> redistricted along with him, but since he's most
> likely going to get affected while I only possibly
> will get affected is scary to me. I'm tired of
> being pulled and pushed into what is convenient
> for the county, and so is my brother, along with
> our friends. I completely understand why South
> Lakes needs more kids, but I think the county
> should take more time and consideration into this
> entire process before writing us off, yet again.

Ok, so then, how owuld you suggest that this get fixed then?

It's the Commute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> serious concerns Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Achievement Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Many people have been invited to visit South
> > Lakes
> > > and meet with Bruce Butler, But Madison folks
> > > might want to visit Hughes and meet with Amy
> > > Monticchio, the fabulous new principal there.
> >
> >
> > I think its fair to say that many Madison folk
> are
> > extremely concerned with the performance of
> > Hughes, fabulous new principal or not.
> >
> > From the FCPS figures, if you back out the GT
> > center scores, the performance is very worrying
> > indeed.
> >
> > This is one of the reasons why it is so unfair
> > that the Madison community has been singled out
> > for redistricted at all three levels - it looks
> > very much as if its to further prop up the
> Hughes
> > scores, there doesn't seem to be any other
> > supportable rationale.
>
> I'd have to say that not busing right past another
> South Lakes school community to get to
> far-southern schools several more miles away is
> one rationale. That's how I'd want to save a few
> tax bucks.

Has the MI ever been the same MI community ever since it was devloped and and all level of schools have not changed until this redistricting? When did these communities start in the MI area? I didnt know much about the history of MI until this redistricting fiasco came long. I am really surprised about Jane's behavior towards her MI people since I heard she's very loyal to her constituents.

imabulldog Wrote:
> I completely understand why South
> Lakes needs more kids...

I try to avoid responding posters who appear to be students, and I am not harassing you, but after all these posts I still do not "understand why South Lakes needs more kids." They already have more students than some other high schools in Fairfax County, and more than most high schools in the nation.

So why DO they need more students?

Why afraid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Ok, so then, how would you suggest that this get
> fixed then?


Well, the first thing I think the county needs to do is focus on the students already in South Lakes. If they're not meeting the standards that the county wants them to already, it makes no sense to move in high performing students into South Lakes -- it'd only hurt the low performing students more.
Also, they need to leave Westfield and Chantilly and Oakton alone because from their numbers, the population at those schools will be going down within the next few years, anyway, so it really makes no sense to try and do a quick fix at one school that is so vastly underpopulated that some of the schools the county would be taking from could wind up in that situation. Also, it seems kind of ridiculous to build a school that accommodates 3100 students after building a recent addition on to it and then having it drop by a couple hundred students within the next coming years (I'm talking about Westfield, that is). Langley's addition should not be added, though. I know it's been approved, but the county really needs to think twice on that whole issue before actually following through with it.
Coppermine ES needs to be built and factored into the situation before a final redistricting decision is made. With Coppermine being built, the county is going to have to redraw the elementary school borders for Floris and McNair. If these two elementary schools are redistricted tomorrow to different high schools, we're going to have to go through this process again.
Lastly, I don't understand why students at schools other than South Lakes are potentially being forced into that school -- we get absolutely no gain out of it. Especially if there is no AP program available there. I'm in French, and my teacher knows all about the IB program -- she went through it herself. I was asking her questions about it, and from what she told me, the students coming from AP schools would be ill prepared for the IB program.
So, in summary, just step back for now. Wait a couple of years if it really needs to be done. In the meantime, help out low performing South Lakes students.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
I try to avoid responding posters who appear to be students, and I am not harassing you, but after all these posts I still do not "understand why South Lakes needs more kids." They already have more students than some other high schools in Fairfax County, and more than most high schools in the nation.
> So why DO they need more students?

With the 50 million dollar addition they got, it seems like a waste of money to not accommodate them with more students. I don't think it needs to be done this quickly, though. The county needs to focus on the South Lakes students first, and then factor in other students over the years (probably from Reston, imagine that.) as needed.

And why don't you want to post with those we appear to be students? The rational ones won't blow up in your face or point their fingers at you for "harassing" them, they just want information and to hear other community members opinions. I posted on here in December and had good conversations with community members. I don't see why it's any different now?

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog Wrote:
> > I completely understand why South
> > Lakes needs more kids...
>
> I try to avoid responding posters who appear to be
> students, and I am not harassing you, but after
> all these posts I still do not "understand why
> South Lakes needs more kids." They already have
> more students than some other high schools in
> Fairfax County, and more than most high schools in
> the nation.
>
> So why DO they need more students?


Yes, they may have more students than SOME high schools, and they have a lot less than MOST.

And why do they need more - well, because for this reason of underenrollment, the range and quality of classes, and athletics and other after-school activities at SLHS cannot be offered as they are offered at Westfields, Chantilly and other much larger nearby schools.

imabulldog Wrote:
> With the 50 million dollar addition they got, it
> seems like a waste of money to not accommodate
> them with more students. ...
>
> And why don't you want to post with those we
> appear to be students? The rational ones won't
> blow up in your face or point their fingers at you
> for "harassing" them, they just want information
> and to hear other community members opinions. ...

As long as you don't mind when an elder points outs when you are illogical or wrong, so be it.

Renovation has nothing to do with adding more students upon completion of the renovation.

When SCSS opened, Hayfield LOST students about the time it was completing its renovation. With a capacity of 2,125, it had only 1,582 students on 30 Sep of this school year.

Overcrowded Woodson had more students re-districted IN just BEFORE its current renovation began. These new "Popes Head Road" students attended Oak View elementary, directly across the street from Robison. They live WEST of 123 and to get to Woodson they have to drive north past under-enrolled, IB Robison and then east past the same under-enrolled, IB Robinson to get to over-crowded, AP Woodson.

Another over-crowded school in need of renovation has students working very hard to get into it: Jefferson.

The point is: Spending money on a renovation has nothing to do with adding students.

If you want to worry about wasting money you should be advocating NOT to construct a new and totally unneeded middle school in south county; instead, move students out of SCSS and into under-enrolled and newly renovated and adjacent Lake Braddock and Hayfield.

Why more students Wrote:
> And why do they need more - well, because for this
> reason of underenrollment, the range and quality
> of classes, and athletics and other after-school
> activities at SLHS cannot be offered as they are
> offered at Westfields, Chantilly and other much
> larger nearby schools.

We are all still waiting for the list of courses South Lakes wants added. Have you missed all the posts advising you that South Lakes has a lower staffing ratio than those "larger nearby schools"?

If SLHS students want to start a club - who or what is stopping them?

As for athletics, FCPS went on the record as saying Westfield has too many people who want to watch its championship football team, and that at such a big school it is too hard to make the competition cheer squad.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog Wrote:
> > With the 50 million dollar addition they got,
> it
> > seems like a waste of money to not accommodate
> > them with more students. ...
> >
> > And why don't you want to post with those we
> > appear to be students? The rational ones won't
> > blow up in your face or point their fingers at
> you
> > for "harassing" them, they just want
> information
> > and to hear other community members opinions.
> ...
>
> As long as you don't mind when an elder points
> outs when you are illogical or wrong, so be it.

No, I don't. That's how people learn.

>
> Renovation has nothing to do with adding more
> students upon completion of the renovation.

I didn't say they needed to be added immediately upon the completion of the renovation. I said once the South Lakes students are looked at first, then put students into South Lakes over the years.

>
> When SCSS opened, Hayfield LOST students about the
> time it was completing its renovation. With a
> capacity of 2,125, it had only 1,582 students on
> 30 Sep of this school year.

The county redistricted them last year, I believe, correct? It was poor planning on the county's part for doing that, then. Again, there they go, throwing money out the window by redistricting.

>
> Overcrowded Woodson had more students
> re-districted IN just BEFORE its current
> renovation began. These new "Popes Head Road"
> students attended Oak View elementary, directly
> across the street from Robison. They live WEST of
> 123 and to get to Woodson they have to drive north
> past under-enrolled, IB Robison and then east past
> the same under-enrolled, IB Robinson to get to
> over-crowded, AP Woodson.

This just gives more of a reason to have a county wide study as opposed to narrowing it down to just South Lakes, then.

>
> Another over-crowded school in need of renovation
> has students working very hard to get into it:
> Jefferson.

TJ? Of course. I know they need it, but they're not being potentially forced into other districts just because some school was renovated, are they? They tested to get it, and regardless of their base school, they get to stay at TJ.

>
> The point is: Spending money on a renovation has
> nothing to do with adding students.

I agree. However, over the years, if they don't put more students into South Lakes, it seems like a waste of $50 million to me.
>
> If you want to worry about wasting money you
> should be advocating NOT to construct a new and
> totally unneeded middle school in south county;
> instead, move students out of SCSS and into
> under-enrolled and newly renovated and adjacent
> Lake Braddock and Hayfield.

Wasn't that issue dealt with last year with the county?

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for athletics, FCPS went on the record as
> saying Westfield has too many people who want to
> watch its championship football team, and that at
> such a big school it is too hard to make the
> competition cheer squad.

I go to Westfield. That game that the school board threw into the statistics at the first town hall meeting was actually a RIVAL game between Chantilly and Westfield. Last year, Chantilly beat us the first round at states, and this was the first game after that between the two schools that was going to take place. Explain to me how having a rival game and showing school pride is wrong to you.
As for the competition cheer squad, not many people go out for it anyway. Those who do usually make the team, whether it be varsity or JV. There are a handful of girls that don't make it. All the freshmen that try out get on their own squad.
Granted, trying out for soccer is hard. Other than that, I really don't know of any difficulty of getting involved with some sort of sport after school.

imabulldog Wrote:
> I go to Westfield. That game that the school board
> threw into the statistics at the first town hall
> meeting was actually a RIVAL game between
> Chantilly and Westfield. Last year, Chantilly beat
> us the first round at states, and this was the
> first game after that between the two schools that
> was going to take place. Explain to me how having
> a rival game and showing school pride is wrong to
> you.
> As for the competition cheer squad, not many
> people go out for it anyway. Those who do usually
> make the team, whether it be varsity or JV. There
> are a handful of girls that don't make it. All the
> freshmen that try out get on their own squad.
> Granted, trying out for soccer is hard. Other than
> that, I really don't know of any difficulty of
> getting involved with some sort of sport after
> school.

Don't take me wrong! I'm on YOUR side. Most schools, most communities, would LOVE to have "too many" people who want to come out to the Friday night high school football games. [Seems like somebody ought to make a TV show about this American past time. Call it "Friday Night Lights" or something like that.]

When we adults write it is "too hard to make the cheer squad" or refer to "jewelry making and guitar" we are mocking the ridiculous "reasons" FCPS used to "justify" this redistricting.

imabulldog Wrote:
> I didn't say they needed to be added immediately
> upon the completion of the renovation. ...
>
You and I and most other people agree that this particular redistricting should be put on hold for at least a year. Now if we can only get the School Board to vote our way this evening!
> >
> > When SCSS opened, Hayfield LOST students about the
> > time it was completing its renovation. With a
> > capacity of 2,125, it had only 1,582 students on
> > 30 Sep of this school year.
>
> The county redistricted them last year, I believe,
> correct? ...

NO, only a minor and "temporary" redistricting. Just last MONTH the School Board voted $2 million to start planning a new UNNEEDED new middle school. South county needs redistricting. It does NOT need a new middle school.
>
> ...This just gives more of a reason to have a county
> wide study as opposed to narrowing it down to just
> South Lakes, then.

I agree, as I have written repeatedly.
>
> ... However, over the years, if they don't
> put more students into South Lakes, it seems like
> a waste of $50 million to me.

Were you in South Lakes or Lake Braddock classrooms before they were renovated? In the 70's there was a fad to build schools with "open classrooms." Parents told them then it would not work. The result was as predicted: huge problems with noise, etc. It was a mistake to build Lake Braddock in 1971 with open classrooms; it is a scandal that in 1978 South Lakes was built with the same dumb concept.

That is why South Lakes, built SIXTEEN YEARS after Woodson, was renovated first. The Woodson building had sixteen more years of hard use. (People forget schools are not like, for example, churches. High schools are used about 18 hours a day, and by a lot of active teens.) Woodson was even hit by a couple tornadoes. It was in REALLY bad shape. (Did you see the boys bathrooms? The science labs?)

South Lakes did not need and did not get space for more students, but because of the "open classrooms" it DID need to be renovated.

I use the Jefferson example to point out students can get an outstanding education in an overcrowded building that is in need of renovation, but you are still missing my point: renovation has NOTHING to do with curriculum OR with redistricting.

Here is the article from the Washington Post posted this morning. Again what is the breakdown of the South Lakes students' races to date? The article mentioned that SL is the only school that the whites are not the majority. Back to the earlier posts about who made hits in the news, Castro was again mentioned in the article. Go figure.
Attachments:

imabulldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I go to Westfield. That game that the school board
> threw into the statistics at the first town hall
> meeting was actually a RIVAL game between
> Chantilly and Westfield. Last year, Chantilly beat
> us the first round at states, and this was the
> first game after that between the two schools that
> was going to take place. Explain to me how having
> a rival game and showing school pride is wrong to
> you.
> As for the competition cheer squad, not many
> people go out for it anyway. Those who do usually
> make the team, whether it be varsity or JV. There
> are a handful of girls that don't make it. All the
> freshmen that try out get on their own squad.
> Granted, trying out for soccer is hard. Other than
> that, I really don't know of any difficulty of
> getting involved with some sort of sport after
> school.

I, along with my Bulldog son, have made the same observations. The students and athletes with whom my son competes all have made the same observations as you, too. There has been no problem whatsoever for students who wish to compete on a team, or participate in a club or other extra-curricular activity.

Whoever on the School Board or on its staff who made the claim that there exists such a problem at Westfield is being deceptive. Theirs is a bogus argument.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I go to Westfield. That game that the school
> board
> > threw into the statistics at the first town
> hall
> > meeting was actually a RIVAL game between
> > Chantilly and Westfield. Last year, Chantilly
> beat
> > us the first round at states, and this was the
> > first game after that between the two schools
> that
> > was going to take place. Explain to me how
> having
> > a rival game and showing school pride is wrong
> to
> > you.
> > As for the competition cheer squad, not many
> > people go out for it anyway. Those who do
> usually
> > make the team, whether it be varsity or JV.
> There
> > are a handful of girls that don't make it. All
> the
> > freshmen that try out get on their own squad.
> > Granted, trying out for soccer is hard. Other
> than
> > that, I really don't know of any difficulty of
> > getting involved with some sort of sport after
> > school.
>
> I, along with my Bulldog son, have made the same
> observations. The students and athletes with whom
> my son competes all have made the same
> observations as you, too. There has been no
> problem whatsoever for students who wish to
> compete on a team, or participate in a club or
> other extra-curricular activity.
>
> Whoever on the School Board or on its staff who
> made the claim that there exists such a problem at
> Westfield is being deceptive. Theirs is a bogus
> argument.


Can we lay this issue to rest? It is not about athletics, it is not about overcrowding at Westfields.

The simple problem is kids from Floris are hogging the college admission slots at Westfields even though they are not from Sully district. Kathy Smith received complaints from her constituents and that is what this is all about.

Floris has always been the neglected child. First they move us from Oakton to Westfields because Westfields had to be populated. They did not let us build a high school when we had opportunity with RCMS. And now we are suffering. We have no representation period !!

Does anybody know what time the vote will be on T.V?

The meeting starts at 7 pm.

Not sure if this has already been posted. (from yesterdays's Times) My husband and I had trouble finishing our breakfast in our suburban manse, we were so racked with guilt. (anyone who has been to Fox Mill Estates knows how oppulent our homes are) To think that we were such intense bigots! We are so afraid of our children seeing minorities eat lunch! Please read this piece, but be warned, don't try to read it while you're eating.

Prejudice lurks behind boundary concerns
Printer-Friendly Email this Letter Post a Comment (0)

Submitted By: Pamela Abston
WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 27 2008

When I first learned of the west county boundary study, I yawned. It sounded like a mundane housekeeping task with which the School Board would dispatch quickly, resulting in nothing more disruptive than longer bus rides for some students. The educational benefits of relieving overcrowding at two schools and filling excess capacity at another seemed irrefutable. I had no idea that such an incontrovertible goal would stir so much angst.
How blind I was to the intense bigotry lurking in so many suburban manses. Like the brick veneer so sparingly placed on just the fronts of our otherwise vinyl-clad houses, the egalitarian, populist values of western Fairfax County are but a sham.

With astonishment, I have heard grown-ups unabashedly inveigh against boundary proposals that would increase their offspring’s exposure to the traumatizing sight of a child munching a free lunch in a shiny new cafeteria. The kid might have an IQ of 170 and be a model of responsible behavior, but his low household income makes him a frightening companion during a between-classes stroll through immaculate corridors.

The other fearsome datum that has been the cause of much hand-wringing is the percentage of children whose first language is not English. As with one’s need for a bit of help with lunch money, one’s recent entry into a new country apparently carries some sort of contagion. The method by which ignorance of English is allegedly transmitted to its native speakers is never intelligently explained, much less proved.

In truth, kids who speak and write their native English articulately, as they all should by ninth grade, receive no other effect from the physical proximity of speakers of foreign tongues than a richer understanding of general concepts of syntax.

After months of mean-spirited grousing, the focus has recently turned to curricular preferences. The innovative, rigorous, humanities-rich International Baccalaureate is decried as less enriching than a loose patchwork of Advanced Placement classes that is so common on freshman applications it draws yawns from admissions officers at elite universities. This opposition to IB is either based on misinformation or, more likely, a ruse brought forth to cover the increasingly transparent ugliness of the whine about the free-lunch eaters and Spanish speakers.

My child’s base schools are Herndon Middle and Herndon High. She attended Hughes Middle because of its gifted center, and I now send her to South Lakes because the IB diploma program is the closest thing I could find to a continuation of the gifted curriculum without subjecting her to the absurd commute to Thomas Jefferson. I agree with those parents who say that the gifted center program should extend through 12th grade, and housing it at South Lakes would provide continuity for alumni of the gifted center at Hughes.

As that’s not offered, I’m content with the intellectual and social development available at Reston’s splendid high school. My child has a diverse group of schoolmates – including poor kids of true brilliance and sterling character and ill-behaved slow learners of very high parental wealth. It’s one way for her to learn that intellect and privilege are utterly unrelated. Hearing adults argue over school boundaries is another.

Pamela Abston

Reston

"My child’s base schools are Herndon Middle and Herndon High. She attended Hughes Middle because of its gifted center, and I now send her to South Lakes because the IB diploma program is the closest thing I could find to a continuation of the gifted curriculum without subjecting her to the absurd commute to Thomas Jefferson."

I wonder if she applied to TJ. Also, I can understand that IB would appeal to some students more than TJ would, but they are very different programs, so to choose one over the other because of the commute seems to me to indicate, well, something weird. Doesn't bolster the writer's credibility anyway. Maybe my intense bigotry is impairing my understanding.

"I agree with those parents who say that the gifted center program should extend through 12th grade, and housing it at South Lakes would provide continuity for alumni of the gifted center at Hughes."

What does that mean? Is she saying that what is NOW at South Lakes doesn't provide continuity for GTC alums? Ah. Good to know.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is the article from the Washington Post
> posted this morning. Again what is the breakdown
> of the South Lakes students' races to date? The
> article mentioned that SL is the only school that
> the whites are not the majority. Back to the
> earlier posts about who made hits in the news,
> Castro was again mentioned in the article. Go
> figure.


SO WHAT? if Castro got quoted!

Overall, the article seemed balanced and presented both sides of the debate. There were in fact quotes from four people against RD,and two (including Ms. Castro's) in favor.

So STOP already, with this paranoia, about how SLHS PTA and those pro-RD are monopolizing the airwaves.

It is over all, roughly equally divided.

Both sides have valid points and I am sure we all want to do what we feel is right for our kids - but one can do it in a civil and respectful manner. No need to denigrate the other side, regardless of which side of the debate you stand on.

Since Pamela lives in Reston, has she ventured out and asked her neighbours why they chose not to send their kids to South Lakes? Or all her neighbours have aged?

It is easy to label anti-RD people racist and bigots. That conviniently hides why South Lakes suffers from under enrollment problem.

Balanced article Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here is the article from the Washington Post
> > posted this morning. Again what is the
> breakdown
> > of the South Lakes students' races to date?
> The
> > article mentioned that SL is the only school
> that
> > the whites are not the majority. Back to the
> > earlier posts about who made hits in the news,
> > Castro was again mentioned in the article. Go
> > figure.
>
>
> SO WHAT? if Castro got quoted!
>
> Overall, the article seemed balanced and presented
> both sides of the debate. There were in fact
> quotes from four people against RD,and two
> (including Ms. Castro's) in favor.
>
> So STOP already, with this paranoia, about how
> SLHS PTA and those pro-RD are monopolizing the
> airwaves.
>
> It is over all, roughly equally divided.
>
> Both sides have valid points and I am sure we all
> want to do what we feel is right for our kids -
> but one can do it in a civil and respectful
> manner. No need to denigrate the other side,
> regardless of which side of the debate you stand
> on.


You fail to understand why we have issues when Castro gets mentioned.

IT IS BECAUSE OF HER PETITION OF 500+ SIGNATURES (most of which were from Reston and South Lakes area) WHO WANTED TO GO TO SOUTH LAKES.

Reston Address - Herndon Pyramid! An Astronaut who obviously had a kid at Forest Edge GT center [ps the school Aldrin can't find on a map as parenst navigate around Baron Cameron], then Hughes GT center.

IB Diploma is like a high school GT center. Yes -I wonder how many other GT center astronauts are at South Lakes?



I'm so scared Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure if this has already been posted. (from
> yesterdays's Times) My husband and I had trouble
> finishing our breakfast in our suburban manse, we
> were so racked with guilt. (anyone who has been to
> Fox Mill Estates knows how oppulent our homes are)
> To think that we were such intense bigots! We are
> so afraid of our children seeing minorities eat
> lunch! Please read this piece, but be warned,
> don't try to read it while you're eating.
>
> Prejudice lurks behind boundary concerns
> Printer-Friendly Email this Letter Post a
> Comment (0)
>
> Submitted By: Pamela Abston
> WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 27 2008
>
> When I first learned of the west county boundary
> study, I yawned. It sounded like a mundane
> housekeeping task with which the School Board
> would dispatch quickly, resulting in nothing more
> disruptive than longer bus rides for some
> students. The educational benefits of relieving
> overcrowding at two schools and filling excess
> capacity at another seemed irrefutable. I had no
> idea that such an incontrovertible goal would stir
> so much angst.
> How blind I was to the intense bigotry lurking in
> so many suburban manses. Like the brick veneer so
> sparingly placed on just the fronts of our
> otherwise vinyl-clad houses, the egalitarian,
> populist values of western Fairfax County are but
> a sham.
>
> With astonishment, I have heard grown-ups
> unabashedly inveigh against boundary proposals
> that would increase their offspring’s exposure to
> the traumatizing sight of a child munching a free
> lunch in a shiny new cafeteria. The kid might have
> an IQ of 170 and be a model of responsible
> behavior, but his low household income makes him a
> frightening companion during a between-classes
> stroll through immaculate corridors.
>
> The other fearsome datum that has been the cause
> of much hand-wringing is the percentage of
> children whose first language is not English. As
> with one’s need for a bit of help with lunch
> money, one’s recent entry into a new country
> apparently carries some sort of contagion. The
> method by which ignorance of English is allegedly
> transmitted to its native speakers is never
> intelligently explained, much less proved.
>
> In truth, kids who speak and write their native
> English articulately, as they all should by ninth
> grade, receive no other effect from the physical
> proximity of speakers of foreign tongues than a
> richer understanding of general concepts of
> syntax.
>
> After months of mean-spirited grousing, the focus
> has recently turned to curricular preferences. The
> innovative, rigorous, humanities-rich
> International Baccalaureate is decried as less
> enriching than a loose patchwork of Advanced
> Placement classes that is so common on freshman
> applications it draws yawns from admissions
> officers at elite universities. This opposition to
> IB is either based on misinformation or, more
> likely, a ruse brought forth to cover the
> increasingly transparent ugliness of the whine
> about the free-lunch eaters and Spanish speakers.
>
>
> My child’s base schools are Herndon Middle and
> Herndon High. She attended Hughes Middle because
> of its gifted center, and I now send her to South
> Lakes because the IB diploma program is the
> closest thing I could find to a continuation of
> the gifted curriculum without subjecting her to
> the absurd commute to Thomas Jefferson. I agree
> with those parents who say that the gifted center
> program should extend through 12th grade, and
> housing it at South Lakes would provide continuity
> for alumni of the gifted center at Hughes.
>
> As that’s not offered, I’m content with the
> intellectual and social development available at
> Reston’s splendid high school. My child has a
> diverse group of schoolmates – including poor kids
> of true brilliance and sterling character and
> ill-behaved slow learners of very high parental
> wealth. It’s one way for her to learn that
> intellect and privilege are utterly unrelated.
> Hearing adults argue over school boundaries is
> another.
>
> Pamela Abston
>
> Reston

I think it's a HOOT that FairfaxCAPS is planning a celebration tomorrow night at Reston's Lake Ann Recreation Center. What, they can't find a COMMUNITY ROOM to call their own?? They have to go to the closest actual community they can find? And it's in RESTON?

Haw Haw Haw Haw Haw!!!!

'Supervisor Hudgins moved the reappointment of Ms. Pamela Abston as the Hunter Mill District Representative to the Community Action Advisory Board. Supervisor Hyland seconded the motion, which carried by unanimous vote." Taken from Fairfax County Government Website

Pam Abston is a Hunter Mill District appointee. An ally of Mr. Gibson's and an active Democrat.

She is entitled to her opinion piece in whatever paper that was written, but the game is just a little obvious.

Desperate times-desperate measures.

Community Haw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's a HOOT that FairfaxCAPS is planning a
> celebration tomorrow night at Reston's Lake Ann
> Recreation Center. What, they can't find a
> COMMUNITY ROOM to call their own?? They have to go
> to the closest actual community they can find? And
> it's in RESTON?
>
> Haw Haw Haw Haw Haw!!!!

I am glad to see that this not splitting the community together argument is so important - and that for this community-concerned and conscious neighborhood(s), CAPS cannot find a place in the Floris or FME area to hold the meeting.

Who is not leaving who alone now?

Balanced article Wrote:
> Overall, the article seemed balanced and presented
> both sides of the debate. ...
>
> Both sides have valid points and I am sure we all
> want to do what we feel is right for our kids -
> but one can do it in a civil and respectful
> manner. ...

Balanced? When the article neglects to mention how many of us are particularly concerned about the AP/IB issue?

When it neglects to mention the BIGGER "under-enrollment problem" in the south part of the county, yet the School Board just voted $2 million in planning to build another and unneeded middle school INSTEAD of redistricting?

When it states "parents of South Lakes students reminded the board that Fairfax tax dollars support all public schools and said that their school deserves equal resources" but neglects to point out South Lakes already has the fewest pupils per staff member of any of these six schools?

And as for being "civil and respectful" which side is it that routinely accuses the other of being racists?

Some community! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Community Haw Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think it's a HOOT that FairfaxCAPS is planning
> a
> > celebration tomorrow night at Reston's Lake Ann
> > Recreation Center. What, they can't find a
> > COMMUNITY ROOM to call their own?? They have to
> go
> > to the closest actual community they can find?
> And
> > it's in RESTON?
> >
> > Haw Haw Haw Haw Haw!!!!
>
> I am glad to see that this not splitting the
> community together argument is so important - and
> that for this community-concerned and conscious
> neighborhood(s), CAPS cannot find a place in the
> Floris or FME area to hold the meeting.
>
> Who is not leaving who alone now?

Yes, it is sort of ironic that the meeting will be in Reston. However, another way to look at it is that RESTON is clearly a community, and outsiders are clearly outsiders.

Just because Floris and Fox Mill don't have community centers means that we aren't community-concerned? That hurts my feelngs.

And what does that mean, "Who is not leaving who (sic) alone now?" We would love to leave you alone, trust me. You leave us alone (at our current schools) and we will leave you alone, deal?

Community Haw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's a HOOT that FairfaxCAPS is planning a
> celebration tomorrow night at Reston's Lake Ann
> Recreation Center. What, they can't find a
> COMMUNITY ROOM to call their own?? They have to go
> to the closest actual community they can find? And
> it's in RESTON?
>
> Haw Haw Haw Haw Haw!!!!

Ok I just read about the news of the CAPs meeting..note: it is a "after the vote" meeting, not a celebration. Not sure why they chose the Reston Lake Anne community center..maybe that center was free for them to use?? Since other community centers were booked??

> Prejudice lurks behind boundary concerns

> Pamela Abston
>
> Reston


When in doubt shout racism or bias against some group

GT center followed by IB diploma is not what people are worried about - its the poor performance of the overall school as shown by its FCPS figures

The primary issue has been performance, not ESOL, not FRL

Whether it works for elite GT-IB Diploma students has never been an issue

Jeez - do we have to start 'I was a poorer kid than you and have been more sucessful', 'my kid has more rounded friends than yours'?

Must be a full moon because they're all coming out

She has no credibility. She is Stu's stooge.

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She has no credibility. She is Stu's stooge.


Bullies, all of them. How dare the public question their pronouncements! How dare they look at the facts or have views!

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She has no credibility. She is Stu's stooge.

Okay, but things like this give the SB a chance to point to all the "support" for RD. I wish all the SB members would read this message board.

> Since Pamela lives in Reston, has she ventured out
> and asked her neighbours why they chose not to
> send their kids to South Lakes? Or all her
> neighbours have aged?
>
> It is easy to label anti-RD people racist and
> bigots. That conviniently hides why South Lakes
> suffers from under enrollment problem.

It is really not that easy to understand what your problems with South Lakes are. As a regular middle class white kid who lived in a single family home and attended South Lakes, I had ZERO problems at the school. My parents were not liberal democrats. They did not buy in Reston for its history. And they DID consider other schools for my siblings and I. Unlike you, they LISTENED to our neighbors and other people who were currently at South Lakes and realized that the rumors about the school were unfounded. I was able to go through high school as a tri-athlete, taking a couple IB classes, and maintaining an active social life and still get into the most selective of Virginia colleges. South Lakes is the secret gem of FCPS and it is unfortunate that you cannot see past statistics and that you think the social lessons to be learned at the school are a ploy that your children dont need to take part in.

I will give you two things:
-It sucks that your kids may attend two different schools
-The process was definately flawed

What I cannot respect you for was the first reactions to this study which then formed into whatever your complaints are today. It is hard to see your current issues as anything but secondary excuses when your first reactions were so blatent. See below:

"How would you like to bust your ass all your life to afford a house in a good neighborhood, and then have these leftist losers bus your kid to the hood to attend school with the offspring of a bunch of welfare queens?"

"I have already talked to realtors. I am willing to sell in a soft market just to get the hell out of here. My kids are not going to a slum of a school. I could do private, but we just want out. ASAP"

"And yes, you did waste four years of your life at South Lakes. My children should have gone there, but unlike your parents, I was concerned about my children's education and sent them to private school. And no, you aren't pimps, you are the hos. Your parents are the pimps."

"The girls that my daughter plays with in Fox Mill play with Barbie dolls, and are not allowed to play with Bratz. In conversations had with the parents, they all agree that Bratz dolls do not convey a positive message, rather they promote slutty clothing, and skanky behavior -- you don't see "Bling Bling Barbie." In the lower class areas, you predominantly see Bratz. In fact, the girls seem to friggin' worship those ridiculous dolls. You see seven year olds in bootie shorts and midriff exposing shirts. You see little girls in high heels. This may seem laughable, and it MAY BE laughable, but it's a small example of the different mentalities of people in diffent classes (for the most part.) I prefer my child to associate with children whose parents have similar beliefs."

All that and more can be found on this message board and were not made by obvious "trolls". South Lakes is not operating some vast conspiracy with the school board. Fortunately, the school board can see past your statistics and will do what is in the best interest of the schools. It will be a shame when you don't show up in the fall, but in a couple years time, Im sure that your neighbors will be able to tell you what a great school you missed out on and within a couple years, your neighborhood will be happy at South Lakes.

> Balanced article Wrote:
> > Overall, the article seemed balanced and
> presented
> > both sides of the debate. ...
> >
> > Both sides have valid points and I am sure we
> all
> > want to do what we feel is right for our kids -
> > but one can do it in a civil and respectful
> > manner. ...
>

How can an article be balanced when it accepts the lie that Westfield is over-crowded? The county's own numbers show that it is slightly over capacity and that it will be below capacity over the next year or so.

We have a high school and we are happy with it. We are being kicked out because some people whose kids WON'T have to change schools want it that way.

The SB and the media keep repeating the same lie over and over again, but it is still a lie.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Balanced article Wrote:
> > Overall, the article seemed balanced and
> presented
> > both sides of the debate. ...
> >
> > Both sides have valid points and I am sure we
> all
> > want to do what we feel is right for our kids -
> > but one can do it in a civil and respectful
> > manner. ...
>
> Balanced? When the article neglects to mention how
> many of us are particularly concerned about the
> AP/IB issue?
>
> When it neglects to mention the BIGGER
> "under-enrollment problem" in the south part of
> the county, yet the School Board just voted $2
> million in planning to build another and unneeded
> middle school INSTEAD of redistricting?
>
> When it states "parents of South Lakes students
> reminded the board that Fairfax tax dollars
> support all public schools and said that their
> school deserves equal resources" but neglects to
> point out South Lakes already has the fewest
> pupils per staff member of any of these six
> schools?
>
> And as for being "civil and respectful" which side
> is it that routinely accuses the other of being
> racists?


Man, one can't win with you! No matter what!

Here is a story that allows both sides to cawk, gives your side four sound bites, but still not enough.

No wonder we cannot collectively find a mutual ground.

I think it is said for ALL of us, not just us, and not just you.

kalyn Wrote:
> All that and more can be found on this message
> board and were not made by obvious "trolls". South
> Lakes is not operating some vast conspiracy with
> the school board. Fortunately, the school board
> can see past your statistics and will do what is
> in the best interest of the schools. It will be a
> shame when you don't show up in the fall, but in a
> couple years time, Im sure that your neighbors
> will be able to tell you what a great school you
> missed out on and within a couple years, your
> neighborhood will be happy at South Lakes.

Really, not a conspiracy??

Have you looked at the current option they are going to vote on. It comes directly from SL PTSA. They don't want to accept McNair because it is a title one school. It does not matter by plucking Floris out, they will make a funny map up north of kids going to Westfields.

Give me a break. And if you want to find kids to fill your school, take a peek at northern Reston.

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kalyn Wrote:
> > All that and more can be found on this message
> > board and were not made by obvious "trolls".
> South
> > Lakes is not operating some vast conspiracy
> with
> > the school board. Fortunately, the school board
> > can see past your statistics and will do what
> is
> > in the best interest of the schools. It will be
> a
> > shame when you don't show up in the fall, but in
> a
> > couple years time, Im sure that your neighbors
> > will be able to tell you what a great school
> you
> > missed out on and within a couple years, your
> > neighborhood will be happy at South Lakes.
>
> Really, not a conspiracy??
>
> Have you looked at the current option they are
> going to vote on. It comes directly from SL PTSA.
> They don't want to accept McNair because it is a
> title one school. It does not matter by plucking
> Floris out, they will make a funny map up north of
> kids going to Westfields.

How would adding another title I school to South Lakes be beneficial. It is PROVEN that the majority of these students do better when they are a lesser percentage of the population. What dont you get about that!

>
> Give me a break. And if you want to find kids to
> fill your school, take a peek at northern Reston.

I would love to have Aldrin and Armstrong at South Lakes. But the fact is, they are closer to Herndon geographically. Fox Mill is closest to South Lakes geographically. Sorry.

kalyn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It is really not that easy to understand what your
> problems with South Lakes are.

Well, here's how my Floris neighborhood went:

1. Oh no, they are going to move us again. Why us? Why again? Why didn't they build the North County High School?

2. Oh no, they send us to South Lakes - it has a bad reputation
- next thing you hear - "they said they would send all of Rachel Carson. Oh if they sent all of Carson, that would be ok. All my kid's friends go to Oakton."
- next "the principal's not so bad, and it would be a different school if all of Carson went there"

3. Oh look, the new CIP is out and Westfield is NOT going to be overcrowded, it is going to be under. YAAAY. We won't have to change schools

4. No, they still want to do it even though there is room for us at Westfield

5. Well, we'll have to send our kid with the community

6. What? They want to kick us out of Westfield because too many fans attended a big game? And the competition for cheerleaders is "fierce?" Is this some kind of a joke?

6. Have you looked at this IB program? This does not look like my kid at all. (ALOT of time spent looking at the IB program.)

7. Only half of our community is going. All of my kids' friends live on the other side of West Ox.

kalyn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> leave_us_alone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > kalyn Wrote:
> > > All that and more can be found on this
> message
> > > board and were not made by obvious "trolls".
> > South
> > > Lakes is not operating some vast conspiracy
> > with
> > > the school board. Fortunately, the school
> board
> > > can see past your statistics and will do what
> > is
> > > in the best interest of the schools. It will
> be
> > a
> > > shame when you don't show up in the fall, but
> in
> > a
> > > couple years time, Im sure that your
> neighbors
> > > will be able to tell you what a great school
> > you
> > > missed out on and within a couple years, your
> > > neighborhood will be happy at South Lakes.
> >
> > Really, not a conspiracy??
> >
> > Have you looked at the current option they are
> > going to vote on. It comes directly from SL
> PTSA.
> > They don't want to accept McNair because it is
> a
> > title one school. It does not matter by
> plucking
> > Floris out, they will make a funny map up north
> of
> > kids going to Westfields.
>
> How would adding another title I school to South
> Lakes be beneficial. It is PROVEN that the
> majority of these students do better when they are
> a lesser percentage of the population. What dont
> you get about that!
>
> >
> > Give me a break. And if you want to find kids
> to
> > fill your school, take a peek at northern
> Reston.
>
> I would love to have Aldrin and Armstrong at South
> Lakes. But the fact is, they are closer to Herndon
> geographically. Fox Mill is closest to South Lakes
> geographically. Sorry.


Nice posts, well done. and nice quotes.

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kalyn Wrote:
> > All that and more can be found on this message
> > board and were not made by obvious "trolls".
> South
> > Lakes is not operating some vast conspiracy
> with
> > the school board. Fortunately, the school board
> > can see past your statistics and will do what
> is
> > in the best interest of the schools. It will be
> a
> > shame when you don't show up in the fall, but in
> a
> > couple years time, Im sure that your neighbors
> > will be able to tell you what a great school
> you
> > missed out on and within a couple years, your
> > neighborhood will be happy at South Lakes.
>
> Really, not a conspiracy??
>
> Have you looked at the current option they are
> going to vote on. It comes directly from SL PTSA.
> They don't want to accept McNair because it is a
> title one school. It does not matter by plucking
> Floris out, they will make a funny map up north of
> kids going to Westfields.
>
> Give me a break. And if you want to find kids to
> fill your school, take a peek at northern Reston.

All you guys - you are right.

It is all a CONSPIRACY.

It is like pretty much the rest of the world, Stu Gibson, some or all of the school board, the SLHS PTA, the media, and everyone else you are blaming woke up one day and said, "we have nothing better else to do today, let's figure a way to screw these guys and communities because we are bored".

So that's how you poor souls are in the middle of this debate. Beacuse the whole world is against you.

kalyn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> leave_us_alone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > kalyn Wrote:
> > > All that and more can be found on this
> message
> > > board and were not made by obvious "trolls".
> > South
> > > Lakes is not operating some vast conspiracy
> > with
> > > the school board. Fortunately, the school
> board
> > > can see past your statistics and will do what
> > is
> > > in the best interest of the schools. It will
> be
> > a
> > > shame when you don't show up in the fall, but
> in
> > a
> > > couple years time, Im sure that your
> neighbors
> > > will be able to tell you what a great school
> > you
> > > missed out on and within a couple years, your
> > > neighborhood will be happy at South Lakes.
> >
> > Really, not a conspiracy??
> >
> > Have you looked at the current option they are
> > going to vote on. It comes directly from SL
> PTSA.
> > They don't want to accept McNair because it is
> a
> > title one school. It does not matter by
> plucking
> > Floris out, they will make a funny map up north
> of
> > kids going to Westfields.
>
> How would adding another title I school to South
> Lakes be beneficial. It is PROVEN that the
> majority of these students do better when they are
> a lesser percentage of the population. What dont
> you get about that!
>
> >
> > Give me a break. And if you want to find kids
> to
> > fill your school, take a peek at northern
> Reston.
>
> I would love to have Aldrin and Armstrong at South
> Lakes. But the fact is, they are closer to Herndon
> geographically. Fox Mill is closest to South Lakes
> geographically. Sorry.


But there are neighborhoods like Wyndham Hills (in Reston) that are MUCH MUCH closer geographically to SL than Langley. Sorry. (Isn't fairness important?? If they bend and break the rules now, aren't you concerned that it could one day happen to you?) Is it just the body count (obviously excluding Title 1 schools) that SL IB is interested in? Gosh, I just love that my son could be "filler" at SL. Sounds so appealing to me. We should all be rushing to grab on to this generous offer.

And not even a small carrot is offered. My husband and I would be happy to send our son to SL if it had a full AP curriculum. But, instead, the message appears to be: "Just shut up and take a seat."

kalyn Wrote:

> > Have you looked at the current option they are
> > going to vote on. It comes directly from SL
> PTSA.
> > They don't want to accept McNair because it is
> a
> > title one school. It does not matter by
> plucking
> > Floris out, they will make a funny map up north
> of
> > kids going to Westfields.
>
> How would adding another title I school to South
> Lakes be beneficial. It is PROVEN that the
> majority of these students do better when they are
> a lesser percentage of the population. What dont
> you get about that!
>
> >
> > Give me a break. And if you want to find kids
> to
> > fill your school, take a peek at northern
> Reston.
>
> I would love to have Aldrin and Armstrong at South
> Lakes. But the fact is, they are closer to Herndon
> geographically. Fox Mill is closest to South Lakes
> geographically. Sorry.


Since you did not address my first comment about option 5 being on SL PTSA, I think it is safe to say you are ok with that fact. If you want to debate that point, you are welcome to debate it. We have proof about it and it will be filed with the lawsuit.

About not including Aldrin and Armstrong, but including fox mill because of its proximity; where does that leave Floris. It will take us 35 min in morning rush hour to get to SL.

kalyn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> leave_us_alone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > kalyn Wrote:
> > > All that and more can be found on this
> message
> > > board and were not made by obvious "trolls".
> > South
> > > Lakes is not operating some vast conspiracy
> > with
> > > the school board. Fortunately, the school
> board
> > > can see past your statistics and will do what
> > is
> > > in the best interest of the schools. It will
> be
> > a
> > > shame when you don't show up in the fall, but
> in
> > a
> > > couple years time, Im sure that your
> neighbors
> > > will be able to tell you what a great school
> > you
> > > missed out on and within a couple years, your
> > > neighborhood will be happy at South Lakes.
> >
> > Really, not a conspiracy??
> >
> > Have you looked at the current option they are
> > going to vote on. It comes directly from SL
> PTSA.
> > They don't want to accept McNair because it is
> a
> > title one school. It does not matter by
> plucking
> > Floris out, they will make a funny map up north
> of
> > kids going to Westfields.
>
> How would adding another title I school to South
> Lakes be beneficial. It is PROVEN that the
> majority of these students do better when they are
> a lesser percentage of the population. What dont
> you get about that!
>
> >
> > Give me a break. And if you want to find kids
> to
> > fill your school, take a peek at northern
> Reston.
>
> I would love to have Aldrin and Armstrong at South
> Lakes. But the fact is, they are closer to Herndon
> geographically. Fox Mill is closest to South Lakes
> geographically. Sorry.

Aldrin is closer to SL..the fact that the boundary study was EXTREMLY FLAWED that Herndon could have given up at least ONE of the astroanut schools and if Langley was included which it SHOULD have, parts of the western portion of the Langley area could have gone to Herndon if Aldrin was sent to SL. Perhaps the McNair area could have gone to Herndon leaving Floris alone and Floris is closer to Westfield than McNair is. FM should have stayed with Oakton because Oakton is an enrollment balanced school. I swear some people on the SB should have seriously taken Geography classes and get the bingo in their heads instead of making illegal promises like to the northern Reston staying with Herndon..hint Stu.

kalyn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>rom under enrollment problem.
>
> It is really not that easy to understand what your
> problems with South Lakes are.

1. Performance
2. Performance
3. Performance
4. The active role of SLHS in annexing neighboring communities to fix 1,2 and 3 against their will from their existing school communities
5. Being accused of racism by SLHS teachers and parents for raising any objections
6. SLHS and the PTSA being complicit in such an appalling fiasco and playing the school yard bully
7. Refusing to face up to 1, 2 and 3 - yelling racism and attempting to mask the issue with warm bodies instead

No-one has anything against any of the students

Rather than arguing from anecdote read the FCPS performance stats comparing SLHS and madison

why is the SOL failure rate so high?
why is the SOL advanced pass rate so low?
why do so few students take SAT?
why are the mean SAT scores of those who do take SAT so low?

why all of this with 40% higher staff:student ratios?

Take a break and laugh:

The children had all been photographed, and the teacher was trying to persuade them each to buy a copy of the group picture. 'Just think how nice it will be to look at it when you are all grown up and say,'There's Jennifer, she's a lawyer,' or 'That's Michael, He's a doctor.' A small voice at the back of the room rang out, 'And there's the teacher, she's dead.'

problems with south lakes? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> why is the SOL failure rate so high?
> why is the SOL advanced pass rate so low?
> why do so few students take SAT?
> why are the mean SAT scores of those who do take
> SAT so low?
>
> why all of this with 40% higher staff:student
> ratios?

If any of the other schools had the same demographics as South Lakes, they would have the same numbers, if not worse. South Lakes' SAT scores are less than 100 points behind other schools and less than 30 points behind Westfield. It has nothing to do with the SCHOOL it has to do with the kids. Your children are not from low income, unsupportive families and will get the same scores as they would at any other high school. Why is that such a hard concept for you to grasp.

I am not going to weed through 2000 posts to see if this had been addressed but this morning's Post article avoided the dirty little secret here. There are a significant number of parents who do not want their children going to a school that is full of blacks and Latinos.

Great on-line comment about the article:

I have no sympathy for the Fox Mill residents, or any other residents who live closer to South Lakes than the current high school for their neighborhood. YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL. You think you are because you did all this "research" to find the school with the best reputation, lowest dropout rate (and probably lowest free-lunch ratio), etc. and now you're threatened with the possibility that all that careful planning was for naught. Boo frickin' hoo. It is incredibly short sighted to think that going to South Lakes will preclude your child from going to a good university. I went to JEB Stuart which, along with Falls Church HS, are the only high schools in all of Fairfax County that could possibly be called "ghetto". I received a fine education there because I chose challenging classes and I studied hard. I graduated in the top 5 of my class. I knew many students from my high school who attended high profile universities such as UVa, Duke, UNC, Columbia, and the military academies, to name a few. (I went to JMU, in case you're wondering, and I was also accepted at Mason, Syracuse and the University of Hartford). Your education is what you make of it, and the Fairfax County Public School system is considered to be one of the BEST in the country. Anyone attending a Fairfax County public school can get a first rate education, but it's not going to be handed to you on a silver platter - not even in tony districts such as Oakton and Langley. School districts are redrawn all the time as attendances increase and decrease at various schools. Quit whining about it, and instead focus your energies on elevating South Lakes to the level of Oakton and Langley. You will set a much better example for your children doing that than whining and complaining about the redistricting. If your children are smart enough to get into a high profile college, they will do so no matter what high school in Fairfax County they attend.

kalyn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Your children are not from low
> income, unsupportive families and will get the
> same scores as they would at any other high
> school. Why is that such a hard concept for you to
> grasp.


I don't buy it - I was from the architypical low income family

if other parents are unsupportive, that's why we pay taxes and support initiatives 40% higher staff:student ratios

when did it become other kids job to backfill for unsupportive parents?

Wash Post Article Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great on-line comment about the article:
>
>not even in tony districts such as
> Oakton

LOL - Oakton, the Beverly Hills of NoVA

oooookay.....

don't buy it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kalyn Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >Your children are not from low
> > income, unsupportive families and will get the
> > same scores as they would at any other high
> > school. Why is that such a hard concept for you
> to
> > grasp.
>
>
> I don't buy it - I was from the architypical low
> income family
>
> if other parents are unsupportive, that's why we
> pay taxes and support initiatives 40% higher
> staff:student ratios
>
> when did it become other kids job to backfill for
> unsupportive parents?


Not just other kids, but the "Chosen" other kids. They have to be filtered properly, not too rich because their parents have too much influence (north Reston), not from title 1 schools (McNair), pick them from middle class families whose parents have no time to resist this unjust treatment.

Class warfare if you ask me.

yep. oakton is the beverly hills of nova, and south lakes is the east LA.

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not just other kids, but the "Chosen" other kids.
> They have to be filtered properly, not too rich
> because their parents have too much influence
> (north Reston), not from title 1 schools (McNair),
> pick them from middle class families whose parents
> have no time to resist this unjust treatment.
>
> Class warfare if you ask me.


Yes, this is it. The SB will not do the correct thing - do a county wide study, fix all FCPS!!!

kalyn - you make some good points insofar as the anecdotal negatives that you cite really are not sound or probative reasons to reject or influence decisions about South Lakes High School.

But that still leaves: i) the points referenced by Problems with South Lakes open for discussion; and ii) the IB program, which despite the arguments on both sides of the coin, it not a good fit for a number of aspiring students.

As to item i), it is even more disturbing that we hear a constant drumbeat of just how great the schools are in the South Lakes pyramid. It would be better and far more credible for us to hear that there are problems (whether compared to other similar demographics in the County or the State) with significant elements in these schools and that the system is implementing those programs that have proven empirically sound to remediate them. The problem is, of course, that doing anything other than spin is hard for this bureaucracy (witness the precipice the County walked to in terms of score reporting for non-English speakers - they were for a time willing to put at risk millions of dollars for the pr benefit of not having to report negative results, even though reality is what it is). And the problem with mentioning the remedial programs is that the ones the County have chosen do not align with their progressive view of the world - the programs chosen by and large make it easier for social promotion but do not further true progress. Phonetic reading, traditional math with lots of memorization and the like - those things are not adopted, because they have failure rates along with their considerable successes and this system would prefer to gravitate to the easier good news solutions. So you see the problem for most is not with the anecdotal behavior you describe - it is accurate to describe them as a bit silly - but with the track record of the schools at issue and their credibility factor and hence the willingness of people to change from a status quo that, at least in Fairfax County terms, treats them reasonably well.

By the way, although I have no reason to question your subjective views that the school is a gem, the best way to persuade others to that is through a recitation of facts which self authenticate that proposition. So I am not sure that a recitation of anecdotes accomplishes your objective. And in any event, it is, like Pamela Abston's neo-Marxist screed, elliptical and fails to address the real issues. And you do have a challenge, because while statistics are not dispositive, they are not particularly helpful. Too bad you don't have three more years or so to make your case with a competent principal at the helm - the PC captains running the ship for years apparently did some significant harm for years - because if the school is trending in the right direction the data again could speak in a self-authenticating way without resort to a plea that the rest of us are somehow missing something - a dubious, but not entirely improbably circumstance in an efficient market of information.

Keep in mind that irrespective of these issues a number of smart and principled parents won't let these issues go so long as their self interest is involved. So the redistricting vote is really just a beginning - because like it or not this issue has energized people to what has been taking place in our schools, and there will be an intensity of concern not previously experienced - a good thing, frankly.

I am heartened to see that the majority of the comments from the Washington Post article are behind the South Lakes community. Looks like you guys truley are the vocal minority. Lets go 7pm! Be on the lookout for a SEAHAWK TERRITORY sign coming to a neighborhood near you!

Lets not jump on this one she is a Fairfax County-Hunter Mill District Appointee.

It is more of the same retoric, brought to you by another Hunter Mill District official.

Take it for what it is and move on.

At least you are honest, schmitta, and say what Fairfax CAPS really feels but is too afraid to say.

BTW, the School Board now knows that CAPS has the hubris to hold their pity party/victory rally at RESTON'S Community Center at Lake Anne. I thought one of their main arguments was that they don't feel a part of Reston and don't have access to Reston facilities. What's wrong with the MI or FM or Floris community centers? Oh yeah, they don't have one because they aren't really communities after all, just a bunch of neighborhoods strung together.

Quantum, put a sock in it.

Wash Post Article Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum, put a sock in it.


there you go, logic and reasoning to the last

And one more thing, Kalyn and others - as to credibility - I cannot imagine a design of a process worse than that adopted by the School Board here. The introduction of various "options" and the so-called discussions that were to take place over each of them was not a sincere information collection process; rather it was a rather poorly conducted political survey to discern which groups of parents with the most money and economic power were the most likely to put up the most fuss and frustrate the objective of grabbing more students. And while this of course disgusts many of a conservative bent, it really ought to outrage those of a progressive bent, because it caters to the exercise of wealth and power to which they so reflexively and frequently object. Put another way, it is entirely sensible to reject this redistricting based on the foolish process alone. For those looking for common ground, I would think there would be near universal agreement on this point.

We keep trying to tell you all that we are not part of the Reston community.

Thank you for recognizing that fact finally.

We are in fact just a bunch of neighborhoods strung together connected to communities outside of Restons limits.

Wash Post Article wrote:

"Oh yeah, they don't have one because they aren't really communities after all, just a bunch of neighborhoods strung together."

Look at it this way: Since Reston is a strong sensed community, why can't North and South Reston unite as ONE? You know...there's a Reston Lake Anne Community up north and there's a Reston Hunters Woods Community down south...make it as ONE entire community and throw the astronaut schools in the community!

Baffled

The north Reston communities are not part of this discussion. Strauss and Stu have an agreementm, because taking the north Reston communities out of Herndon High will really hurt Herndon High. If you ask me, Aldrin and Armstrong go to South Lakes, and if that affects Herndon High, then send Floris and McNair to Herndon High. That will be the just way.

Why would CAPS want to claim victory on our own turf? It's being held in Reston to mock you.

The Art of War.

....... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> leave_us_alone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not just other kids, but the "Chosen" other
> kids.
> > They have to be filtered properly, not too rich
> > because their parents have too much influence
> > (north Reston), not from title 1 schools
> (McNair),
> > pick them from middle class families whose
> parents
> > have no time to resist this unjust treatment.
> >
> > Class warfare if you ask me.
>
>
> Yes, this is it. The SB will not do the correct
> thing - do a county wide study, fix all FCPS!!!


Yes, while there are some inequities in FCPS, and which our elected officials are attempting to fix, there is not all that much wrong with this whole school system which is one of the best in the US. so quit whining!

To quote-Yes, while there are some inequities in FCPS, and which our elected officials are attempting to fix, there is not all that much wrong with this whole school system which is one of the best in the US. so quit whining!

We would suggest that you all stop WHINING. You have a $63m dollar improvement and a wonderful new Principal. If it werent for your whining and demanding yet another favor you would never hear a word from us.

%%%%%% Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To quote-Yes, while there are some inequities in
> FCPS, and which our elected officials are
> attempting to fix, there is not all that much
> wrong with this whole school system which is one
> of the best in the US. so quit whining!
>
> We would suggest that you all stop WHINING. You
> have a $63m dollar improvement and a wonderful new
> Principal. If it werent for your whining and
> demanding yet another favor you would never hear a
> word from us.


but but but

Not enough programs ....

Not enough electives ...

Not enough students ...

Herndon High won't let go of Aldrin ...

We can't get North Reston participation ...

blah blah blah

I have to say I don't like this self-complacent attitude. And to be frank, I hear similar type of comments from a corporate -- like 'we are the best/biggest in the industry...', more often than not, the company is not too far from sliding into trouble.

If we keep thinking we are the best while hiding from facing and solving the real issues, I can see FCPS's fame sliding. Already, it's not just a rumor that FCPS is losing some best teachers to Loudon.

Keep sleeping in your utopia and singing SLHS is the best, best, everything will be fine. Good luck.

%%%%%% Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To quote-Yes, while there are some inequities in
> FCPS, and which our elected officials are
> attempting to fix, there is not all that much
> wrong with this whole school system which is one
> of the best in the US. so quit whining!
>
> We would suggest that you all stop WHINING. You
> have a $63m dollar improvement and a wonderful new
> Principal. If it werent for your whining and
> demanding yet another favor you would never hear a
> word from us.


Yup, another favor, to let some of these kids have access to the same wonderful opportunities as many of you have had for so long.

Thank goodness for you kind souls' graciousness and compassion to grant us all these favors, how kind of you.

We are so grateful and indebted.

Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to beg and grovel for these favors.

Wash Post Article Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great on-line comment about the article:
>
> I have no sympathy for the Fox Mill residents, or
> any other residents who live closer to South Lakes
> than the current high school for their
> neighborhood. YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL. You think you
> are because you did all this "research" to find
> the school with the best reputation, lowest
> dropout rate (and probably lowest free-lunch
> ratio), etc. and now you're threatened with the
> possibility that all that careful planning was for
> naught. Boo frickin' hoo. It is incredibly short
> sighted to think that going to South Lakes will
> preclude your child from going to a good
> university. I went to JEB Stuart which, along with
> Falls Church HS, are the only high schools in all
> of Fairfax County that could possibly be called
> "ghetto". I received a fine education there
> because I chose challenging classes and I studied
> hard. I graduated in the top 5 of my class. I knew
> many students from my high school who attended
> high profile universities such as UVa, Duke, UNC,
> Columbia, and the military academies, to name a
> few. (I went to JMU, in case you're wondering, and
> I was also accepted at Mason, Syracuse and the
> University of Hartford). Your education is what
> you make of it, and the Fairfax County Public
> School system is considered to be one of the BEST
> in the country. Anyone attending a Fairfax County
> public school can get a first rate education, but
> it's not going to be handed to you on a silver
> platter - not even in tony districts such as
> Oakton and Langley. School districts are redrawn
> all the time as attendances increase and decrease
> at various schools. Quit whining about it, and
> instead focus your energies on elevating South
> Lakes to the level of Oakton and Langley. You will
> set a much better example for your children doing
> that than whining and complaining about the
> redistricting. If your children are smart enough
> to get into a high profile college, they will do
> so no matter what high school in Fairfax County
> they attend.


thank you

> Yup, another favor, to let some of these kids have
> access to the same wonderful opportunities as many
> of you have had for so long.
>

Can you spell out which opportunities your kids don't have. I bet you that has something to do with the IB program sucking up all your resources. Has FCPS done any study to find out why enrollment is declining? ahh ... I forgot it is the aging population.

Yup, another favor, to let some of these kids have access to the same wonderful opportunities as many of you have had for so long.

Thank goodness for you kind souls' graciousness and compassion to grant us all these favors, how kind of you.

We are so grateful and indebted.

Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to beg and grovel for these favors.


Give me a break. You dont grovel you DEMAND. You believe you are entitled to more more more. What is it that the other schools in the West Co. Study have that you do not? Other than of course a state of the art facility? South Lakes makes the School Board offices look like a dump. You are too much!

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wash Post Article wrote:
>
> "Oh yeah, they don't have one because they aren't
> really communities after all, just a bunch of
> neighborhoods strung together."
>
> Look at it this way: Since Reston is a strong
> sensed community, why can't North and South Reston
> unite as ONE? You know...there's a Reston Lake
> Anne Community up north and there's a Reston
> Hunters Woods Community down south...make it as
> ONE entire community and throw the astronaut
> schools in the community!


Ok by me - no issue here

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen:

I put forth to you that it is much easier to sling bows and arrows at outrageous fortune when you are sitting in front of a computer, when the sum of group angst exceeds that of individuals, and when you are facing a change of any kind.

When we all meet face to face after tonight, I think we are far more likely to be civil and even friendly. I, for one, am glad that FairfaxCAPs is meeting at Lake Ann because Reston really IS a nexus of community that extends far beyond Small Tax District #5.

Whatever happens tonight, we must all remember that we are residents of Fairfax County, Virginia. A vibrant, alive, economically stable, desirable, culturally diverse and culturally exciting community with outstanding schools for all its 165,000 students. That we are all in this county together, each of us contributing to its success. That when we shop and drive and attend community functions, we're doing it alongside strangers and friends who wake up every day probably wanting to do some little good in the world today -- for themselves, their families, their communities, their country.

There is so much we can agree on! We love our children. We care not just about ourselves, but also about our neighbors here and farther afield.

Whatever happens tonight, I hope we can work together to continue making this one of the best places in the world to live, work, and raise a family.

Principal X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not going to weed through 2000 posts to see
> if this had been addressed but this morning's Post
> article avoided the dirty little secret here.
> There are a significant number of parents who do
> not want their children going to a school that is
> full of blacks and Latinos.


That would seem to be the case. All - not all, but most - of the talk about IB, busing, community togetherness, or whatever, seems to be a means to conceal the ugliness of people's beliefs. Of course, some people don't conceal it - they come right out and admit to racist beliefs. And oddly enough, that's more honest than hiding behind other issues.

Phony, hypocritical, mean people abound. Fortunately there are plenty of honest and good people out there. But not enough. Sounds kinda like the environment I remember in FCPS high school back in the day.

%%%%% Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yup, another favor, to let some of these kids have
> access to the same wonderful opportunities as many
> of you have had for so long.
>
> Thank goodness for you kind souls' graciousness
> and compassion to grant us all these favors, how
> kind of you.
>
> We are so grateful and indebted.
>
> Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to beg
> and grovel for these favors.
>
>
> Give me a break. You dont grovel you DEMAND. You
> believe you are entitled to more more more. What
> is it that the other schools in the West Co. Study
> have that you do not? Other than of course a
> state of the art facility? South Lakes makes the
> School Board offices look like a dump. You are
> too much!


Been giving you a break all along, that is the issue.

"If you want choice, you have to go and send your child to a private
school...there is no entitlement in a public school system and just
because you move to that area does not mean you get to attend that
school in perpetuity."

> Been giving you a break all along, that is the
> issue.
>
> "If you want choice, you have to go and send your
> child to a private
> school...there is no entitlement in a public
> school system and just
> because you move to that area does not mean you
> get to attend that
> school in perpetuity."


ahh ... Brave little words.

We asked you about what you need at South Lakes and this is what you come back with.

You have one thing and only one thing going for you. Stu Gibson is on your side. You have nothing else. Thats why you get to shop and choose warm bodies.

Real bravery.

Not as much wrong with FCPS as u thin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Been giving you a break all along, that is the
> issue.
>
> "If you want choice, you have to go and send your
> child to a private
> school...there is no entitlement in a public
> school system and just
> because you move to that area does not mean you
> get to attend that
> school in perpetuity."

There's no reason why any school in FCPS can't perform as well as Langley - but frankly they don't and there's no excuse

Redistricting into lower performing schools is never the solution

Its not about entitlement - its about high expectations and not just hiding problems

Its been said over and over again, if you fix SLHS, people will come banging on the door. Forcing families to leave their existing communities to cover over the cracks is an admission of failure and an abandonment of the high expectations of FFX citizens

If you want choice, you have to go and send your child to a private
school-


Okay. I recognize my options, pupil placement or private school. I am not the one complaining about choices. You are. You are the one complaining that your school needs more more more. You are the one asking that other students be forced to move out of their schools into YOUR school so that you can have what you want. WHy dont you go private?

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Been giving you a break all along, that is the
> > issue.
> >
> > "If you want choice, you have to go and send
> your
> > child to a private
> > school...there is no entitlement in a public
> > school system and just
> > because you move to that area does not mean you
> > get to attend that
> > school in perpetuity."
>
>
> ahh ... Brave little words.
>
> We asked you about what you need at South Lakes
> and this is what you come back with.
>
> You have one thing and only one thing going for
> you. Stu Gibson is on your side. You have nothing
> else. Thats why you get to shop and choose warm
> bodies.
>
> Real bravery.


By the way, that was not my comment, and not even your favorite public enemy number #1, Stuie. That was a quote from Liz Bradsher.

And here is one more from the paper: Some SB members also said they were offended by people who seemed to express ownership over their school or felt they were
entitled to attend one over another.

And what we need - is the same kind of access to the same range of scholastic, athletic and extracurricular activities that other in the great FCPS school system can have and so that their classes or sections will not be cancelled because thera are not enough kids taking them. Tha's what we need.

What you need is AP.

%%%%% Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want choice, you have to go and send your
> child to a private
> school-
>
>
> Okay. I recognize my options, pupil placement or
> private school. I am not the one complaining
> about choices. You are. You are the one
> complaining that your school needs more more more.
> You are the one asking that other students be
> forced to move out of their schools into YOUR
> school so that you can have what you want. WHy
> dont you go private?


It's not just what I want, it's what you also want - the only difference is that your kids are getting it. Mine and others like them are not.

%%%%% Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What you need is AP.


And if we had it, then I would love to welcome your kids to SL, along with everyone else whose only beef is AP vs IB. Peace.

Not as much wrong with FCPS as u thin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> %%%%% Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you want choice, you have to go and send
> your
> > child to a private
> > school-
> >
> >
> > Okay. I recognize my options, pupil placement
> or
> > private school. I am not the one complaining
> > about choices. You are. You are the one
> > complaining that your school needs more more
> more.
> > You are the one asking that other students be
> > forced to move out of their schools into YOUR
> > school so that you can have what you want. WHy
> > dont you go private?
>
>
> It's not just what I want, it's what you also want
> - the only difference is that your kids are
> getting it. Mine and others like them are not.

Now we are getting somewhere (if you look at my post, I told you it will have something to do with IB). So you want AP!! The way I see it, there are 2 ways to get this,

1) Kick out IB and implement AP. This is very hard to do as you have to fight against the establishment that is fiercely going to protect their turf. If you think the warm bodies and their parents will make a difference forget it. It is a long drawn battle and by the time you initiate and make progress towards it, your kids will be out of High school.

2)Pupil place out. Many Restonians are already doing it.

Does it make sense to cause so much upheaval when all the kids who want AP in South Lakes can just be pupil place out.

annoyed with oak hill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's not forget the Oak Hill community that has
> sold the Navy community under the bus time and
> time again. They publically announced "hooray"
> for the option to move us to Oakton and they stay
> at Chantilly. Shame on them for their vile
> behavior and willingness to endorse such a flawed
> idea to send us 8 miles in the opposite direction.
>
>
> >
> > When Herndon PTA thought they might lose the
> > astronauts in the RD, they cared a lot. The
> fact
> > that people applaud an activity that doesn't
> > affect them directly--but hurts others in the
> > community--is nothing for those groups to be
> proud
> > of. The fact that Herndon PTA supports the
> > current plan says a lot about the Herndon
> PTA--and
> > it's not good. (And, for the record, I an a Fox
> > Mill parent (anti RD) and I did NOT support
> moving
> > the astronauts in the orig option 4, even
> though
> > it kept FM at Oakton.



Wouldn't have happened if everyone was working TOGETHER with CAPS instead of at the mindless whim of their school board member who appeared to have successfully yanked the puppet strings.

Not as much wrong with FCPS as u thin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> "If you want choice, you have to go and send your
> child to a private
> school...


The now classic Liz Bradsher stalinist quote from http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=93999&paper=73&cat=104

to paraphrase "This is what you get - if you don't like it - sc*w you"

I liked Stu's comments

...School Board member Stu Gibson (Hunter Mill), whose daughter graduated from South Lakes, said analogies made by the community to being "thrown under the bus" if they are moved to the South Lakes attendance area offended him...

Should have suggested to Herndon PTA that they not throw their neighbors under the bus by doing a 180 when they saw a way out then

what are your kids not getting? I really want to know. We have looked at the course comparisons and cant see the differences other than the issues of IB vs AP. Is there something specific that your child is not getting that you could share with us?

I am asking sincerely.

Not as much wrong with FCPS as u thin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> %%%%% Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What you need is AP.
>
>
> And if we had it, then I would love to welcome
> your kids to SL, along with everyone else whose
> only beef is AP vs IB. Peace.


Well why didn't you say so in first place. See we have a common goal, we want AP for our kids.

But I sincerely feel the way you are going about doing this, is not the right way. We have long proposed that lets form a joint citizen task force to figure our what the problem is at SL and try and fix it. It does not have to be this way, seriously.

Achievement - platitudes won't cut it. There can be common ground, but it must be accompanied by a commitment to do things better - as concretely as possible. And I agree that discussions must be civil - but there is a tremendous amount of fatigue with mere platitudes - and of the liberal shibboleths pertaining to diversity and holistic looks at people. Quality of education that can be objectively measured is what matters, particularly in a globally competitive knowledge based economy. Acknowledge what is done well, be open and honest about the deficiencies, and adopt a market based approach to being and becoming more competitive. Everything else is relatively small potatoes.

And to the notion that there is no concept of choice in the public schools - of course there is - even within the mostly monopolistic system known as FCPS. People can and do exercise choices - and in any event school choice will continue to be more an issue which exerts more, and not less, influence on the politics of public schools. To cast the issue as %%%% does of put up or shut up or go private one is both simplistic and contrary to the facts as they exist today. And while I agree that there is no entitlement in a public school system as large as FCPS, that doesn't mean people won't vigorously exercise choices, both within and without the system - and they won't dispense easily with the benefits gained with the status - no amount of re-districting will make that disappear.

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not as much wrong with FCPS as u thin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > %%%%% Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If you want choice, you have to go and send
> > your
> > > child to a private
> > > school-
> > >
> > >
> > > Okay. I recognize my options, pupil
> placement
> > or
> > > private school. I am not the one complaining
> > > about choices. You are. You are the one
> > > complaining that your school needs more more
> > more.
> > > You are the one asking that other students be
> > > forced to move out of their schools into YOUR
> > > school so that you can have what you want.
> WHy
> > > dont you go private?
> >
> >
> > It's not just what I want, it's what you also
> want
> > - the only difference is that your kids are
> > getting it. Mine and others like them are not.
>
> Now we are getting somewhere (if you look at my
> post, I told you it will have something to do with
> IB). So you want AP!! The way I see it, there are
> 2 ways to get this,
>
> 1) Kick out IB and implement AP. This is very
> hard to do as you have to fight against the
> establishment that is fiercely going to protect
> their turf. If you think the warm bodies and
> their parents will make a difference forget it.
> It is a long drawn battle and by the time you
> initiate and make progress towards it, your kids
> will be out of High school.
>
> 2)Pupil place out. Many Restonians are already
> doing it.
>
> Does it make sense to cause so much upheaval when
> all the kids who want AP in South Lakes can just
> be pupil place out.


Ok, so I am watching all this commotion, but at the end of the day, if AP is the reason people don't want to go to South Lakes, then they can pupil place, right?

So why can't redistricting pass, those in the moved communities whatever they end up being, if they don't care about IB or AP will go to South Lakes, those that care go to one of the other schools, and life goes on.

South Lakes gets some more kids (maybe not get whole complement), the AP crowd gets to keep what they have (maybe they have to worry about transport), and in the end, everyone gives a little bit and gets a bit.

Maybe it's not totally perfect, in these kind of debates, you cannot please everyone, but you do not leave complete constituencies totally unhappy depending on the outcome - so I guess I am saying right now the way the debate is going, it seems like for one side to win, the other has to lose totally.

So what's the big deal? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> leave_us_alone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not as much wrong with FCPS as u thin Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > %%%%% Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > If you want choice, you have to go and send
> > > your
> > > > child to a private
> > > > school-
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Okay. I recognize my options, pupil
> > placement
> > > or
> > > > private school. I am not the one
> complaining
> > > > about choices. You are. You are the one
> > > > complaining that your school needs more
> more
> > > more.
> > > > You are the one asking that other students
> be
> > > > forced to move out of their schools into
> YOUR
> > > > school so that you can have what you want.
> > WHy
> > > > dont you go private?
> > >
> > >
> > > It's not just what I want, it's what you also
> > want
> > > - the only difference is that your kids are
> > > getting it. Mine and others like them are
> not.
> >
> > Now we are getting somewhere (if you look at my
> > post, I told you it will have something to do
> with
> > IB). So you want AP!! The way I see it, there
> are
> > 2 ways to get this,
> >
> > 1) Kick out IB and implement AP. This is very
> > hard to do as you have to fight against the
> > establishment that is fiercely going to protect
> > their turf. If you think the warm bodies and
> > their parents will make a difference forget it.
>
> > It is a long drawn battle and by the time you
> > initiate and make progress towards it, your
> kids
> > will be out of High school.
> >
> > 2)Pupil place out. Many Restonians are already
> > doing it.
> >
> > Does it make sense to cause so much upheaval
> when
> > all the kids who want AP in South Lakes can
> just
> > be pupil place out.
>
>
> Ok, so I am watching all this commotion, but at
> the end of the day, if AP is the reason people
> don't want to go to South Lakes, then they can
> pupil place, right?
>
> So why can't redistricting pass, those in the
> moved communities whatever they end up being, if
> they don't care about IB or AP will go to South
> Lakes, those that care go to one of the other
> schools, and life goes on.
>
> South Lakes gets some more kids (maybe not get
> whole complement), the AP crowd gets to keep what
> they have (maybe they have to worry about
> transport), and in the end, everyone gives a
> little bit and gets a bit.
>
> Maybe it's not totally perfect, in these kind of
> debates, you cannot please everyone, but you do
> not leave complete constituencies totally unhappy
> depending on the outcome - so I guess I am saying
> right now the way the debate is going, it seems
> like for one side to win, the other has to lose
> totally.


Looking at it from simple mathematics point of you, what makes more sense,

People living in Reston area going to SL want AP and pupil place out.

or

You redistrict and 60% or more (I am talking about Floris, we have given a petition of 43 students out of 69) pupil place out. Can you imagine how much it will overload the system.

Please answer with a open mind. This way you also get to keep IB at south lakes which many parents want for their children.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Achievement - platitudes won't cut it. There can
> be common ground, but it must be accompanied by a
> commitment to do things better - as concretely as
> possible. And I agree that discussions must be
> civil - but there is a tremendous amount of
> fatigue with mere platitudes - and of the liberal
> shibboleths pertaining to diversity and holistic
> looks at people. Quality of education that can be
> objectively measured is what matters, particularly
> in a globally competitive knowledge based economy.
> Acknowledge what is done well, be open and honest
> about the deficiencies, and adopt a market based
> approach to being and becoming more competitive.
> Everything else is relatively small potatoes.
>
> And to the notion that there is no concept of
> choice in the public schools - of course there is
> - even within the mostly monopolistic system known
> as FCPS. People can and do exercise choices - and
> in any event school choice will continue to be
> more an issue which exerts more, and not less,
> influence on the politics of public schools. To
> cast the issue as %%%% does of put up or shut up
> or go private one is both simplistic and contrary
> to the facts as they exist today. And while I
> agree that there is no entitlement in a public
> school system as large as FCPS, that doesn't mean
> people won't vigorously exercise choices, both
> within and without the system - and they won't
> dispense easily with the benefits gained with the
> status - no amount of re-districting will make
> that disappear.


What did you mean by this? Please elaborate.

"and they won't dispense easily with the benefits gained with the status"

I can't help but think that everyone on that map is going to leave that meeting feeling very sad tonight.

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not as much wrong with FCPS as u thin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > %%%%% Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What you need is AP.
> >
> >
> > And if we had it, then I would love to welcome
> > your kids to SL, along with everyone else whose
> > only beef is AP vs IB. Peace.
>
>
> Well why didn't you say so in first place. See we
> have a common goal, we want AP for our kids.
>
> But I sincerely feel the way you are going about
> doing this, is not the right way. We have long
> proposed that lets form a joint citizen task force
> to figure our what the problem is at SL and try
> and fix it. It does not have to be this way,
> seriously.

One thing people do not realize is that there are a lot of future SL parents who would prefer AP. I have tried to make this clear to the SB, but who knows if anyone is listening. The school should either switch to AP or add the 6 most requested AP courses to IB. At least some of the concerns will be addressed for those who will be moved. As for other concerns: my opinion is that SL is already on the upswing and the timing of this study is both unfortunate and ironic - in another year or so, SL will be a much more attractive school even without any boundary changes.