solution: get rid of it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If they got rid of band, it would get rid of the
> official/unofficial argument that's been going on
> here. If they want music at football games, they
> can play CDs.
>
> Oh yes they can fire all the band teachers while
> they are at it.



This is so not necessary. You just have to be legal with the fees.

Is it just McLean? I know 2 other schools who do the same thing. So why not expose all 20-some schools?

Teacher7294 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it just McLean? I know 2 other schools who do
> the same thing. So why not expose all 20-some
> schools?


Who are they? Expose them here. One person can't do it all.

***** Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teacher7294 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is it just McLean? I know 2 other schools who
> do
> > the same thing. So why not expose all 20-some
> > schools?
>
>
> Who are they? Expose them here. One person can't
> do it all.

You wouldn't want McLean to feel like they were singled out, would you?

All 25 high schools have had their time in the spotlight in the last two or three years.

FCPS already admitted they are not allowed to charge for additional instructors for classes. They are just digging themselves into a great big hole with McLean lying and making up stories about how after school rehearsals aren't curricular even though they charge a course fee for them, and how they were completely optional when Weise had everybody sign an agreement saying they understood they were mandatory.

They are horrible liars. They act like schoolyard bullies.

Come on! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ***** Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Teacher7294 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Is it just McLean? I know 2 other schools
> who
> > do
> > > the same thing. So why not expose all 20-some
> > > schools?
> >
> >
> > Who are they? Expose them here. One person
> can't
> > do it all.
>
> You wouldn't want McLean to feel like they were
> singled out, would you?
>
> All 25 high schools have had their time in the
> spotlight in the last two or three years.
>
> FCPS already admitted they are not allowed to
> charge for additional instructors for classes.
> They are just digging themselves into a great big
> hole with McLean lying and making up stories about
> how after school rehearsals aren't curricular even
> though they charge a course fee for them, and how
> they were completely optional when Weise had
> everybody sign an agreement saying they understood
> they were mandatory.
>
> They are horrible liars. They act like schoolyard
> bullies.


Close it down, get some CD players. Band is fine, marching band is not only stupid but a breeding ground for abuse, perversion, and financial fiddles.

Shut it all down! Football. Athletics. Band. Theatre. Music. Turf fields. Big Stadiums and sport complexes. Science Fairs. Robotics clubs. After school clubs. Honor Societies. Forensics. VHSL. We don't need anything other than the 3 R's. Everything else parents can pay for privately.

Look around the USA. Fairfax County is the only public school system spending big bucks on these types of things. I don't see any other public school systems in any other state paying for this kind of stuff. FCPS is unique in spending money to fund fluff. End it all for the taxpayer.

Schools can't charge for instructional programs and activities except as indicated in section H. Extra instructors aren't listed in section H. They aren't a consumable. The course catalog clearly says that marching rehearsals AND performances are part of the course. They are part of the instructional programs and activities. That is why they charge a course fee for Marching Band. The course fee isn't just for the marching competitions/performances. The competitions are supposed to be paid for out of appropriated funds, anyway. You can't charge the kids for the required competitions. That is their test. So what is the course fee for if it isn't for the rehearsals? There isn't anything else. The course itself starts the first day of school. The summer camps are optional activities and are supposed to be priced out separately.

You can charge for extra instructors for summer camp, but NOT for the course itself. They even said that. They had checked on this a while ago.

Round and round we go............


Of note is that no fee can be charged to students for materials not directly used by a public school student. So, if they want to take your senior class fee and use it to rent fancy gowns for the staff for graduation, that doesn't sound kosher. (Hey, Falls Church) Or if they want to take your course fee or other fee and buy fancy jackets and stuff for the staff that isn't kosher either, is it? (Hey, everybody)
Attachments:

lookaroundyou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shut it all down! Football. Athletics. Band.
> Theatre. Music. Turf fields. Big Stadiums and
> sport complexes. Science Fairs. Robotics clubs.
> After school clubs. Honor Societies. Forensics.
> VHSL. We don't need anything other than the 3
> R's. Everything else parents can pay for
> privately.
>
> Look around the USA. Fairfax County is the only
> public school system spending big bucks on these
> types of things. I don't see any other public
> school systems in any other state paying for this
> kind of stuff. FCPS is unique in spending money
> to fund fluff. End it all for the taxpayer.

The corruption is deep and spreading. It needs to be cut out and sterilized before it gets much worse, or the patient will die.

I believe the state curriculum mandates education in music and the arts, and for good reason. It certainly doesn't mandate education for varsity football. It mandates general PE.

They are spending money on education in music and the arts all over the country.

RufbfjT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe the state curriculum mandates education
> in music and the arts, and for good reason. It
> certainly doesn't mandate education for varsity
> football. It mandates general PE.
>
> They are spending money on education in music and
> the arts all over the country.

No they are not. I challenge you to point out one other state or school system that has marching band and that go to marching band competitions. Only FCPS wastes that kind of money.

t'ain't so Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RufbfjT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I believe the state curriculum mandates
> education
> > in music and the arts, and for good reason. It
> > certainly doesn't mandate education for varsity
> > football. It mandates general PE.
> >
> > They are spending money on education in music
> and
> > the arts all over the country.
>
> No they are not. I challenge you to point out one
> other state or school system that has marching
> band and that go to marching band competitions.
> Only FCPS wastes that kind of money.

There are lots and lots of marching band programs all over the country. The marching competitions the FCPS kids go to pull from all over Virginia.
The South has huge marching programs, as does the Midwest.
A quick internet search shows you that.

Go to You Tube.
Broaden your horizons and perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=high+school+marching+bands

t'ain't so has been awfully quiet-probably busy surfing through 14+ screens of high school performances on You Tube.

30497 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> t'ain't so has been awfully quiet-probably busy
> surfing through 14+ screens of high school
> performances on You Tube.


It actually says "2,000,000 results". FCPS is the only school system in the entire country who has marching band programs? Really now?

30497 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 30497 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > t'ain't so has been awfully quiet-probably busy
> > surfing through 14+ screens of high school
> > performances on You Tube.
>
>
> It actually says "2,000,000 results". FCPS is the
> only school system in the entire country who has
> marching band programs? Really now?

Maybe marching band is something FCPS just can't afford right now, don't they need to fix the planetariums and hire some more consultants?

Note that NONE are in Fairfax County. Grow up whiners:

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/2BVcrfP2E0-LJ9efx_TJ-A/10-high-school-football-stadiums-to-see-before-you-die.htm

30497 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=high+
> school+marching+bands

I don't get it. These other high schools are from poorer districts than Fairfax. Where are they getting their money?

t'ain't so Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 30497 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=high+
>
> > school+marching+bands
>
> I don't get it. These other high schools are from
> poorer districts than Fairfax. Where are they
> getting their money?

It isn't where they get their money but what they spend it on. These other districts aren't bringing in Flippen and Jensen at thousands a day, spending 80 thousand a month on travel, shipping people off to the Buck Institute in California, paying their superintendent $2,000/month in housing allowance, and underwriting nice meals, golf outings, and hotel stays for the school board members and senior administrators.

wrong question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> t'ain't so Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 30497 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> >
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=high+
>
> >
> > > school+marching+bands
> >
> > I don't get it. These other high schools are
> from
> > poorer districts than Fairfax. Where are they
> > getting their money?
>
> It isn't where they get their money but what they
> spend it on. These other districts aren't bringing
> in Flippen and Jensen at thousands a day, spending
> 80 thousand a month on travel, shipping people off
> to the Buck Institute in California, paying their
> superintendent $2,000/month in housing allowance,
> and underwriting nice meals, golf outings, and
> hotel stays for the school board members and
> senior administrators.

I still don't get it. You are talking maybe a cuple of million dollars a year in a 2 billion dollar budget. That's peanuts. The real money is being spend somewhere else. You complaining about small stuff in the big scheme of things.

FCPS has too many administrators, too many instructional coaches, too many people kicked upstairs to Gatehouse. There are too many sweetheart deals, such as these assistant band coaches and Boosterthon contracts. It is far more than a couple of million.

The travel alone is at least $960,000. 10 consultants at $10,000/day adds another $100,000. FCPS has not been foolish enough pay Flip Flippen his $10,000/hour speaking fee, but that's not to say it won't happen. Toss in Marie Lemmon's legal fees, you've got a million right there and that's the tip of the tip of the FCPS fiscal iceberg…

I still don't get it. You just laid out the numbers and it's less than 1% of the budget by your own statistics.

The overall county budget is just north of 2 billion, roughly half goes to the schools. There is waste and excessive spending all around. Some good examples have been given for school waste and the county spends a lot on departmental newsletters (many departments, many newsletters), mission/feature creep, overtime, trolley car studies, the ridiculous government center building, and so on.

Marching Band is a class. Classes have to be appropriately funded. It is a class because the state requires music education.

There is about $500,000 of appropriated funds a year allocated for the 25 Marching Band programs in the county. That is a drop in the budget bucket. The rest comes from donations and student fees. The primary teachers are under salary anyway to teach Band. They receive a salary supplement because of their additional duties, but that covers other after school rehearsals and evening concerts, etc. The programs receive a small amount of county money for instruments, but not nearly enough to cover the expenses. Student fees should be able to cover most of the uniform replacement costs.

They probably aren't the only school system to do it this way.

As far as the money spent on additional instruction, that is their choice to do that. They can do that. Instead of parents spending money to send kids away to a summer marching camp, you can do it local and use the same amount to pay additional instructors. Nothing wrong with that. The problem is that once school starts, you can't charge the kids and their parents for additional marching instructors because this is then part of a class. It is right in the course catalog. You can't charge for instruction. Only consumables. If programs want to do more than the basic evaluations/competitions that are covered by the appropriated funds, those have to be optional and a separate fee can be charged to the student to cover the costs. That fee can also cover the cost of subs to teach the kids who don't go.

t'ain't so Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RufbfjT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I believe the state curriculum mandates
> education
> > in music and the arts, and for good reason. It
> > certainly doesn't mandate education for varsity
> > football. It mandates general PE.
> >
> > They are spending money on education in music
> and
> > the arts all over the country.
>
> No they are not. I challenge you to point out one
> other state or school system that has marching
> band and that go to marching band competitions.
> Only FCPS wastes that kind of money.

Seriously? You think FCPS is the ONLY school district that competes in Marching Band? Really?

I'm afraid we're going to have to turn off your internet access, you obviously aren't using it to your full advantage.

^^^^^^^This poster was already referred to You Tube. That should have taken care of that. This poster has obviously been living under a rock.

wrong question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> t'ain't so Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 30497 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> >
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=high+
>
> >
> > > school+marching+bands
> >
> > I don't get it. These other high schools are
> from
> > poorer districts than Fairfax. Where are they
> > getting their money?
>
> It isn't where they get their money but what they
> spend it on. These other districts aren't bringing
> in Flippen and Jensen at thousands a day, spending
> 80 thousand a month on travel, shipping people off
> to the Buck Institute in California, paying their
> superintendent $2,000/month in housing allowance,
> and underwriting nice meals, golf outings, and
> hotel stays for the school board members and
> senior administrators.

Exactly.

It is an endless cycle: band parents beget band geeks, who grow up to be band parents and beget more band geeks.

The outpouring of support for convicted pervert and former band leader, Laurence Einuis, is proof of this. In England, fans of Gary Glitter (convicted pervert and glam rock singer) send him gifts and cash in jail. Sick, no other word for it.

"It is an endless cycle: band parents beget band geeks, who grow up to be band parents and beget more band geeks."

Nothing wrong with Band geeks. These are pretty good kids for the most part. You will always have a few bad apples in the bunch.

Assistant band coaches at $100 an hour is nothing. Eric Jensen has them beat by an order of magnitude (yes, over $1,000 an hour).

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/2154831.html

speaking of wasted money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Assistant band coaches at $100 an hour is nothing.
> Eric Jensen has them beat by an order of magnitude
> (yes, over $1,000 an hour).
>
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/215
> 4831.html


You might also have to factor in planning time when looking at the wage.

456

Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17.
Scottish author & novelist (1771 - 1832)

jH7Hk

Attention McLean Marching Band-

This is the draft for the upcoming school year.
Note on page 8 under the Marching Band Camp activity fee that it only applies to the camp in August. They deleted the part about the mythical "Marching Band Camp after school starts". The price has also come down. It was $340 this year and will be $215 next year unless things change.

Rehearsals are still mandatory.

You are owed a refund for this year and last year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are going to have to drum up donations for your megabuck additional instructors. The plus side of this is that you can probably take a tax deduction for your donation.

Your course materials fee is going up $35. That can't be used for instructors.

There you go.
Attachments:

.

kkyGY

<<<>>>

I just checked with Ms. Reilly at McLean and she has offered me a refund for the payment in question.

Remember the story about how Chris Weise supposedly told the Comptroller that all after school rehearsals were completely optional? This was the actual story. No kidding.

Here is a signed copy of the commitment form he sent out to everybody where a parent and a student signed agreeing that they were completely mandatory.

You couldn't make this up if you tried.............
Attachments:

It all depends on what the meaning of mandatory is.

lawyeresq Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It all depends on what the meaning of mandatory
> is.

This doesn't look very optional.

Optional means you don't have to sign anything saying that you agree to show up and approve any absence as soon as possible with the teacher.

Optional means you can show up whenever you want and don't owe anybody any explanation unless you want to. This was obviously not the case here.

These kids had to show up. It doesn't matter what the consequences were. They were supposed to honor their signed commitment form. They and the parents had a responsibility. The calendar also said all rehearsals were required. That is another word for mandatory.
Attachments:

That's why it would have been better to use the term "optional requirement." There may be some confusion over the difference between optional requirement and mandatory. I have no doubt this can be resolved.

lawyeresq Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's why it would have been better to use the
> term "optional requirement." There may be some
> confusion over the difference between optional
> requirement and mandatory. I have no doubt this
> can be resolved.


This is bullshit.

full of crap- Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lawyeresq Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's why it would have been better to use the
> > term "optional requirement." There may be some
> > confusion over the difference between optional
> > requirement and mandatory. I have no doubt
> this
> > can be resolved.
>
>
> This is bullshit.


http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/141420/better-word-for-optional-requirements

If a McLean parent wants a refund the number to call is 703-714-5706. Talk to Sue.

wrong on both counts: the correct number is: 703-319-2300 and Greg is the contact.

Pretty soon the only music program left will be marching band as that is needed for football and FCPS thinks that's the most important thing there is.

wrongnumber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wrong on both counts: the correct number is:
> 703-319-2300 and Greg is the contact.


No. Talk to Sue.

MbdtY

I'm only posting this now because obviously Barb is bumping it to the top to get more attention.

Thanks to all for not feeding the Barb troll. If you look back over the last posts, it's obvious she is really the only person posting anymore.

Go home Barb. Nobody cares anymore.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fubar

¥

4-5-6

So, McLean, the word is that they screwed you over and don't want to admit it.

Can anybody think of a logical reason that a "camp" going on until late October could be a "summer camp"? What calendar are they using?

Speak up!

Dear McLean Band-

In case you didn't realize it, you have the right to sue the school system due to what they did to you with this fee. They violated your rights protected under the laws of Virginia.

ACLU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear McLean Band-
>
> In case you didn't realize it, you have the right
> to sue the school system due to what they did to
> you with this fee. They violated your rights
> protected under the laws of Virginia.


Here's your contact information.

https://www.aclu.org/affiliate/virginia

[ACLU] Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ACLU Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dear McLean Band-
> >
> > In case you didn't realize it, you have the
> right
> > to sue the school system due to what they did
> to
> > you with this fee. They violated your rights
> > protected under the laws of Virginia.
>
>
> Here's your contact information.
>
> https://www.aclu.org/affiliate/virginia


Ask for Leslie.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/criminal

Bunch of crooks.

YU3kM

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/greed

Yd9XX

OK, folks. It is time to check your spring (and other) trips. Pull the student payment spreadsheet. Everybody is supposed to pay the same price, whether they fundraise or not. If somebody is getting a "scholarship" (which is a doctored up term for an earmarked "donation" for them") then that amount needs to be funded from something other than the other travelers. It should be very obvious on the spreadsheet. The total payments on the spreadsheet should basically equal the total income on the accounting data. It starts getting goofy when people back out and get partial refunds. You have the right to see a detailed breakdown showing this information. The number of kids traveling X the cost of the trip = the amount collected. If it doesn't, ask some questions. You have the right to see all travel agency documents, all correspondence, all the math calculations, etc. You just can't see the names of the students.

And for God's sake everybody should be paid in full by now. School is finished in three weeks! You could be surprised at what goes on. People actually sign their kid up for these things, pay for half the trip or whatever, put their kid on the bus, and then try to walk away from their obligations. And the school system encourages this! They all seem to think money grows on trees. They also seem to think that every single child deserves to go on these things whether they pay for them or not, and that the other travelers feel the same way. They figure nobody is going to look at the spreadsheet or do the math, and that they can shift any surplus money collected and use it pay for these kids. Nope.

You are only obligated to fund your child's trip, NOT trips for other children. These are optional trips. They have the option to NOT GO.

Check the expenses. Are they appropriate? You can be charged the cost for subs for the kids who don't go on the trip.

If there is any surplus, you are entitled to a refund.

If the principal or teacher wants to give somebody a good deal, let them pay for it out of THEIR money. They let them travel without paying in full. That's THEIR problem. They aren't supposed to do this, anyway.

We just like to "redistribute" the money.

Interesting who is she I thin I know her

so disappointed

The whole concept of marching band is ridiculous!

Many years ago I was in an FCPS High school marching band and after the second year I said "I quit". My mother didn't like it but I really hated it. Now, I was a serious musician, went on to play professionally and was in the Army Band. When my kids were in high school I went to a few football games, just to watch, and the half time band performances sounded like cats wailing. The idea that you can walk around and play an instrument is foolish. How many symphony orchestras do you see standing up and doing dance routines while playing?

Get rid of marching bands entirely, actually for that matter get rid of high school bands too. No kid gets better just playing in a high school band!

Goose Step Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get rid of marching bands entirely, actually for
> that matter get rid of high school bands too. No
> kid gets better just playing in a high school
> band!

It was at this point that the story of you being a "serious musician" and "in the Army Band" becomes an obvious lie.