I know that you must be 21 years of age to purchase a handgun in the state of Virginia, but can you OC at the age of 18? I read somewhere online that you must be 18 to OC, but I always figured that it was 21 since you had to be 21 to buy a handgun.

How many of you OC in VA?

I OC everyday.

You will get more pertinent information over here:



http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/

Thank at this site.

I just found that site right before you posted that. I found my answer there. I look forward to open carrying when I come home from school next week!

Watch out for these two tough guys

watch out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Watch out for these two tough guys


No, watch out for scared mommies who will call the police if they see you carrying a gun.

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> watch out Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Watch out for these two tough guys
>
>
> No, watch out for scared mommies who will call the
> police if they see you carrying a gun.

That's why I'm a bit nervous about open carrying. Some idiots don't understand that it's my right as a Virginian. Funny thing is, they should feel safe, not scared, when they see people open carrying.

OC Wrote:
police if they see you carrying a gun.
>
> That's why I'm a bit nervous about open carrying.
> Some idiots don't understand that it's my right as
> a Virginian. Funny thing is, they should feel
> safe, not scared, when they see people open
> carrying.


You're completely mad. There's no justification for the carrying of sidearms by civilians in a civil society. Sidearms are for killing people - and if you don't intend on killing someone, don't oc

Open carry may be your lawful right but you will get justifiably hassled - I for one do not want untrained nutters carrying semi-automatics near my kids

Its also a very fine line between open carry and brandishing which will get you more hassle than you want

If you open carry, you are asking to get shot by mistake and no one will shed a tear

if you're scared - live somewhere where you don't need a gun

If you're worried about your manhood - sign up for a tour in Iraq

Oh let the most likely 5'6, slightly balding white male drive his massive ford f-350 extended cab and bed pick up truck (because the truck is warranted: single male who has some small office job) to where ever he wants and open carry. He isn't making up for anything, he just wants everyone to know not to mess with him because he has his six shooter on his hip.

why do all you rednecks feel its appropriate to carry a weapon around in a shopping center? You ever hear that 311 track 'Guns are for pussys'?

This is why I got a concealed carry permit: to avoid the idiocy of people like some of you.

Boris were not complaining about the concealed carry people, were talking about the fools who need to make a scene by showing off their "rights." Carry concealed, no one one causes a fuss and you can save the day when you're in the bank when the thug comes in to hold the place up.

Just make sure you aren't wearing this shirt, it might reveal you are carrying a heater.

http://www.bustedtees.com/secondamendment

I would concealed carry, but I'm not old enough. Trust me, I would prefer to CC in order to avoid idiots like some of you that replied in this thread.
And I'm not open carrying to tell people not to mess with me and show off. I'm open carrying because I'm a Virginian. And everyone knows that OCing prevents crime.

suicide by cop? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You're completely mad. There's no justification
> for the carrying of sidearms by civilians in a
> civil society. Sidearms are for killing people -
> and if you don't intend on killing someone, don't
> oc
>
> Open carry may be your lawful right but you will
> get justifiably hassled - I for one do not want
> untrained nutters carrying semi-automatics near my
> kids
>
> Its also a very fine line between open carry and
> brandishing which will get you more hassle than
> you want
>
> If you open carry, you are asking to get shot by
> mistake and no one will shed a tear
>
> if you're scared - live somewhere where you don't
> need a gun
>
> If you're worried about your manhood - sign up for
> a tour in Iraq

What does open carrying have to do with brandishing a weapon? Carrying a legal firearm on your person is not brandishing. You have no idea what you are talking about. And why would I be accidently shot because I'm OCing?

thats whats up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why do all you rednecks feel its appropriate to
> carry a weapon around in a shopping center? You
> ever hear that 311 track 'Guns are for pussys'?

Other than the Virginia Civilian Defense League's actions to call attention
to the fact that OC is now perfectly legal, I have never seen anyone
actually "OC'ing" in Fairfax. I have asked supermarket managers, restaurant
owners, and store clerks if they have seen anyone doing this and none
have said yes. Have you seen anyone OC'ing?

I just like the idea that if we have to evacuate this area due to terrorist
activity or whatever, I dont have to hide my pistol while trying to get
out of town and I do not have a CCW.

There's quite a few people that OC in NOVA.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/

OC, not old enough to conceal carry? You should use that partial college education of yours and pull together some stats that show open carry reduce crime. Those stats need to be shown before any of us can actually take your word for it.

As for the brandishing issue, the comment is just silly. However, you "break leather" and you are in the wrong, there is your brandishing.

Charleton, look up about two or three messages and theres your open carrier. Thats one in about 45 minutes of posting. They are out there and exist. Just because Johnny at the local supermarket doesn't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Maybe you don't notice it because it's really not a big deal. It's not like people that OC try and show it off, because that is not why we OC. My gun is in a holster on my belt, just like a cell phone. There's a good chance that you probably won't even notice it as you pass by me in the store.

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OC, not old enough to conceal carry? You should
> use that partial college education of yours and
> pull together some stats that show open carry
> reduce crime. Those stats need to be shown before
> any of us can actually take your word for it.
>
> As for the brandishing issue, the comment is just
> silly. However, you "break leather" and you are
> in the wrong, there is your brandishing.
>
> Charleton, look up about two or three messages and
> theres your open carrier. Thats one in about 45
> minutes of posting. They are out there and exist.
> Just because Johnny at the local supermarket
> doesn't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I'm not denying that they exist. Only that its fairly uncommon. I
spend most of my time "out and about" in Fairfax and have yet to
see one personally. If I do though, it wouldnt bother me as I'm originally
from an area where OC has always been acceptable. The ones I worry
about are those who carry concealed and have no intention of
getting a permit. I'm glad there are people around with CCW's though
and I know about five of them personally.

OC, I'm waiting for those stats!

Do you have stats that say that open carrying CAUSES crime?
You can't have a statistic of something that never happened. Open carrying PREVENTS crime. So there is no statistic, because the crime never happened.

OC no offense but your young age shines brightly in your last post. Answering a question with a question? You need to stop posting on FU and pay a little more attention in school.

A very easy and quick way to find stats regarding open carry vs crime rate. Simply look at an area that allows open carry, we can use NOVA. Now, locate the crime rate for the NOVA area, you could be even more specific and just use Fairfax County. Now, find a county that doesn't allow open carry with the near the same population. Compare the stats and you have a statistic to use in your advantage. While this method is extremely basic and its spectrum is limited, it still provides something tangible rather than replying with a question and reiterating your OC prevents crime bit.

Additionally, you comments about not having statistics because it never happened is completely ignorant. Again, I mean no insults but you can't be serious. We can use crime as an example and hopefully you will understand. Lets say there is absolutely no crime in Fairfax county for one year. An entire year with no crime, even the crime that isn't reported doesn't even exist. Therefore the crime rate also known as a statistic would be 0%. The crime doesn't exist but there is still a statistic!

Find an area where OC is allowed, find the crime rate and compare it with an area where it is not allowed. See which one is higher and that could possibly be a way of demonstrating that OC helps prevent crime. Please think constructively, it's going to help you in the long run and when you become "old enough" to OC.

Good Luck!

WHAT? Wrote:

>
> What does open carrying have to do with
> brandishing a weapon? Carrying a legal firearm on
> your person is not brandishing. You have no idea
> what you are talking about. And why would I be
> accidently shot because I'm OCing?

My interpretation of the advice given by the NRA during CC training that anything that deliberately draws attention to your weapon even in a tense situation or even as your jacket flaps around in Magruders' can be misinterpreted as brandishing.

OC in a very crowded suburban county is just asking for confusion and for people to interpret your display as brandishing - you may win in court but don't be surprised to find yourself there or at least the center of attention amongst blue-lights

in terms of getting yourself shot - if you CC, the fact will come up on the computer during any traffic stop etc, you both know where you stand - if you OC, the first thing that fairfax's finest or any of the hundred of local feds will see will be your weapon - why put them into a high pressure situation, where every move you make will be treated, justifiably, as a potential threat and where a likely outcome is you getting slotted.

18 year old, too young to cc or buy their own beer, gets pulled over with a suspected dui - first thing the cop sees is your p*n*s substitute

OC around here is dangerous and stupid.

if you want to OC - join blackwater

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OC no offense but your young age shines brightly
> in your last post. Answering a question with a
> question? You need to stop posting on FU and pay
> a little more attention in school.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

OC is generally not a good idea, especially if you're by yourself. One kid walking down the road with a gun on in broad daylight is just asking for trouble. If I did it, I would fully expect the cops to come and ask me a few questions.

And, if you were ever in a situation where you had to use it (like in the aforementioned bank), then the bad guys would know exactly who to shoot first.

Do yourself a favor; enjoy your constitutional rights, but don't use them for an agenda. The open carry folks, if they're not careful, can hurt their cause more than help it.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OC is generally not a good idea, especially if
> you're by yourself. One kid walking down the road
> with a gun on in broad daylight is just asking for
> trouble. If I did it, I would fully expect the
> cops to come and ask me a few questions.
>
> And, if you were ever in a situation where you had
> to use it (like in the aforementioned bank), then
> the bad guys would know exactly who to shoot
> first.
>
> Do yourself a favor; enjoy your constitutional
> rights, but don't use them for an agenda. The
> open carry folks, if they're not careful, can hurt
> their cause more than help it.

1) I would have no problem if the police questioned me. I'm not doing anything illegal, and they would be able to tell that. If the officer knows anything about VA's gun laws then he or she would never question me in the first place.
2)Just don't OC in a bank, that solves your problem.

The cops are there to maintain the peace, and ticket people for tinted windows. So, let's say someone calls them out because you're walking around the mall with a gun strapped to your hip. You say, "But officer, we have open carry laws and the 2nd amendment," but what they hear is, "I'm a smartass kid wasting your time and even better, I think I'm smarter than you. Please fuck with me."

The reason why groups of guys like the VCDL open carry is because they are an organization with an agenda. You aren't. I'm all about exercising my rights and not having my freedoms infringed upon, but you have to be smart about it.

If you're just wearing it to be cool, then don't do it. If the mafia put a hit out on your life, then do it.

OC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OC is generally not a good idea, especially if
> > you're by yourself. One kid walking down the
> road
> > with a gun on in broad daylight is just asking
> for
> > trouble. If I did it, I would fully expect the
> > cops to come and ask me a few questions.
> >
> > And, if you were ever in a situation where you
> had
> > to use it (like in the aforementioned bank),
> then
> > the bad guys would know exactly who to shoot
> > first.
> >
> > Do yourself a favor; enjoy your constitutional
> > rights, but don't use them for an agenda. The
> > open carry folks, if they're not careful, can
> hurt
> > their cause more than help it.
>
> 1) I would have no problem if the police
> questioned me. I'm not doing anything illegal,
> and they would be able to tell that. If the
> officer knows anything about VA's gun laws then he
> or she would never question me in the first place.
>
> 2)Just don't OC in a bank, that solves your
> problem.


OC, I am a strong proponent of OC as anyone, however, if you OC in
Fairfax expect problems. If I were to walk out my front door right now
with my Ruger Blackhawk (.357 Mag, western style holster) I can
guarantee that sooner or later one of my neighbors would go nuts
and call the police just out of their own ignorance of the laws.
The police will respond and then I'd have to explain it to them. Okay,
fine. Now "neighborhood gossip" kicks in and rumors about "that nut
case with a gun" and now I have to live with it. Everywhere you go in
Fairfax there is no shortage of over-zealous do-gooders who feel
compelled to call the cops over everything. Like I said in a previous
reply, I like the OC laws, but only when absolutely necessary.

A few months ago a woman in my neighborhood inherited a pistol from
her uncle and she asked me what she had to do to register it. I explained
that there is no registration process and if she was legally in possession
of the gun then she is free to keep it, sell it, or give it to another
relative if she wished. She didnt believe one word of it and called
the cops with the same question. She got the same answser from them and
now she doesnt believe the cops either. Sad, but some people have their
minds made up and nothing will convince them otherwise. Its too bad we
live in an area infested with delusional nit-wits, but its reality.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The cops are there to maintain the peace, and
> ticket people for tinted windows. So, let's say
> someone calls them out because you're walking
> around the mall with a gun strapped to your hip.
> You say, "But officer, we have open carry laws and
> the 2nd amendment," but what they hear is, "I'm a
> smartass kid wasting your time and even better, I
> think I'm smarter than you. Please fuck with
> me."
>
> The reason why groups of guys like the VCDL open
> carry is because they are an organization with an
> agenda. You aren't. I'm all about exercising my
> rights and not having my freedoms infringed upon,
> but you have to be smart about it.
>
> If you're just wearing it to be cool, then don't
> do it. If the mafia put a hit out on your life,
> then do it.


Excellent advice for OC, but I'd take it step further and advise him
to join the VCDL and see what its like. I belonged a few years ago
but had to drop out due to a medical problem in the family.

BTW, something the articles about them in the media thats almost
never mentioned is the fact that several of the ones participating
in the Open Carry demonstrations are firearms attorneys. They can
teach you a lot about the laws and how to exercise your rights
responsibly.

I'm not carrying it to be cool. I'm a redneck, I like guns, I want to be able to defend myself, and I'm all for exercising my right to open carry. I wouldn't act like a smart ass if a Cop stopped me. I would act as polite as possible to anyone that questioned me. I don't want to send them a bad message. They need to understand that there is nothing wrong with OCing and that we are very nice people. Carrying a gun doesn't make as bad.

By the way, I have already been looking into VCDL and am thinking about joining.

You know what? Nevermind, dude. Get out there an make Dirty Harry look like a pussy. Wear that son-of-a-bitch everywhere.

Let us know when you have a problem.

I dont think anyone has pointed this out yet.

But it seems that OC is under 21..

That means he can NOT own a handgun. <<<---------

So this guy is contemplating to open carry what? a 3-08 rifle, maybe he can be real cool an open carry a AK-47 slung on his back.

Wow.. real genius



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2008 05:27PM by Take a Stand.

Take a Stand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont think anyone has pointed this out yet.
>
> But it seems that OC is under 21..
>
> That means he can NOT own a handgun.
> <<<---------
>
> So this guy is contemplating to open carry what?
> a 3-08 rifle, maybe he can be real cool an open
> carry a AK-47 slung on his back.
>
> Wow.. real genius

You are clearly not informed on Virginia's gun laws. I can (and I do) OWN and OPEN CARRY a HANDGUN at the age of 18.

Take A Stand, here's some info for you:
http://www.opencarry.com/va.html

Take a Stand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont think anyone has pointed this out yet.
>
> But it seems that OC is under 21..
>
> That means he can NOT own a handgun.
> <<<---------
>
> So this guy is contemplating to open carry what?
> a 3-08 rifle, maybe he can be real cool an open
> carry a AK-47 slung on his back.
>
> Wow.. real genius

This is precisely the kind of stereotypical/reactionary nonsense
I expect to encounter in Fairfax. Obviously not even vaguely familiar
with the laws and go off on an assumption that you can carry a
3-08 (Ive heard of a .308 before but never a 3-08) or an Ak-47
under OC laws. I recall the Washington Post editorials when Virginia
passed the statewide OC laws and they predicted a blood bath. It
hasnt happened. Unfortunately, this mindset will prevail as long
as there are people who are simply too lazy to read and comprehend
the laws on the books.

Good one for you, I made a typo.. pointing that out furthered your argument.

So where am I wrong. If he is under 21, which he has not yet denied. He can not carry a handgun. There for, he certainly can not open carry one.

So what is he going to carry openly?

I am not questioning the law. just his question!

Btw , I have had a concealed carry permit for the last 8 years. I use it mainly so I can carry my .45 while hunting in national forest and not get hassled by the game wardens.

So to recap..

Is OC under 21 ?
If one is under 21 you can not carry a handgun...right?
If you can not carry a handgun, what are you going to open carry?

Answer those questions and please just leave out the rhetoric.

Take a Stand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good one for you, I made a typo.. pointing that
> out furthered your argument.
>
> So where am I wrong. If he is under 21, which he
> has not yet denied. He can not carry a handgun.
> There for, he certainly can not open carry one.
>
> So what is he going to carry openly?
>
> I am not questioning the law. just his question!
>
> Btw , I have had a concealed carry permit for the
> last 8 years. I use it mainly so I can carry my
> .45 while hunting in national forest and not get
> hassled by the game wardens.
>
> So to recap..
>
> Is OC under 21 ?
> If one is under 21 you can not carry a
> handgun...right?
> If you can not carry a handgun, what are you going
> to open carry?
>
> Answer those questions and please just leave out
> the rhetoric.

Did you not just read anything that I posted?
YES, I'M UNDER 21 (I'm 18).
YES, OC IS UNDER 21 (It's 18).
IF I'M UNDER 21, I CAN CARRY A HANDGUN.

So let me see,

*you can NOT buy a handgun from a dealer under 21,
*you can NOT buy ammo for a handgun under 21..

So it was given to you or thru a private sale?

When you go to the range to practice, how can you buy the ammo? Someone buys it for you?

Take a Stand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So let me see,
>
> *you can NOT buy a handgun from a dealer under 21,
>
> *you can NOT buy ammo for a handgun under 21..
>
> So it was given to you or thru a private sale?
>
> When you go to the range to practice, how can you
> buy the ammo? Someone buys it for you?

That is correct. You can buy from a private dealer if you are 18, but you have to be 21 to purchase from a public dealer. My gun was giving to me from my Dad as an early Christmas gift. And, yes, someone else buys the ammo for me. So if you are 18 you can legally open carry a handgun, but you can't purchase one unless its through a private dealer.

That just seems like an awful lot of liability for an 18 year old to be open carrying a handgun.

But hey what ever.. I just hope for your sake, you understand when you pull your gun you should damn well be ready to kill someone.

At the age of 18....Why are you open carrying?
Please exclude the, I am exercising my rights argument

Do you feel threatened?
Is your life in a constant state of danger?
Do you often think about being in a situation where you can possibly use your handgun
Do you feel you are doing your civic duty by protecting the community since you have your gun on you all the time.



really I am interested in your answers.

Take a Stand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That just seems like an awful lot of liability for
> an 18 year old to be open carrying a handgun.
>
> But hey what ever.. I just hope for your sake, you
> understand when you pull your gun you should damn
> well be ready to kill someone.
>
> At the age of 18....Why are you open carrying?
> Please exclude the, I am exercising my rights
> argument
>
> Do you feel threatened?
> Is your life in a constant state of danger?
> Do you often think about being in a situation
> where you can possibly use your handgun
> Do you feel you are doing your civic duty by
> protecting the community since you have your gun
> on you all the time.
>
>
>
> really I am interested in your answers.

I understand that when I pull my gun I should be ready to kill someone. I hope I NEVER am faced with that situation. But in case something does happen, I want to be able to defend myself. Yes, I do want to exercise my right. No, I don't constantly feel threatened. But, if something ever were to happen, I want to be able to defend myself and/or others. If something did happen, would you rather call the Cops and wait several minutes, or have a gun and defend yourself in 1.5 seconds? That's the difference between life and death, my friend.

"my friend".. lol...You sir are no John McCain.

At the beginning of this thread (Dec 6th) you were asking if you can open carry and what the age was and the rules. Now a whole 24 hours later (Dec 7th) you are saying that you do open carry, and you are telling me how you want to protect yourself. Now you sound like you are an old pro at this open carry thing. Quoting bumper stickers and everything. btw its "when seconds count, the police are minutes away"

So how did you gain all this knowledge, Assuming you did not know the age requirements only 24 hours ago. Have you taken any firearms self defense course, like learning to shoot under pressure, in low-light and no light situations. Learning to shoot on the weak hand, draw and shoot scenarios, how to protect you sidearm in a fight.. etc etc etc..

What I am saying is, please leave your gun at home, wait until you get a couple more years on.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.7

"It shall be unlawful for any person UNDER 18 years of age to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm anywhere in the Commonwealth."

There's the law. If you're 18, you can possess a handgun.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.2C01
That's the open carry law. If it holds more than 20 rounds in the magazine, you cannot carry it. Therefor, you cannot carry an AK47 with a 20+ round magazine (majority hold 30). You can get a 20 rounder, but expect to be questioned. Carrying a rifle is stupid to begin with though.

Open carrying a handgun is also really unnecessary in this county. It causes too much commotion. I'm very pro-gun and I own a few rifles, a shotgun, and a handgun. When I turn 21 (currently 18) I plan on getting my CCW license. Open carrying is one of those rights like Freedom of Speech...just because you can say "Fire", doesn't mean you should say it in a crowded movie theater.

Be smart, especially with a right that many people frown upon. You only call attention to yourself, and our current legislation regarding the right to keep and bear arms.

Sorry, the second Link I posted was the wrong one. Stupid copy paste didn't work, but you should find all you need to know regarding firearms and carrying here: http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm

AMEN !

Lawman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Open carrying is
> one of those rights like Freedom of Speech...just
> because you can say "Fire", doesn't mean you
> should say it in a crowded movie theater.


Actually "LAWMAN"..lol One can not yell fire in a theater. It is against the law.
By doing so it would be infringing on others right to life and liberty.

"Brandenburg v. Ohio, which ruled that speech could only be banned when it was directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a riot, mass panic), the test which remains until this day. Despite Schenck being limited, the phrase "shouting fire in a crowded theater" has since come to be known as synonymous with an action that the speaker believes goes beyond the rights guaranteed by free speech, reckless or malicious speech, or an action whose outcomes are blatantly obvious."

Posted by: Bob ()
Date: December 07, 2008 02:00AM


watch out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Watch out for these two tough guys


No, watch out for scared mommies who will call the police if they see you carrying a gun.




This statment above shows exaclty why most people who open carry are idiots.
Yeah lets run around scaring the hell out of mommies and their small children cause its " MY RIGHT to carry a gun a damit"

He says that as if het gets off on scaring people and enjoys drawing attention to himself.


Oh wait. I forgot ITS HIS RIGHT..

Take a Stand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lawman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Open carrying is
> > one of those rights like Freedom of
> Speech...just
> > because you can say "Fire", doesn't mean you
> > should say it in a crowded movie theater.
>
>
> Actually "LAWMAN"..lol One can not yell fire in a
> theater. It is against the law.
> By doing so it would be infringing on others right
> to life and liberty.
>
> "Brandenburg v. Ohio, which ruled that speech
> could only be banned when it was directed to and
> likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a
> riot, mass panic), the test which remains until
> this day. Despite Schenck being limited, the
> phrase "shouting fire in a crowded theater" has
> since come to be known as synonymous with an
> action that the speaker believes goes beyond the
> rights guaranteed by free speech, reckless or
> malicious speech, or an action whose outcomes are
> blatantly obvious."


It was an example, you obviously missed the point of my argument just to troll. Just because you "can" do something (what stops somebody from yelling anything), doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Back in the 60's the Yippies, (specifically Abbie Hoffman) said that
"Freedom of speech is being able to yell "THEATER" in a crowded fire"

This is pretty off-the-wall, but the Second Amendment is more a more
precious Constitutional Right as it reaffirms the First Amendment.

Jerry Rubin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back in the 60's the Yippies, (specifically Abbie
> Hoffman) said that
> "Freedom of speech is being able to yell "THEATER"
> in a crowded fire"
>
> This is pretty off-the-wall, but the Second
> Amendment is more a more
> precious Constitutional Right as it reaffirms the
> First Amendment.

Agree completely, but I still believe that being a gun-owner is a great responsibility. Guns have been severely frowned upon as of late, and the new administration in January will almost certainly crack down on guns and enact "common sense" gun regulation. I'm not trying to start a Political war here, but it's just a fact. We WILL see new bills enter congress to limit the types of weapons that us, the citizens will be allowed to buy and own.

That said, I think we should try to avoid calling attention to ourselves with something as unnecessary as Open Carrying. Sure, it may be cool..but if someone were to rob you, they'd probably kill you first if they saw you were armed. Just my two sense.

Be responsible, and avoid unwanted attention on gun ownership.

thats whats up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why do all you rednecks feel its appropriate to
> carry a weapon around in a shopping center? You
> ever hear that 311 track 'Guns are for pussys'?

No, I don't care what some musician, or anyone else for that matter, says about my right to protect me an my family.

Get lost.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OC is generally not a good idea, especially if
> you're by yourself. One kid walking down the road
> with a gun on in broad daylight is just asking for
> trouble. If I did it, I would fully expect the
> cops to come and ask me a few questions.
>
> And, if you were ever in a situation where you had
> to use it (like in the aforementioned bank), then
> the bad guys would know exactly who to shoot
> first.
>
> Do yourself a favor; enjoy your constitutional
> rights, but don't use them for an agenda. The
> open carry folks, if they're not careful, can hurt
> their cause more than help it.


So many misconceptions, where to begin.....(sigh)

Thousands of people, young/old, male/female, fit/handicapped, open carry everyday throughout the commonwealth of Virginia without incident.

It has gotten to the point of being a boring commonplace occurrence.

As far as "bad guys would know exactly who to shoot
> first." I have yet for ANYONE to show an example of this happening, because it HASN'T. OC is a deterrent to bad people who'd like to do bad things.

"The open carry folks, if they're not careful, can hurt
their cause more than help it."

Sorry, I won't go to the "back of the bus" because you don't want to rock the boat.

suicide by cop? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OC Wrote:
> police if they see you carrying a gun.
> >
> > That's why I'm a bit nervous about open
> carrying.
> > Some idiots don't understand that it's my right
> as
> > a Virginian. Funny thing is, they should feel
> > safe, not scared, when they see people open
> > carrying.
>
>
> You're completely mad. There's no justification
> for the carrying of sidearms by civilians in a
> civil society. Sidearms are for killing people -
> and if you don't intend on killing someone, don't
> oc
>
> Open carry may be your lawful right but you will
> get justifiably hassled - I for one do not want
> untrained nutters carrying semi-automatics near my
> kids
>
> Its also a very fine line between open carry and
> brandishing which will get you more hassle than
> you want
>
> If you open carry, you are asking to get shot by
> mistake and no one will shed a tear
>
> if you're scared - live somewhere where you don't
> need a gun
>
> If you're worried about your manhood - sign up for
> a tour in Iraq


Wow. You must be a mommy.

Did you know that the majority of police officers respect open carry and conceal carry people more than the average "taxpayer" when they encounter them???

When a cop deals with a person who hands over all of his permits and tells the cop right away that he currently is in possession of a hand gun, the cop realizes that this is a person who is not only law abiding, but also respects the job that the cop has to do.

Cops worry about dipshits carrying guns, not citizens who let them know immediately that they possess a gun.

I have a friend who has a conceal carry permit. He drives a ferrari, and he gets pulled over all the time because he obviously drives a little bit faster than the speed limit.

He has never gotten a speeding ticket.

When he gets pulled over, he has his driver's license, registration, insurance and conceal carry permit ready. He hands them all to the cop, and tells the cop whether or not he has the weapon on his person at the moment. If he does, he tells the cop that he is willing to give it to the officer until he lets him go, if that makes him feel safe. No cop has ever said "yes, I need to take control of your weapon", they always say "thank you for telling me about your weapon. I only need your license and registration. I'll be right back".

Cops are smarter than soccer moms.

I also have a conceal permit (I use it to conceal in my car primarily). I have not been pulled over yet but I probably would tell the cop (you are not required by VA law to do so, but when they run your license they will know anyway). I have heard some horror stories though of cops calling for backup and doing felony like procedures on those who did inform but I don't think that's very common.

As for as OCing at 18, I wouldn't do it even though you can technically. I've OCed a few times but never felt comfortable calling so much attention to myself. Most people however never seemed to notice.

Mofo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also have a conceal permit (I use it to conceal
> in my car primarily). I have not been pulled over
> yet but I probably would tell the cop (you are not
> required by VA law to do so, but when they run
> your license they will know anyway). I have heard
> some horror stories though of cops calling for
> backup and doing felony like procedures on those
> who did inform but I don't think that's very
> common.
>
> As for as OCing at 18, I wouldn't do it even
> though you can technically. I've OCed a few times
> but never felt comfortable calling so much
> attention to myself. Most people however never
> seemed to notice.

Honestly, most cops look at OC and CC people as allies, not risks.

They are professionals, they know who they have to worry about.

WHen they encounter a person who is open and willing to admit to a police officer that they either are currently carrying a weapon or have a license to carry one but do not have one at the moment, they actually feel at ease with the person. It's almost like joining a fraternity. The cops know that you respected the law, respect them and are not a criminal.

You can't get a conceal carry permit without the approval og a police chief or sherriff's department approving it.

You are now, automatically, a pre-cleared citizen. The cops know that you are a law-abiding citizen who poses no risk, or at least less risk, to them.

The rest of us are unknowns. NOT having a permit leaves us, in the minds of police officers, as people that might possess a gun for nefarius reasons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2008 02:46AM by Bob.

I turn 21 next year and am totally psyched to open carry around here. Guns are fucking awesome and I could care less what some of these pussies think, it's totally my RIGHT to bear arms and I think it will be funny to see the scared look on your faces. I have questions though about how far you can go to defend yourself. Like what if i'm at a party and some asshole decides to get all tough and gets up in my face and starts giving me shit like he wants to start a fight? Can I legally pull out my gun just to calm things down, or does he have to actually put his hands on me first? Or what if I get jumped? Can you legally fire the weapon, or do they have to have threatened you in the first place? I know I can probably find out online but figured someone here might know. Do you have to keep the safety on?

I seriously can't wait- legal to drink, legal to defend my constitutional rights. God bless Virginia!

OC'ing at a "party". Brilliant idea.

I solve the problem by smoking the ganja... you can't be anywhere near a gun if you're high in this state (or if it's even in your bloodstream).

Ok. I'm going to open carry in public, and take a video camera with me to record what happens when I try to go about my business with a .40 caliber handgun on my belt. I'm sure I'll have people crawling out of the woodwork to congratulate me on my amendments.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok. I'm going to open carry in public, and take a
> video camera with me to record what happens when I
> try to go about my business with a .40 caliber
> handgun on my belt.

umm... yeah, because having a camera everywhere you go is not going to bring some attention to yourself.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2008 10:31AM by Gravis.

I think a camera would draw less attention than a big fuck-off handgun, but I've been wrong before. Maybe I'll have someone else follow me and film it.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a camera would draw less attention than a
> big fuck-off handgun, but I've been wrong before.
> Maybe I'll have someone else follow me and film
> it.


that will not work either. you clearly dont know how much attention cameras bring. you need a hidden camera like one of these:

http://www.electroflip.com/shopexd.asp?id=99
http://eyespypro.com/products/Hi%252dRes-PI%252dCamStick-%252d-World%27s-Smallest-Digital-Video-Recorder.html


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think a camera would draw less attention than
> a
> > big fuck-off handgun, but I've been wrong
> before.
> > Maybe I'll have someone else follow me and film
> > it.
>
>
> that will not work either. you clearly dont know
> how much attention cameras bring. you need a
> hidden camera like one of these:
>
> http://www.electroflip.com/shopexd.asp?id=99
> http://eyespypro.com/products/Hi%252dRes-PI%252dCa
> mStick-%252d-World%27s-Smallest-Digital-Video-Reco
> rder.html

That second one looks kind of neat-o. Do you know where I can get one of those locally?

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That second one looks kind of neat-o. Do you know
> where I can get one of those locally?

yes, it's right in front of you, it's called your computer. what do you have against purchasing stuff on the internet?

i found a nifty pen one: http://eyespypro.com/products/Upgraded-Spy-Pen-Digital-Video-Recorder-Now-640-x-480.html

they also came out with a better version of the clip on cam: http://eyespypro.com/products/Updated-PI-CamStick--Personal-Interview-Recorder.html


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

OK folks, I tried reading this thread but it got painful very quick so I'm skipping to the bottom w/o reading the rest.

First of all, VA did not pass a law to make OC "legal". There has never been a state law criminalizing OC. Localities (such as Alexandria) made laws criminalizing OC which were pre-emted by the legislature. See http://vaguninfo.com/pages/opencarry.htm for more info on open carry in "laws" Virginia.

Secondly, all this crazy talk about police shooting you, moms calling the police, or neighbors flipping out is just that, it's crazy talk. If the police receive a report about a "man with a gun" (MWAG from here on out) the dispatcher will inform the complainant that OC is legal in Virginia and unless the person in question is doing something suspicious the police have nothing to investigate, as OC is legal activity. The police sometimes will offer to send a unit out to look at the MWAG but the officer will not speak to the MWAG unless something fishy is going on. How do I know? I OC all the time and have had the police called on me. I've even watched someone call the police on me while I stood 10 feet away from them. It's always funny to watch their face as the dispatcher delivers the news to them. I've also had the police respond to reports about me. They never speak to me, just drive by and check things out. I make it a point to wave at them and wish them a nice day as they drive past.

Ahh, lastly the "does OC reduce crime" question and the challenge to prove it with statistics. Observer wrote: "Simply look at an area that allows open carry, we can use NOVA. Now, locate the crime rate for the NOVA area, you could be even more specific and just use Fairfax County. Now, find a county that doesn't allow open carry with the near the same population. Compare the stats and you have a statistic to use in your advantage".

I'll take you up on that challenge. But since I'm busy I won't even bother to look up the stats/facts. Let's compare Fairfax County to DC. One allows open carry, the other does not. Where do YOU feel safer? Want to go shopping sometime in Tenelytown? (the area were gun violence is so bad the DC police are setting up unconstitutional checkpoints)

I'm gonna wrap this up by saying there is a lot of innuendo, half-truths, and emotional garbage tainting this topic. If you want to open carry a legal sidearm in VA then do so. Read vaguninfo.com, vcdl.org, and opencarry.org for more educational information before you do open carry.

If anyone has questions specific to open or concealed carry in VA feel free to email me at vaguninfo ^at^ gmail ^dot^ com and I will provide you the *correct* answers to your questions w/o the baloney and emotional garbage found in this thread.

Tenleytown???

I think you're thinking of Trinidad.

Ahh, yup. My bad.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That second one looks kind of neat-o. Do you
> know
> > where I can get one of those locally?
>
> yes, it's right in front of you, it's called your
> computer. what do you have against purchasing
> stuff on the internet?
>
> i found a nifty pen one:
> http://eyespypro.com/products/Upgraded-Spy-Pen-Dig
> ital-Video-Recorder-Now-640-x-480.html
>
> they also came out with a better version of the
> clip on cam:
> http://eyespypro.com/products/Updated-PI-CamStick-
> -Personal-Interview-Recorder.html

For anything over $50, I'd like to be able to at least look at it before I buy it. I've had a couple disappointing experiences, and return policies are usually a pain in the ass.

RudeDawg69 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I turn 21 next year and am totally psyched to open
> carry around here. Guns are fucking awesome and I
> could care less what some of these pussies think,
> it's totally my RIGHT to bear arms and I think it
> will be funny to see the scared look on your
> faces. I have questions though about how far
> you can go to defend yourself. Like what if i'm
> at a party and some asshole decides to get all
> tough and gets up in my face and starts giving me
> shit like he wants to start a fight? Can I
> legally pull out my gun just to calm things down,
> or does he have to actually put his hands on me
> first? Or what if I get jumped? Can you legally
> fire the weapon, or do they have to have
> threatened you in the first place? I know I can
> probably find out online but figured someone here
> might know. Do you have to keep the safety on?
>
> I seriously can't wait- legal to drink, legal to
> defend my constitutional rights. God bless
> Virginia!


Please, make sure if you decide to OC or CC, be the most upstanding, polite, responsible citizen you can be. Make sure you know the laws, and don't act like an idiot, or brandish your weapon. If you draw your weapon, you need to be prepared to take a life. There is no drawing to "calm things down." VAguninfo can probably clarify on the laws. Avoid confrontation, and learn to walk away. There is no point in someone getting shot (and possibly killed) if it can be avoided. Someone breaking into your home and trying to kill you is a different story, but if someone just tries to start a fight, walk away. Also, don't drink while carrying. Not only is it irresponsible, but you are also giving the anti-gun people even more reason to not like guns ("I saw some drunk guy carrying a gun, and he said it was legal!"). In fact it's illegal to be under the influence while carrying a gun. And then there's also the additional liability issue. Oh, and if you carry in a place with a liquor license, you have to OC (in VA). And be careful in bars/restaurants. Say you're OCing. You order a coke to drink while you wait. Some incident occurs where your weapon discharges (self-defense or otherwise). Witness says he saw you drinking a rum and coke. That doesn't look very good for you.

Taking some time off
Attachments:

nakedshoplifter Wrote:

> I'll take you up on that challenge. But since I'm
> busy I won't even bother to look up the
> stats/facts. Let's compare Fairfax County to DC.
> One allows open carry, the other does not. Where
> do YOU feel safer? Want to go shopping sometime in
> Tenelytown? (the area were gun violence is so bad
> the DC police are setting up unconstitutional
> checkpoints)
>

if you banned OC in great falls or langley or even fairfax city, they wouldn't become south-east

the reason DC has such has a gun crime problem is not because OC was banned - that's a disservice to the law-abiding residents of DC who would like to be able to shop in safety. Poverty, gangs, drugs, appalling schools and illegally held handguns have much more to do with it

zero reason to believe that OC in high crime areas reduces gun crime - its much more likely to raise the stakes.

if you live somewhere where you're so scared that you need to carry a gun, move. If you keep getting into situations where you need to carry a gun, change bars.

I have no problem with hunting (except in suburbia when its a dangerous idea) and target shooting (properly maintained berms etc) but seriously, this is 21C Fairfax, not 19C Texas

too many cases of kids have accidents with improperly stored pistols

dodgy logic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> too many cases of kids have accidents with
> improperly stored pistols


OH NO, THINK OF THE CHILDREN! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children

Oh, and let's start censoring the internet too. Lots of bad stuff out there. It's for the children, of course.

Your name says it all.

dodgy logic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nakedshoplifter Wrote:
>
> > I'll take you up on that challenge. But since
> I'm
> > busy I won't even bother to look up the
> > stats/facts. Let's compare Fairfax County to
> DC.
> > One allows open carry, the other does not.
> Where
> > do YOU feel safer? Want to go shopping sometime
> in
> > Tenelytown? (the area were gun violence is so
> bad
> > the DC police are setting up unconstitutional
> > checkpoints)
> >
>
> if you banned OC in great falls or langley or even
> fairfax city, they wouldn't become south-east
>
> the reason DC has such has a gun crime problem is
> not because OC was banned - that's a disservice to
> the law-abiding residents of DC who would like to
> be able to shop in safety. Poverty, gangs, drugs,
> appalling schools and illegally held handguns have
> much more to do with it
>
> zero reason to believe that OC in high crime areas
> reduces gun crime - its much more likely to raise
> the stakes.
>
> if you live somewhere where you're so scared that
> you need to carry a gun, move. If you keep getting
> into situations where you need to carry a gun,
> change bars.
>
> I have no problem with hunting (except in
> suburbia when its a dangerous idea) and target
> shooting (properly maintained berms etc) but
> seriously, this is 21C Fairfax, not 19C Texas
>
> too many cases of kids have accidents with
> improperly stored pistols

When you people understand!? We don't OC because we feel threatened. You never know when you could be in a situation that requires you to defend yourself or others. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Posted by: RudeDawg69 ()
Date: December 08, 2008 09:00AM


I turn 21 next year and am totally psyched to open carry around here. Guns are fucking awesome and I could care less what some of these pussies think, it's totally my RIGHT to bear arms and I think it will be funny to see the scared look on your faces. I have questions though about how far you can go to defend yourself. Like what if i'm at a party and some asshole decides to get all tough and gets up in my face and starts giving me shit like he wants to start a fight? Can I legally pull out my gun just to calm things down, or does he have to actually put his hands on me first? Or what if I get jumped? Can you legally fire the weapon, or do they have to have threatened you in the first place? I know I can probably find out online but figured someone here might know. Do you have to keep the safety on?

I seriously can't wait- legal to drink, legal to defend my constitutional rights. God bless Virginia!





Yet another brillant statment from a "its my right dumb ass". Keep them coming !! you OC people are making a great case for your cause. This is just the guy I want with a gun.

geez Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dodgy logic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> When you people understand!? We don't OC because
> we feel threatened. You never know when you could
> be in a situation that requires you to defend
> yourself or others. I'd rather be safe than
> sorry.

Most of us aren't looking for a delusional, self-appointed gunslinger to 'defend' us. Thanks anyway.

Take a Stand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lawman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> Open carrying is
> > one of those rights like Freedom of
> Speech...just
> > because you can say "Fire", doesn't mean you
> > should say it in a crowded movie theater.
>
>
> Actually "LAWMAN"..lol One can not yell fire in a
> theater. It is against the law.
> By doing so it would be infringing on others right
> to life and liberty.
>
> "Brandenburg v. Ohio, which ruled that speech
> could only be banned when it was directed to and
> likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a
> riot, mass panic), the test which remains until
> this day. Despite Schenck being limited, the
> phrase "shouting fire in a crowded theater" has
> since come to be known as synonymous with an
> action that the speaker believes goes beyond the
> rights guaranteed by free speech, reckless or
> malicious speech, or an action whose outcomes are
> blatantly obvious."


I'm sorry to see that your knowledge base is derived from Wikipedia articles. Wikipedia is not always the best source for information. In this instance, you have overlooked a fundamental flaw in your argument. It is not always against the law to shout "fire" in a crowded theater. Sometimes it is required of you... such as when there is a fire in a crowded theater. In that instance, your actions are protected by law. Much like open carrying a firearm is protected by law. As long as you don't do anything to endanger others or incite fear and panic, you may peacefully do so.

This brings me to my question for you. In fact, anyone may answer this question:
Who is responsible for your personal safety?

boristhebulletdodger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take a Stand Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lawman Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > Open carrying is
> > > one of those rights like Freedom of
> > Speech...just
> > > because you can say "Fire", doesn't mean you
> > > should say it in a crowded movie theater.
> >
> >
> > Actually "LAWMAN"..lol One can not yell fire in
> a
> > theater. It is against the law.
> > By doing so it would be infringing on others
> right
> > to life and liberty.
> >
> > "Brandenburg v. Ohio, which ruled that speech
> > could only be banned when it was directed to
> and
> > likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g.
> a
> > riot, mass panic), the test which remains until
> > this day. Despite Schenck being limited, the
> > phrase "shouting fire in a crowded theater" has
> > since come to be known as synonymous with an
> > action that the speaker believes goes beyond
> the
> > rights guaranteed by free speech, reckless or
> > malicious speech, or an action whose outcomes
> are
> > blatantly obvious."
>
>
> I'm sorry to see that your knowledge base is
> derived from Wikipedia articles. Wikipedia is not
> always the best source for information. In this
> instance, you have overlooked a fundamental flaw
> in your argument. It is not always against the law
> to shout "fire" in a crowded theater. Sometimes it
> is required of you... such as when there is a fire
> in a crowded theater. In that instance, your
> actions are protected by law. Much like open
> carrying a firearm is protected by law. As long as
> you don't do anything to endanger others or incite
> fear and panic, you may peacefully do so.
>
> This brings me to my question for you. In fact,
> anyone may answer this question:
> Who is responsible for your personal safety?


Glad to see someone with sense. I'm all for open carrying, it's just the sheep-minded "general public" don't understand the concept. They will all call the Police and report a man(or woman) with a gun. It's the lack of knowledge that makes people fear something. I bet nobody would fear guns like they do if they actually understood how they work and actually fired one.

But I fully blame this on the media. Every time there's a shooting, they like to throw in words like "automatic" and "assault weapon". Those are words that sell papers. When in fact, an assault weapon is hardly ever used in a crime - due to size.

You are 73% more likely to shoot yourself, a family member or friend, than a burglar.

Gun Nutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are 73% more likely to shoot yourself, a
> family member or friend, than a burglar.

clearly people need to do some target practice.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gun Nutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are 73% more likely to shoot yourself, a
> family member or friend, than a burglar.


You are 100% full of made up statistics.

Please read:
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.0/GunFacts5-0-screen.pdf
refer to section on "Guns and Crime prevention". All sources are cited in the PDF at the bottom of each page.

Lawman Wrote:

> Glad to see someone with sense. I'm all for open
> carrying, it's just the sheep-minded "general
> public" don't understand the concept. They will
> all call the Police and report a man(or woman)
> with a gun. It's the lack of knowledge that makes
> people fear something. I bet nobody would fear
> guns like they do if they actually understood how
> they work and actually fired one.
>
> But I fully blame this on the media. Every time
> there's a shooting, they like to throw in words
> like "automatic" and "assault weapon". Those are
> words that sell papers. When in fact, an assault
> weapon is hardly ever used in a crime - due to
> size.


That's one major reason why I want to OC. It spreads awareness.

Bob

I think you're onto something here. Don't get me wrong, I disagree with most of the actual points you're trying to make but what a great gameshow idea! "Are you Smarter than a Soccer Mom?"

Nice.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tenleytown???
>
> I think you're thinking of Trinidad.


No shit. I used to live on Western Ave, and shopped at Tenleytown all the time. I shopped the Whole Foods, the CVS, went to the hollywood video, etc. I Knew the owner of Babe's Billiard, ate at Guapos, and even drank at the Round Table, and never had to worry about "gun violence".

Even when I drank too much at Babe's and the owner or his son would take my keys and drive my car into the garage below their bar and made me walk the mile or so home at 3 am, I never worried about crime of any sort. We're talking about AU Park, for christ's sake.

Gun Nutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are 73% more likely to shoot yourself, a
> family member or friend, than a burglar.


89% of statistics are made up.

You are an idiot.

I OC on occasion.

I revive threads that are years old on occasion.

It seems as though there are some widely dispersed opinions on the subject. I'm just glad we live in a country and state where we can all make such decisions for ourselves on this issue, and are free to go banana-nuts about said decisions on our respective county-based discussion forums. GBA.

I see no reason to open carry; maybe if I was going to do something public with extreme valuables I might open carry. I understand Starbucks has lots of people open carrying though I've never seen it. I've seen quite a number of people with empty holsters at various places. And once, just once, I've seen a person actually ope carrying - he was just about as wide as he was tall, standing outside a gun show.

That's it.

The FFX county police and Loudoun County Sheriff's are always quick to harass an open carrying citizen. Especially a black one.

I for one support open carry and if your willing to accept the additional risk then by all means exercise your right. However, there is some wisdom to this old 1958 Johnny Cash tune that still has relevance today:

A young cowboy named Billy Joe grew restless on the farm
A boy filled with wonderlust who really meant no harm
He changed his clothes and shined his boots
And combed his dark hair down
And his mother cried as he walked out

[Chorus]
Don't take your guns to town son
Leave your guns at home Bill
Don't take your guns to town

He laughed and kissed his mom
And said your Billy Joe's a man
I can shoot as quick and straight as anybody can
But I wouldn't shoot without a cause
I'd gun nobody down
But she cried again as he rode away

[Chorus]
Don't take your guns to town son
Leave your guns at home Bill
Don't take your guns to town

He sang a song as on he rode
His guns hung at his hips
He rode into a cattle town
A smile upon his lips
He stopped and walked into a bar
And laid his money down
But his mother's words echoed again

[Chorus]
Don't take your guns to town son
Leave your guns at home Bill
Don't take your guns to town

He drank his first strong liquor then to calm his shaking hand
And tried to tell himself he had become a man
A dusty cowpoke at his side began to laugh him down
And he heard again his mothers words

[Chorus]
Don't take your guns to town son
Leave your guns at home Bill
Don't take your guns to town

Filled with rage then
Billy Joe reached for his gun to draw
But the stranger drew his gun and fired
Before he even saw
As Billy Joe fell to the floor
The crowd all gathered 'round
And wondered at his final words

[Chorus]
Don't take your guns to town son
Leave your guns at home Bill
Don't take your guns to town

It's pretty easy to fear or disagree with something you don't fully understand.

I'm a military police officer in the U.S. Army reserves, former active duty. I'm a private security officer, certified armorer in several different firearms, and a certified NRA firearms instructor. While I have my concealed carry license, I often open carry because it's generally more comfortable, especially in the hot weather.

No one in my years of open carrying in Fairfax, Arlington, Loudon, and Prince William counties has ever "hassled" me or have called law enforcement my way. I've had open conversations with police officers who also have not said a word about it. Was this because I act and dress in a professional manner while carrying? It might be, but honestly Fairfax county has been specifically briefed about Open Carry laws since they have had several incidents resulting in possible lawsuits against the county depriving citizens of their constitutional rights.

I bought my first handgun when I was 19 through a private sale. I was gifted ammo for said handgun not long after. I open carried my handgun as soon as I was able to have ammo in it. Nothing what I did was illegal in any way. Sure, I had several stares and double takes but what would expect in an extremely liberal area such as Northern Virginia.

The misunderstanding about "registering a firearm" is quite sad. I feel strongly about my firearms rights and have learned the laws in which they reside both at state and federal levels. I would hope that anyone who feels strongly about gun laws (whether they are for or against them) would learn them too, instead of just having inaccurate views that they hear or see in movies

"Funny thing is, they should feel safe, not scared, when they see people open carrying"
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just me again Wrote:
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> "Funny thing is, they should feel safe, not
> scared, when they see people open carrying"


And had their been armed people there his wouldnt have been able to do as much damage as he did. Nice try through with the gunman picture

What a buch of pussy ass holes

"And had their been armed people there his wouldnt have been able to do as much damage as he did"

Speculation only wouldnt you say?

Mice fry Wrote:
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>
> Speculation only wouldnt you say?


Not really someone would have been able to shoot him. There certainly wouldnt have been more damage. Maybe he would have seen the guns and not picked that target at all. Its funny how gun crimes are the highest in places where guns are banned

"Maybe he would have seen the guns and not picked that target at all"

are we talking about the same guy, look at his picture do you think he gave a rats ass is anyone was packing or not? The guy is nuts.

"Not really someone would have been able to shoot him. There certainly wouldnt have been more damage"

Again specualtion. You assume the ones shooting back hit their target and not more innocent people. Unlike Hollywood movies bullets dont always find their mark.

I support the right to own guns but allowing people to carry weapns with 30+ round magazines is just asking for trouble.

"Its funny how gun crimes are the highest in places where guns are banned"


So true. Gun laws only prevent law abiding citizens the opportunity to defend themselves and others. There are laws against robbing and killing people, yet they still do it. Who really thinks gun bans will stop people from using guns? It does nothing more than tell the bad guy that the general public is not armed and sitting ducks.

I don't put my seatbelt on expecting to crash my car, it's preventative, for safety. My sidearm serves the same purpose, I'm not looking to cause a scene, I just want to be prepared, because things can happen ANYWHERE at ANYTIME.

my response Wrote:
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> are we talking about the same guy, look at his
> picture do you think he gave a rats ass is anyone
> was packing or not? The guy is nuts.

>
> Again specualtion. You assume the ones shooting
> back hit their target and not more innocent
> people. Unlike Hollywood movies bullets dont
> always find their mark.
>
> I support the right to own guns but allowing
> people to carry weapns with 30+ round magazines is
> just asking for trouble.


No one knows what was going through his head but him. While he may have been targeting her it was still an easy target with no police there ect. Yes its not the movies but if people had guns he wouldnt have been able to walk around just shooting people. Someone would have got him or seen him walking up with his pistol in his hand. Or maybe no one would have seen him. Youre right we dont know what would have happened, but between the option of having people armed against a gunman or being unarmed Id take my chances with the armed group every time.

Its sad something like that happened and hes a twisted individual. All im saying is the people trying to blame guns for that are clearly misguided. All banning something does is just make sure that law abiding people dont have it. Look at drugs, weapons ect. Someone who wants to shoot up a group of people isnt going to not do it because its illegal to have a gun or guns are banned in that place.

Yea, what a turd.

With all the wackos posting on this thread, it's no wonder why we have such a gun-crazy culture here in the United States. Elementary and middle schools kids are shooting up their classrooms, and "pissed" ex-boyfriends are pumping the old girlfriend and new boyfriend full of lead. God help us all.