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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: fake heroin? ()
Date: September 11, 2013 07:40AM

So what is this "fake heroin" stuff? Apparently you can have a real OD from it.

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: More Warrants ()
Date: September 11, 2013 08:45AM

From http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/mclean-teen-who-died-was-with-group-using-drugs-court-papers/2013/09/10/ec5548f6-1a52-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html

Emylee Lonczak, McLean teen found dead, was with group using drugs, court papers say
By Justin Jouvenal, Published: September 10

A 16-year-old McLean girl who was found dead last month was part of a group that used illegal narcotics in the hours before her death, according to search warrants filed in Fairfax County court.

Emylee Lonczak, who attended McLean High School, left home on Aug. 21 with two adult males and then traveled out of the state to purchase an unspecified drug from a third adult male, according to a search warrant. Members of the group then used the drug.

In the early morning hours of Aug. 22, the group returned to Fairfax County after realizing that Lonczak needed medical attention, according to a search warrant. However, none was sought.

Investigators determined that Lonczak died later that morning and that her body was concealed in the Vienna area.

Police filed several search warrants in Fairfax County Circuit Court to gain access to the Facebook accounts of Lonczak and the men she was with that night. Police are exploring filing charges of contributing to the delinquency of a minor in the case, according to the search warrant.

Because they have not been charged with crimes, The Washington Post is not naming the men.

Investigators had previously filed another warrant to search the home of one the men Lonczak was with before she died. The man told police he had been out with Lonczak drinking beer and smoking marijuana on Aug. 21, according to the warrant. He told police he then brought Lonczak back to his Vienna-area home.

Lonczak remained at his house for a few hours before leaving on foot, the man said. On Aug. 23, a police bloodhound tracked Lonczak’s scent to an area behind the home, where her body was found, according to the search warrant.

Fairfax County police had previously said narcotics might be a factor in Lonczak’s death. They are still awaiting the medical examiner’s determination of how she died.

Officers found Lonczak’s body on the morning of Aug. 23 in the 8200 block of Madrillon Estates Drive, police said. Police initially said Lonczak had been reported as a runaway but later said she was voluntarily in the company of people she knew before she died.

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: Multiple Warrants ()
Date: September 11, 2013 08:52AM

Some one said that there were two guys and the girl. One of them asked her if she wanted to try fake heroin. SHe started shake and foam out at the mouth. One guy left and other guy drove to tHe one of the houses by where the body was found. Guy put on the couch and went to sleep and woke and she was dead. So He was scared and dragged the buddy outside.



There's also a Murder of the English Language warrant being issued for you. Are you a Fairfax County HIgh School student?

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: CONtradiction ()
Date: September 12, 2013 10:35PM

Uh, what does it mean to CONtradict oneself? Someone told me I was always CONtradicting myself and it makes me look stupid. Like, they also said I was an idiot hipocritical bigot? What does this mean?

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: burp ()
Date: September 12, 2013 10:58PM

Beep

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: Sleuth ()
Date: September 13, 2013 07:13AM

Who were the other guys with Emylee besides Kyle Alifom? Had they also gone to Marshall?

Glad to see the police are evaluating potential criminal charges against these guys.

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: inevitable ()
Date: September 13, 2013 07:44PM

if all the allegations against this group of dudes who was with this poor girl before she died are true, then i may be familiar with at least kyle. only met him once or twice more than a year or so ago, and was not a fan. but i'm not here to bash anyone's name. one can speculate who these other 2 people were, and until more names are released no one can be for sure. i will tell you this though. heroin completely takes over your life if you let it (and you WILL let it) - even if you don't want to let it, it will happen sooner or later. it's easily the most addictive drug available anywhere.

from the outside, heroin does not "seem that bad". it has a horrible connotation that its soley an IV drug (can be shot, insufflated or smoked) and that you are a complete douchebag if you partake in anything of the sort. everything and anything can be justified while being an active user - it just seems to make sense at the time. but as an addict, one's brain functions completely differently compared to a non-addicted brain. i am NOT trying to justify what happened to this girl, and as fucked up as it was to drag a dead girl out behind your neighbors house, it probably seemed alright at the time to them. should they be held responsible for this? at the very least, they were the main contributors to her end situation, and should be charged to some extent. it's sad, but in all honesty, with the amount of drugs consumed in the McLean/Vienna/Great Falls/Falls Church area, i am surprised that something like this hasn't happened more often.

by the way, there is no such thing as "fake" heroin. it either is, or it isnt. and who, regardless of age, would say yes to someone's offer of "hey, wanna try fake (insert drug here)?" give me a fucking break. heroin is bad, as are all drugs, but if you're going to do any, know your limits. it's simple really.

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: The Realist ()
Date: September 13, 2013 08:01PM

What is your source of information for "the amount of drugs consumed in the McLean/Vienna/Great Falls/Falls Church area"? You weren't stoned or anything when you wrote that were you?

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: your friendly neighborhood troll ()
Date: September 13, 2013 08:35PM

can't tell if serious or just thick headed? i don't have any shame in saying that i was a heroin/oxycontin addict for 4 years. i spent 9 months in jail to think about the direction my life was headed, and decided it was time to be an actual adult. i have been sober for almost a year (the ONLY reason i decided to make my first post ever on this side-show of a website), but that is besides the point. let's try to stay on topic shall we?

it's no secret that :

lots of money + lots of free time + bored and spoiled kids/young adults/whatever you'd like to call them = drug use. I've had a half dozen friend groups in McLean/ Great Falls/ Fairfax over the past 10 years, since high school, and the one common denominator between all of these groups has been, you guessed it, drugs. people do drugs to fit in, because their acquaintances do them, because they are bored and can't express themselves or find other things that interest them to do. face it, Northern Virginia is a very boring place to grow up in, and there has always been plenty of drugs available to occupy the time of the privileged around here.

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: Ricky ()
Date: September 13, 2013 09:50PM

Did Emylee have sex with these men?

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: #%&*@ ()
Date: September 13, 2013 10:50PM

Homeboy brought skittles to a gun fight!




news bad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bad news is obviously a highly bigoted hate whitey
> nagroid by the content of his posts.
>
> And, since Zimmerman was found NOT GUILTY,
> clearly, known by the case details, Travonwas and
> still is GUILTY. END OF STORY, BIGOTS.
>
> trayvon's death was and is justified, BY LAW!

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: coldasshonky ()
Date: September 13, 2013 10:56PM

Feel bad they lost a daughter, but wtf kind of parents let their daughter run with this crowd?


It all starts at home!

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: Who is the Lamb Center fanatic? ()
Date: September 14, 2013 11:55PM

The OP poster posting about the Lamb Center in relation to this post must know something we do not about the place. And what about this Lamb Center thread? Think I'll take a gander!

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: excuse me? ()
Date: September 15, 2013 12:35AM

Excuse me? Please?

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: downthatroad ()
Date: September 18, 2013 03:43PM

Everyone acting like they know exactly what happened is completely insane. Who are you to sit there and judge people in this situation. The main thing people are saying about the girl is "oh that poor innocent girl". Was she a "poor innocent girl" when she willingly took the drugs? You never really know someone's other side unless they show you, which clearly she didn't show many people. Majority of you guys don't actually care about any of this, just want to be nosey because shit like this doesn't happen that often in this area. You can claim you know all the fact because you "read the news", but at the end of the day none of you were actually there when everything went down. So just leave it the fuck alone, whatever happens will happen but with no help from you. Your not going to effect the case nor find out details that the cops don't already know.

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: Judge Dredd ()
Date: September 18, 2013 04:01PM

Who are you to sit there and judge people in this situation.


Sorry, to leave a girl to OD and die, and to then clumsily hide her body...it's easy as hell to judge people in "this situation."

Friend of the accused?

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: what about mommy and daddy? ()
Date: September 18, 2013 11:25PM

So. Like. I suppose the mother and father of this poor dead teenage girl are both the perfect parents. Of loving and understanding. When is our justice system going to start making any real just sense and start to hold the parents more accountable? You know. Kind of like holding high ranking government officials and politicians accountable for what they do as well!

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: Monkey on a keyboard ()
Date: September 18, 2013 11:29PM

So. Like. I suppose the mother and father of this poor dead teenage girl are both the perfect parents. Of loving and understanding. When is our justice system going to start making any real just sense and start to hold the parents more accountable? You know. Kind of like holding high ranking government officials and politicians accountable for what they do as well!



So. Like. Are you retarded?

Please don't tell us you're a product of Fairfax County schools...

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: The i-66 interchanges surroundin ()
Date: September 19, 2013 12:28AM

The I-66 Interchanges thru out Fairfax with many being very close in vicinity to Vienna are being turned into camping grounds and in some spots even homesteaded by many homeless people being drawn into the region by certain help centers like The Lamb Center. Convicted criminals from both the State Prison and local jails are told to go to the LAMB CENTER at 3220 Old Lee Highway, Fairfax VA. 22031. where they do and are getting extra special favored treatment and help there by the convicted criminals that run the place criminally. It is at Fairfax Circle. And if you Google Map Quest it and look closely at its location, you can see how the I-66 Interchanges with Rt. 50, Rt. 123 (Chain Bridge Road that goes right thru Vienna, VA. ) would very well be affected by this trend of criminals coming into and affecting the area. And the LC is not the only help place that practices the same policy's that draw the criminals into the area. facetscares.org is pretty much the same. Especially during the winter months with their winter shelter Hypothermia program. And many illegal immigrants already illegally in the country displaying their criminal tendencies to become even more criminal like the recent 'Corta Nalga' ( the Butt Slasher ) that was well known to be catered to by these two help centers with their ridiculously liberal policy's and helping these types 'extra special & favored' above and beyond all others in need. Yes. And it is these very types that are living in the wooded areas thruout Fairfax, in and around these two help centers. Fairfax authorities have been trying to crack down on most of it and have put a small 'dent' in it, but these I -66 Interchanges are run and owned State property's and Fairfax authority has none there ( authority ) to say whether or not this ' homesteading ' and camping is stopped there or not. And these types of people running these help centers mentioned just do not give a damn about the over all impact their operations are having on the region. Especially Vienna or Oakton. Two other help center/operations in the area that are contributing to this effect but not as much as the first two mentioned, is Pastor Pat's out of Greenbriar, who also has part of her help operation going on at The Lamb Center on 'Movie/Pizza Night' the first and third Friday nights of each month. And Pastor Munny's 'Love the World Fellowship' services on Sunday's regularly at The Truro Church at North St. & Main St. ( Rt. 236 ) between 1:00 pm. & 3:30 pm ( around to the back bottom entrance to the church ). All this help is being offered, food and more. Without any type of ' screening ' going on. And these four operations are very well being overrun, tremendously, by illegal immigrants and convicted criminals being drawn into the area from all over/abroad. And even from other country's? And think of the influence these criminals are having on the area/region, overall. The crime rate in the area since these operations have started is steadily on the rise. The types of crimes are worse than ever. Do these people have no conscious? The death of this girl, this thread, was probably somehow influenced by all this. Drugs being brought in from all over. And since Prince William County cracked down on the illegal immigrants there, the problem here in Fairfax and NOVA has become much, much worse! With Washington, DC also drastically lowering the amount of help for the needy and homeless as well? You figure it out!

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: Downthatroad ()
Date: September 19, 2013 06:16PM

Because you were there and know exactly what happend right? No I didn't think so. All you know is what you hear on the news, and no I'm not friends with anyone in this situation I just think it's funny that because she's a 16 year old
Girl that it's a huge deal. I bet if it was an older male that overdosed no one would care even half as much as they do now. Just saying

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: More Info ()
Date: November 18, 2013 07:08AM

Updated: McLean High School Student's Death Ruled 'Accidental'
Emylee Lonczak was found dead in an affluent Vienna neighborhood in August.
http://mclean.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/mclean-high-school-students-death-ruled-accidental

The state medical examiner's office has ruled the death of 16-year-old Emylee Lonczak of McLean was an "accident" caused by her body's reaction to illegal drugs and an over-the-counter antihistamine.

Lonczak was found dead Aug. 23 behind some bushes in an affluent Vienna neighborhood. It was less than two weeks before what would have been the start of her junior year at McLean High School.

Lonczak's manner of death was ruled an "accident," according to the state medical examiner's office in Manassas. The office determined the cause to be due to the "adverse effects of heroin and diphenhydramine."

Diphenhydramine is the active ingredient in antihistamines like Benadryl. It's also found in some sleep aids, like Tylenol PM.

On Aug. 21, Lonczak went out with two adult men, and the group traveled out-of-state to buy drugs from a third man, according to past reports. All four used the drugs, and the group noticed Lonczak needed medical attention the next morning as they were returning home, but did nothing about it, according to a Washington Post report at the time.

In September, Fairfax County police began searching four Facebook accounts, looking for photos or written clues as to what happened the night of Lonczak's death, NBC4 reported at the time.

No charges have been filed in this case, Fairfax County police spokesman Don Gotthardt told Patch in an email Wednesday afternoon.

Detectives do intend to file charges at some point, he stated.


The case remains an open and active investigation.

This article was updated to include the statements from police spokesman Don Gotthardt.
Attachments:
909d4e0efbd552dc2e2772ff9ec2ec76.png

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: Make 'em Pay ()
Date: January 18, 2014 01:53AM

OFFENDER ID NUMBER 1480416
OFFENDER NAME Kyle Sileshi Alifom
GENDER Male
RACE Black
VADOC RELEASE DATE
LOCATION Alexandria City Jail

I hear he is pleading guilty, but what are the charges?

He has a felony possession charge but that arrest was about a week before Emylee's death. Are there no charges related to her death?

--

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: nXYJE ()
Date: January 18, 2014 02:44AM

If drugs were legal maybe the men would have been more likely to have summoned for help.

Maybe prohibition is partly responsible for her death.

Food for thought.

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: Who are the other two? ()
Date: February 02, 2014 04:10PM

from http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/mclean-high-school-students-heroin-overdose-shows-disturbing-trend-facing-police/2014/01/31/5d7e724a-8ab1-11e3-916e-e01534b1e132_story.html

McLean High School student’s heroin overdose shows disturbing trend facing police

By Matt Zapotosky and Justin Jouvenal, Published: January 31, 2014

The teen had never injected heroin before, authorities say, and on that hot summer night, she could not find a vein. An acquaintance put the needle in Emylee Lonczak’s arm for her.

As she and others drove back to Northern Virginia from the District, the 16-year-old passed out, court papers say. Someone suggested dumping her in the city, but the other two people in the car said no, the papers say. They finally settled on carrying her into the basement of one of their homes, laying her on a bed.

One friend, who now faces federal criminal charges, later told investigators that he was with the McLean High School student when she died, court papers say. Fearing he would get in trouble, he said, he dragged her body outside and left it near some shrubs. He covered it with a screen window.

About two days later, police found Lonczak’s body. The medical examiner determined that the heroin — combined with a common antihistamine — caused her death.

...

According to a federal affidavit in Lonczak’s death, the teen was part of a group of four who set out from Virginia on Aug. 21 to buy heroin from a dealer in Washington. On the ride back — after someone else injected her — Lonczak fell unconscious, according to the affidavit.

A 20-year-old Virginia man in the vehicle, Kyle Alifom, suggested that the group dump her in Washington, according to the affidavit. The others said no, the affidavit says. Eventually, Alifom and one other person in the group took Lonczak to Alifom’s house in Vienna, according to the affidavit. It says the two took her inside and put her on a bed in the basement.

But after the other person left, Alifom — who was not the one to inject Lonczak — dragged Lonczak’s body to an area filled with shrubs and put a screen window over it, according to the affidavit. He told a detective he believed Lonczak had “died in his presence,” and he was concerned about getting in trouble because he was on probation for other offenses, according to the affidavit. Court records show his probation stemmed from a trespassing charge.

Police found Lonczak’s body about two days later. Months later, Alifom was charged in federal court in Alexandria with knowing that heroin was distributed resulting in a death and assisting the offender to hinder his apprehension, trial and punishment. His defense attorney wrote in court papers that Alifom is accused of being an “accessory after the fact,” noting that Alifom did not sell or give Lonczak any drugs.

The defense attorney, Kevin Brehm, said Friday that Alifom, who is being held without bond, did not suggest dumping Lonczak’s body in Washington during the ride to Virginia. He said his client has cooperated with investigators and was in a residential drug treatment program when he was arrested.

Court papers say Alifom was “struggling” with the rules at the treatment facility — in part because of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and in part because of Lonczak’s death. The papers suggest Alifom had a long struggle with drug abuse, having completed a drug treatment program at a private boarding school in North Carolina when he was 16 years old.

...

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: RangerRikki ()
Date: February 02, 2014 06:55PM

When you lie down with dogs, sometimes you get up with fleas, sometimes they "bury" you in a yard under a screen. I hope these pigs go to jail for a very long time.

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Court documents shed new light on mysterious death of McLean teen
Posted by: ***Updated*** ()
Date: February 07, 2014 06:43AM

Court documents shed new light on mysterious death of McLean teen
Vienna man faces federal charges for alleged involvement in girl’s death
http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/article/20140207/NEWS/140209476/1117/court-documents-shed-new-light-on-mysterious-death-of-mclean-teen&template=fairfaxTimes

A Vienna man is being charged in the case of a 16-year-old McLean girl whose body was discovered last August.

The body of Emylee Lonczak was discovered Aug. 23, 2013, in between two homes in the 8200 block of Madrillon Estates Drive in Vienna, about four miles from her own home in the 1500 block of Cedar Ave. in McLean.

A recently unsealed affidavit filed in U.S. District Court by Fairfax County Police Detective Stephen M. Needels states that on Aug. 21, Lonczak, a McLean High School student, had been in the company of a friend from Vienna — 19-year-old Kyle Alifom — and two other unidentified men.

The group of four traveled together to Washington, D.C., to purchase heroin, the affidavit states. Afterward, the group parked their vehicle somewhere in the District and injected themselves with the heroin.

The affidavit states that Lonczak, unable to find a vein to inject herself with a 30cc dose of heroin that eventually killed her, received help from one of the men.

Later, she became unconscious in the vehicle. While Lonczak was potentially in need of medical attention, the affidavit states that “Alifom suggested that they dump Lonczak’s body somewhere in the District of Columbia.”

But the two unidentified men disagreed and continued back to Fairfax County, dropping her off, still unconscious, at Alifom’s Vienna home, along with Alifom, according to the affidavit.

Needels said in the affidavit that Alifom admitted that Lonczak died in his presence and that fearing retribution, “he dragged Lonczak’s body through the grass to an area of shrubbery [where he] left her body … and placed a screen window over her in an attempt to conceal the body from others.”

Alifom currently faces federal charges for his role in the incident. His attorney, Kevin R. Brehm of the Office of the Federal Public Defender in Alexandria, did not return messages left for him seeking comment. Alifom has been charged with knowing there had been heroin distributed that resulted in death, and with assisting the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, according to the criminal complaint.

Court records state that a physical examination of Lonczak’s body revealed she had never injected heroin before.

Alifom had a history of drug abuse going back at least three years at the time of Lonczak’s death.

Court records state that when he was 16, Alifom underwent drug treatment at a residential facility in North Carolina. Since then, he had attempted treatment in two Fairfax County residential treatment programs but left one program before completion, and was in the process of being discharged from the other program based on noncompliant behavior. He had also been court-ordered to attend drug treatment classes with Virginia Alcohol and Drug Services as a condition of his probation, but was also noncompliant there, and eventually served a jail term for failing to comply with the terms of his probation, court records state.

In a Jan. 25 request to deny bond for Alifom, Acting U.S. Attorney Dana J. Boente states that Alifom “has demonstrated a pattern of failing to comply with court ordered conditions of release by continuing to use drugs, refusing to follow through with treatment, and committing new crimes, including the current offense.”

Peggy Cook, director of Residential Treatment Services for Fairfax County, said that A New Beginning — the residential program that court records say Alifom was being discharged from for noncompliance at the time of Lonczak’s death — has an overall success rate of about 60 percent. “That is better than the national average of 50 percent,” she said.

Cook said that Crossroads Youth, the other Fairfax County residential treatment program that court records say Alifom left before completing when he was 17, is a 15-bed facility that recently has only been able to house 10 boys at a time due to staffing issues.

“If someone leaves the program early against staff advice we try to re-engage them,” she said. “Sometimes they respond and sometimes they don’t.”

Court records state that prosecutors are seeking an indictment in Alifom’s case, and have until Feb. 11 to obtain it. Alifom is currently being held without bond.
Attachments:
AR-140209476.jpg

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: fuckthisdude ()
Date: February 07, 2014 04:42PM

here is that thread!

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: c9Xpm ()
Date: February 07, 2014 08:58PM

Wow, black people are involved? What a surprise? Black people + drugs = homicide

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: Finally ()
Date: February 09, 2014 11:41AM

Justice will be served!

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: still waiting for justice ()
Date: October 14, 2014 09:09PM

So the other two adult males, besides Alifom, who traveled to DC, acquired heroin, injected a minor, transported the minor across state lines twice for the purpose of acquiring heroin, and abandoned an overdosed minor are never identified or charged? What the hell?

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: behind the mattress store ()
Date: October 14, 2014 09:18PM

still waiting for justice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So the other two adult males, besides Alifom, who
> traveled to DC, acquired heroin, injected a minor,
> transported the minor across state lines twice for
> the purpose of acquiring heroin, and abandoned an
> overdosed minor are never identified or charged?
> What the hell?


Happens all the time in Vienna.

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: 22180 resident ()
Date: October 16, 2014 06:29AM

behind the mattress store Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> still waiting for justice Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So the other two adult males, besides Alifom,
> who
> > traveled to DC, acquired heroin, injected a
> minor,
> > transported the minor across state lines twice
> for
> > the purpose of acquiring heroin, and abandoned
> an
> > overdosed minor are never identified or
> charged?
> > What the hell?
>
>
> Happens all the time in Vienna.

The poor girl was found in 22182, about a mile from 22180

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: 309efrfj ()
Date: October 31, 2019 12:46AM

the two spics who killed the girl for sex, left her in the bushes, brought in by bullova because they "vote democrat" ...

GET THE HAIL SATAN AWARD for who not to let your daughter out with !!

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Re: Body of 16yr. old girl found in Vienna
Posted by: Old soul ()
Date: October 31, 2019 09:38PM

about this dead girl- vienna? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Overheard William Patrick Ab ell, the a.k.a. 'Bill'
> Abell talking about this with some connection.
> And Vienna, Va . Is his favorite 'stomping
> grounds' when he is not slagging at The Lam
> Center. He has already gotten away with killing a
> young woman a while back that he has admitted to
> too many aboyt. So why not this runaway girl?

Bill is in rough shape these days I hear. That lifestyle is abhorrent

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