The gun show is back at dulles expo the end of March. I went to the last one in January and it was packed. The prices are getting better too with more competition.

I know....im so pumped.... i'm definetly gonna go ahead and get something this time....i've passed up to many fair deals from there.

Better get an evil black assault rifle now before the dems outlaw them.

AR-15 .223 = Bad
Mini-14 .223 = Good

Same caliber, same capacity, same action type. When will they figure out the evilness is not in the gun, but in the shooter? We need to round up all the anti-gun people and force them to live in the "gun free" utopia called DC. It's amazing the difference in violent crime after one crosses the Potomac into VA.

NoVA Athiest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Better get an evil black assault rifle now before
> the dems outlaw them.
>
> AR-15 .223 = Bad
> Mini-14 .223 = Good
>
> Same caliber, same capacity, same action type.
> When will they figure out the evilness is not in
> the gun, but in the shooter? We need to round up
> all the anti-gun people and force them to live in
> the "gun free" utopia called DC. It's amazing the
> difference in violent crime after one crosses the
> Potomac into VA.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people

Hammers don't build houses, people build houses (with hammers).

I hope to hear shooting in the parking lot again.

Gunfire at the gun show?

Perhaps an accidental discharge caused by the stupid "no loaded guns" policy to enter the show. This causes unnecessary gun handling in the parking lot to unload a firearm before entry to the event. The safest place for a gun is in a holster, loaded or not. I've never heard of a modern gun (with drop safeties etc.) discharging without some sort of trigger manipulation.

There's no gunfire at the gun show, this is just the usual tripe posted by those who are deeply offended by the US Constitution... it happens with every gun-related thread.

As for accidental discharge we'll see what this guy's story was http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=1074944.

Radiophile Wrote:


> Guns don't kill people, people kill people
>
> Hammers don't build houses, people build houses
> (with hammers).

I want to see somebody build a house without a hammer!

Guns don't kill people, people kill people(with guns).

People also kill people with Hammers. I once saw a guy have a cerebral hemorrhage after listening to "Can't Touch This" over and over, for five straight hours. He was DOA at Fair Oaks Hospital.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2007 10:49PM by RESton Peace.

When the show came back after a long absence, gratis of fairfax county, the place was so crowded you couldnt move. Sales were as fast as the dealers could put them up there. Thankfully the state put an end to local gun laws and the liberals running fairfax had to eat crow.

Were it not for politicians from the rest of the state northern virginia would be just like Dc and maryland on gun laws.

yee haw..lets get strapped and spend our free time at a shooting range or out in the woods killing animals..what could be more entertaining? I just get a hard on thinking about it!

NRA:

You are an idiot. Your "wild west" lingo shows your contempt for something you do not know anything about or are scared of. Animals are raised in unsanitary penned conditions on mass produce farms and killed every day so you can shop in a supermarket. Thankfully, butchers have taken over (for the most part) the dirty deed of cleaning and preparing animal meat for you. Hunters hunt animals for sport, yes. But they also clean and eat what they kill. Man has been doing this for thousands and thousands of years. It amazes me that you seem to think that your chicken nuggets came out of some star trek food replicator and are not the product or end result of killing an animal.

As for your shooting range comment, I suggest you go back to killing imaginary terrorists with your Xbox controller, sitting on your ass in front of the TV with a caked crust of dorito seasoning on your chin. We sportsmen and hunters will get out of the house; enjoy the freedoms provided by our forefathers, and experience nature. It has been my experience that most anti-gunners have never been to a range or shot a firearm in their lifetime; sounds like you fit that mold.

AS mentioned above by "Atheist" if you don't like firearms you should move to gun & crime free DC and do us all a HUGE favor!

Very well written!

I'm guessing naked will be at the gun show for sure.

What is wrong with someone who wants to buy a gun for self protection and learns gun safety? If the average response time for the police to an emergency is say 15 minutes, if you are lucky, alot can happen in that time.

Personally I dont count on the cops saving my home from a breakin. Not that they do a bad job, just that there are only so many cops and there are one million people in Fairfax.

I do plan on being there. Sometimes I buy sometimes I dont, but good place to look around. Bargains can be had. They also will swap and trade for what you have. Just be prepared to make it safe at the door.

Apoligies to the FCPD, the response time for an emergency is around 7 minutes and not fifteen. That was from 2004. That is county wide.

the shooting in parking lots was just some ms 13 guys playing vaya con dios a new game they invented whereby they spin each other around 50 times then try to aim and hit anything the colour red. Tiempos los buenos! AAAIEEEEE!

Ok, so can one of you hicks--I mean, 'cool manly gun guys' explain to me how it all works, step by step from the beginning.
Pretend I'm someone who actually wants to be like you, but just doesn't know the ropes..

So first, you go get registered, and then you drive up to an expo and walk around trying to find a big machine gun for a good price, and then you fantasize about how many villainous minorities (who have decided on invading your home all at once to rape your wife and steal all your hard earned money) you could shoot if you bought xyz gun that can shoot a billion rounds per millisecond.
So you buy it, and take it home.

...
...
..and then... you do what?
What do you do with a $800+ piece of military weaponry in a metropolitan area?
You sit at home in a wife-beater watching the local news and you polish your big scary gun while childish scenes play out in your head where you and your ridiculous gun saves the day by killing all the 'bad' guys.

I mean seriously... Someone explain how it all works. Take me from my doorstep to yours...tell me why you decide to buy it, how you buy it, what you do with it after you buy it...and then after you've told me all that...try to tell me why it's so fucking great

I'm no gun nut, but you just sounded like the most ignorant tool of all time. You are right when you say you know exactly jack shit about "the process".

Your post has so many errors it would be hard to know where to start so why bother. Your ignorance of firearms is hard to believe.

I will only say this. Think back a few years ago when the rodney king riots started in LA. The cops would not, not couldnt, but would not respond to certain areas of the city.

The honest citizens finally saw their asses were hung out to dry, no help was coming. So they went to the gun stores as a last salvation. Guess what, there is a waiting period in LA and they couldnt buy a gun.
The only stores saved from the looters were the Korean owned who protected them with their own guns.

Lastly I have never brought into that give the criminal what he wants and he may spare your life. Fuck that attitude, that is for sheep.

Being a recent transplant from California, I have gone a little gun nuts in wonderfully gun friendly VA. My experience has been most stuff at the Dulles show is a little on the expensive side but there are bargains to be had and some dealers that get stuff and don't know its true value. There's a lot of ammo dealers too, Georgia Arms offers excellent ammo very cheaply. So.. I got a Romanian AK-47, an AR-15 and a sig p229 added to my arsenal. I had a Chinese AK in California back when it was still legal to buy them there. Every time even a whisper of gun control from Washington is heard, guns sales just go through the roof. And for all of you anti-gun folks, you should move to another state. VA is in the top 5 in the US in terms of pro gun laws (open carry, conceal carry etc). Off the top of my head I would only rate Vermont and Alaska higher maybe Arizona. Also note how VA has a much lower crime rate particularly in violent crimes that its neighbors to the north in DC and MD who both have much stricter gun laws. A criminal is not worried about breaking the law and can get anything they need on the streets weapon wise. Enjoy the gun freedom while it's still around for law abiding citizens.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2007 10:25PM by Mofo.

The reason we need those " big military style weapons" MR. Possum & squire eater is to be PREPARED !
1)
Prepared to shoot the niggers when they come for a home invasion (happens all the time asshole).
2) Prepared to defend our homes & business in the time of national emergency (remember Katrina asshole)
3) Prepared to overthrow our government and kill off elected officials that have betrayed our nation.
P.S. You are a dumb fuck & asshole to even question the need for firearms.
Why don't you come down to the show and meet some normal folks you Commie square fucker.

possum and squirrel is yum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, so can one of you hicks--I mean, 'cool manly
> gun guys' explain to me how it all works, step by
> step from the beginning.

Someone ("???") already said it: "Your ignorance of firearms is hard to believe."

How about this: instead of us explaining why we own guns, how about you explain why you are afraid of us and our "big scary guns"?

Forgot all about Katrina. The cops there wouldnt and couldnt respond. In fact some joined in on the looting while in uniform. Remember the big overweight cop pushing the shopping cart while in uniform filled with stolen items.
Some cops just packed their bags and left town never to come back. The feds took about five days to send any help at all. Remember the gang rapes of women?

I dont think Fairfax cops are anything like New Orleans, but like I said there are only so many. Do I think they would try to help, yes. Do I think they could help everyone in the county, no.

I am hoping someone inadvertently takes down a descending 747 that is coming into Dulles while firing rounds in the parking lot.

Forwarded to the FBI as this is an outright terrorist threat.

and hopefully it lands on pgens humourless informant ass

Mofo, wait until Sunday for the best bargains. The dealers dont want to carry anymore back to their stock then they have to. Big plus is to bring cash. No bs for the dealers to have to cut their profit with a credit card company or catch a bad check. Always ask for a cash discount, if they dont give it move on to another dealer.

Fridays have the highest prices. Novices buy on that day unless the seller isn't aware of the true value of the item, which is known to happen.

I used to see some good prices on the AR-15 knockoffs firing .223 ammo. I think mostly you see Armalite, Bushmaster and Olympic. I can't remember but one of the three is crap the other two are quality weapons. Anyone can add to it? They have Colt but the price is up there around $1,200. The others are in the $800 range.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysf8x477c30

A little dated and speaks to CA law as in VA full autos are perfectly legal if you pay the tax but still a very informative video for possum and anybody else who thinks banning firearms b/c of cosmetic features is a good idea.

The best deal I ever got was at a gun show in New Orleans, an almost new Ruger GP-100 for $200. My uncle actually got an airlight s&w for $30 at a show in illinois b/c the guy kept trying to load .22 ammo into it and when it didn't fit decided it was broken. I like to think he did a service to the community by taking a gun out of the hands of a complete moron.

My next purchase will be a SIG 556 as soon as they bring more in from over there and the prices get a little more reasonable.

Edit: ????, I think all 3 of those are OK makes. Armalite got swallowed by DPMS IIRC and bushmaster definitely makes a nice AR. Olympic is the worst of the 3, but by no means shitty. They make that nice little AR pistol too, if that's your thing. I own a colt myself and love it, but can't wait to get my hands on the Swiss take on the .223.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2007 02:21AM by The Congressman.

??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mofo, wait until Sunday for the best bargains. The
> dealers dont want to carry anymore back to their
> stock then they have to. Big plus is to bring
> cash. No bs for the dealers to have to cut their
> profit with a credit card company or catch a bad
> check. Always ask for a cash discount, if they
> dont give it move on to another dealer.
>
> Fridays have the highest prices. Novices buy on
> that day unless the seller isn't aware of the true
> value of the item, which is known to happen.
>
> I used to see some good prices on the AR-15
> knockoffs firing .223 ammo. I think mostly you see
> Armalite, Bushmaster and Olympic. I can't remember
> but one of the three is crap the other two are
> quality weapons. Anyone can add to it? They have
> Colt but the price is up there around $1,200. The
> others are in the $800 range.

Olympic would be the crap one. Armalite, Colt, and Bushmaster are top of the line in my opinion, but I have a Rock River (good bang for the buck and they won a contract to supply the DEA).

Maybe I'll try the sunday thing, I remember looking at a gun on friday though at one booth and liking it and it had gone up about 40 dollars by sunday. The sunday thing will probably hold true for ammo though.

possum and squirrel is yum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, so can one of you hicks--I mean, 'cool manly
> gun guys' explain to me how it all works, step by
> step from the beginning.
> Pretend I'm someone who actually wants to be like
> you, but just doesn't know the ropes..
>
> So first, you go get registered, and then you
> drive up to an expo and walk around trying to find
> a big machine gun for a good price, and then you
> fantasize about how many villainous minorities
> (who have decided on invading your home all at
> once to rape your wife and steal all your hard
> earned money) you could shoot if you bought xyz
> gun that can shoot a billion rounds per
> millisecond.
> So you buy it, and take it home.
>
> ...
> ...
> ..and then... you do what?
> What do you do with a $800+ piece of military
> weaponry in a metropolitan area?
> You sit at home in a wife-beater watching the
> local news and you polish your big scary gun while
> childish scenes play out in your head where you
> and your ridiculous gun saves the day by killing
> all the 'bad' guys.
>
> I mean seriously... Someone explain how it all
> works. Take me from my doorstep to yours...tell me
> why you decide to buy it, how you buy it, what you
> do with it after you buy it...and then after
> you've told me all that...try to tell me why it's
> so fucking great

No getting registered, once you buy it they run a check through the databases though. Have to be a VA resident for 30 days and have two forms of ID with the same address that show it. One pistol every 30 days unless you have a conceal carry permit.

As for military hardware, many guns are an excellent investment and appreciate nicely and I can almost guarantee that what is legal today, will not be legal tomorrow. (I experienced this in CA). No fantasies, but they're fun to shoot and just in case the world goes to shit you have a slight advantage. I grew up around guns and hunting, so it's more of a hobby I'd say for me. If some wackoloon wants to take people he can be more effictive probably in a car or a thousand other means than guns.

Now go post your extra large I support gun control/prohibition whatever it may be in your front yard so the robbers and such know they will have an easier time at your abode.

Cheers!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2007 02:33AM by Mofo.

maryland is trying to get in a gun ban on so called assault weapons. The Post put in a headline of "huge turnout on assault gun ban" What they didnt say was the huge turnout was against the ban and not for it. I read only a few people showed up in support of the ban, the usual brady group dummies.

Again make sure to bring cash to the gun show, it really gets the dealers attention. Lets them know you are there to buy and besides no one is going to rob you in that place. Bring the cash with you, the ATMs inside are always broke or empty.

THe only people who are for assault wepon bans (I.e bans on weapons that fire bullets most likely larger than 20 caliber and fire more than 1 bullet per press of the trigger...or if they're really retarded, are built with housings that make it look like an M-16, since anything that looks like an M-16 obviosly is) are those who have never fired a gun before, and watch on the news about how peopel get murdered all the time, and watch movies with automatic weapons.

Anyone who thinks these gun bans actually work, is retarded since you can buy full-auto AK-47s or 74s on eBay. Stats on gun violence in DC and MD vs. VA would be useful here too.

I'd like to buy a gun...but the little woman and I don't get along well enough.

And statistics show that a gun in the home is far, far more likely to be used to kill a family member than a bad guy.

duh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to buy a gun...but the little woman and I
> don't get along well enough.
>
> And statistics show that a gun in the home is far,
> far more likely to be used to kill a family member
> than a bad guy.


People keep quoting this study after it was determined to be both biased and flawed.
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=119
Yes, this is from the NRA and googling brings up plenty of other sources, but I think this one explains it the best.
"suicides (never shown to correlate to gun ownership) accounted for the overwhelming majority of gun-related family member deaths he pretended to compare to defensive gun uses."
Please don't blindly rehash bad information as the truth. If you're serious about gun ownership, do some research and make up your own mind, don't let somebody else do it for you.

Buy a box gun safe that opens with a push of a three button combination determined by you. They are about $30.00. Go to the gun show there are lots of them there. Most quality guns sold today come with a free trigger lock or a cable lock that slides through the receiver.

Dont ever make the mistake of putting the gun somewhere that "the kids cant find" or high up so they can't reach it.

On the wife and you not getting along you better fix it or leave her. One charge of domestic assault and you lose the right to own a gun ever, along with alot of other rights. Don't think just because you are arrested you will get off if you didnt do anything. It is her word against yours and you know who the courts will believe. Look at child support and alimony cases, who gets hammered in that court? Same court, Domestic Relations, same outcome.

A word about going Sunday: while some prices may be negotiable, the selection will probably be a lot slimmer as most dealers dont bring new stock after Saturday, especially ammo dealers.

Oh and the 3- or 4-button safes are more like $90 depending on quality.

links:
http://www.cegunshows.com/
http://www.thenationsgunshow.com/

When the show first started up at the Expo Center, it was antique civil war items and Glocks. Hardly any revolvers or any variety. Has it changed at all?

Henry Krinkle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When the show first started up at the Expo Center,
> it was antique civil war items and Glocks. Hardly
> any revolvers or any variety. Has it changed at
> all?


Yes, though the top brands/models are still very heavily represented. If you're looking for glock you wont have much trouble. If you're looking for a 1936 Tula manufactured Mosin Nagant M91/30 with octoganal reciever and matching serial numbers... you might not have that much trouble either... but if you're looking for a very specific, rare elephant gun, then you will have trouble. As for revolvers, yes lots of choice.


Here's a link to the Penn and Teller "Bullshit" episode on gun control:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2312508445846864220&q=gun+control+bullshit%20target=_new

This was at walmart for 55 bucks, I have seen cheaper.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2221464

Like anything the price goes up as the quality goes up. Depending on what you want to protect you could go the higher priced route and get a stand up safe for 500 or so dollars. They sell them at the show. Measured over say twenty years it is cheap insurance for your property. I think they have Liberty brand safes at the show, not sure how much the cost of delivery is.

Not sure why but the old Smith and Wesson .38 chiefs specials have held their value over many years. Maybe because they are light weight and quality.

I'll never forget the episode of "Antique Roadshow" where the guy brought in a Model 1873 Winchester....and the appraiser pointed out that it was a "one of one thousand" gun...taken off the assembly line and test fired (19th century quality control?) for accuracy.

The gun went for $100K at auction.

I wish I could find one of THOSE motherfuckers in my grandpappy's attic!

what are the glock prices usually like at this show and has anyone ever taken the $100 pistol first steps course or any other course at 1 of these events?

Usually the only way to find cheaper prices is to know a dealer who has his FFL license. Otherwise the gun show is prob cheapest you will find. The ones at the show have no overhead and can run the business out of their house.

To get a FFL you have to have a business space zoned commercial, and the BATFE checks it out. They specifically don't want people running the business from their home.

I know of a couple of people who still run it out of their homes on a limited basis. Usually a place with few zoning laws and certainly no HOA to hassle with.

I think it is too bad because the government would never think of doing that to a person trying to run a small catering business or pet sitting. But since it is evil guns lets use the law for it.

If the person was having customers running up and down the street all day and parking all over then I would say that is what the law was intended to prevent. Others simply sell the guns to friends and cops to give them a break on the mark up yet the law is used on them. They keep a very limited supply and usually only order when someone wants a certain item.

Also in the shotgun news you can find persons holding FFL's to order guns for you to get the dealers price. I am not sure but I think they make only a small charge for the service.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Stats on gun violence in DC and MD vs. VA
> would be useful here too.

The "stats" say that you are far more likely to kill a loved one that an armed intruder. You guys remember "Katrina" and the "LA riots" and want to be prepared "just in case". Well, be prepared just in case your wife gets a drink of water in the middle of the night and you pull out weapon. This happens far more ofter than riots or floods.

And to think you will stay behind because you have a gun when the Great Fairfax Flood comes just makes me laugh.

Remember when Homer Simpson went to buy a gun and the shop owner told him there would be a 3 day waiting period? Homer said "3 Days???? But I am angry NOW!".

Also, remember all the people who are not habitual murderers and got into a argument or fight and the gun just happened to be available? Jails and probation offices are full of these people.

And you say that VA law prohibits more than 1 pistol purchase a month. Remember, the NRA fought against that law and they fought hard. The NRA says that gun owners should be responsible, but why is their headquarters in Fairfax County and not DC? They were in DC, their museum was broken into and many guns stolen. These guns were sold on the street and used in the commission of murders and other crimes. So they moved to Fairfax County. Just another example of the NRA supplying guns to criminals.

Sit back, polish your gun and wait for the uprising.

Of course TheTruth has no issue with the freedom of being able to express free speech without delay here, at will, just hit Submit. But the poster wants other parts of the Constitution broken to introduce delays because they were mocked on a cartoon. TheTruth, school teachers and principals are regularly mocked on The Simpsons, so let's get rid of those first as they aren't even listed in the Constitution. Same with nuclear power.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course TheTruth has no issue with the freedom
> of being able to express free speech without
> delay here, at will, just hit Submit. But the
> poster wants other parts of the Constitution
> broken to introduce delays because they were
> mocked on a cartoon. TheTruth, school teachers
> and principals are regularly mocked on The
> Simpsons, so let's get rid of those first as they
> aren't even listed in the Constitution. Same with
> nuclear power.

Remember when Charlton Heston became President of the NRA for his third term? The NRA constitution says that no NRA can serve more than two terms, but they amended their constitution.

I was not praising the gospel of the Simpsons, just saying that is the reason for the 3 day waiting period - because people cool down eventually.

And what exactly does the constitution say about guns? I have not heard an NRA person quote it correctly yet. They usually start in the middle of the sentence and then leave some words out.

Very funny. And people like you don't read the part that says "The People", you know, the term used for voting rights and representation and stuff like that.

Truth:

You need to get your facts straight. Anyone can buy a gun at the gun shop in about 20 minutes. If you don't believe that, give me $1100 for the 1911 I've had my eye on (but don't intend to buy unless you are paying for it) and I'll show you just how fast it can be in my hands. Last time I bought a gun I stepped outside for a smoke while waiting for the transaction to complete after submitting my paperwork. The FFL interrupted my smoke to tell me to come back inside because the sale was complete! 4-8 minutes by my estimation for the "instant check" and the rest of the time spent there was filling out the forms before the check.

Also, I can buy as many handguns as I want in any given month. Anyone who has a CHP is allowed that "right".

Why don't you do something constructive and rally against drunk drivers or smoking? Both kill more people in the USA on any given day then gunshots do in a year! Do you live in gun and crime free DC yet? I've heard its quite wonderful!

Well The Truth, we just had a flood this summer.

Who says I will be living here. Maybe I am goign to move to some place where hurricanes happen a lot (Liek florida!)

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well The Truth, we just had a flood this summer.
>
> Who says I will be living here. Maybe I am goign
> to move to some place where hurricanes happen a
> lot (Liek florida!)

If you do move to Florida, I trust that when the authorities say EVACUATE, you and your gun will stay behind. Hey, you will have a gun, in cases of riots, hurricane, or flood, you will be safe!

If you're afraid a gun is going to hop out of the drawer and shoot your loved ones, don't get one. It's quite simple. Also, if you've read the entire thread, you'd realize that that you're the second person to refer to the flawed, shooting family members study.

so how many of the gun enthusiasts on here have actually ever used their fire arm to protect themselves or their family?

The Congressman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're afraid a gun is going to hop out of the
> drawer and shoot your loved ones, don't get one.
> It's quite simple. Also, if you've read the
> entire thread, you'd realize that that you're the
> second person to refer to the flawed, shooting
> family members study.

The NRA and their powerfull lobby put a stop to nearly all information gathering on firearm statistics, and put a twist on the other statistics. But what do we know? Here is what is a fact.

Harvard Injury Control Research Center, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA 02115, USA. cbarber@hsph.harvard.edu

OBJECTIVE: A growing body of evidence suggests that the nation's vital statistics system undercounts unintentional firearm deaths that are not self inflicted. This issue was examined by comparing how unintentional firearm injuries identified in police Supplementary Homicide Report (SHR) data were coded in the National Vital Statistics System. METHODS: National Vital Statistics System data are based on death certificates and divide firearm fatalities into six subcategories: homicide, suicide, accident, legal intervention, war operations, and undetermined. SHRs are completed by local police departments as part of the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports program. The SHR divides homicides into two categories: "murder and non-negligent manslaughter" (type A) and "negligent manslaughter" (type B). Type B shooting deaths are those that are inflicted by another person and that a police investigation determined were inflicted unintentionally, as in a child killing a playmate after mistaking a gun for a toy. In 1997, the SHR classified 168 shooting victims this way. Using probabilistic matching, 140 of these victims were linked to their death certificate records. RESULTS: Among the 140 linked cases, 75% were recorded on the death certificate as homicides and only 23% as accidents. CONCLUSION: Official data from the National Vital Statistics System almost certainly undercount firearm accidents when the victim is shot by another person.

PMID: 12226128 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

But AHA!!!! You mention Suicide as the culprit... Did you know that the presence of a gun in a home increases the risk of suicide fivefold. YES FIVEFOLD. And that teenagers are more likely to commit suicide if a gun is available.

Yes, if you're afraid of those statistics, don't keep a gun in your home. The point of my posts here are to encourage people to make an informed decision. You presented another viewpoint with your reference, good. The more info people have to make a decision, the more likely they will make the one right for them. I neither promote nor discourage gun ownership. I've made my decision, and I don't want anybody else to try to make it for me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2007 06:53PM by The Congressman.

There was a really ridiculous fight in the parking lot of the gun show on Sunday, two real rednecks beating the piss out of each other, there must hve been about 30 - 40 people stading around. I ran off when the cops pulled up so I don't know what happend.

The Congressman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, if you're afraid of those statistics, don't
> keep a gun in your home. The point of my posts
> here are to encourage people to make an informed
> decision. You presented another viewpoint with
> your reference, good. The more info people have
> to make a decision, the more likely they will make
> the one right for them. I neither promote nor
> discourage gun ownership. I've made my decision,
> and I don't want anybody else to try to make it
> for me.

Well said. People should make informed decisions about firearms just as they should about driving. One is a right and one is a privilege of course, but forgetting that the point is well made.

Truth, if a person wakes up and shoots at the first thing he sees then he never took a firearms safety course.
Basically know your target and what is beyond it. In other words you identify what you are shooting at. Anyone who has taken a course knows you dont just start blasting away at shadows.

Maybe you are too young to remember but in the 70's there was a thing called a gas shortage. People actually killed people over a place in line. If people kill over gasoline what do you think they do over food or property.

Didnt you learn anything after Katrina? Just like the founders of America, people should learn to take care of themselves. Self protection is not only a right it is a responsibility.

Do I think this area could be another Katrina, prob not, but I try not to leave much to chance.

Patch, that must have been one hell of a fight, the gun show isn't until the end of this month or was it left over from the january show?

mrheebers, I have never used my smoke detector either, applying your logic then I dont need one.

??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mrheebers, I have never used my smoke detector
> either, applying your logic then I dont need one.

It's okay... mrheebers is free to go without protection in any way he wants. The distinction is he is free (as long as he doesn't violate building codes) to go without smoke detectors as he sees fit. As long as he doesn't prevent me from using smoke detectors I could care less.

"The makers of the Constitution conferred the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by all civilized men—the right to be let alone."
-JUSTICE LOUIS D. BRANDEIS

In other words as long as it is my legal right to possess a firearm why must I ever justify my need to own one to anybody?

pgens..i appreciate you not ripping me a new one..i realize it was a stupid post which could easily be countered by an argument such as a smoke alarm..i am just amused at the passion that comes out when people argue for or against guns...personally i have no problem with people owning guns as long as they are not doing so for unlawful reasons.

Ok here are some real statistics on the crime in this area. You will note that northern VA is substantially lower than southern MD and DC.

"The District finished fifth in number of homicides — behind Los Angeles at 654, Chicago at 648, New York at 590 and Detroit at 402. But the District's homicide rate was more than double that of Los Angeles, which had 17.48 killings per 100,000 residents".
http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20030616-093406-7084r.htm (from 2003)

"In addition to having the highest number of killings, the District also tallied the highest homicide rate in the region: 35 per 100,000 residents. Across the country, cities similar to the District -- with populations of 500,000 to 1 million -- had an average homicide rate of 13.5 per 100,000 in 2004.

Prince George's, with a population of 850,000, had a rate of 20 per 100,000, and Fairfax had a rate of 2 per 100,000."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/01/AR2006010101049.html


"The District is among the major U.S. cities with the highest percentage of people being killed by firearms, despite having one of the strictest gun-control laws in the country.
A recent Metropolitan Police Department report on homicides from 2001 to 2005 states that 901 of 1,126 homicide victims, or about 80 percent, were fatally shot.
"It's a problem," Chief Charles H. Ramsey said. "It may be something that's with us for a while."
Firearms last year alone were used to commit 157 of the District's 196 homicides, or about 80 percent. That percentage has remained relatively consistent since 2001, when a five-year low of 78.4 percent of homicides were committed using guns.
FBI crime statistics for 2005 show 10,100 of the country's 14,860 homicide victims, or 68 percent, were killed by guns".
http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20061116-111332-8159r.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2007 10:32PM by Mofo.

I know this is gonna sound stoopid but has anyone watched the TV show "Jericho"? You all need to wake up, DC is target numero uno for every enemy of the USA. Fairfax county has over one million residents. Do you think the police can keep law and order (over one million people) with their limited numbers if/when shit hits the fan? Humans are very civil and nice when the conditions allow, but throw in a crisis and it's every man, woman, and child for themselves! So, go ahead and call the (non working) police line when looters are raping your wife and driving away with your Hummer if something bad happens. Every person I've seen (on TV) who has any experience on the subject of terrorism states it's not "if" but "WHEN" we get attacked next.

Mofo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok here are some real statistics on the crime in
> this area. You will note that northern VA is
> substantially lower than southern MD and DC.

See, this is what is amusing about officials in DC and Maryland wanting more gun restrictions in Virginia. They say VA supplies all the guns and causes crime. Yet if that were true then one would expect Virginia to have even more crime than those two. Dummies. Crimes go up when thugs don't have to worry about retaliation and everyone is an easy target. In Virginia, the bad guys don't know who is armed and who isn't.

My two cents on why there is so much passion attached to gun ownership. Most legal gun owners are responsible people who obey the law to the letter. They try to do whats right and keep their life in order.

Along comes a group of people with little or no understanding of the proper operation of a gun. Most dont even know the difference between a revolver and a a semi auto handgun. They have never owned a gun nor do they want to. That of course is their right. My right is to own a gun and do it responsibly.

This group now wants me to surrender my rights for no other reason than they dont like it. There are many things I dont like such as fat people eating at Mcdonalds, smokers lighting up and huge SUV's which suck up gas. Yet since the aforementioned is legal I accept it.

Get educated and make educated decisions.

http://www.guncite.com/

This is the link to a website that not only has a lot of pro 2nd amendment info, but also a lot of info on gun control. While it is obviously leaning in favor of gun ownership, it also serves to educate and bust the myths of gun ownership. Both sides of the debate in this forum could stand to read some of the articles on Guncite.com

TheTruth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And what exactly does the constitution say about
> guns? I have not heard an NRA person quote it
> correctly yet. They usually start in the middle of
> the sentence and then leave some words out.

Take this and read it really carefully. Then you can stuff it in your piehole for future reference whenever you come out swinging against the Constitution. Go Founding Fathers!

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1083473
http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/docs/common/opinions/200703/04-7041a.pdf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2007 02:52PM by pgens.

I don't see how a right-wing supreme court doesn't uphold that...

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ??? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > mrheebers, I have never used my smoke detector
> > either, applying your logic then I dont need
> one.
>
> It's okay... mrheebers is free to go without
> protection in any way he wants. The distinction
> is he is free (as long as he doesn't violate
> building codes) to go without smoke detectors as
> he sees fit. As long as he doesn't prevent me
> from using smoke detectors I could care less.


Oooh its the old counter gun theory with the ole smoke detector defense argument!. Riiight well let me to ask you THIS, unless I rip my smoke detector off the ceiling and throw it frisbee style and smack someone JUST RIGHT on the temple a smoke detector isnt liable to KILL someone outright. NO its just going to make a really LOUD NOISE in case of smoke! Sure Guns make really loud noises but hey they also get pointed at objects and expell hot lead designed to perforate and destroy said objects! Fine line between savings lives by detecting DANGER and saving lives by BEING DANGEROUS! Oh and if you COULD CARE LESS, then that shows a modicum of concern. I'm guessing you meant that you COULD NOT care less wich means you dont give a fuck about people being scared of having their bodies perforated and destroyed.

The gun show may just have some more customers
http://wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1083473

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Oooh its the old counter gun theory with the ole
> smoke detector defense argument!. Riiight well
> let me to ask you THIS, unless I rip my smoke
> detector off the ceiling and throw it frisbee
> style and smack someone JUST RIGHT on the temple a
> smoke detector isnt liable to KILL someone
> outright. NO its just going to make a really LOUD
> NOISE in case of smoke! Sure Guns make really
> loud noises but hey they also get pointed at
> objects and expell hot lead designed to perforate
> and destroy said objects! Fine line between
> savings lives by detecting DANGER and saving lives
> by BEING DANGEROUS! Oh and if you COULD CARE
> LESS, then that shows a modicum of concern. I'm
> guessing you meant that you COULD NOT care less
> wich means you dont give a fuck about people being
> scared of having their bodies perforated and
> destroyed.


Guns can save lives too. I own guns for the same reason I own a fire extinguisher. Because I'm not going to rely on Fairfax Fire Department to put out my little house fires in time the same way I dont rely on Fairfax Police Department to get to my house before a burglar/rapist/whatever harms me or my family. The next time something goes bump in the night I hope you feel safe with your telephone and your locked door, but honestly thats not going to deter a home invasion.

.................rapist?

Don't flatter yourself there, Boris.

:-*

ok following that logic to its conclusion why dont you just go all out and buy a fire truck and park it in your front yard since a piddley fire extinguisher wont stop a blazing inferno? Also those bumps in the night COULD be the one option of a home invasion but are more likely to be your kids sneaking around, a dog the house settling Your Wife's lover sneaking out the back door or any number of other things. Im gonna rely on my Smoke detector, FIre extinguisher, Baseball bat and Very large dog named Bert as home safety options. THat way if mistakes are made then they are non lethal. OH and what do you have that gun in your trousers for Boris, ZE GERMANZ?

You have a dog, I have a .45

I'll take the .45 over a dog any day.

One hot dog thrown on the floor and the dog forgets it's duty is to protect your home.

While your dog is having a hot dog for lunch a criminal is tying you up and raping your wife.

Then all your shit runs out the door with him.

Your wife in preggo and divorces you for being an idiot and entrusting her and your protection to a canine.

Enjoy your life as a single man with a stupid dog and an alimony payment.

Edit: Your baseball bat is scoring home runs for the rapists kids little league team.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2007 10:34PM by nakedshoplifter.

I'd like to see you go up against a pit bull with a hotdog....

Ferfux what does it hurt to be prepared? Proper ownership includes safe handling of the firearm. It also includes proper security measures that keep the gun safe from kids.

Any gun owner who has taken any type of course in gun safety knows not to just shoot at shadows or bumps in the night. You should attend the Dulles show some time and see how knowledgable the clients are about guns and the safe practice of gun ownership. They know one idiot with a gun gives everyone a bad name. They work hard to prevent this.

Maybe if the schools were not run by such liberals they could actually give the kids safety tips about guns. The NRA tried to do this but was turned down as they just dont fit in with the politically correct crowd. Instead the kids need to hear about why Johnny has two dads.

nakedshoplifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have a dog, I have a .45
>
> I'll take the .45 over a dog any day.
>
> One hot dog thrown on the floor and the dog
> forgets it's duty is to protect your home.
>
> While your dog is having a hot dog for lunch a
> criminal is tying you up and raping your wife.
>
> Then all your shit runs out the door with him.
>
> Your wife in preggo and divorces you for being an
> idiot and entrusting her and your protection to a
> canine.
>
> Enjoy your life as a single man with a stupid dog
> and an alimony payment.
>
> Edit: Your baseball bat is scoring home runs for
> the rapists kids little league team.




Lol, Pwned. This pwned picture looks particularly approppriate to this thread:
Attachments:

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok following that logic to its conclusion why dont
> you just go all out and buy a fire truck and park
> it in your front yard since a piddley fire
> extinguisher wont stop a blazing inferno? Also
> those bumps in the night COULD be the one option
> of a home invasion but are more likely to be your
> kids sneaking around, a dog the house settling
> Your Wife's lover sneaking out the back door or
> any number of other things. Im gonna rely on my
> Smoke detector, FIre extinguisher, Baseball bat
> and Very large dog named Bert as home safety
> options. THat way if mistakes are made then they
> are non lethal. OH and what do you have that gun
> in your trousers for Boris, ZE GERMANZ?

I for one don't like new gun laws because I hate when the government takes any rights away from us that we once had. And if you don't think the second amendment give us that right, look at the recent appellate court decision for DC saying it does precisely that.

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OH and what do you have that gun
> in your trousers for Boris, ZE GERMANZ?

No, for gun-grabbing assholes like you who think people with natural born rights have to justify a need for those rights and let you pass judgement. If you don't like people exercising fredom, go somewhere where they can't. If freedom scares you so much that you trust a guy in a black kevlar helmet with a machine gun but can't trust your neighbor with a pistol, then freedom is not for you. You need a shrink to find out why you are so scared of your own shadow, why you project your feelings of aggression onto your peaceful neighbors, why you don't want to grow up and take responsibility for your own safety and independence. Or you need to move far away.

Ferfuk this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, for gun-grabbing assholes like you who think
> people with natural born rights have to justify a
> need for those rights and let you pass judgement.
> If you don't like people exercising fredom, go
> somewhere where they can't.

ferfux is a minor and a troller, don't take the bait.

ok first of all the second ammendment was drafted by mere mortals, Very intelligent men but MEN nonetheless. They are FALLIBLE. SO Gun ownership isnt some natural born RIGHT for God's sake. DC may have had a gun ban for many years and had more crime than VA but its a CITY with a dense population. ALL cities have Greater crime stats than a whole spread out suburban or rural population. My dog my baseball bat and my Wife who dont know karate but knows CarAZAY could take on any home invader. The Highschool I attended before moving to VA had SHOCK GASP a hunting and SHooting Club that taught firearms safety, maintenance, and CPR in case of an accident all sponsored by the NRA.
My uncle is a Policeman and the Seargent at arms for his depts shoooting range. I know a LOT about guns. I also know the statistics of Kids dying from gunshot wounds, stolen firearms and just plain stupid things that happen when people under stress have guns in their possesion and forget their training. Oh and Pgens You are as condescending, patronising and arrogent as ever. Go fuck yourself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2007 12:40PM by ferfux.

ferfux, the gun safety class couldnt have been at any of the schools in this area. It is not politically correct to even mention that guns exist. I think that plays a part in why kids get in trouble with guns since they are so taboo. Kind of along the same lines as sex ed. Parents dont want it taught then cant figure out why their daughter got pregnant.

At least you admit to taking the classes most have never fired ,owned or even seen gun outside tv. If guns are properly stored and a person receives training the chances of an accident are around zero.

pgens is right, ferfux is just a self-loving little twat who can't play nice with the other kids on the playground, so his parents let him loose on the internet. Nobody gives a rat's fuck what he thinks.

I often used to wish Ferfux would die a horrible death, because he such an annoying little speck of dirt. But now, I have just come to realize he is a sad joke, that nobody takes seriously. We should feel sorry for him, because he is simply a small boy and he is not loved by anyone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2007 02:24PM by park12.

There is no way Ferfux passed a gun class. He's too stupid to even figure out where the safety is. I'm willing to bet he would shoot himself if he had any kind of firearm in his hands, that tiny puppy bitch.

No I would group 6 perfect shots in your heart, reload group 6 more in your forehead, eyes, nose, mouth and chin, reload then steal your puppy, send it to my former high school in Ohio for our hunting club Mascott

I love it when anti-gunners claim they know more about guns then the rest of us. I also love it when they threaten to kill us ...with....GUNS

pot, meet the kettle.

Yeah, sad. Like I said, a minor and a troll and should not have his posts replied to.

Mofo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ferfux Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ok following that logic to its conclusion why
> dont
> > you just go all out and buy a fire truck and
> park
> > it in your front yard since a piddley fire
> > extinguisher wont stop a blazing inferno? Also
> > those bumps in the night COULD be the one
> option
> > of a home invasion but are more likely to be
> your
> > kids sneaking around, a dog the house settling
> > Your Wife's lover sneaking out the back door or
> > any number of other things. Im gonna rely on
> my
> > Smoke detector, FIre extinguisher, Baseball bat
> > and Very large dog named Bert as home safety
> > options. THat way if mistakes are made then
> they
> > are non lethal. OH and what do you have that
> gun
> > in your trousers for Boris, ZE GERMANZ?
>
> I for one don't like new gun laws because I hate
> when the government takes any rights away from us
> that we once had. And if you don't think the
> second amendment give us that right, look at the
> recent appellate court decision for DC saying it
> does precisely that.



ok so you are waiting for the Government to give you a right? thats just bass akcwards and foolish. The Governemnt is for the people by the people. not for the Rich people who paid for it as Poloticians believe nowadays. Gun ownership started out with two debates. The Federalists and the anti federalists and was ammended and argued over many times before being ratified. Gun ownership might be a standard but it by no means is the perfect solution. Crime statistics, sorrowful stories and a past history show that the pefect world of NRA training and responsible gun owners is unrealistic. By saying people are keeping the peace by adding more gun is counter intuitive and stupid. the less weapons out there in the hands of criminals the better. Park12s comments were obnoxious and stupid and my retort was meant ironically as anyone knows to combat something you have to become just as bad as it is in order to wipe it out.

Automobile ownership might be a standard but it by no means is the perfect solution. crash statistics, sorrowful stories and a past history show that the pefect world of driver education and responsible automobile owners is unrealistic

Cars get you from point A to point Z thats what they are designed for. Guns are designed to kill and destroy. Two totally differant things.

No,

Guns are designed to fire a projectile where pointed. You are describing an act of man, to kill and destroy is an intent of an evil person. Just like an evil person can run someone down with a car. Your logic as flawed to the nth degree when you think a gun has a mind of its own and it's not the human behind the gun that is bad.

None of my guns have killed or destroyed yet. Are they defective? Should I demand a refund or return them? I mean, obviously, they are not performing as they should.

Check out this link: http://www.assaultweaponwatch.com/

They have a live webcam on an evil black assault weapon. All liberals like you are invited to keep a close eye on the rifle and the first time you see it jump up and kill someone I urge you to immediately call the police.

The assault weapon ban targeted bayonet lugs for a reason. Where's the bayonet?
Many people have pointed this out - that bayonets are a large part of street violence with these weapons and this rifle should be equipped with one. We are currently accepting donations to buy a bayonet for it.

Why doesn't the picture update as fast as I click "reload" anymore?
The load on our servers and the amount of bandwidth we were using was straining our meager budget, so we now only upload new frames every few seconds instead of streaming the video.

Aren't you afraid an underprivileged urban-outdoorsman might break in and steal the rifle?
No, we have the rifle and camera setup in a secured office building with an alarm system. Besides, if criminals actually stole the weapons they later used in crimes, gun control laws wouldn't make much sense.

How big is that thing?
It's actually quite large. It's well over three feet long and weighs about ten pounds! We were taken aback when we purchased this, because we expected a cheap, small, and easily concealable weapon that would be more logical for use in a crime, not this beast that is anything but!

It really cost $1,500?
Yes. People keep asking this. It was one of the first things we learned in our endeavor - assault weapons are apparently some of the most expensive weapons you can buy. The really strange thing is we have also discovered that assault weapons use lower powered cartridges, and actually are a lot less powerful than a shotgun or a hunting rifle! We would like to obtain a dreaded 50 caliber assault weapon that our fellow anti-gun groups keep pushing to ban, but were aghast to discover that these cost $8,000 and weigh 40 pounds!

Ok, they're less powerful, but they shoot really fast?
No. We actually watched someone fire one just like ours at the range when we bought it. It does not go bangbangbang and spray bullets like in the movies!! It only fires one shot with each pull of the trigger. Apparently this is also just like a more powerful semi-automatic hunting rifle. We have no doubt that this does not effect the lethality of these weapons, though, because what hunting rifle has a bayonet lug!

Have you seen any violence yet?
No, but we have no doubt that we will soon. We have only been watching this for a little over a month. We started this web site so that others could help us watch - we do not know what happens when we go home at night!

Is that a flash hider on that thing?
Yes, on the end of the barrel, that's an actual flash hider!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2007 05:54PM by nakedshoplifter.

nakedshoplifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No,
>
> Guns are designed to fire a projectile where
> pointed. You are describing an act of man, to kill
> and destroy is an intent of an evil person. Just
> like an evil person can run someone down with a
> car. Your logic as flawed to the nth degree when
> you think a gun has a mind of its own and it's not
> the human behind the gun that is bad.
>
> None of my guns have killed or destroyed yet. Are
> they defective? Should I demand a refund or return
> them? I mean, obviously, they are not performing
> as they should.


no your logic is flawed. A gun and a car are tools designed by men. A car is designed as transport. A gun is designed to fire a bullet and strike another object. If a gun was designed to simply fire a bullet and that would be it then it would be a pretty useless tool. Assigning morality to the tool as you have done is a stupid and foolish argument and circumvents the logic of my argument. Obviously a car is meant to do as its HUMAN master wishes as a GUN is meant to do as its human handler wishes. a Car is meant for transport and a gun is meant to render that which is alive DEAD and that which is not alive DAMAGED.

And when they pass the laws forbiding guns do you think the criminals will be at the front of the line to turn them in or the back of the line robbing the law abiding as they come out unarmed.

The only proven deterent is harsh sentences anytime a gun is used in a crime.