^^^^^^^^^^^Are you saying we need to do this? I think we just need to get the money and staff out of the restaurants and back into the schools.

I have bad news Barb, you are not a messenger. You are an anti-FCPS crusader, and this includes your disdain for the teachers receiving any sort of thank you/appreciation treats from the big, bad school administrators. If you were simply a messenger, you would just post your FOIA info. You spew your venom (which certainly is your right), and this voids your status of messenger.

This was actually SEATED not HEATED massages. Second glance. Looks like this was just for Admin. Tow hours, $40 tip, $40 set-up fee.
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I think this is the best thread to ever hit the underground. this was a brilliant idea. I love the commentary. I wish the rest of you would STFU.

We are just about wrapping up the restaurant tour. Indigo Landing for Admin Support, $35 per person. Mike's American Grill for the Admin Team at $28 per person.

I am sure you realize that the restaurant reports were merely skimming the surface of thousands of entries.
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I think we need to set up a GoFund Me account & keep this going.

FCPS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have bad news Barb, you are not a messenger. You
> are an anti-FCPS crusader, and this includes your
> disdain for the teachers receiving any sort of
> thank you/appreciation treats from the big, bad
> school administrators. If you were simply a
> messenger, you would just post your FOIA info. You
> spew your venom (which certainly is your right),
> and this voids your status of messenger.

I disagree with you Parent.

I see no problem with school principals having a slush fund so that they can provide their employees and volunteers with some of the smaller amenities that employees in the private sector routinely get. The notion that teachers should be expected to brown bag it for staff meetings, or should have to kick in to pay for Dominos pizza for a volunteer appreciation day is ridiculous.

Further I suspect that part of the problem may be limitations on what the money can be spent on.

However the spending patterns that are emerging are showing a great deal of arrogance on the part of those charged with overseeing these funds. I doubt a large amount of these expenditures would have occurred if the principals (or whoever is in charge of these funds) had thought they would become public knowledge. This is where the OP's efforts have been productive.

It should be remembered that each of those dollars that the principal spent were paid for by some kid or some kid's parents for the privilege of parking. If those slush funds did not exist, those parking fees might well be less.

The question I would like to see answered is why slush funding was done this way. Middle and elementary schools have just as legitimate need for some discretionary funding, but could not rely on parking fees. Do these schools not have those types of funds? If so, why don't high schools use the same sources for funds?

Bill N makes good points. Think the public should know that more than parking fees go into the accounts. I think a portion of monopole fees, picture commissions and some vending machine profits go into it as well, but Fact Checker probably knows that and can repeat it for those late to the thread. Parents should also know that PTSAs in elementary schools have much more funding to direct to teacher appreciation and to classroom amenities. PTSA embership goes down dramatically for HS. A large HS could have just 400 members for an enrollment of over 2000. The superintendent and the school board must acknowledge the out of control spending that SOME administrative teams have been enjoying. Some of the schools listed routinely run out of copy paper! And do not have enough $ for supplemental texts. What bad modeling is being displayed by those enjoying luxury when teachers and other employees are not living the luxe life. And for the record, at many schools teachers contribute to a custodian lunch in recogniton of their hard work. We do take care of one another.

Teacher workday today, big day for local catering folks. Just finished my brown bag but you're welcome , lunch is on the taxpayers today.

Ummmm, I ate out of a bag today - a plastic one to be specific that included a turkey sandwhich prepared at my home and I prefer Miracle Whip to Mayo. So, again wrong with the generalizations.

Your principal is a tightwad. The school I worked at the very least had Subway for everyone and many times a red, hot,and blue lunch. Oh and they brought in the ice cream folks too for desert.

My large Vienna school provided no food today (no surprise, we usually only get food from the PTA about twice a year, and provided by the school at Curriculum Night for next year's incoming students).

Also, on today's Strategic Planning Day, I actually had less planning time than on a normal school day because of all the required meetings and trainings today. Fun times!

Bill N. brings up some good points, as usual. However, it is very typical in the government sector to have brown bag meetings. I went to a lot of them in a federal facility. Or we brought in baked goods from home. I know several people who work at the federal level and as civilian contractors, both at a senior level. I have never heard tales of this kind of publicly funded meals. They are also very surprised at this. They do potlucks, brown bags, and Dutch treat. The local government is not obligated to provide meals and food for staff except for the $11.50 for off-hours meals if you don't receive a salary supplement. A spread from Corner Bakery or Panera for your weekly morning or afternoon collaboration is not supposed to be the norm. This isn't the private sector so you need to quit comparing it to that. Apples and oranges.

In the new guidelines a small amount of awards and treats are allowed. There is a cap. Light refreshments are also allowed. This is very vague. These are very closely watched in many federal circles. There is a LOT of waste in government but they sure don't want to be obviously feeding huge groups of people, etc.

I will post what the new slush fund guidelines are. They have also been authorized to use appropriated funds to a limited extent for some staff treats. There is much work to be done with oversight on this. Gifts and flowers have supposed to have been coming from a staff sunshine fund for many years now. That is in black and white in the regulations.

The slush fund consists of a portion of parking pass money, community use fees, retained tuition, some interest, vending machine commission/profits, maybe a couple of other things. Monopole income used to be included. That has been moved to an Administrative fund. A portion of retained lost textbook fees used to be allowed in this account, but that will be kept separate with the goal of the money to be used to buy textbooks instead of donuts. The middle and elementary schools don't have parking passes, but they rent out their buildings all the time and have vending machines, lost textbooks, and some kids who pay tuition. So, they still potentially have thousands available to them.

Hopefully Adobe reader is going to cooperate.

For those who skimmed over these, I am again posting this information.

The School Finance Handbook is brand new Sept. 1. Version 1.0. It brings together a lot of regulations. Page 70 is regarding incidentals. The ECA/slush fund is on page 38. Use of p-cards is on page 180.

Reg. 5810 is from 2005. Yes, it is almost 10 years old. page 34-35 covers the ECA/slush fund. Gifts are covered on page 37.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ECA is on PAGE 138, NOT 38 in the new school finance handbook.

I am presenting the current notice for salary supplements. The coaches, music teachers, yearbook adviser, etc. all get salary supplements. So, no $11.50 for them for things that involve these duties.

I also have 5310 here (again) showing the local travel regulations. Also, non-local. GSA per diem is the plan for non-local travel. Local is $11.50 or mileage for things outside of regular duty hours like a meeting, something other than Back to School Night. I don't see that Bazin's, etc. is the plan for these.
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must be a title 1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your principal is a tightwad. The school I worked
> at the very least had Subway for everyone and
> many times a red, hot,and blue lunch. Oh and they
> brought in the ice cream folks too for desert.



Trust me, I saw it all. The $1800 ice cream bills, the hundreds of smoothies, the thousands dropped at BBQ joints, the delis, the sandwich shops, Panera, Corner Bakery, you name it. At least a quarter of a million dollars, probably more. And the restaurant list is amazing. Sad, really.

I took in large, expensive platters to help out for special teacher/staff functions in high school, particularly because I was told it was hard to get high school parents to donate things like that for the staff. Little did I know they were taking my parking pass money and hitting the restaurants all over town on a very regular basis. Yeh.

Whats for lunch today? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teacher workday today, big day for local catering
> folks. Just finished my brown bag but you're
> welcome , lunch is on the taxpayers today.



I have always looked forward to Teacher Workdays, etc. Brought in extra staff.

the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> must be a title 1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Your principal is a tightwad. The school I
> worked
> > at the very least had Subway for everyone
> and
> > many times a red, hot,and blue lunch. Oh and
> they
> > brought in the ice cream folks too for desert.
>
>
>
> Trust me, I saw it all. The $1800 ice cream bills,
> the hundreds of smoothies, the thousands dropped
> at BBQ joints, the delis, the sandwich shops,
> Panera, Corner Bakery, you name it. At least a
> quarter of a million dollars, probably more. And
> the restaurant list is amazing. Sad, really.
>
> I took in large, expensive platters to help out
> for special teacher/staff functions in high
> school, particularly because I was told it was
> hard to get high school parents to donate things
> like that for the staff. Little did I know they
> were taking my parking pass money and hitting the
> restaurants all over town on a very regular basis.
> Yeh.


The school I was at had so many "dessert" breaks at after school staff meetings they were going to have to contract with weight watchers. {for those that didn't skip out)

I am working through the West Potomac numbers. I pulled "credit card charges" on about $17,000 covering about a year. I didn't pull them all. Got all the receipts and PO's. There were also other itemized expenditures on the ECA report that I didn't pull.

37 restaurant and food purchases + $10,633
Clothing and gifts- $4640
party supplies- $167
coffee- $241
Gas-$36
Massages!!!!!!!!!-$280

***EDUCATIONAL MATERIALS- Two purchases $1068 and $60!!***

(Indigo Landing and Mike's totaled another $700.)


I am too tired to post all these right now. Maybe later. This is very, very typical. Multiply times about 40 or more. Some schools were plowing through 2-3 times this. Easily.

Meanwhile the PTSA was out getting donations for the silent raffle, holding bake sales, etc. in order to raise money for teacher supplies. These were the same people who paid for the parking passes, etc.

Lovely.

^^I think it is supposed to be the other way around.
Here's a novel suggestion. Do what they just did out in Denver. All the staff (teachers, principals, counselors, etc.) call in sick one day to protest. We can watch the cameras rolling on staff who are upset that they can't go to Morton's for dinner, go golfing, get massages, aren't getting BBQ for lunch, aren't getting beach bag and beach towel sets, all paid for by the citizens, any more. We can also watch cameras rolling on citizens who are totally floored by all this. I think that would be very effective.

good point Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill N makes good points. Think the public should
> know that more than parking fees go into the
> accounts. I think a portion of monopole fees,
> picture commissions and some vending machine
> profits go into it as well, but Fact Checker
> probably knows that and can repeat it for those
> late to the thread. Parents should also know that
> PTSAs in elementary schools have much more funding
> to direct to teacher appreciation and to classroom
> amenities. PTSA embership goes down dramatically
> for HS. A large HS could have just 400 members for
> an enrollment of over 2000. The superintendent and
> the school board must acknowledge the out of
> control spending that SOME administrative teams
> have been enjoying. Some of the schools listed
> routinely run out of copy paper! And do not have
> enough $ for supplemental texts. What bad modeling
> is being displayed by those enjoying luxury when
> teachers and other employees are not living the
> luxe life. And for the record, at many schools
> teachers contribute to a custodian lunch in
> recogniton of their hard work. We do take care of
> one another.



The custodians were taken care of with public dollars at West Potomac.
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there seems to be a missing receipt with the custodian dinner at Applebee's, but I can see basically what went on. that must have been quite an evening for the custodians. a table for 14 at 8pm. they are probably still talking about it, god bless 'em. nice break from cleaning the toilets. the ihop tip was really cheap. $6 on a $71 ticket?

the facts-custodians Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good point Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bill N makes good points. Think the public
> should
> > know that more than parking fees go into the
> > accounts. I think a portion of monopole fees,
> > picture commissions and some vending machine
> > profits go into it as well, but Fact Checker
> > probably knows that and can repeat it for those
> > late to the thread. Parents should also know
> that
> > PTSAs in elementary schools have much more
> funding
> > to direct to teacher appreciation and to
> classroom
> > amenities. PTSA embership goes down
> dramatically
> > for HS. A large HS could have just 400 members
> for
> > an enrollment of over 2000. The superintendent
> and
> > the school board must acknowledge the out of
> > control spending that SOME administrative teams
> > have been enjoying. Some of the schools listed
> > routinely run out of copy paper! And do not
> have
> > enough $ for supplemental texts. What bad
> modeling
> > is being displayed by those enjoying luxury
> when
> > teachers and other employees are not living the
> > luxe life. And for the record, at many schools
> > teachers contribute to a custodian lunch in
> > recogniton of their hard work. We do take care
> of
> > one another.
>
>
>
> The custodians were taken care of with public
> dollars at West Potomac.


So, do you have a problem with ECA funds taking a grossly underpaid custodial staff to a freaking meal at IHOP?!?! FOIA this - You, The Facts, are a self-righteous douche.

In my 7 years at the same FCPS school, the custodians have been absolutely amazing. There is usually turnover of 1-3 of them each year and each that comes in new seems to raise the bar even higher. I can't get over how spotless our school looks. Little things like shoe scuff marks throughout the entire school cleaned TWICE DAILY with a tennis ball on a broom handle. These people are indispensable and underpaid. I've also never seen a group of people so appreciate of a meal if available. Leftover pizza from student parties gets taken home by them to feed family members as if they've been given a holy relic to share.

Back off, Barb. Your crusade has a lot of merit, but if you look to eliminate a gray area like this one, I can't extend you an iota of respect.

I think it's the $600 administrator hotel rooms and high end restaurant dinners that are the most egregious things on here . . . not some crumbs for the underpaid janitors. We used to take up a collection at one of the schools where I taught so that the custodians could have a holiday bonus. They are appreciated by the staff.

Fact checker just lost all my respect for her "barb" thrown at custodians and the paltry meal they were given at an iHOP. Who gives a rats ass if "public dollars" buy these underpaid workers a meal. NO ONE except you! Are you aware of the god awful disgusting mess kids leave the restrooms on a daily basis that custodians have to clean up? Have you seen older women called into shovel snow - sometimes without warm coats and gloves? Have you witnessed them using toxic substances to scrape gum off floors? Have you noted how the number of custodians has been cut to pay for other more "showcase" programs? FCPS can't operate without custodians and I for one support them getting raises in addition to an occasional treat and I don't care what fund covers the expense. Stick with your campaign to uncover excessive administrator perks and lay off the custodians, (and the teachers as well for that matter!)

Actually I am a huge fan of the custodians, but you people don't want me to make any comments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was going to say exactly everything you people all said in the above posts. But, then you would have said I was playing favorites and making comments and gone on and on about that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It actually breaks my heart that the custodians probably have to be included in the new restrictions. I love those people. They hold the whole place together and cleaning those bathrooms and mopping up the puke is just horrible work. Somebody brought up the teachers buying lunch for the custodians, and I was merely pointing out that somebody else took care of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What right do you have to jump to conclusions?????????????????? You need to validate BEFORE you start slinging mud at the messenger.

BTW, other schools bought them lunch, also, out of public funds. They had it brought in.

If you notice in an earlier post, I commented on how bringing in lunch for the custodian staff that came in on days when there wasn't any power was probably the most appropriate thing I saw in any of the ECA reports. THAT is an educational/operational emergency and it is actually covered in the 5810 as an unusual circumstance. Coasters, cookies,$600 hotel rooms, dinners at George's at the Cove and Morton's AREN'T educational emergencies. Contingency=unexpected, etc. I also saw that a new refrigerator was bought for them at one school. They need it. They are working the hours where the cafeteria was closed, probably pack their lunch and dinner more than most, and are working up a sweat and need cold drinks readily available. If there are 14 of them working pm's they can use a whole refrigerator just for themselves.

You people owe me an apology. But, then again, people can say anything they want here.

I can top the cold pizza. I bring in fresh venison (I know a hunter) for MY helpers at work. Because I know they are paid crap and deserve it and watch my rear end.

Hey teachers-have any of your principals vowed to get you the supplies you need now that the boondoggles and massages have supposedly had the plug pulled on them? Start asking!!!!!! I would be making a long wish list. There is no excuse for running out of copy paper, etc. now.

Annandale has the bus drivers covered. Page 33. Red, Hot, and Blue. I am just pointing out that there are a lot of people to be taken care of.
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Typical move by the facts. Bash any sort of spending on teachers and now custodians, get criticized for it, and then back peddle like crazy saying how much you love those people. Oh, and I see now that you are worried that we might be coddling our overpaid bus drivers. Apologize to you? I don't think so.

^^^^^^^I haven't done anything. No back peddling, etc. I just want to know why some of these schools are spending $25,000 on restaurants yet say they are broke. I didn't write the state laws, the school regulations, or set school policy. I just am asking why it all isn't being followed. I do find it amazing that many "staff members" seem to have a problem with that. That is part of their job. Not too many citizens I talk to do. Wonder why.

Hey teachers-have any of your principals vowed to get you the supplies you need?

No... I've heard some say that it will be harder for them to do some of the appreciation type things for the teachers... but not a word about spending money on supplies. Funny, restaurants and retreats did not come up.

Then again, to be clear, I have been the recipient of exactly ZERO of the things people on here are assuming all the teachers are getting. Not complaining -- but not exactly living the high life on the taxpayers dime like you are making it sound.

^^^OK, if they aren't going to be able to do coasters and beach towels and stuff, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH THE MONEY? This should free up funds for education things. This is an educational account. Nothing in this account's name said party, spa, hotel, gift, restaurant account. According to the name, it is intended for unexpected educational needs.

Nobody NEEDS to go to Morton's or go golfing or get a massage or stay at the Westin because of an unexpected educational need.

If the teachers at the schools I pulled weren't getting scrambled eggs, gift sets, etc., then what the heck was going on? I think you are just at the wrong school.

I am going to have to do this all over again next year......

well, I think one of the flaws in how you are doing this is that you can't see what the occasions were for the expenditures or how many staff members were benefiting from it. I'm not making a judgement on if they are justified or unjustified... I'm just saying that food brought it for $xxx could be going to just a particular subcommittee of employees. And another occasion could be for a totally different sub group of employees.

When you list them all out from throughout the year, it makes it look like all the staff are enjoying these things every two weeks -- when in reality, it's possible/likely that many teachers in a building are not involved in whatever those occasions were and receive none of it. Again, not whining about not getting things, but the idiots on here interpret all this as teachers are living it up and get ice cream and pasta dinners every week.

I've never been offered a meal on back to school night. It varies from school to school and even within a building as to who is benefiting from these things.

I know our account has been used to buy computers and tech equipment. I'm sure other things were purchased like you've found from other schools as well though.

^^Actually, I have a very good idea of who was getting a lot of this stuff. Some was for very large groups, some for small, select groups. Many of the entries were very, very specific. It is very obvious some of the finance techs have been very busy with receipts for this kind of stuff, as well as the people who order, set up, etc. There was a virtual parade of vehicles at some of these schools. I could pull several thousand more receipts for more specific details...they are probably busy trying to implement some new procedures. I saw enough to get a good idea what has been going on.

There has probably been a huge variation. But, the excessive schools were so excessive....and there were a lot of them. I have several who still can't justify some very fancy, expensive dinners. They haven't even come up with receipts. Many are illegible, some have not even been produced and they are way over the time limit.

I think some schools have been flush with cash. Some were struggling, yet still managed to find the money for admins and things. Some very mixed up priorities. That has been made very obvious.

It's clear to you...

To the average person on this thread the perception is that all teachers are getting showered with luxuries on a weekly basis. That perception is partly fueled by the commentary that comes along with the 'facts'. I'm just saying that I'm not seeing it in my building.

I really don't think people are looking at the teachers being the problem. Nobody I have talked to about this thinks that way. I think perhaps expectations have gotten over-inflated at many of these schools. When you think you are due a massage, a buffet breakfast or lunch, a present, etc., at county expense, you are very confused. You probably aren't "due" any of this, and probably never were entitled to it in the first place.

The "teachers" need to look beyond what they were personally getting and somehow grasp the big picture and not look at it as bashing them or anybody else.

I think we all understand how ridiculous the hotels were. I haven't heard from anybody trying to justify that. The problems seem to be with the presents/clothing and meals.

********When somebody uses the county credit card to purchase a meal that there is no regulation specifying that they are entitled to, and maybe a regulation or two prohibiting it, sometimes at a very, very expensive restaurant, and they can't produce an itemized receipt or a receipt of ANY kind, and there isn't any record of who was at said meal, and the finance tech doesn't pursue this, or the records are illegible, and maybe the principal is the purchaser and/or doesn't care, you have a very, very, VERY big problem. Expecting somebody to do their job is not bashing. Any business/legal people out there?

Hello, Gatehouse and DCCO!!!!!!!!!

I know zero teachers who feel that they are entitled to those things. That perception is being inflated by comments like yours when you say

"When you think you are due a massage, a buffet breakfast or lunch, a present, etc., at county expense, you are very confused"

and

"the "teachers" need to look beyond what they were personally getting"

I am getting the opposite impression and so are a lot of other people. Obviously you don't know who is posting here, but I have also talked with several staff. And any Administrator who waltzes into a fine restaurant and plops down the county card, or writes a check out of county funds so they can go golfing or get a massage, obviously thinks they are totally entitled to this kind of stuff. The fact that they have to be told this is inappropriate is utterly ridiculous.

Yes, but you just said teachers feel that way, and then in the next post used an administrator as an example. Two different things

I'm not saying administrators don't feel entitled. I'm saying teachers don't feel entitled. Either way, all of this paints everyone with the same brush and it leads to confusion about what's really going on

Some simple yes or no questions for the facts (no commentary necessary)

1) Should a principal be able to buy an $8/person lunch for teachers during their teacher work week in August? Size of the school does not matter, yes or no?

2) Should a principal be able to pay for some pizza, or BBQ, or subs for their custodians? Yes or no?

3) How about a $5/person breakfast for the entire staff at a high school, just as a thank you surprise? Yes or no?

4) Is the administrative staff at a school entitled to any sort of thank you dinner from the principal (say $30/person once a year) as a thank you for hard work, etc? Yes or no?

the questions go way beyond what is being asked above

the teachers are not really involved in any of this as they have no power over spending the money

the principals have power to spend the money and should spend it carefully and on school related items if that is what the funds are supposed to be for

the biggest culpable parties in all of this are the people who are supposed to be overseeing these funds (the Gatehouse crew) and the School Board. they are the ones who are supposed to set the rules for how this money is spent and monitor its use

i haven't even mentioned how the money is collected and how it was decided that a certain amount would be skimmed from the parking fees (for starters) and the inequity of that process from school to school (but the SB and Gatehouse are responsible for that process as well).

Pop Quiz for the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some simple yes or no questions for the facts (no
> commentary necessary)
>
> 1) Should a principal be able to buy an $8/person
> lunch for teachers during their teacher work week
> in August? Size of the school does not matter, yes
> or no?
>
> 2) Should a principal be able to pay for some
> pizza, or BBQ, or subs for their custodians? Yes
> or no?
>
> 3) How about a $5/person breakfast for the entire
> staff at a high school, just as a thank you
> surprise? Yes or no?
>
> 4) Is the administrative staff at a school
> entitled to any sort of thank you dinner from the
> principal (say $30/person once a year) as a thank
> you for hard work, etc? Yes or no?


YOU read the handbook and figure it out. I have posted it twice.

not the facts/focus is larger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the questions go way beyond what is being asked
> above
>
> the teachers are not really involved in any of
> this as they have no power over spending the
> money
>
> the principals have power to spend the money and
> should spend it carefully and on school related
> items if that is what the funds are supposed to be
> for
>
> the biggest culpable parties in all of this are
> the people who are supposed to be overseeing these
> funds (the Gatehouse crew) and the School Board.
> they are the ones who are supposed to set the
> rules for how this money is spent and monitor its
> use
>
> i haven't even mentioned how the money is
> collected and how it was decided that a certain
> amount would be skimmed from the parking fees (for
> starters) and the inequity of that process from
> school to school (but the SB and Gatehouse are
> responsible for that process as well).


THANK YOU for the first sensible thing I have seen in a long, long time. I want to know how this could have gone on for years and years. Didn't ANYBODY look at some of the spending patterns and question them? WHY NOT? I posted a usage audit from a year or two ago. It pointed out a lot of problems. I raised the roof on this a year and a half ago. Didn't ANY summer auditor question why there weren't receipts on some of this stuff? The records got looked at every summer. Maybe their job wasn't to match up spending practices with school regulations, but receipts are basic essential items. I have found absence of receipts in multiple situations and I have barely skimmed the surface. There are thousands more entries that could be evaluated.

I don't know how it was decided what would fund the Slush Fund. The newspaper article that started this thread pointed out the inequities. I don't know how you determine how to allocate these types of funds. Some of the schools with lesser amounts of parking receipts also get more money for their schools from other sources.

Thank you for pointing out again that the teachers have no real power over this situation. I feel for them as it will be an adjustment and some might feel slighted after years and years of gifts, flowers, and catered meals paid for by the citizens. They were set up for a crushing blow. I already told them they need to be drawing up some Wish Lists for teaching materials needs. Seriously.

Somebody needs to make a decision on the Administrators' fancy for expensive restaurant meals and golf and do it now. WHY are the "dues" for the Associations coming out of public funds? I am still awaiting the organizational documents. I am still trying to figure out exactly what these groups are. It sounds like some of what they are doing falls under work-related activities, which are covered to a small extent under the local travel regulation (unless their contracts read otherwise). Some of what they are doing falls under personal expenses (golf, the fancy dinners, the hotel retreat). If they are an FCPS certified association, somebody has to sign the statement saying the group will not plan to overthrow government or interrupt government services(!), as well as some other stuff. This certification also allows payroll deduction for dues, use of school facilities for meetings (less expensive than using a restaurant), and use of leave for responsibilities associated with their role in the group, etc. The issue of the $500 plus dues and added expenses of the state/national professional association also need to be looked at. These look like individual memberships, which according to the regulations are supposed to be paid for by the individuals. Is there something in their contracts mandating these to paid out of public funds? I tallied up that these two groups could conceivably cost $2000 per school.

Along with the above associations, there are also other memberships and associated expenses and some payments that need to be considered-

for example (this is not inclusive)

Centreville-VASSP 2013 summer conference $415, Mileage to VASSP $248.03, Principals conference at the The Homestead $612.72, gas for HSPA retreat $71.30
Lee-ASCD, Phi Delta Kappa
South Lakes-Associated School Librarians of Fairfax County (don't know what this was about)
Finance Tech dues-multiple schools
Edison-Cluster V Sunshine Fund-$60 (Sunshine Funds are supposed to be privately funded, right?)
Herndon-PDK Membership $90, PDK dinner $99, Rotary Club of Herndon expenses-$214, $64, $128, $257, $202, $64, etc.(this was in less than a year)

Langley-Association for Supervision and Curr $54
I thought I remembered seeing a Chamber of Commerce payment somewhere but I don't have time to locate it.

Anyway, lots to look at.

Since Barb is afraid to answer 4 simple and straight forward questions, I will provide my thoughts. YES to all 4. My guess is that you deflected from the questions because you don't want to admit your answers would all be NO. I am basing this assumption on your repeated bashing of pretty much any spending on teachers and support staff. And btw, I think the money spent on expensive retreats, trips, overly expensive meals is disgusting, so please do not try to mix that problem with the teacher issue. They are not the same.

^ I don't understand what you mean by the "teacher issue". There is no teacher issue here. There is only an issue of how public funds earmarked for educational use are spent by principals. How someone thinks there is a "teacher issue", I don't understand. Barb cannot really put out the FOIA stuff just for the most expensive items. She has put it all out for discussion. Whether her answer is yes or no to your pop quiz is not relevant. It's not for her to decide on narrow questions. It is for the SB and the people at Gatehouse to make the ultimate decisions and give guidance on this stuff. By putting up your "pop quiz", you are trying to set policy on the use of these public funds. That is not what we do; it is what Gatehouse and the SB do.

^^^^^Whoever is putting out the pop quiz needs to read the directions. I am not making a ruling on anything, so quit acting like a horse's rear end. There are published limits in the Finance Handbook, although some of them are rather vague. If you don't understand them, call Gatehouse. They won't know if it will work until people start implementing and using this tool.

You know, administrators are always welcome to pay for their own expensive dinners and take their staff out and put down THEIR credit card instead of OURS. My personal suggestion is if people are tired of producing and keeping receipts and following some limits then quit doing all this stuff. People will survive and it would make things a lot easier.

Is "the facts" referring to herself in the third person?

Here is Barb in a bit truer form. She's angrier on this other thread. She wears the anger well.

Re: FCPS vs Music Booster Clubs controversy
Posted by: hello again ()
Date: October 03, 2014 08:32PM

"My recommendation to my old group is the next time you crap all over a bunch of parents and children, lie to them, play secret games with their financial transactions, refuse to release records, block access to financial information, put out fantasy reports, threaten a parent in more ways than one, act like verbally abusive psycho flaming pompous egotistical self-righteous assholes, and set up a school official to be disciplined, think again. You made some very, very, bad decisions and choices, and made a very, very, VERY poor choice of target, but a lot of good came out of getting all this straightened out. If you are going to do stupid things like this again. pick something besides public transactions and parents and children. That was beyond despicable.

Regards."

Ask the SB and Gatehouse people Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^ I don't understand what you mean by the "teacher
> issue". There is no teacher issue here. There is
> only an issue of how public funds earmarked for
> educational use are spent by principals. How
> someone thinks there is a "teacher issue", I don't
> understand. Barb cannot really put out the FOIA
> stuff just for the most expensive items. She has
> put it all out for discussion. Whether her answer
> is yes or no to your pop quiz is not relevant.
> It's not for her to decide on narrow questions.
> It is for the SB and the people at Gatehouse to
> make the ultimate decisions and give guidance on
> this stuff. By putting up your "pop quiz", you
> are trying to set policy on the use of these
> public funds. That is not what we do; it is what
> Gatehouse and the SB do.


You're nuts. The teacher issue is The Facts lady has continually bashed administrators for spending money on teachers. Then she turns around and says how much she loves them. She won't answer those quiz questions because it would prevent her from playing both sides. Answering No shows her disdain for giving the teachers anything above a paycheck, and answering Yes contradicts all of her posts criticizing such spending.

The practices in question here involve administrators spending money on themselves and their staff in ways that don't seem to comply with school regulations and common standards of ethics and acceptable business practice (as in, no receipts, illegible receipts, inappropriate services).

I am not getting involved in the Pop Quiz.

Have a nice weekend.

"The teacher issue is The Facts lady has continually bashed administrators for spending money on teachers."


Exactly. She is bashing administrators, not teachers. The teachers have nothing to do with this. You are confusing support of teachers with using public money in incorrect ways. You can support teachers without buying them personal items. The teachers get a pay check. The teachers need items in their classrooms to support their jobs (and they all pay for a lot of that stuff themselves because they often hear "no" when they try to get the money---so they have basically given up on getting it). The public funds really ought to be spent on educating students because that is the basic function of schools (or have we forgotten that sort of important fact?). Sure, teachers will take a donut or whatever when it is offered to them, but they will still be upset about having to spend their own money on educational items (ask any teacher about this). And sure, the teachers will start to expect their donut because they will take whatever they can get in this atmosphere. If the administrators are relieving their guilt by buying the teachers a donut, it is not really working. We need to talk about what is REALLY needed and appreciated and what supports the job at hand. The questions you raise are trivial compared to what we really need to be discussing. Trust me. I'm a teacher.

Also, by asking the "yes" or "no" questions ("you must answer without comment"), you sound like someone who should be creating SOL tests. You want to paint us into a corner and then criticize us when we try to escape that corner in order to be better than the corner. Please, I hope you are not an administrator! We are trying to think through an issue and you want to make it all easy and "data friendly" and some kind of a black and white thing. News flash: it's not. None of it. It's all messy. But let's try to fix what we can and improve things. Okay?

Its pretty clear who facts is after--the people who get to make the decisions about rewarding themselves with expensive perks with no oversight, and in violation of laws on the books.

The gifts to the teachers and custodians look like attempts to cover up a pretty cynical misuse of public funds. Why don't the custodians get to go to Mortons? Why do they only rate Applebees?

Because they're the slaves? Is that the way the money is being thought of? As the property of the higher ups to do what they want--trade favors and rewards to secure their fiefdoms?

Frankly, screw the teachers who are on here bitching about not getting their panera or tshirt or whatever. This is a scandal

Geez. I hadn't thought that there were teachers on here complaining about not getting their tshirt or Panera. Holy crap. No wonder the kids aren't learning anything. The teachers are focused on shallow personal items that they get on their jobs? I thought they were there to teach the kids and that they enjoyed their jobs. Really? And they can be bought with a tshirt and Panera?

It looks like the Common Sense people are up, the crazy people are still in bed.

Teachers-spend a few minutes this weekend making up your Wish List for teaching materials. You march right down to the front office Monday morning and turn that in. (Keep a copy. If they say they don't have enough money for you to make a copy at school, which seems to be a very common problem, take a picture of it with your phone or make your own copy. It's really sad that we have money for golf but don't have money for the basics. )

I think the idea of sending the custodians to Morton's sounds like fun. Let's do a collection for that.....

Barb 1.0 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is Barb in a bit truer form. She's angrier on
> this other thread. She wears the anger well.
>
> Re: FCPS vs Music Booster Clubs controversy
> Posted by: hello again ()
> Date: October 03, 2014 08:32PM
>
> "My recommendation to my old group is the next
> time you crap all over a bunch of parents and
> children, lie to them, play secret games with
> their financial transactions, refuse to release
> records, block access to financial information,
> put out fantasy reports, threaten a parent in more
> ways than one, act like verbally abusive psycho
> flaming pompous egotistical self-righteous
> assholes, and set up a school official to be
> disciplined, think again. You made some very,
> very, bad decisions and choices, and made a very,
> very, VERY poor choice of target, but a lot of
> good came out of getting all this straightened
> out. If you are going to do stupid things like
> this again. pick something besides public
> transactions and parents and children. That was
> beyond despicable.
>
> Regards."



I know this thread. This IS a bunch of assholes. This is putting it mildly. Very mixed up group of people.

I think we all agree the money spent on retreats, etc. on admin are over the top. However, I have zero issue with admin spending money on shirts, or a lunch, etc for their teachers, custodians, and other support staff. Bigger schools will spend more money on this type of stuff than smaller ones obviously, and I have zero problem with that. OP seems to though.

If the fcps directive says the money is be spent on the students and if the money is largely raised by students, then why doesn't it get spent on the kids?

You people keep speaking your minds. That is what this is for.

I am leaving it up to Gatehouse to work out the numbers. The directions read "to foster student success", etc. If you look in the Finance Handbook there are now some limits on staff meals and treats. They can still do some very modest things for the staff. Clothing the staff is also not the school system's problem for the most part. They get lanyards. There are also gaping loopholes. I quite frankly think they need to quit worrying about "light refreshments". Period. Water is about all people need. And maybe coffee or tea. I don't even get those at my meetings and classes. They make granola bars for a reason. They are also getting worked up about "continuity" with meetings over the lunch hour and think they owe people a meal to keep things running. If you are in a long, long meeting, you are legally and physically in need of a break. Shut the meeting down, people can do what they want for lunch (either alone or together) and then restart the meeting. I do this all the time with classes and conferences. The travel regulation specifically states that the school system isn't responsible for meals due to being at a local deal anyway, unless they are required to pay for a meal as part of the event. So, why worry about it? It isn't the school system's problem. That is what Chipotle, etc. is for. Go to Chick-fil-A. I could care less. There is a cafeteria in every school and at Gatehouse. Pick up trays there if you want. No, it isn't Bazin's. My heart bleeds.

It is going to be very hard for the higher level people to give up on the mindset that every meeting (either for them or somebody else) is a luncheon, dinner, or in need of snacks that WE have to pay for. Just pull the plug. Right now. The Feds don't worry about this stuff for the most part. They just say NO. The private sector doesn't necessarily get all worked up about it, either. Maybe if you work for Google. This isn't Google. It is time to quit eating their way through the day and start paying attention to the budget problems and educational needs. I am still waiting on details on the HS/MSPA situation-the organizational documents, the Morton's dinner, etc. They can either suffer with mileage or $11.50 or pay their way on their own. PB and J. As a taxpayer I feel no need to pay for $100 dinners at Morton's or really any type of meal for these meetings/social events. They are being paid six figures and if they want to go to a nice restaurant they can take their $11.50 and apply it or pay for the whole thing themselves. There's 25 at the high school level alone. I am seeing numerous meetings in the records.

I felt that the bulk of the account should be used on educational things for the children. But, that's me. I am entitled to my opinion. And I just am not seeing that. This account has evolved into a Party and Fine Dining account, as I told my School Board rep. As I have said before, I have a really hard time hearing about cutting services for the children, no money for copy paper and supplies for the teachers, etc., when the front office is spending a huge amount of time and money planning snacks/meals/golf etc. mostly for the staff, and lot of it for the Front Office.

The money is very tight right now and it is time to be tough about this. I was looking at about half a million dollars of complete garbage in these accounts, probably more. There is probably more going on with the other accounts. I read in the audit they were using appropriated funds for some of this stuff, and the new Guidelines gives them the permission to do so. So, our tax dollars will also be going for this stuff. Is that what you expect as a taxpayer?

I am still awaiting some information from Oakton, Herndon, Robinson, West Springfield, Westfield. I had also asked for some itemized receipts from the Annapolis boondoggle for Hayfield. Somehow I think I might not get some of these. That is SO not good. Keep looking. Oakton is WAY over the 12 days so I have asked for credit card statements, card assignment information, and travel documents since one place looks to be in California. The longer you stall the worse it is going to get. Just put it out there and get it over with. We paid for whatever went on, not you. Live and learn.

Since we are shining the spotlight on misappropriation of funds, lets look at sports boosters.

They are non profit organizations and are prohibited from self dealing...aka rewarding their own members....and yet they do.

Each year many sports boosters offer scholarships. The stipulation is that the student's parents must be sports boosters. So if a kid, thru no fault of their own, wants to apply, they aren't eligible.

Considering that the majority of money raised by sports boosters comes from concession and merchandise sales (public money), corporate sponsorships (intended for all athletes-not booster offspring), and sports booster passes, which are monies that should flow thru the school's activity account, but instead goes to boosters.

The facts is spot on about this--pull the plug immediately! The problem is not one or two mistakes, its about a whole mentality.

The people treating themselves to lunch and dinner at the local corporate/lobbyist watering holes clearly view themselves as corporate types--CEOs and the like.

But they're not corporate manager--they're head babysitters, regardless of how much money goes through a given institution. They are not accountable to any P/L metrics, Sales benchmark, retention quotas or any other kind of executive would be which would justify these kinds of incentives. And the fact that they spent this money with no oversight or accountability, even to their own rules demonstrates that.

If they're spending the time trying to re-envision their jobs as corporate governance, then what else aren't they doing? Maybe this explains the Zero Tolerance fiasco as well, and other problems. Pull the plug, send the money to the classrooms and send the corporate wannabes to the real competition.

Booster money took Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since we are shining the spotlight on
> misappropriation of funds, lets look at sports
> boosters.
>
> They are non profit organizations and are
> prohibited from self dealing...aka rewarding their
> own members....and yet they do.
>
> Each year many sports boosters offer scholarships.
> The stipulation is that the student's parents must
> be sports boosters. So if a kid, thru no fault of
> their own, wants to apply, they aren't eligible.
>
> Considering that the majority of money raised by
> sports boosters comes from concession and
> merchandise sales (public money), corporate
> sponsorships (intended for all athletes-not
> booster offspring), and sports booster passes,
> which are monies that should flow thru the
> school's activity account, but instead goes to
> boosters.

I am very familiar with Booster issues, but only from the Music side. I had numerous people ask about the sports Boosters. You people are going to have to fight your own battles. The music Boosters were in a different situation in that the music programs are CLASSES, which put them squarely under the Code of Virginia and the VAC (state educational laws). I don't know how it works with sports, since they are not classes. I am not familiar with the Virginia High School League and how it relates to the school system. Who is technically the sponsor of the sports games?

The school system is the sponsor of all music program trips and mandatory activities for the classes. They own all the equipment, instruments, and uniforms. So, anything associated with all this is public record and public funds. It got to the point where the Boosters thought these were THEIR programs, THEIR equipment, etc. No no no. A lot of school personnel also forgot these were school-sponsored things and what that meant. They tried to walk away from their responsibilities many, many times. I had to get very, very ugly to fix this situation and personally took it to the School Board. I drove a lot of people totally bonkers but that is their own fault.

Some of the music Booster groups were also doing college scholarships. Not only does that provide personal benefit, but it also moved the money out of the school program, which seemed to be in frank violation of many of their organizational documents, which declared that the purpose of the organization was to support the school music program. So, how does sending money to a college help the music program? I pointed this out to the Comptroller's office, but this is really a Booster issue. It is also an issue for the IRS.

There is a whole thread on music Booster groups. We had very serious issues with public records. I tried to get some and my Booster group refused to show them to me. I FOIA'd the school system and they didn't think they were their responsibility. WRONG. I kept telling them that it was their responsibility to produce public records. I finally got an informal opinion from the FOIA Council down in Richmond that the records created by music Boosters for school-sponsored activities were public records even though they were held by Boosters (on their computers, etc.), and thus the school system was still responsible for producing all those records under FOIA. An opinion on your situation can be easily obtained for free from The Council. You can either have it published on their website, or obtain an unpublished opinion. I went with unpublished as there were some issues that were not presented quite correctly, and while it would not have affected the final decision, I didn't want it out there like that. I FOIA-d everything under the sun (I started before I received this opinion because I found a similar published opinion that pointed out that if records are required then the public agency who allowed these records to be produced by an outside party is responsible for producing them, even if they are held by the outside party-no kidding) and got mountains of records and basically drove the school system insane, but again that is their own fault. The school system is totally aware of this records situation. They are and were the custodian of a Hell of a lot of public records held by music Boosters, THEY DON'T HAVE THEM, probably never will, got some, and that was a huge reason to move the records, money, and processes into a school computer system and bank account, etc.

I also had a hard time finding attorneys who were familiar with FOIA. The Virginia Coalition for Open Government might be able to link you up with an attorney well-versed in FOIA. Their counsel is out of Vienna. The Boosters also have records of their own, which do NOT fall under FOIA. The issue of sponsorship was the critical piece of the puzzle. I talked with a lot of very confused attorneys, trust me.

The merchandise sales are probably not public money. If the Boosters are buying the merchandise and selling it to the public as a fundraiser, then that is probably Booster records, NOT public records. One issue we ran into was the use of students in fundraisers. We had a heated debate about whether the use of students to fundraise mandates that the money be run through a school activity fund. There are two different regulations regarding this, and they conflict. There are still a lot of grey areas. The concessions might not be public record, either.

Good luck. I have spent the last three years working on this. It takes a very long time for things to change. They had initially talked about the sports programs falling under the new policies. Maybe they decided to focus on the music Boosters first since I was such a pest. These groups are fraught with internal politics, overzealous but well-meaning parents, some incredibly hardworking people, some really wonderful people, some real control freaks, and some real jerks. I dealt with them all. Gatehouse is incredibly slow, but when you finally can get them to move, they do fairly nice work. And you really have to follow up on things to make sure things in the trenches actually get done. That is where FOIA comes in.

sick of paying for it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The facts is spot on about this--pull the plug
> immediately! The problem is not one or two
> mistakes, its about a whole mentality.
>
> The people treating themselves to lunch and dinner
> at the local corporate/lobbyist watering holes
> clearly view themselves as corporate types--CEOs
> and the like.
>
> But they're not corporate manager--they're head
> babysitters, regardless of how much money goes
> through a given institution. They are not
> accountable to any P/L metrics, Sales benchmark,
> retention quotas or any other kind of executive
> would be which would justify these kinds of
> incentives. And the fact that they spent this
> money with no oversight or accountability, even to
> their own rules demonstrates that.
>
> If they're spending the time trying to re-envision
> their jobs as corporate governance, then what else
> aren't they doing? Maybe this explains the Zero
> Tolerance fiasco as well, and other problems. Pull
> the plug, send the money to the classrooms and
> send the corporate wannabes to the real
> competition.


I think a lot of what you are saying is very applicable. However, I have a real problem calling principals head babysitters, and people calling teachers glorified babysitters. I put two children through this school system and I am forever indebted that they helped me produce two children who excelled in college and the workforce. I could not have done it without them. They really fell on their faces with some of the money issues, though.

I agree that this fund was abused over the years. They were allowed to do whatever they felt was appropriate, and if golf and dinners at fancy restaurants sounded appropriate to them, well then, lucky for them. There wasn't any oversight, which was a big problem. This school system has a huge amount of money, and watching the little details got missed. Well, I found some of them.

The government is run very differently than a private corporation. When you are working with public money, you have a responsibility to the public. You are also governed by regulations and laws that are supposed to influence what you do with it. Supposedly. You also stand the chance that your slush fund is going to be posted on the Internet for the public to see and you are going to have some explaining to do.

"This school system has a huge amount of money, and watching the little details got missed. Well, I found some of them."

This. This amount of money and vastness has created a situation which some people have taken advantage of (or, if you prefer, rationalized to their advantage). There has to be a way to stop this from becoming ingrained in the culture of the FCPS organization. Other parts of the FCPS culture do not contribute to the core mission (educating students) either. Hopefully the SB and/or Garza can ferret out those rotting spots before they totally infect the core.

In this debate let's not glorify the government and their spending. There are probably more kickbacks, payoffs and more corruption in defense contracting then ever could be imagined. Occasionally the revolving door between the Pentagon and the beltway bandits hits a media snag, but not often enough!

^Totally agree. However, some of the stuff that has been noted here is so plainly obvious. I know all about the Beltway bandits.

Hey, there is a new School Activity Funds management regulation. Came out last week.

If the VHSL receipts are run through a school account, those are funds held for others. You should have no trouble getting those.

ECA-These funds should not be used to benefit individual school employees. Funds allocated for team building and staff appreciation events should be reasonable. (There was more in the Handbook.)

Gifts- using school activity funds to provide gifts to students, staff, and faculty members is prohibited.

All subject to interpretation, of course.
Attachments:

Booster money took Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since we are shining the spotlight on
> misappropriation of funds, lets look at sports
> boosters.
>
> They are non profit organizations and are
> prohibited from self dealing...aka rewarding their
> own members....and yet they do.
>
> Each year many sports boosters offer scholarships.
> The stipulation is that the student's parents must
> be sports boosters. So if a kid, thru no fault of
> their own, wants to apply, they aren't eligible.
>
> Considering that the majority of money raised by
> sports boosters comes from concession and
> merchandise sales (public money), corporate
> sponsorships (intended for all athletes-not
> booster offspring), and sports booster passes,
> which are monies that should flow thru the
> school's activity account, but instead goes to
> boosters.

I think you are looking at two different things here. I did some brief research and it looks like gate receipts are run through a school account and then passed on to the VHSL, NOT Boosters. So you should be able to get those numbers. The money once it is passed to the VHSL is not required to be recorded in the school activity funds (unlike the music program trips, which were). So, once the money leaves the school system, the records are VHSL. They have to put out a public tax return every year, which doesn't show major details. Now, a member of a non-profit supposedly should be able to get records from the non-profit. The schools are "members" of the non-profit VHSL, right? The executive board consists of principals, Superintendents, somebody from the DOE, and some others. They can see everything. They are acting in their title of school officials. And, this money is generated by using students and school property. However, VHSL looks to be the sponsor.

So what exactly is the FOIA situation with something like this? Who dreamt this up?

More on the Booster situation next.

This is off-topic, but an interesting situation.....

Regarding the sports Boosters, look at the 5810 above, page 9. This is new. C.2. Revenue from cooperative activities, PTA, and booster clubs, involving property or students, must be recorded in the school activity funds. 3. Revenue from VHSL-sponsored activities must be accounted in the VHSL financial records only. (Except to the extent that they are temporarily parked in a school account. )

So, if the Boosters are using the students to help produce revenue, it looks like this should be accounted for in the school activity funds, even though it is for a student participating in a VHSL activity. Say, if they are going door to door soliciting funds for uniforms and the Boosters are running the fundraiser, that should be run through the school accounts. Or, if they use students to run a booth selling stuff.

Well I have to get some stuff done. Have fun scratching your heads on this stuff. I am staying out of this.

I agree that gate receipts for sporting events go thru the school accounts. There is a 50/50 split between home and away teams for football.

The auditing for this collection sucks btw. They spot checked two games last year. Bill Curran runs athletics and his wife is an auditor just to show how legit it was.

The larger schools collects tons of cash thru the sports booster passes which lets you in to all he games. A family pass goes for about 250 bucks, so a school like Westfield might sell say 100 or more family passes, or 25k. This money stays with the boosters,it does not go thru school account. Many of these booters then offer scholarships to their members kids.

So basically you have school funds going to private scholarships. That's. Wrong.

I dusted off my tired brain and remembered that I had consulted the FOIA Council on non-profits when the whole music Booster fiasco started out. I am enclosing excerpts from that response. If the gate receipts are being sent to VHSL (a non-profit run by public school personnel, etc. funded by money generated from activities that students are in, which would most probably make these non-appropriated public funds), the opinion of the Virginia FOIA gurus is generally if two-thirds of the organization's total budget comes from public funds, it would be considered "principally" supported by public funds, and so subject to FOIA. The VHSL tax return form 990 is easily located on the Foundation Center website. From first glance, it looks like they probably meet the 2/3.

Read the attachment.

If any money is kept at the school level, it is certainly subject to FOIA.

There are supposed to be serially numbered tickets at all athletic and other paid events. Yes, they are subject to surprise audit. There are audit reports on the School Board website under School Board auditor. The number of tickets are used to calculate what the gate receipts should be to prevent pilfering. You have the right to FOIA the logs, then FOIA the accounting data showing the deposits and any transfers to the VHSL.

Anybody want to FOIA VHSL? I have done enough.

That is your Civics lesson for the day.
Attachments:

Booster self dealing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that gate receipts for sporting events go
> thru the school accounts. There is a 50/50 split
> between home and away teams for football.
>
> The auditing for this collection sucks btw. They
> spot checked two games last year. Bill Curran runs
> athletics and his wife is an auditor just to show
> how legit it was.
>
> The larger schools collects tons of cash thru the
> sports booster passes which lets you in to all he
> games. A family pass goes for about 250 bucks, so
> a school like Westfield might sell say 100 or more
> family passes, or 25k. This money stays with the
> boosters,it does not go thru school account. Many
> of these booters then offer scholarships to their
> members kids.
>
> So basically you have school funds going to
> private scholarships. That's. Wrong.

I am not that familiar with sports, but this might help.

One thing we straightened out in the course of our three year music program saga was that admission fees to curricular concerts could not be charged. Some Booster clubs were charging admission to these concerts and keeping the money. I objected strenuously.

It was also ascertained that any admission fees to any other student productions had to run through the school system, NOT a Booster organization.

I think you could easily take this sports issue up with the School Board Auditor. The contact information is on the FCPS website under School Board and then Auditor. You could send a copy to your School Board member. It would seem to make sense that the passes should be purchased from the school system, who then passes the money to the VHSL as per their agreement. Why don't you start a new thread and keep us posted? What portion of the gate receipts are retained by the school system instead of sending to the VHSL?

The issue of scholarships is still a big one, but is probably best determined by the IRS.

Another thing-are Boosters buying the passes from the school system, and then marking them up when they sell them to you and keeping the profit? The cost of the passes is basically gate receipts. They don't have a right to those.

I don't know anything about the sports programs. Good luck.

I do know that things had been done they way they had been doing them for a very, very long time with the music programs, and it wasn't until I pitched a holy fit and got completely obnoxious that anything got cleaned up. Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't make it correct. This was a total mess.

Why does the rest of the state tend to not enforce these laws? Are they unaware?

rest of the state Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why does the rest of the state tend to not enforce
> these laws? Are they unaware?

I would say most Americans have never asked to see a public record. I think most don't realize how easy it is.

The music Booster situation I think happened because some people just made really bad decisions, maybe at a time when people were more trusting. When you are exhausted and busy, and group of volunteers says they can make your program into something big and are willing to do the work, you conveniently forget about the state laws. I heard a lot of "everybody else does it this way" as an excuse to perpetuate this situation. And I SAW everybody doing it this way. I just refused to give up my rights as a citizen to access public records on financial transactions that I had a direct interest in, and it took off from there. I wasn't taking any crap off of anybody. Most people would have given up. I hardly ever give up on anything. I am too stubborn. It was like pulling teeth to get that straightened out.

I think maybe educators don't have a lot of extensive training in public records and finances and ethics. Why else would they think a $30 breakfast, a $180 local hotel room, no itemized receipts, expensive local restaurants, etc. are appropriate? There were so many doing this, I think it is deeply imbedded in their culture. I simply could not grasp this. Maybe it is the area we live in. Maybe it is just pure greed on their part. Maybe they should have stayed in the classroom. I don't know. The School Board was rocking it up in MoCo, also.

I found a lot of people in this school system hadn't glanced at the school regulations. They were doing just whatever. The general public usually doesn't read them. I read them. I rammed them down their throats and wouldn't shut up. Their licenses and livelihood depend on them following them. We pay them to write them and they SHOULD follow them and I wasn't putting up with any arrogance. I pay their salaries, so FIX IT.

I noticed a lot of the other school systems either don't post their regulations online or they were very sketchy.

I think it is a combination of things.

the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I think maybe educators don't have a lot of
> extensive training in public records and finances
> and ethics.


Teachers shouldn't be allowed in the classroom until they pass an exam on the thousands of existing FCPS regulations.

I am surprised, given all your dealings with FCPS that you don't understand how it works.

No teacher would dare speak out and say anything bad about the man. Nor would they dare folia anything sketchy.

That would be career ending.

Why do you think parent coalitions fix everything.

Fair grade, sleep, zero Tolerance, cots, full day Mondays.

All parent led. Fcps never, repeats never, fixes anything.

bar exam for teachers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the facts Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I think maybe educators don't have a lot of
> > extensive training in public records and
> finances
> > and ethics.
>
>
> Teachers shouldn't be allowed in the classroom
> until they pass an exam on the thousands of
> existing FCPS regulations.


Administrators are educators. And teachers as well as administrators are required to follow the school regulations. It is part of your licensing requirements and your responsibilities as an employee. So, you ALL need to figure it out. Most of these are common sense. Obviously admins are responsible for overseeing all of this. They should have known better on a lot of this. Who in their right mind would think some of this was appropriate? Massages? Nats tickets? Parking tickets for faculty? Gourmet dinners? Come on.

Booster self dealing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that gate receipts for sporting events go
> thru the school accounts. There is a 50/50 split
> between home and away teams for football.
>
> The auditing for this collection sucks btw. They
> spot checked two games last year. Bill Curran runs
> athletics and his wife is an auditor just to show
> how legit it was.
>
> The larger schools collects tons of cash thru the
> sports booster passes which lets you in to all he
> games. A family pass goes for about 250 bucks, so
> a school like Westfield might sell say 100 or more
> family passes, or 25k. This money stays with the
> boosters,it does not go thru school account. Many
> of these booters then offer scholarships to their
> members kids.
>
> So basically you have school funds going to
> private scholarships. That's. Wrong.


I slept on this, looked at the pass information on a Booster website. This doesn't look any different to me than when some Booster groups were including admission to curricular concerts in their Booster dues. If non-Boosters paid at the door payments were going to the school front office. The Boosters I am sure kept all the dues that were paid to them. As I said, this was torpedoed. Any charges for admission to extracurricular concerts and things have to run through the school activity funds. That was cleared up last year. Supposedly.

It looks like Athletic Booster membership is optional for parents, so this is an optional thing to do, but that doesn't really seem to come into play here. It would make sense that admission money should go through the school system, and then you pay for membership in the Boosters if you want. They then help supplement the purchases. I assume you all are paying fees for your sport or activity, which go to the school system to fund certain things? Do you have uniform costs that are paid by each child? Who DOES fund the uniforms? Who SHOULD fund the uniforms? The coaches salaries are generally paid via the salary supplement (I can't remember right now about club sports). I know crew and some other club sports are managed differently.

The music situation got all messed up because the Boosters were independently drawing up these budgets and plans and determining how much each family should pay and sending them a bill. For a CLASS. Which is not in keeping with Virginia Educational Laws by any stretch of the imagination.

If the families are paying their admission fees to the Athletic Boosters, and NOTHING is going to the school accounts, then no money from these admission receipts is going to the VHSL to pay for whatever they pay for. I am getting the impression the schools keep some and some goes to the VHSL, probably to pay for officials, etc. that are used for teams across the state? So, the VHSL costs are shifted to other people who don't join Boosters.

Also, by doing this you are using public funds to fund a parent non-profit. And if they don't meet the two-thirds rule, then they are probably not subject to FOIA. Usage of public funds in this manner seems to constitute a gift/public financing to a parent Booster group, which is clearly prohibited in the 5810. They have made it very clear that these types of funds are public funds (in the opening paragraphs of the 5810). It looks like Boosters also have funds of their own (non-public funds) generated by fundraisers. Their college scholarship thing is downright strange, whether it be funded by public or private funds. That diverts money away from helping the school programs as well as providing a private benefit. We saw that with the Music Boosters, also.

I don't know enough about this. You are supposed to start with your principal. This issue sounds as complex as the Music Booster issue I grappled with for three years, which means it could then go on up to the Supers, the School Board auditor, the Financial people, and your School Board.

The bright side with this is that it is probably already with them because EVERYBODY is reading this thread. Good luck.

Page 76. Your professional licenses may be suspended for failure or refusal to follow school regulations. There are also sections on cancelation and revocation that bear reading.

So, it makes sense to read the school regulations.

Have a nice week and thank you for your hard work.
Attachments:

^^^The page reads 75 in the document, but 76 in the overlay page reader.

Booster money took Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since we are shining the spotlight on
> misappropriation of funds, lets look at sports
> boosters.
>
> They are non profit organizations and are
> prohibited from self dealing...aka rewarding their
> own members....and yet they do.
>
> Each year many sports boosters offer scholarships.
> The stipulation is that the student's parents must
> be sports boosters. So if a kid, thru no fault of
> their own, wants to apply, they aren't eligible.
>
> Considering that the majority of money raised by
> sports boosters comes from concession and
> merchandise sales (public money), corporate
> sponsorships (intended for all athletes-not
> booster offspring), and sports booster passes,
> which are monies that should flow thru the
> school's activity account, but instead goes to
> boosters.


I started a new thread for you..............

I don't know of any scholarships that athletics boosters are giving out at my son's school. I do know the VHSL collects the receipts from the conference/regional/state games, because the booster pass I optionally purchase only works for regular season home games. I'm pretty sure boosters raised money and took out loans to have turf put in...which seems like an appropriate use of athletic money. In my experience, the teams help raise the money for their uniforms. For one year, FCPS was charging $100/fee per sport and then that stopped.

the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bar exam for teachers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > the facts Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > I think maybe educators don't have a lot of
> > > extensive training in public records and
> > finances
> > > and ethics.
> >
> >
> > Teachers shouldn't be allowed in the classroom
> > until they pass an exam on the thousands of
> > existing FCPS regulations.
>
>
> Administrators are educators. And teachers as well
> as administrators are required to follow the
> school regulations. It is part of your licensing
> requirements and your responsibilities as an
> employee. So, you ALL need to figure it out. Most
> of these are common sense. Obviously admins are
> responsible for overseeing all of this. They
> should have known better on a lot of this. Who in
> their right mind would think some of this was
> appropriate? Massages? Nats tickets? Parking
> tickets for faculty? Gourmet dinners? Come on.

We need a stiffer process for becoming a licensed teacher. It really should be like passing the bar exam. Otherwise, how can we really know that all our teachers are versed in the regulations?

I honestly think common sense would do for most things, but obviously common sense is not all that common.

BS in sense Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I honestly think common sense would do for most
> things, but obviously common sense is not all that
> common.


Exactly what I said.

Vending and parking fees are chump change compared to the money a school can make off of "community use".

Keep in mind that community use actually runs a deficit each year but the schools still get to keep a piece of the profits...when actually there are no profits.

Our hs dsa is wheeling and dealing with outside groups in giving away field and gym usage. The coaches have a hard time getting gym time for green days because she will sell gym time six months in advance.

Unfortunately it is the wild west with fees. Outside for profit groups pay a ton, or are supposed to pay a ton, to use fcps facilities, but they don't.

Let's say a private individual wants to run a kids basketball camp at a school. They should pay this higher fee but they don't. The dsa will cut a deal and say, well let some of our kids attend your camp for free and we will give you a discount.

It is a mess.

^ I thought they had an accountability office in Gatehouse. What do those people do?

Biggest fraud of all Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vending and parking fees are chump change compared
> to the money a school can make off of "community
> use".
>
> Keep in mind that community use actually runs a
> deficit each year but the schools still get to
> keep a piece of the profits...when actually there
> are no profits.
>
> Our hs dsa is wheeling and dealing with outside
> groups in giving away field and gym usage. The
> coaches have a hard time getting gym time for
> green days because she will sell gym time six
> months in advance.
>
> Unfortunately it is the wild west with fees.
> Outside for profit groups pay a ton, or are
> supposed to pay a ton, to use fcps facilities, but
> they don't.
>
> Let's say a private individual wants to run a kids
> basketball camp at a school. They should pay this
> higher fee but they don't. The dsa will cut a deal
> and say, well let some of our kids attend your
> camp for free and we will give you a discount.
>
> It is a mess.


This sounds like a huge issue. Who handles fraud in the school system?

The facility usage fees are determined,assessed, and collected centrally via Community Use. So they say........

Nobody in fcps rats on anyone so fraud is rampant.

Wrapping up the restaurant/expense tour, for now-

Nobody can produce any more itemized receipts. Nobody can produce any more legible receipts. Some expenses are conveniently/mercifully outside of the records retention period. Some just can't find the darn things at all. They are working on improving the system. I would hope so. I could do a pile more requests but I think people got the idea of what is going on. Sketchy records, non-existent records, etc.

I was sent a notice on October 9th that I had many overdue FOIA bills (I have 30 days to pay them) and I was no longer welcome in the FOIA department. The bills were dated Sept. 17th, 22nd, and 25th. I checked the calendar, did the math, and asked for an explanation. I haven't heard back. They have all since been paid. I am back in business!!!! (This all technically public record, so what the Hell. I got a laugh out of it.)

I received organizational documents on the High School and Middle School Principals Associations. They are basically "wholly or principally publicly funded organizations" (which make them subject to FOIA), use the FCPS IRS ID number (which additionally makes them public), run the money through a public account, but declare that their meetings are confidential(?!). Do they have the right to also withhold this information from their superiors? I have copies of a Charter and Bylaws. Remember, we all pay for their dues, golf, restaurants, meals, refreshments, hotel rooms, etc. from school activity funds. I think if they want to meet and talk with total confidentiality (there are specific exclusions on what can be classified as a closed meeting and the whole meeting can't be closed-just those parts that are excluded) they need to do one of two things-

1-Get their own IRS ID number. Be approved as a certified employee organization. They could probably be FOIA-exempt with this, because they would pay for their own stuff (dues, meals, golf) out of THEIR personal bank accounts so they are NOT PUBLICLY FUNDED. Representatives are supposed to meet periodically with School Board and Superintendents. They would receive free use of public facilities for their meetings. They can do payroll deduction for their dues, get organizational leave, etc. Somebody in charge would have to sign a statement say they would agree to not impede the functioning of government or try to overthrow it(!).

2-Skip the tax ID number, etc. Ditch the charter and Bylaws. Just go out to Morton's, go golfing, etc, talk, and pay for it themselves.

Some of the meetings/events are probably actually work, so they should be able to get mileage or the $11.50 for those with either option. Some AREN'T work (like golf, holiday dinners, etc.). Some of the meetings are actually during the school day. People have meetings all the time at work. People who work together also go out to eat together and go Dutch. Two entirely different things. This is tricky. We shouldn't have to pay for some of this. We shouldn't have to pay for a LOT of this.

Either way, that might help with the $100 Morton's dinners and $180 hotel rooms. It would also allow them to talk in secret, at least sometimes. They have a right to do that. No problem. A win-win situation.

Thoughts?

Have nice weekend.

Check out the definitions of a public body, meeting, closed meeting, and exclusions.

What do you all think?
Attachments:

Clean it up. That money is supposed to be used for educational purposes. These people should be fined.

^^^^^^must be a typo. FIRED is more like it. Damndest association I ever heard of. Publicly funded shenanigans. More citizen abuse.