shit show

A description of an event or situation which is characterized by an ridiculously inordinate amount of frenetic activity. Disorganization and chaos to an absurd degree. Often associated with extreme ineptitude/incompetence and or sudden and unexpected failure.

Similar:
fiasco clusterfuck

FCPS has been tasked with producing some FCPS employment contracts for the supplemental personnel for Centreville and Herndon.

This is cute.
Herndon Orchestra trip.
I was told the money was going to the Booster group. "Make out your checks to HOBO."
Yet, I am showed a school accounting data printout. And the accounting sheet has other entries on it besides trip records. Trips should be entirely separate.

So, apparently, the parents wrote the checks for the trip to the parent group, who put them in their checking account, then wrote big checks to the school system. Horrible idea. Don't do this.

It is also noted that the teacher signed the contract with the travel agency. Teachers are not authorized to commit school activity funds. Period. End of discussion. They can be held personally liable for the contract. Don't do this.

So, your trip money went into a Booster account that may or may not have had adequate or proper insurance on the money or the officer liability. If it disappeared, what were you going to do? If you file an insurance claim it might take a long time to settle it, if they pay up at all. In the meantime, you want your kid to go on the trip you paid for. The school insurance isn't going to cover losses from a Booster club bank account. The Booster club may or may not have adequate reserves to self-insure. If they don't, you are in quite a bind. And in the meantime, the travel agent wants to be paid and you want your trip. So here are the options-

1-Fork over MORE money for the trip and hope to be reimbursed. Eventually. Maybe. Maybe not.


2-The teacher is personally liable for the trip since she signed the contract and didn't have the right to do that. Maybe she has a tidy chunk of money she is willing to put out so that your kids can travel.

3-The Booster club officers can take a loan against their home equity or sell some personal securities to cover the lost money, since this they agreed to do this in the first place.

Contrast this with what would happen if a finance tech took off with the money. The school system would cover the funds out of the millions of dollars they have in reserve, and file an insurance claim if needed, and deal with all the legal stuff. Not your problem.

DON'T WRITE CHECKS TO BOOSTER CLUBS FOR TRIPS.
Attachments:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/crime-law/suncoast-band-director-ernest-brown-indicted-on-fr/nL4Cd/

http://www.ksbw.com/news/central-california/hollister-gilroy/hollister-high-booster-club-leader-accused-of-embezzlement/24798888

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/942LQF57A804/$file/R4310.pdf

Every single adult paid to help out with a school-sponsored activity is supposed to be fingerprinted, run through the sex offender registry, have a TB test, etc. Even if they are on temporary or hourly assignment. You can't just bring in somebody to help out with a class because they are a friend of the teacher's, not screen them, and pay them out of funds from a private corporation. The liability with this is tremendous. You expose 200 children to TB, or find out you have a registered sex offender working with children, and the school system can't prove they did the proper screening...........

Are there any contracts on all these supplemental instructors? Let's see. The school system said "no records". Maybe they didn't understand the question. Let's hope so.

West Potomac has more problems.

First of all, remember that this was Booster group who signed the MOA agreeing that all Marching Band money was going to be processed through school accounts and that Booster payments were supposed to be marked optional. Reference the FAQ's and the Guidelines. They then turned right around and violated the MOA and the FAQ's and the Guidelines and Reg. 5810 that they contracted to follow and sent out a whopping bill for $140, DUE NOW, not marked as optional, and told the parents it was a "Booster payment", which was a figment of somebody's imagination, and to top it off, they told the parents to write the check out to the school system.

They then took those checks and put them into THEIR bank account, NOT a school account. Check fraud? Absconding with public funds? ANY money associated with students and their classes is school activity funds and is supposed to run through school accounts. So, those records belong to the school system. To top it off, the teacher is a major player on the Budget committee, which planned the whole darn thing, and has the right to make independent non-budgetary decisions to disburse the funds, but nobody wants to talk about what this county employee did. Nice. You really screwed this up.

And now the school system doesn't want to talk about what happened and they either aren't going to or can't get any records out of the Boosters. Just peachy.

The MOA isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

Now, to top it off, the school can't produce any records on the FCPS fee they billed you for. The OTHER $140. They were asked in late June for one little bank statement, a very simple printout of the accounting data showing income and expenses, a very simple student payment spreadsheet, and one little itty bitty canceled check showing to whom the checks were made out to and who signed the back. "There aren't any responsive records. Maybe in mid-August." This is a huge problem, people. Aside from the canceled check, everything should just be a simple click and print thing that you should be able to walk into the front office of the school and ask for. Under FOIA they have 12 working days to produce, or they have to get a court order for an extension, or they are in violation. Big bucks. This was simple, basic information from LAST FALL. How can you "not have responsive records"? It's JULY, for God's sake. There is no believable reason why they don't have this information or can't get it in 12 working days. This is not normal at all. Problems, problems, problems. What DID they do with your money? Where ARE the records? Where IS the money? Where DID it go might be another good question. There are some very confused people involved in this.

And the school wants more. $180 was due June 15th. They "don't have any records" on that, either. The checks are supposed to be deposited immediately and logged into the system. There should certainly be a partial student payment spreadsheet, one canceled check, and one bank statement or printout of bank account activity available. But, N-O-O-O. Really?

You probably could have written off some or all of the $140 you were soaked for with the "Booster payment" that was a complete ruse. Little late now. They want $185 from you this year. As soon as possible. I wouldn't give them one dollar. If they can't follow instructions, violate a written agreement and multiple school regulations, and take checks made out to the school and put them in their own bank account, no way.

I would be ringing up the front office and asking some major questions right about NOW. It looks like your Regional Superintendent has disappeared, so you can't contact them. Dan Storck hasn't been returning messages. Good luck.

It is what it is. You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried. For some reason, I think it is going to get even worse.
Attachments:

Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive. - Sir Walter Scott (Marmion, 1808).

Here is a trip with Fairfax Band and Orchestra. Total of about 150 kids, $650 a person.
The information I was presented with showed that the checks were to be written to the parent groups.

I asked for signed contracts, student payment spreadsheets, receipts, accounting data showing income and expenses. Pretty basic stuff.

I received some student payment spreadsheets, a couple of things regarding the travel agent expenses for only the Chorus, no signed contracts, no accounting data.

NICE JOB, guys. Just the way you want about $100,000 handled and closed out. What the heck went on here? This is all you have on $100,000? You have some explaining to do. Where are all the records? In somebody's kitchen drawer? In a box in somebody's basement? You can buy a house for $100,000 in some places.


See that FS-141? This was a contract with the principal of Fairfax High School and FCPS. They own every scrap of paper you have on this trip. You all should be ashamed of this. Parents, school officials, everybody. More information has been requested. What the Hell did you all do?

Looks like there are a few people who are owed some significant refunds. Good luck with that. You are on your own.
Attachments:

And it also looks like they were giving some big discounts. The other travelers don't have to pay for those. That money is supposed to be covered from another source. This is frightening. Were there contracts? Who signed them? Does anybody really know how this was all calculated? Was it even calculated? Who knows....

Here is the information I was given on these "trips". Total of about $100,000. Where are the signed contracts? Is there any accounting data to prove your work? Any receipts? Who DID process this $100,000?
Attachments:

Oh, Woodson. Woodson, Woodson, Woodson. Home of the $100+ band bill that "we can't make you pay but is essential to this program so we are doing it anyway and hurry up and pay it, it is due now or the world will end, and you can get some of it back when you sell the Cavalier cards we are issuing you that we aren't supposed to be doing either". With the teacher's name on it.

Seems the school system is having some trouble getting some very simple records from the W.T. Woodson Band Patrons on a Marching Band trip to Newport News from last Fall. A trip that was supposed to either run through the Cloud or be handled by the school system. It had a full-fledged FS-141 on it, making it a school trip all the way. That is the only thing presented so far. The checks were made out to the school program, NOT the Boosters. Just where did they go? Just what did you do and why? What was the agreement with the school staff regarding this? You have created a rather expensive, time-consuming problem for the school system. They have been messing with you for as long as THREE WEEKS, and they are out of time, and are asking for an extension. Are you going to be like the others and keep crappy records and not cooperate with the school system, making yourselves look really bad in the process? There is no pride to be had with acting like that. If you did anything with that trip you were acting as an agent of the school system. They are the custodian of any related records that you hold regarding that trip, and you both have enormous legal obligations to fulfill. Money was taken from children for a class trip. Helpless, innocent, minor children who cannot speak for themselves.

There should not be any "problems". Everything should be in the Cloud or in the front office and everything should be JUST FINE.

You need to hurry it up.
Attachments:

Here are the major players in this drama.
Attachments:

shit show



A description of an event or situation which is characterized by an ridiculously inordinate amount of frenetic activity. Disorganization and chaos to an absurd degree. Often associated with extreme ineptitude/incompetence and or sudden and unexpected failure.

Similar:
fiasco clusterfuck

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=clusterfuck

Farifax HS "trips" Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is the information I was given on these
> "trips". Total of about $100,000. Where are the
> signed contracts? Is there any accounting data to
> prove your work? Any receipts? Who DID process
> this $100,000?


Your trip and anybody involved in processing it have been turned in to be evaluated for Fraud and/or gross negligence. You can't go taking $100,000 from kids (or anybody) and not carefully account for it. I suggest some people start hunting up some records. And to all those involved in this little game, think twice next time when you handle public records and public funds, and you get a FOIA request. Whatever you hand out is whatever you hand out, and you are telling the world that is all you have. And if you hand out nothing, you have just set yourself up to be investigated. This is just too important.

How dare you do this to these children and their parents.

Why isn't there more information on these trips? I am glad somebody is taking a look at these. I had no idea this was going on. I assumed everything was taken care of.

Oh, isn't this special. There WERE more documents on these trips. So who knowingly and willfully withheld public records? That's a $2000 fine. How did you all like being identified for the whole world? Been arguing the last week or two? Look at the accounting data, contracts, etc. The checks were written to the Boosters and then they wrote big checks to the school system. Naughty naughty.

PARENTS, DO NOT WRITE CHECKS TO BOOSTER CLUBS FOR SCHOOL TRIPS. School policy is to write the checks directly to the school system and put them into a heavily insured school account. Goldfarb and the Boosters have been submitted for multiple major regulatory violations and gross negligence. Do NOT, under ANY circumstances, let people convince you to write a check to a Booster club for a school trip and they will write a group check. While the money is in the Booster account the insurance is very shaky. The officer liability coverage is probably not there, either. Your money is at tremendous risk. The officers are putting themselves at tremendous risk. DON'T DO IT. Do not circumvent the safety mechanisms that following school regulation protocol provide.

Officers, you have a responsibility to your families and your Booster club to refuse to do something this dangerous. By agreeing to do this you have shown the entire county how poor your judgment is, how you ignore school policies, don't have the guts to talk to somebody when you are ask to do things that are against school policies, etc. You endangered the money of dozens and dozens of families. You should be relieved of your duties. If Goldfarb tries to make you do this again, call your Superintendent, call your School Board member, call SOMEBODY and report him. He has no business doing this to volunteers. Putting funds and families at risk. SAY NO. It isn't worth it. Goldfarb isn't going to do a damn thing for you if somebody takes off with the money. And your insurance very well might not, either. Do you have AIM or RV Nuccio? Read your policies.
Attachments:

This is also special. This is for 2015-16 but it relates to Fairfax and the other schools who did this 2014-15.

I was told TJ had to send back checks that parents wrote for their Orkney trip this summer. They were ordered in the registration packet to write $350 checks to the Booster club for it. They had to void the checks and the parents had to write new checks. To the school. This was not sent out with the original packet I received.

I would bet that was fun.

Do NOT write checks to a Booster club for school trips. That means no "travel supplements", also. All expenses for a school trip are public record and all funds collected and spent are public funds. No creative names.
Attachments:

After quite a bit of excitement and much heated discussion, Woodson coughed up some trip records. From last fall. This almost involved FCPS applying for a court-ordered extension on the statutory 12 day response time. Something about "Booster vacations" influencing retrieving public records. For a school trip. A trip that should have had all records in the front office. Because it was a SCHOOL TRIP, from LAST FALL, and Boosters should not be hanging on to public records on a SCHOOL TRIP from LAST FALL.

Note that there are over 20 kids who didn't pay for their trip. It looks like the costs were passed on to the other travelers in that if all the fees had been collected, there should have been a surplus. This is an old, sneaky trick. Travelers don't have to pay for those who don't. If somebody is getting a break, funds have to be deposited from somebody/somewhere/something to cover for them.

It is not the dollar amount. It is the principle. They will try to do this with $800+ trips if you don't say NO. You pay for your own child, and if you want to help out others, that has to be arranged separately. They can't just give out free or discounted trips and jack up the price (which is what they are doing) for the other travelers to cover the difference. That is School Board policy.
Attachments:

Why do you have a line showing "Annual Trip to Uniform Reserves" on here? This looks like this is routine. This even has its own number. This is not a standard trip "expense".

Any surplus from trips has to be offered back to the families. That is school policy. If they don't want it, and want to donate it, fine. Putting it on a line like this looks like you do this all the time.

It looks like you were in the hole on this trip. I suppose if somebody or something wants to donate $7,500 they can do that. There is such a thing as upping the fee per person. If the parent group raised all this money, it could then be used for other things.
Attachments:

OK so it looks like the majority of people helping out the Herndon Band for money "don't have any contracts" with FCPS. Maybe. Possibly. They are "subs and hourly". But, "no contracts"? Huh? It sounds like they are not being screened by the school system. Maybe. Possibly. Who knows? The Herndon Band parents signed a contract with the school system agreeing to abide by all school regulations, and then they turned around and ignored it, ran money for an FCPS fee through their bank account instead of a school account, brought in whoever and are paying them without proper screening by the school system. Maybe. Possibly. Who knows?

I am supposed to identify who the people are who are being paid to help out with the kids at Centreville Band with money demanded of students by a teacher and funneled through the Booster club, so they can look for contracts, when there "aren't any records". Remember The Band Booster group "who doesn't have any records"? The ones who are going to do a tax return "without any records"? The ones who "don't have any records" on $15,000+? The ones who had a contract with the school system to follow all school regulations and completely ignored that? Yes, them.

This is so sad. Parents, anybody dealing with your kids, helping out with a school-sponsored class or activity, is supposed to be screened, fingerprinted, and be on contract with the school system. This obviously isn't happening.

Dear West Potomac Band parents----

The school system says they cannot produce one little measly canceled check, a copy of the bank statement from the bank where it was deposited, or provide any accounting data or student payment records for the FCPS Band consumables payment you made LAST FALL. Yes. That is what they are saying. They are blaming it on a BOOSTER OFFICER, saying that ALL these records for this FCPS PAYMENT are "locked up in their house and that they are out of town" for weeks. "Out of the country." Really. Seriously. They are adamant. In this age of electronic banking. The 21st century. Apparently only ONE PERSON in your organization has the right to access this type of information. DO YOU REALIZE HOW DANGEROUS THAT IS????????????

This was an FCPS PAYMENT. These payments were supposed to go DIRECTLY into a school bank account, have the money logged into the FCPS system or FCPS cloud (all of which the school system has complete access to 24/7/365), have a full printout of accounting data showing usage of the FCPS funds for your program at the ready on a moment's notice. Because all the funds had to be disbursed by the principal of West Potomac. If the officers in your organization were helping out the school system under the MOA they indeed signed, they apparently are in FLAGRANT VIOLATION OF THE MOA they signed agreeing to turn in all records of this nature within one month, and to keep all these records in the FCPS Charms system as per the written agreement, and put the checks INTO THE CORRECT BANK ACCOUNT. This was LAST FALL. 2014. Nice job. Where are these public funds and public records? Booster officers, WHAT DID YOU DO? WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? You signed a contract. With a school system. That contract is BINDING. They have the right to OBTAIN A COURT ORDER on your organization and send an officer of the law (probably wearing a hat, a badge, and a firearm) knocking on doors to recover these student funds and records if you are not cooperative. Which according to the school system, YOU AREN'T.

They apparently are prepared to stand by this story UNDER OATH IN A COURT OF LAW in the very likely event they have to talk their way out of a writ of mandamus. THEY ARE BLAMING THE WHOLE SITUATION ON YOU. A bunch of volunteers. VOLUNTEERS. I have no idea how they would explain this situation to the judge or how the judge could even keep a straight face when they hear this story. A school system that can't keep track of this basic information, a school system that allows volunteers to act like this, a school system that is trying to blame their incompetence and/or confusion on VOLUNTEERS and walk away from their responsibilities UNDER STATE LAW.

If you have any concerns about the payment you made (and you should have some major concerns), or don't like the REALLY REALLY NASTY UGLY things they are saying about you, call 571-423-1010 and ask for the Legal department. Mr. Foster is your contact.

DO YOU REALIZE HOW SERIOUS THIS IS???????????

I would be picking up the phone first thing if I were you.

...
Attachments:

shit show --

A description of an event or situation which is characterized by a ridiculously inordinate amount of frenetic activity. Disorganization and chaos to an absurd degree. Often associated with extreme ineptitude/incompetence and or sudden and unexpected failure.

Similar:
fiasco clusterfuck

Yup. They are trash talking you Big Time. All that work, and you are taking the fall. As volunteers. They are prepared to tell the world what you did and throw you right under the bus. It's all your fault.

BFF?

Not to worry. They did the exact same thing to the Woodson Band parents. They supposedly had a whole bunch of public records from a trip last Fall. The school "couldn't get them" this summer (for last Fall) because a "Booster was on vacation". Really. The checks were put into the FCPS Band account. But, they couldn't find anything but the FS-141. No hotel contract, nothing. This Booster "came back early" and these things miraculously appeared. Really? You have a lot of nerve hanging on to public records, MOA or not. That is very irresponsible of you. Just how did the principal pay all these bills if they weren't presented with this stuff? Every payment issued is supposed to have supporting documentation readily available. Did the Finance tech not keep a copy? They are blaming it all on YOU. The Boosters. Volunteers.

You don't like being talked about like that, call Mr. Foster. 571-423-1010. He is blaming all the troubles FCPS has on Booster clubs. Bad mouthing you guys left and right. Volunteers.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-foster/11/435/481

isthishim??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> https://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-foster/11/435/48
> 1


Yes. Not once have I heard "we assume the responsibility for these fees and issues". The general response is "quite simply we only have to produce what we prepare or possess" even though they sucked a bunch of Booster clubs into the MOA and then failed to enforce it numerous times when they and the staff totally screwed it up. "We are working on improving our relationship with Booster clubs" instead of "we are dedicated to enforcing school regulations and state educational laws and will hold all staff accountable in order to protect families". Every excuse under the sun. "But we gave you other stuff. What do you mean you need that stuff you asked for?" Late FOIA responses, no FOIA responses, to Hell with you. Etc. etc. etc.

Some people don't seem to understand that a class and an activity are priced out very differently. Nobody seems to be concerned that overcharging for a class is against the law. The VAC? Pshaw. We will just bully the families into paying up and come up with lame excuses for ignoring school regs and gleefully run to the bank with it. If somebody complains we will just bluff our way through it. I would bet the Legal office is playing a major role in that. McLean, are you listening?

Dies Irae Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> isthishim??? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> https://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-foster/11/435/48
>
> > 1
>
>
> Yes. Not once have I heard "we assume the
> responsibility for these fees and issues". The
> general response is "quite simply we only have to
> produce what we prepare or possess" even though
> they sucked a bunch of Booster clubs into the MOA
> and then failed to enforce it numerous times when
> they and the staff totally screwed it up. "We are
> working on improving our relationship with Booster
> clubs" instead of "we are dedicated to enforcing
> school regulations and state educational laws and
> will hold all staff accountable in order to
> protect families". Every excuse under the sun.
> "But we gave you other stuff. What do you mean you
> need that stuff you asked for?" Late FOIA
> responses, no FOIA responses, to Hell with you.
> Etc. etc. etc.
>
> Some people don't seem to understand that a class
> and an activity are priced out very differently.
> Nobody seems to be concerned that overcharging for
> a class is against the law. The VAC? Pshaw. We
> will just bully the families into paying up and
> come up with lame excuses for ignoring school regs
> and gleefully run to the bank with it. If somebody
> complains we will just bluff our way through it. I
> would bet the Legal office is playing a major role
> in that. McLean, are you listening?

Another tactic is to advise the FOIA office to just NOT supply the correct records or answer the question at hand, and to do this over and over and over, with the theory being the person will eventually give up. I would bet somebody in the Legal office is behind that game, and he is in charge of the Legal office.

That tactic will bite you right in the ass eventually.

Here is another one-

Just don't sent something in response to a FOIA request, then when they point it out, have the staff say "oh here is a courtesy copy".

Oh and then there was the person with the FCPS email account but "we don't have to release contracts" but they actually do but she "didn't have a contract" but really did. (!) And the Band helpers who are subs and hourly but "don't have contracts" you understand even though they are required to have contracts and screening.

If you talk in circles enough you might be able to bluff 80% of people 80% of the time. You just have to deal with the remaining 20% who see through the bull crap.

The Fairfax County School Board has been presented with a notice of intent to file a petition for Writ of Mandamus/Injunctive Relief as of this morning. They have not met their obligations under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act. They are off by miles. That is a very, very bad thing to do.

The name of the petitioner has been redacted in order for followers of this site to more clearly focus on the issues at hand and the culpable parties involved, rather than take out their inappropriate remarks on the petitioner, who is the victim.

The procedure from here is that they have three days to produce the requested records or this can/will be filed with Circuit Court of Fairfax County, VA and an expedited court date can be obtained.

This is regarding the West Potomac High School Band issue brought up earlier. This is easy to read, but here is the summary-

There was an FCPS fee of $140 for West Potomac Marching Band last year. There was also an FCPS fee of $20 for Concert Band. Both were for Consumables. On June 24, 2015 it was requested that the school supply a student payment spreadsheet, the front and back of one canceled check used to pay either fee, the corresponding bank statement, and the accounting data printout showing the usage of these funds and the deposits made for the last year. Very simple. Very basic material. A few computer strokes required, maybe a contact to the bank to pull one check. Minimal work. Really.

The West Potomac Band Patrons Organization signed the MOA to help the school system. As you all know, if Boosters were helping with FCPS fees, these fees were supposed to go directly into an FCPS bank account, and the records were supposed to be kept in the FCPS computer system. FCPS CHARMS was also set up for this.

FCPS had 5 days to respond to the request. On July 1 they mailed a letter along with a disc that arrived Fourth of July weekend (after a reminder email had been sent as the disc had not arrived yet). They reported that "there were no responsive records at this time; we anticipate the documents will be available mid-August". This is not an acceptable response, plus, if the fees were collected last Fall, the records should have been available.

A letter was sent from Mr. Mandelbaum (Counsel for the Petitioner) on July 9th telling them this was not an appropriate response, that the procedure was to petition the court for an extension, and that this did not look like an appropriate situation to be needing an extension for as these records are very simply and uncomplicated. FCPS was reminded that willful and knowing withholding of public records can carry a $2000 fine, on top of the legal fees for the petitioner they have to pay.

The school system sent the notice that they needed the additional 7 days that they can take, dated July 14th. The calculated this on the follow-up request, NOT the original, which still was open, as it had not been properly responded to and closed out.

They were almost a week overdue on the response following the additional 7 days, a request was put in on July 29th for immediate proof that a disc had been mailed, or records needed to be sent via email. 6pm deadline.

Mr. Foster, Division Counsel, immediately responded to Mr. Mandelbaum and said that the Booster club had the records (so the records DO exist-what happened to the "no responsive records" claim from July 1st?) and that they couldn't get them because they were in the Booster Treasurer's house and it was locked, and they could not get access. Records that should be in the FCPS computer system, in the FCPS bank account information, easily obtained by the owner of the computer system and bank account-FCPS. They should not need a Booster volunteer to get this information. He asked for a handshake agreement to extend the response to August 10th. The Booster is "out of the country".

They are grossly overdue on their response times no matter how you look at it, their reasoning for not being able to provide records does not make sense, the petitioner refused to agree to a handshake agreement, and this document was prepared over the weekend and submitted to FCPS this morning.

Who wants to bet on whether FCPS can produce the requested documents that are "supposedly unavailable" within three days or if it will be necessary to file in Circuit Court? Is that Booster Treasurer who is "out of the country" going to hop on a plane and "come back early" for this? Mr. Foster says it is all his fault, even though all this information should be easily accessible by FCPS. He is adamant about this. Are they ever going to produce any records? This whole thing smacks of empty promises and smoke and mirrors. Money was taken from students. For a class. This should be very straightforward.

There are an additional 40 pages or so, showing the correspondence between the lawyers, the page showing the FCPS fees that was sent out by Steve the Booster President last year (and just why did he do that? all fee information was supposed to be disseminated by the school system), the Guidelines for use of Booster Organizations, the Power Point of the Booster presentation in February of 2014 showing how the CHARMS system was going to work, the signed MOA between the Band Boosters and the School system, etc. It's all there.

This whole story and a copy of the 49 page document is being disseminated all over the county, the state, and the country right now. We all know how people watch the schools, particularly FCPS.

Remember that according to the MOA if the Booster club was non-compliant with the terms of the MOA, FCPS had the right to demand all funds and records be turned in to them within three days. If Mr. Foster is correct, they were non-compliant. What was the principal doing all year about this? How was he paying the bills from the FCPS funds that were collected?

Congratulations. It was bound to happen.
Attachments:

Writ of Mandamus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The name of the petitioner [...] who is the victim.


Dear Barbara:

You are not a victim.

My name is Barb Brown. I am a crazy bitch. That is all.

Respectfully,

Barb Brown

Hey West Potomac Band---Anybody in a legal lather?

1. Read the MOA that the parents signed, the Guidelines, etc.
------or--------
2. Call Mr. Foster. This whole thing is his idea.

It is what it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ob4YhzKVyc

I would say this sums it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YRDh8l1XT4

So does this.

Berlioz lover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YRDh8l1XT4
>
> So does this.


A day of wrath, that day, when all the world will be dissolved into ashes, as prophesied by David with the Sybil.

...all the world...

...including the self-appointed policeman...

Surely you're not conflating the general judgment with the possible rectification of minor slights committed by people who are trying to enhance the education of their own children.

Ashes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Berlioz lover Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YRDh8l1XT4
> >
> > So does this.
>
>
> A day of wrath, that day, when all the world will
> be dissolved into ashes, as prophesied by David
> with the Sybil.
>
> ...all the world...
>
> ...including the self-appointed policeman...
>
> Surely you're not conflating the general judgment
> with the possible rectification of minor slights
> committed by people who are trying to enhance the
> education of their own children.

So the Boosters of West Po Band entered into a contract with the school system and then took County funds and enriched their own bank account? Are you trying to justify this behavior as "enhancing the education of their children"?
This is not a minor slight. This is criminal activity. Filling your own bank account with gov. funds? Thieves always try to justify their actions just like this.

The Herndon Band Parents took county money and put it into their bank account. They had the parents write the checks for pre-season (which was labeled an FCPS activity) to them instead of the county, and put the money into their bank account. They also signed the MOA. How many others did this?

TJ Band tried to do it this year with the summer trip. The parents were told to write the checks for Orkney to the Booster club, they had to return checks and ask for new ones made out to the school. The teacher is claiming responsibility. Good. They should. "A typo." Right. But, an officer in a parent non-profit is obligated to follow all school policies. And that means county funds go straight to a county account. Did the officers say NO right up front to that? When the checks started rolling in did anybody say something or did they just rub their hands with glee and keep quiet about it?

I don't know why I'm bothering to contribute, because I know you are an imbalanced person - but I feel compelled to say...

what these booster groups did was not the correct thing to do - they did not follow protocol. However, we're talking about employees who have dedicated their lives to serving children, and parents who are dedicating their time and energy to serving music programs - why do you insist on making it sound as if you KNOW they are taking that money with a gleeful and evil grin to go off on some lavish shopping spree with public funds? It's MUCH more likely that the money is going into the booster account (albeit incorrectly), and then appropriate items are being purchased for the band through the boosters. It's probably just things getting paid for from a different place - not that they're taking the money and buying cars with it or something. I'm not excusing away the error - just saying you shouldn't be assuming that there is some evil money making scheme going on. Now, your next line is "well I can't tell if they don't give me records". You're right... and they should get you records. But your assumptions are at this point unfounded, and to make it sound otherwise to the public is inappropriate.

I fail to understand how someone so vigilant about their rights under FOIA and so interested in the legal system can be so dismissive about 'innocent until proven guilty'. Right now, West Po is guilty of not giving you records. They are not guilty at this moment of taking public money and running wild on a shopping spree, as you are implying

staccato Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
or did they just rub their hands with
> glee and keep quiet about it?

You need help.

"I fail to understand how someone so vigilant about their rights under FOIA and so interested in the legal system can be so dismissive about 'innocent until proven guilty'. Right now, West Po is guilty of not giving you records. They are not guilty at this moment of taking public money and running wild on a shopping spree, as you are implying."




The school system is the party not providing public records in accordance with Virginia FOIA. This falls on the School Board. Whatever has caused that is still to be determined. Whatever was done with the funds is still to be determined. The petitioner is very obviously being denied their rights under Virginia law. THAT is the only definite, it is very obvious, the deadlines and requirements are clearly not being followed, and that is all that matters right now. YOU are the one jumping to conclusions.

It is what it is. And what Herndon and TJ and anybody else did is what it is. Start taking responsibility for your actions and start acting like responsible people. You can't take county funds and put them into a non-profit bank account. You were all told that. Numerous times. In writing. Many of you signed contracts saying you understood that. Did you just sign those contracts as a joke and then want to do whatever you wanted to do? Bad move there. Even if you didn't sign the contract, you are still supposed to follow all school policies. County funds go directly into a county account. Period.

Many of YOU are very imbalanced. People who don't follow policies they are supposed to follow and then get caught, and then try to scramble for higher moral ground, are very sick. Wake up.

"Thieves always try to justify their actions just like this"

"rub their hands with glee and keep quiet about it?"


We are largely in agreement. I'm not arguing anything you just said. It's correct, and it's their responsibility. What I am arguing is comments like I quoted above that imply some sinister plan that the 'stolen' money is for. I'm just saying it's likely still going to the kids and the music group, albeit not the correct way. And that needs to be corrected, yes.

You just make a lot of comments about the things that are not 'definites' as you put it. That's what I take issue with. You make a lot of assumptions - an example would be you replying to me as if I'm one of the employees caught up in these examples. I'm not.

For someone who cares so deeply about open government and transparency for the public, you throw many assumption-based comments out there that obscures the public perception. Public seeing the unobstructed truth, I thought, was your point in all of this. So why make editorial commentary that isn't based on fact? It doesn't make sense. You want the public to see what's going on. So, when we aren't sure what's going on because you didn't get the records, you begin making comments that imply the worst. Your next line is "I can make whatever comments I please". Of course you can - it undermines your point though

Profile of a Sociopath:

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Summary:

If you don't like The Plan, put your kid in private school.
illegal bills
very unsavory stuff
Shame on you
You should know better. Shame on you.
Staff can go to jail.
You people all need to hush up
gouging parents
QUIT WHINING AND COMPLAINING
cut that crap out.
It hurts everybody when you drive up to school in your Lexus
Get over it.
put your kid in Flint Hill or Madeira.
quit being difficult.
you just have to adjust your expectations and goals down a little.
quit wasting the time of the school officials with arrogant testing of the system.
there is probably more of this going on under the surface and off the record and behind the scenes.
we are all in the implementation phase of things.
raise Holy Hell. Immediately.
slush fund.
I think a lot of people just went totally overboard and got out of line
I think a lot of them don't care about doing what is right
They just want to be difficult and obnoxious
When people act like that it is usually for a reason.
I think there are some groups who are trying to skirt around the new system.
Whatever. It's just a Booster group. You don't run the world.
I am immune to the likes of you.
your arguments are futile.
loved the part about contacting the sheriff if a party ignores a court order
except for the Slush Fund problem
people who are doing shady stuff
Where the heck are you going to send the sheriff
It was impossible to press charges
we still needed critical records
I have never seen so many confused people in my life.
what went on was not appropriate.
there is still no excuse for what happened.
This whole thing smells fishy. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire. Just sayin'....
I am seeing a lot of efforts to circumvent the new processes
nasty stuff that went on.
Boosters also will no longer have to resort to ugly tactics
There were very obvious problems.
people are violating state and Federal laws
There were a lot of staff who were totally asleep.
This is utterly ridiculous.
should not be putting stuff out that is against the state and federal laws, violating school regulations
teachers just missed a lot of stuff.
You can't assume that a certain program is fine.
staff were not paying attention, or were choosing to ignore what they were told to do.
That is really, really, really bad.
it was totally off the wall.
They win the arrogance award.
Dr. Moniuszko, you're the best
very sad that the very people who are supposed to care about the children and families and doing their jobs properly
I didn't do anything.
You can pick from the Booster group who refused to release public records and publicly treated me like trash (and one of them verbally abused my child and made them cry), played games with trip money, the teacher(s) and administrator(s) who allowed this to happen, the school personnel who didn't know a public record from a hole in the wall, the Booster attorney who was encouraging their atrocious, abusive behavior and was totally obnoxious and threatening me inappropriately.
I am not tolerating any attitude from anybody.
DO NOT GIVE THEM ONE DOLLAR. Because they are probably acting like this for some not very good reasons.
And people who are being denied public records and records on financial transactions that they made with a Booster group have every right in the world to get very, very ugly.
Quit whining.
Justify what this was for. NOW.
WHY? That takes a lot of nerve.
These are problems for the school administrators to work out. I am staying out of it.
it was clear that things were not being monitored consistently.
I have demanded answers, for all of you
I am standing very, very firm.
Just shut them down and run all the money through the school system. THAT is what you do to people you are really ticked at.
We chuckled about a few other things regarding this.
why has this all been going on, and unless somebody reviews these, how is it going to get caught and corrected?
Why weren't a lot of the teachers doing this? Some of them were at the parent meetings where very inappropriate actions were being discussed.
violated school regulations, state and/or Federal laws,
inappropriate bill
I spent about 7 hours with senior level administrators
You never know when this is going to happen again. It happens all over the country. Every day.
Some of the school personnel also yelled at me and made fun of me in front of large groups
something is still seriously missing.
Why are people ignoring what they were told to do and NOT do?
It is NOT about anybody's ego. GET OVER IT.
so figure it out. NOW. Because you are being held accountable. All of you.
there are/were a LOT of people who aren't paying for their kids.
Who isn't paying for their kids? WHY?
You also sent a bill for it. You don't have the authority to do that.
How would you feel if you had two or three kids in this program, could barely afford it as it was, and then you were sent an inappropriate bill
You might actually be able to bill the parents for more
PAY UP. Keep your kid home. Plan. Do something. But, QUIT BEING FREELOADERS!!!
You are greedy, selfish, unrealistic moochers who think you are entitled to have a free ride, is what you are.
I do find it very interesting how people who are sending families bills for $230+ when they don't even have the right to do that don't seem to be a problem.
And there are quite a few programs that are not charging anywhere near what they could charge,
Somebody please explain to me how soaking families and children for money that you are not legally entitled to is NOT harmful,
You just can't send out a bill to parents for it.
Booster clubs don't have the right to send out bills
If you don't like it, put your kid in private school or go work in a private school.
you are screwing around with all this
So quit playing games. You are wasting their valuable time. I am not.
they all are being taken advantage of.
renounce your citizenship and get out of this country. Sooner rather than later.
violates school regulations, state, or Federal laws, it has to be squared away. And there was a LOT of that.
quit with the lame excuses when you are caught in the act doing this stuff.
Put your kid in private school.
You rebellious types can probably keep a good bit of this
not correct things when you violate public school regulations, etc.
This is not a scandal, but something that just needed to be fixed.
violations of school policy.
This was set up with Dr. Moniuszko when I told him I had seen enough messing around
Ask RM. We have discussed this extensively.
FCPS is not in charge of Booster organizations, and Booster organizations can't be in charge of FCPS activities. This has gotten very mixed up over the years.
Ask RM.
never really should have been managed the way they were for so many years. It did not follow written policy and state laws, or common sense
I could care less. Really.
QUIT BLAMING IT ON ME!!!!!!!!!!!! If you people started doing these, whatever happens is your own fault. Grow up!
The following groups will be identified in a separate thread if their issues don't get straightened out by Jan 15th
give the staff anything they need to fix this. RIGHT NOW.
This is a bare minimum list. I might add more.
You explain yourselves to the school system and your parents if you haven't already. Immediately. Quit playing games, folks!
when you are dealing with groups of parents scattered all over the county, that is a huge problem,
You people were eating it for a lot of scofflaws. As well as paying for the FRM kids.
The voice of reason.
you have until January 15th. Start coughing up some records. Now.
This is no time to be nice.
There should be no excuses this year. It is actually getting worse. They are getting more creative at dodging the requirements. I saw a lot of that. Hence, the deadline.
You never know when some of the accounting people can BE the problem. Watch out. Some of them like Dirty Little Secrets.
Time's up all around. Wrap it up. January 15th.
renounce your citizenship and move out of the country and make more room for us in the Land of the Free.
January 15th! These bills and issues are public records.
The true losers are the people who selfishly screwed over thousands of parents and children with their games over the years.
This is far more interesting and rewarding than watching Reality TV.
If people are going to continue to put out this trash, I will continue to look.
I think you people are getting hysterical for no reason.
January 15th!!!
Explain yourselves. Right here. I challenge you.
misuse of funds is not the point.
And if I don't hear how this was explained by January 15th, the names will be posted
There is nothing inflammatory about that, nothing insulting
As far as outing, the four groups in question have been handling public funds.
Why do you people want to put the licenses of the teachers and administrators in jeopardy?
Have fun with this one!!!!!!!!!!
all that matters is whether the existing laws and regulations were followed
Please treat these school officials with respect
Working out the details on just the Final Four is a ton of work.
The other areas are on their own. I could care less.
Get to work fixing the numbers and details. January 15th.
I don't mean to blackmail people, but most of the problems were reported in Sept/Oct.
I am merely setting a deadline.
I am not accusing anybody of anything.
get this worked out by January 15th. This is very basic stuff.
staff can't walk away from their responsibilities in this type of situation. So, team up and straighten this out.
You can't go sending out bills for $50,000-$70,000 to parents unless they are completely justified. And they aren't even close. And you are NOT waiting until next year to fix this. You are going to fix it THIS year.
January 15th.
I am giving these groups and schools the chance to work this out without being publicly fingered. The claims could be very defensible.
However, more analysis needs to be done
Right now. I am not accusing anybody of anything. I am merely pointing out that there might be problems.
right to go to Small Claims court,
January 15th. I am sure some of this will be fine. Some, maybe not.

Just to be clear, the posts at 9:39 and 9:40 were not made by the same person that posted at 8:48 and 9:36... because you are bound to assume they were all the same person

>>Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive. - Sir Walter Scott (Marmion, 1808).

9pVL7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Profile of a Sociopath:
>
> ****Manipulative and Conning
> They never recognize the rights of others and see
> their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They
> appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile
> and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an
> instrument to be used. They may dominate and
> humiliate their victims.
>
> ****Grandiose Sense of Self
> Feels entitled to certain things as "their
> right."
>
> ****Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
> A deep seated rage, which is split off and
> repressed, is at their core. Does not see others
> around them as people, but only as targets and
> opportunities. Instead of friends, they have
> victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The
> end always justifies the means and they let
> nothing stand in their way.
>
> ****Shallow Emotions
> When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love
> and compassion it is more feigned than experienced
> and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by
> insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and
> cold by what would upset a normal person. Since
> they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
>
> Incapacity for Love
>
> ****Need for Stimulation
> Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical
> punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling
> are common.
>
> ****Callousness/Lack of Empathy
> Unable to empathize with the pain of their
> victims, having only contempt for others' feelings
> of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
>
> ****Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
> Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions
> of love and approval produce an addictive cycle
> for abuser and abused, as well as creating
> hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are
> all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish,
> no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for
> their impact on others.
>
> ****Irresponsibility/Unreliability
> Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and
> dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the
> devastation they cause. Does not accept blame
> themselves, but blames others, even for acts they
> obviously committed.

Good post. Describes the behavior exhibited by many Booster officers, parents, and school personnel very nicely. The applicable ones are starred (****).

Here are more interesting observations regarding the West Potomac Band Booster Treasurer having "all the documents locked in their house and we don't have a key and can't break in" line that FCPS is putting out.

What about all those "monthly reports" that were supposed to be filed with Mr. Case (the principal) by any Booster group who signed an MOA? The student payment spreadsheets, the bank statements, the general ledger activity report (three of the things asked for)? Were they not turned in ALL YEAR? Did he not even look at them all year? What DID he do? Did he not wonder what the heck was going on with his Band fees? Did he not wonder where they were? Where exactly WERE they all year? That is in addition to the supposed arrangement of having all this information in the FCPS computer system all year so that an FCPS employee can access it at any time. Boosters, what did you do all year? Did you do this whole thing off the radar? FCPS fees. County funds. Nice.

These funds were supposed to be subject to the summer FCPS audit. There it is right there on page 7. If this Booster Treasurer is "out of the country and the information was locked up in their house and we don't have the key and we can't break in" from June 25 to mid-August like they are claiming, just when/how was this going to be done? Unaudited, secret public fund records. Nice.

This story gets more ludicrous by the day. This whole situation is being analyzed by the Internal Comptroller at the Virginia Department of Education down in Richmond. The Superintendent of Public Instruction thought this was a very interesting arrangement and wanted him to take a look at it. The Super got right back to me he did. TWICE. Dr. Staples got a copy of the whole smacking 49 page Writ, including the MOA signed by the West Potomac parent officer, the Guidelines, plus a copy of the Reg. 5810. A full copy of the Writ was also sent to the Attorney General and a State Delegate who is on the FOIA Council as they follow FOIA issues very closely. The entire FOIA Council team down at the State Capitol is probably analyzing the Writ. So is the Virginia Coalition for Open Government. They all live for this kind of stuff. It might be posted on the VCOG website. That goes all over the country.

This is all over the state. Congratulations. You all are famous. FCPS, The West Potomac Band Parent Organization, the Comptroller, Division Counsel, Brandynn Reaves, the School Board.... The Post and the Times have a copy of the whole thing, also. Newspapers LOVE their FOIA. It is probably going all over their offices. Money taken from children for a public school class, a contracted arrangement, no records, "alleged" FOIA violation. OK, I put the "alleged" in there. This is a FOIA violation and don't go try kidding anybody. FCPS completely ignored the requirement to get a formal extension and missed the 12 day time frame by at least a week, probably more like two, and that was only after the requester rattled their cage and gave them a 6pm deadline. They also had to be poked by the petitioner's attorney more than once. The original request was June 24th. They were very clearly told that was the requirement. More than once. Maybe you will all make the national news. It will probably go to the Virginia and National School Boards Associations very soon so their legal teams can analyze what went on here. This could make an interesting legal case study at their conferences.

It is what it is. You couldn't make this situation up if you tried. Let me guess-the next line they are going to try is "there aren't any responsive records", meaning that there isn't a scrap of information on as much as $160 taken from dozens of students. For a public school class. That is certainly newsworthy, too. Or maybe they will say "there wasn't any collected fee" or "it was optional" but won't have a single thing to prove that. They have tried that one, too. Marshall, Annandale, Langley, Westfield, Madison, etc.
Attachments:

My my my... someone is just RUBBING THEIR HANDS IN GLEE.

potkettleblack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My my my... someone is just RUBBING THEIR HANDS IN
> GLEE.


Well, it is what it is.

Mr. Foster and FCPS chose to not obtain an extension. This is not the first time they have refused to do this. They also completely ignored the custodianship responsibilities FCPS had when the Herndon Band parents ran an FCPS fee through their bank account instead of an FCPS account, which violated the MOA they all signed. They refused to own up to their responsibilities AND refused to get an extension and it took them almost four months to figure out what to do and produce. They don't have the right to do that. Twelve working days. That is the limit. They should not have needed any more than that. This was a few pages of very basic information.

When you decide to ignore your responsibilities under FOIA, you have made a very bad choice. When you decide to rob a bank or steal a car or break into someone's home you have made a very bad choice. Etc. Etc. Etc. Bad choices are unfortunate but this situation never should have happened. This could have been handled very simply. Apply for the extension. But, they chose to close the door and try to hide.

You can't run and hide from a situation like this. That won't work. Money was taken from kids. KIDS. Kids and their parents. They have an obligation to safeguard that and prove what they did with it.

Oh, and this is also going out on a live radio broadcast. The producer is watching this unfold.

Gotta love that MOA. Sign it and ignore the contract. That was the philosophy. The Treasurer was supposed to be turning in monthly reports and an end of year analysis. All this was supposed to be in the FCPS Charms system or the main FCPS system. The money was supposed to be deposited directly into a school bank account. The school system has complete access to their bank accounts and Charms. And this should have been audited this summer. There is no excuse for this.

Hopefully you run into a judge similar to this one - are you related to Davidson?

http://www.loudountimes.com/news/article/court_finds_loudoun_schools_not_in_violation_of_foia_laws655

According to state FOIA law, a public body is not required to fulfill a FOIA request if the documentation doesn't exist, nor are they required to create the document.

After her ruling, Irby sanctioned Davison, penalizing him with a $500 fee in accordance with what he requested from Loudoun schools for each alleged FOIA infringement to “interject some courtesy” in Davison's FOIA requests and proceedings in the future.

“We are preparing correspondence to 'restrict' Mr. Davison's movement specifically to the school to 'By Appointment Only,'” the email states. “We will be requesting [Loudoun sheriff deputy] coverage in the interim for ALL public meetings due to growing staff concerns … I think [Davison's] anger and frustration is growing – certainly if you follow his blogs.”

FOIA stalkers sure are nutty and dangerous people.

staccato Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I fail to understand how someone so vigilant
> about their rights under FOIA and so interested in
> the legal system can be so dismissive about
> 'innocent until proven guilty'. Right now, West Po
> is guilty of not giving you records. They are not
> guilty at this moment of taking public money and
> running wild on a shopping spree, as you are
> implying."
>
>
>
>
> The school system is the party not providing
> public records in accordance with Virginia FOIA.
> This falls on the School Board. Whatever has
> caused that is still to be determined. Whatever
> was done with the funds is still to be determined.
> The petitioner is very obviously being denied
> their rights under Virginia law. THAT is the only
> definite, it is very obvious, the deadlines and
> requirements are clearly not being followed, and
> that is all that matters right now. YOU are the
> one jumping to conclusions.
>

Remember this?^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ah HA!!!! It took the writing of a Writ to extricate the information from the school system.

A. This was the question. What was very clearly asked for was the stuff "between the arrows". Note the date. June 24th.

B. Do you see the stuff "between the [great BIG] arrows"? The stuff labeled Consumable Fee, with the **taking you to FCPS Co-curricular fee.

C. Note Mr. Foster's letter of June 29th clearly saying that the "consumables fees" information from the "June 24th request" is "locked up in the Treasurer's house". Very adamant.

D. Note the attorney telling Mr. Foster on June 30th that what he is saying does not make sense and that an extension is not appropriate.

The records miraculously appeared today. After several emails, a Writ, a call to the School Board, 16 hours before the Writ was going to be filed at the Courthouse, etc. Almost a month late. I have no idea where they got them. Maybe the poor Booster Treasurer who was being blamed for this hopped on a plane and came home to help them. FOIA doesn't allow for records to be a month late unless the requester agrees to that. The requester refused to agree to that. BECAUSE IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE. The requester's rights were INDEED denied. The requester is also being told that is all THEIR FAULT, in spite of great big arrows, a letter from their lawyer, and everything else, that the school system was so confused that they could not provide information on their own consumables fee and it is probably the requester's fault that they completely missed the 7 day deadline they promised and DIDN'T SAY ONE WORD TO THE REQUESTER.

I still can't believe they tried to blame all this on a group of volunteers (in addition to the requester). That is lower than low. I had a funny feeling it was going to work out like this.

Sigh. It is what it is.

I would bet that there have been some payments for 2015 fees also, since they were due June 15th. Am I right? They are also saying there isn't any information on those. See that on C?

Now the big question remains-the information I was shown indicates that checks were made out to West Potomac HS Band, only some of them went into a school account, and some of them went into a Booster account (see the *). It would probably take a year to get them to clarify that. Maybe another Writ.........
Attachments:

> >
>
> Remember this?^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Ah HA!!!! It took the writing of a Writ to
> extricate the information from the school system.
>
> A. This was the question. What was very clearly
> asked for was the stuff "between the arrows". Note
> the date. June 24th.
>
> B. Do you see the stuff "between the [great BIG]
> arrows"? The stuff labeled Consumable Fee, with
> the **taking you to FCPS Co-curricular fee.
>
> C. Note Mr. Foster's letter of June 29th clearly
> saying that the "consumables fees" information
> from the "June 24th request" is "locked up in the
> Treasurer's house". Very adamant.
>
> D. Note the attorney telling Mr. Foster on June
> 30th that what he is saying does not make sense
> and that an extension is not appropriate.
>
> The records miraculously appeared today. After
> several emails, a Writ, a call to the School
> Board, 16 hours before the Writ was going to be
> filed at the Courthouse, etc. Almost a month late.
> I have no idea where they got them. Maybe the poor
> Booster Treasurer who was being blamed for this
> hopped on a plane and came home to help them. FOIA
> doesn't allow for records to be a month late
> unless the requester agrees to that. The requester
> refused to agree to that. BECAUSE IT DIDN'T MAKE
> SENSE. The requester's rights were INDEED denied.
> The requester is also being told that is all THEIR
> FAULT, in spite of great big arrows, a letter from
> their lawyer, and everything else, that the
> school system was so confused that they could not
> provide information on their own consumables fee
> and it is probably the requester's fault that they
> completely missed the 7 day deadline they promised
> and DIDN'T SAY ONE WORD TO THE REQUESTER.
>
> I still can't believe they tried to blame all this
> on a group of volunteers (in addition to the
> requester). That is lower than low. I had a funny
> feeling it was going to work out like this.
>
> Sigh. It is what it is.
>
> I would bet that there have been some payments for
> 2015 fees also, since they were due June 15th. Am
> I right? They are also saying there isn't any
> information on those. See that on C?
>
> Now the big question remains-the information I was
> shown indicates that checks were made out to West
> Potomac HS Band, only some of them went into a
> school account, and some of them went into a
> Booster account (see the *). It would probably
> take a year to get them to clarify that. Maybe
> another Writ.........


Ok.. so I wrote the message you quoted here. I'm not sure why you are quoting me and then saying "Ah HA!", as if I said something wrong.

My innocent until proven guilty comment was referring to how the money was being spent... in which you sounded like you thought something evil was going on with the SPENDING without knowing that for sure. That has still not been proven or clarified.

I said they are GUILTY of not providing records. That is all. And it's true. We agree on that. So why are saying "Ah HA!!!" to me again? Not getting the pat on the back you are so desperately looking for?

"So why are saying "Ah HA!!!" to me again?"

If you read the post, you will see that the term is in the sentence with "It took the writing of a Writ...". It doesn't refer to you at all. There are a whole bunch of people jumping to conclusions, including you. Staccato made it very clear that the records and processes were the problem. Without records, nothing else could be done.

And yes, FCPS dug themselves a Great Big Hole and had three days to get themselves out of it. It is very obvious in the Writ that something was very wrong. You can't help yourself to six weeks on a FOIA request. I am glad you can see that. That is a major problem. It is a violation of FOIA. These funds were collected almost a year ago. Trying to tell somebody that records don't exist is simply not believable. You also can't go blaming a Booster volunteer because you can't produce records that are supposed to be in your systems. The records requested were about FCPS fees. Division Counsel even said that. More than once. And then they turned around and said the question was not clear and tried to blame it on the requester. Funny that the requester's attorney had no problem reading the question and summarizing the situation in the Writ.

Trying to blame others for things you seriously mess up is a very ugly thing to do.

So the latest thing is pretty ridiculous-

Mr. Foster did not understand a FOIA request. So, instead of contacting the requester to clarify it, he just canceled it and didn't tell the requester.

Brilliant move there.

Seriously. He just up and canceled it. Didn't say one word.

And then he told the requester that the FOIA Council recommends good communication between the requester and the FOIA staff.

You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried...........

Wow, this whole thread is fucked up.

I remember when I was in high school (one of the ones "around" falls church is enough of a hint), my mom had to write a lot of checks to the boosters for "Required" stuff that really wasn't required at all..."Extra uniform maintenance fee" when I only got ONE uniform all marching season....and it stank to high heaven since they NEVER washed/drycleaned/even febreezed them....."snack/water fee" WTF I brought my own......

.....I specifically recall having to pay for a trip I didn't even go on- and I didn't get ANY of my money back (well over $500) after letting them know a MONTH in advance I wasn't going to make it- asked for a refund, even partial- We'd even take $100 back and donate the rest to a kid who couldn't afford it to go even... DENIED!!!

NOWHERE in the paperwork did it say ANYTHING about NO REFUNDS or NO PROCESS on how to cancel in an emergency (it was a legit family emergency we had to leave the country for)....especially since we gave WRITTEN NOTICE to the band director and CC'd the Boosters (since we wrote the check to them)....I got my absences excused by the school but never saw the money back....

Statue of limitations- probably too late for me (past 7 years graduated)....

Wish I knew about the FOIA then....good luck for those trying to get their money back!!!

former band geek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, this whole thread is fucked up.
>
> I remember when I was in high school (one of the
> ones "around" falls church is enough of a hint),
> my mom had to write a lot of checks to the
> boosters for "Required" stuff that really wasn't
> required at all..."Extra uniform maintenance fee"
> when I only got ONE uniform all marching
> season....and it stank to high heaven since they
> NEVER washed/drycleaned/even febreezed
> them....."snack/water fee" WTF I brought my
> own......
>
> .....I specifically recall having to pay for a
> trip I didn't even go on- and I didn't get ANY of
> my money back (well over $500) after letting them
> know a MONTH in advance I wasn't going to make it-
> asked for a refund, even partial- We'd even take
> $100 back and donate the rest to a kid who
> couldn't afford it to go even... DENIED!!!
>
> NOWHERE in the paperwork did it say ANYTHING about
> NO REFUNDS or NO PROCESS on how to cancel in an
> emergency (it was a legit family emergency we had
> to leave the country for)....especially since we
> gave WRITTEN NOTICE to the band director and CC'd
> the Boosters (since we wrote the check to
> them)....I got my absences excused by the school
> but never saw the money back....
>
> Statue of limitations- probably too late for me
> (past 7 years graduated)....
>
> Wish I knew about the FOIA then....good luck for
> those trying to get their money back!!!

Thank you for this post. This thread is not f***** up. The processes ARE messed up. They got totally out of control over the years.

Every trip is very different. It all depends on the cancellation policy with the travel agent, etc. A month is frequently the absolute cut-off, even for a family emergency. That is a risk you take when you sign up for these things. Sometimes somebody wants to go at the last minute and can buy your trip from you. The Comptroller can be brought in to analyze the situation and mediate. You can't always count on a refund. You might even be obligated to pay more money even if you don't go if you are behind on payments and cancel out too late. It is a real balancing act. Always back up your verbal communications with written confirmation. The contract is between the parents and the school system. They have a business office and they know what they are doing. Use them. Do NOT write checks to a Booster club for school trips. Even if they say "we are going to write one big group check". They do NOT have the right to do that. Would you pay your mortgage to a Girl Scout troop and have them forward it to your lender? NO. DON'T get sucked into that. It is very dangerous, they can do a lot of messing around with the fees, the records get all messed up, the insurance is not there like it is with the school system. You write those checks straight to the school.

TJ tried to do it through the Boosters this summer-a "typo"-right. The checks had to be sent back to the parents and they had to rewrite the checks. What a mess.

I think people can supply things for their own kids. Mine did for years. They brought all their own drinks and food. However, some programs have evolved into having great big dinners and lunches for all the kids all the time. This really doesn't have to be that way. It really adds to the costs, the planning, the work. Bag lunches and the snack bar are fine. Get a grip. It's public school.

NOTHING is required when you are giving money to a Booster club, unless you are purchasing an item through them. Even shoes and things can be run through the school system accounts. A lot of programs do that. I repeat-NOTHING is required if/when you are giving money to a Booster club. NOTHING. The advantage to this setup is that you can probably write off a lot of anything you give them, as long as you aren't receiving goods or services in return, in which case things need to be calculated out.

"Wish I knew about the FOIA then....good luck for those trying to get their money back!!!"

You can FOIA certain things running through a Booster group, but it gets very sticky. Basically, if it is something the school system is required to have in their records, or something the school system has delegated to them, but it is in Booster accounts, you can FOIA it through the school system. So, anything involving students, personnel, property, staff, and that type of thing (all this is required to be in school records-school activity funds) you can FOIA it. Problem is, it depends on who is in the Legal office that year. A lot of lawyers do not understand the custodianship/agent relationship issues. They focus on "the money didn't go through our accounts, so quite simply it isn't our problem". If it was SUPPOSED to run through school accounts, it IS their problem. It just evolves into a battle from a lot of different angles because it can be open to wide interpretation. Plus, the condition of the records can be very nasty. Incomplete, etc. You can have that problem with the school system, too, but they are being paid to do it right and carry the responsibility. What can you do to a volunteer?

We are in battles right now because Legal doesn't get it. They really don't, and then they try to BS their way out of it. Herndon Band was an absolute disaster. The Booster club violated the MOA, ran pre-season through their accounts even though they signed an agreement not to, the school system had the right to demand immediate return of all funds and records, they decided to take a nap instead of doing their job, and then tried to walk away from their responsibilities. No, no, no. It took them months to grasp the concept of custodianship. There were other groups who demanded big bucks from the students for their class. The Legal office did a crappy job with them. "There aren't any records." Centreville. Bullcrap. There were more. Mythical "voluntary commitment payments due right now if you want to sign up-hand it to the teacher" that "didn't exist" (Marshall). Bullcrap. "We aren't supposed to do this but we are anyway and it is due now the world will end if you don't pay this." Signed by the teacher (Woodson). Bullcrap. Etc. Etc. Etc. It was a real mess. FCPS needs to man up and assume some responsibility instead of wandering around acting "confused".


Don't give Booster clubs any money unless you want to. If it is essential to the class or activity it has to run through school accounts.

All money involving students is supposed to run through school accounts. School activity funds are not supposed to be put into Booster accounts. Booster clubs are non-profits separate from the school system. You can't use public funds to fund a Booster club, even if it will benefit the school.

So here is the most recent recap of mysterious stuff coming out of the FCPS Legal and FOIA departments-

After the FOIA office refused to release an employment contract on somebody with an FCPS email account, the Division Counsel told an attorney who called to tell him that this was required under FOIA that "this was an hourly employee and there wasn't any contract". So, they expected somebody to believe that somebody could obtain an FCPS email account and be paid without a contract. Several hours later, a contract shows up. No explanation.

Herndon Band parents sign the MOA, they violate it and take money that is an FCPS fee and put it into their bank account, and the Division Counsel basically tells a citizen that the school system's responsibility ends there, in spite of the clauses in the contract regarding the Boosters producing all public records within 5 days upon request, and FCPS having the right to demand all funds and records be turned in to the school system within three days if they are in violation of the contract, which they were. It took them almost four months to figure out that this was not an appropriate response.

The FOIA department declares that there aren't any records on an FCPS fee paid last Fall, but there should be in six weeks. Records that are right in the FCPS banking, accounting, and records systems, all of which are owned by the school system. As much as $160 per child. Taken from students. Children and their parents. Division Counsel declares that the Booster Treasurer has all the documents in "HIS" residence, and we don't have the keys to "HIS" residence, and they left town the DAY AFTER the initial FOIA request and they are "out of the country" for several weeks. "HIS" name (the Treasurer for last year and this year) is JILL. The Booster Treasurer does not own the bank account or computer system. Division Counsel, when handed an intent to Petition for a Writ/Injunction, somehow miraculously is able to produce the records in a little over 48 hours. The records that "didn't exist" at the time of the initial FOIA request but actually did.

The FOIA department declares July 1st that there is not one single canceled check for a fee paid to the school system that was due June 15th. In August they produce a copy of one that was deposited June 19th. They are very proud it only took them about six weeks and that they are "early".

Moving forward..............

People are hired by FCPS as hourly employees all the time and do not have contracts. Those people are also authorized to obtain an email address. So, what they told you was correct and should be believed. That is pretty common in FCPS.

This is all over the state. Congratulations. You all are famous. FCPS.... The Post and the Times have a copy of the whole thing, also. Newspapers LOVE their FOIA. It is probably going all over their offices.

Oh, and this is also going out on a live radio broadcast. The producer is watching this unfold.

Just spent a wasted 30 minutes searching the web for any news stories of any type on this. Found NOTHING.

Answerwhat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People are hired by FCPS as hourly employees all
> the time and do not have contracts. Those people
> are also authorized to obtain an email address.
> So, what they told you was correct and should be
> believed. That is pretty common in FCPS.


She had a contract. The lawyer did not tell the truth. Plain and simple.

And it is just not believable that anybody can receive a paycheck and an email address from FCPS and not have any type of written agreement. You have to have something in writing to seal the deal, work out the withholding, etc., even with an hourly employee. It might be a different type of contract, but get real. I seriously doubt you can just bring somebody in, tell the IT people to give them an email address, and not have any proof of employment.

Oh, and this is also going out on a live radio broadcast. The producer is watching this unfold.


Stand by. We are booking a date.

"The lawyer did not tell the truth."

I am skipping the "alleged" crap. The lawyer did not tell the truth. If you say somebody doesn't have a contract and then produce one later in the afternoon that is dated from months ago, you did a lousy job of researching this and that was not the true story.

"Just spent a wasted 30 minutes searching the web for any news stories of any type on this. Found NOTHING."

Doesn't matter. There are journalism, FOIA, educational, and legal professionals all over the state and country scratching their heads, analyzing the Writ, probably laughing, wondering how on Earth one of the largest, supposedly most advanced school systems in the country, servicing one of the most affluent and well-educated counties in the country, cannot produce very basic records on student payments for their fees within the 12 working days prescribed by Virginia FOIA. Particularly with a signed MOA that was in placed to provide for exactly this type of situation.

They were given more than one opportunity to produce this information before being slapped with a Writ. This was not a communication problem.

And FCPS blames it on a VOLUNTEER. And FCPS was seriously willing to stand behind the whole story in court and put their name on it for the whole world to see.

They threw a VOLUNTEER under the bus.

This whole thing was their idea.......

Answerwhat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People are hired by FCPS as hourly employees all
> the time and do not have contracts. Those people
> are also authorized to obtain an email address.
> So, what they told you was correct and should be
> believed. That is pretty common in FCPS.


How do you issue a paycheck from FCPS to someone if they don't have a contract?

After months and months of arguing and massive confusion in the Penthouse at Gatehouse, they finally produced some information on the $140 West Potomac Booster student payment that the Boosters weren't supposed to charge in the first place.

The theory was, any Booster payment has to be optional. It also has to be from parents, NOT related to students and their classes. This "Booster payment" was directed at students to pay for a class. It was not marked as optional. Any money involving students, classes, school activities, and staff, has to be accounted for in the school accounts. The teacher was supposedly on the Board and the Budget committee that all planned this whole thing. They also technically had the right to independently authorize non-budgetary disbursement of these funds. So, even though it was in a Booster bank account, too bad. This was money taken from students to pay for their class. They weren't supposed to do this. Yes, it went for transportation and additional instruction, but they did not have the right to up and send every student a bill for $140 because they signed up for a class.

QUIT DOING THIS. There is no such thing as a Booster fee/payment/dues/etc. aimed at students. Parents cannot be held to anything "mandatory" (except for things like tshirts, shoes, etc.) payable to a Booster club just because their child signed up for a class.
Attachments:

Dear Answerwhat----> Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answerwhat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > People are hired by FCPS as hourly employees
> all
> > the time and do not have contracts. Those
> people
> > are also authorized to obtain an email address.
> > So, what they told you was correct and should
> be
> > believed. That is pretty common in FCPS.
>
>
> How do you issue a paycheck from FCPS to someone
> if they don't have a contract?


How do you use public funds to pay someone without a contract or written agreement in place? Without one, you could be diverting public funds to your friend, neighbor, relative, etc. You have to formally justify the usage of the funds.

Answer the question.

On the FCPS internal hiring form there is actually a box to check "yes" or "no" as to whether the position is contracted. Seems that hiring people without contract is an acceptable division-wide practice for certain positions.

On the form Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the FCPS internal hiring form there is actually
> a box to check "yes" or "no" as to whether the
> position is contracted. Seems that hiring people
> without contract is an acceptable division-wide
> practice for certain positions.


You have to have some type of written agreement to be paid using public funds. It might not be a fancy contract, but there has to be something identifying the role and agreeing on the terms, even if there aren't any.

I'd post the form, but I think you prefer to receive information by paying for it. It has a a few fields to input the position title and duties along with basic information on the candidate. You cannot receive an FCPS ID number without this form starting the hiring process.

Believe it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd post the form, but I think you prefer to
> receive information by paying for it. It has a a
> few fields to input the position title and duties
> along with basic information on the candidate. You
> cannot receive an FCPS ID number without this form
> starting the hiring process.

Free is good. Go ahead and post it.

See, you have to have the form to receive an FCPS ID number. Something has to specify the information about what the person is being hired for. I would bet you have to have an FCPS ID number to obtain an email address.

Let me guess-somewhere in the process the person receiving money from FCPS has to agree to the terms and this has to be noted......

Go ahead and FOIA the hiring process.

The non-contracted staff never have any set of terms to agree to. Just the typical paperwork hoops that ultimately mean nothing but create a paper trail that can be pointed to.

staccato Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, and this is also going out on a live radio
> broadcast. The producer is watching this unfold.
>
>
> Stand by. We are booking a date.

Still standing by.

It was weird to see my mom listed on the music teachers list. She started working in FCPS around 1988 I believe. She already had a Bachelor's degree in Music Ed. She went back to school for a Master's degree while still teaching and basically earned a Masters +15 (almost PhD level without the thesis). She did this on her own dime, but was able to claim the classes towards a higher pay. She worked for over 20 years in FCPS - so yeah - $80,000+ is fair prior to her retirement from teaching. Twenty plus years teaching and paying for her own higher education, that salary was well earned over all those years. When she retired she was really worried that should wouldn't be able to survive retirement on the FCPS retirement stipend. Basically she survives on my late father's Social Security that she got after he died and doesn't pull that much in from her teaching retirement.

She still works and has too, but she's no longer teaching. We honestly don't pay our teachers enough.

Hell, I know people I graduated from HS with who used to bitch they ONLY had a salary of 45k starting after college and now make 90k plus in their 30's.

Redsilas77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was weird to see my mom listed on the music
> teachers list. She started working in FCPS around
> 1988 I believe. She already had a Bachelor's
> degree in Music Ed. She went back to school for a
> Master's degree while still teaching and basically
> earned a Masters +15 (almost PhD level without the
> thesis). She did this on her own dime, but was
> able to claim the classes towards a higher pay.
> She worked for over 20 years in FCPS - so yeah -
> $80,000+ is fair prior to her retirement from
> teaching. Twenty plus years teaching and paying
> for her own higher education, that salary was well
> earned over all those years. When she retired she
> was really worried that should wouldn't be able to
> survive retirement on the FCPS retirement stipend.
> Basically she survives on my late father's Social
> Security that she got after he died and doesn't
> pull that much in from her teaching retirement.
>
> She still works and has too, but she's no longer
> teaching. We honestly don't pay our teachers
> enough.
>
> Hell, I know people I graduated from HS with who
> used to bitch they ONLY had a salary of 45k
> starting after college and now make 90k plus in
> their 30's.

This doesn't have much to do with the issue of running public funds through shakily insured Booster bank accounts and then not producing records on it as required by state law, and not following the state laws regarding charging kids for classes, but go ahead and tell your story.

THIS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL. WHY ARE YOU POSTING THIS I AM CALLING 911 AND TELLING THEM THAT