Virginia is a one party state when it comes to recording calls. Go for it, let's see if someone can catch one of these FCPS idiots saying something stupid.

reel to real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Virginia is a one party state when it comes to
> recording calls. Go for it, let's see if someone
> can catch one of these FCPS idiots saying
> something stupid.

^^^^^
Look, somebody has to able to get through to a School Board member or a member of the Administration without resorting to this type of snarky nasty behavior. Unfortunately for some of you there is nothing wrong with using Boosterthon, it is just that it needs to be done outside of school hours and have the money run through school accounts. You can then decide if you want your child to participate or not. It needs to be taken off the list for parent groups to contract for since it involves using students to raise money, and needs to taken out of the classrooms and school day. Somebody needs to set some limits with these groups. I can't believe other school systems are allowing the use of teaching hours for this as well as Fcps. What are they all thinking?

reel to real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Virginia is a one party state when it comes to
> recording calls. Go for it, let's see if someone
> can catch one of these FCPS idiots saying
> something stupid.


If people start with tactics like this there will be absolutely no communication with parents. There isn't a lot as it is, but you are really slamming the door shut.

It seems like people started being cordial. The PTA/PTOs refused to provide copies of the contracts. Contacting some principals got nowhere-go talk to Gatehouse. At Gatehouse, Atwater said the matter was closed and Zuluaga played telephone games.

"No communication with parents?" How about "no more cushy job?" These people are well paid, part of the job entails responding to taxpayer concerns. If they don't like it, they can find private schools to work for.

Yes, people say parents support Boosterthon. It is not clear how much longer that support will last. It is also true that given low voter turnout in off years, school board seats can be decided by just a handful of votes. Even a small anti-Boosterthon effort could unseat even the mighty McElveen. McElveen and the others know this. It is hard to believe that they will put their cushy jobs at risk because of idiocy with the schools and PTA/PTOs.

I agree this bunch is a pain in the ass to deal with. I agree that with their six-figure salaries that we pay them they should get back to you. I think these threads were a great idea (in spite of there being too many and the wild tangents they went off on) to get the word out and rally the parents and share thoughts and ideas and inform them. Posting the contracts, communications, regulations, etc. so that all can see them and think about them and put their heads together can really help. Gatehouse reads all these, also. However, I do think it is a shame that it has gotten to the point where somebody might record a conversation and catch somebody saying something stupid because they are so desperate to get some action on these issues and get Fcps to make some firm decisions that are clearly communicated and enforced. I think that speaks to the stonewalling Gatehouse likes to do when they are caught doing things that are not in keeping with their regulations.

Well, FCPS brought it on themselves. Instead of saying "thank you for your interest in our school fundraiser" it is "the matter is closed."

Gatehouse is as high as it goes, the BoS is embroiled in budget games right now.

So it seems you have to stoop low to get results. If the whole Boosterthon thing was done on the up and up, it'd be fine. Maybe a few points of clarification. But what we have is ridiculous. Unlimited access to schools and kids. Unqualified teachers. Dubious lessons. Exploitation of kids. No disclosure of much of anything.

As bad as it is to say it, it would be nice to catch someone with their foot in their mouth and just be done with this. As a taxpayer, I for one am not putting up with this scheme that makes money for Boosterthon and provides free travel to Atlanta for the PTO.

Gatehouse needs to learn some very valuable lessons.

1)when a problem comes up, read their guidelines about how things are supposed to be handled. Are they being followed? If not, then---
2) change how they are doing things so that they are following what they are supposed to do. Right away!
3)if the regulations are not current and useful then they need to update them. Quickly.
4)they then need to communicate changes to the staff, insist the new regulations be followed, assure the parents that they will monitor and enforce their policies. Immediately.


Time and time again they stagger around like fools trying to ignore what is going on, refuse to talk about it, delay decisive action, you have to get uglier and uglier with them, which leads to horrible relationships with parents and stakeholders and prolongs and magnifies their problems. And it makes them look like a bunch of jackasses.

This is all about treating children and their parents properly, and also protecting staff from doing things that are not a good idea.

Suggestion---- Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is too bad. They are avoiding you. Agreed.

Well "avoiding you" could be taken as a personal affront - which would be unfortunate.

I got a note a while back from Delegate LeMunyon's office saying that an issue was hung up because they hadn't heard back from FCPS. And this is in line with my own experiences - and the expreiences with the " Slam the door? No." poster above, I gather - when communicating with FCPS at the district level.

So while I don't know about Zuluaga in particular, this difficulty with communication just seems par for the course for FCPS. I very much doubt they're just out to avoid *you*.

Meanwhile, I can't see how "stooping low" with surreptitiously recorded phone calls - even if you caught something mildly incriminating - would jar them, somehow, into introspection. I agree that ill will is the far more likely outcome.

Like most organizations anywhere, FCPS may be prone to "circling the wagons" if something goes awry. The way through that is either outcry from a very large number of people (not gonna happen if you're only going to campaign here in this tiny dark corner of the internet called FFXU) or if the issue is incontrovertibly shown to risk the health, safety, or security of people - especially students.

I think FFU is a good place to rally. I think the sharing and posting of the ideas, contracts, etc. will help those who are trying to work through this. This forum reaches hundreds, maybe thousands of people an area so large that it is difficult to meet to discuss these things and collaborate. They now know what questions to ask, things to discuss, things they have the right to expect (like a contract that anybody can see). You get a lot of people speaking up, and it can make a huge difference. I think putting this information out here can put a lot of pressure on the school system to get this cleaned up since many different types of people are following this-taxpayers, potential leaders of the community, etc. Their decisions and behavior are on display right here.

Whatever else you say about this site, it does have very good SEO. Google "Boosterthon complaints" and FFXU is bound to show up.

If they have any of these "ask the candidate" sessions this year, Boosterthon WILL come up, and they need to be prepared for that.

FFXU - SEO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever else you say about this site, it does
> have very good SEO. Google "Boosterthon
> complaints" and FFXU is bound to show up.

I don't disagree - I'm pretty sure some at FCPS, Booster, and even Apex (as we've seen) are aware of these discussions. But the "activists" (myself included) seem to be far from significant in number.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6tAcjloe35HdEZER1dxdHM1VEs1TWRwd3BQdG9TdkxlbWhz/view?pli=1

In addition to Boosterthon, Union Mill ES is doing another run/walk/whatever. It is through the neighborhood. The police are going to help shut down roads. It is $20 per person. It says it is a "school" event. But, the money goes to the PTA. There is a joint release to sign to protect the school, the PTA, and the Fairfax County schools.

If children are used, the money is supposed to run through a school account. Interesting that the release has the PTA and the school system and the school on it.

Just WHO is the sponsor of THIS thing? Anybody care to take a crack at this one?

go read the thread Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems like people started being cordial. The
> PTA/PTOs refused to provide copies of the
> contracts. Contacting some principals got
> nowhere-go talk to Gatehouse. At Gatehouse,
> Atwater said the matter was closed and Zuluaga
> played telephone games.
>
> "No communication with parents?" How about "no
> more cushy job?" These people are well paid, part
> of the job entails responding to taxpayer
> concerns. If they don't like it, they can find
> private schools to work for.
>
> Yes, people say parents support Boosterthon. It is
> not clear how much longer that support will last.
> It is also true that given low voter turnout in
> off years, school board seats can be decided by
> just a handful of votes. Even a small
> anti-Boosterthon effort could unseat even the
> mighty McElveen. McElveen and the others know
> this. It is hard to believe that they will put
> their cushy jobs at risk because of idiocy with
> the schools and PTA/PTOs.



Maybe those who tried to talk with Dr. Zuluaga could try again. They read these threads at the Taj Mahal. I know they do. You might be able to get through to the Executive Principal easier. Give it a few days for them to catch up on the communications here, take a deep breath, try to be polite but firm, and try again.
I liked the comment about "no more cushy job". They are very well paid. Have you tried contacting your School Board member? If you can't reach your Super, and have even notified Dr. Garza, you are at the point of enlisting the help of your SB.
No wonder the doors to the Executive suites are locked.

Who do these people think they are, royalty?

The school board members will just send your request off to Dr. Lockard who will not tell you much of anything.

They have a nice thing going. The schools get tax money. They use the schools to get more money from Boosterthon. The PTA people get free trips to Atlanta.

Every few years the school board is up for re-election and they can replace a few higher ups. So they get it while the getting is good.

But they do not want to hear from lowly taxpayers. We just get in the way of their plans.

I for one plan to vote against my local school board member and all of the at large members. When the new board is in I will ask that they remove Garza and as many of the rest of them as possible.

How could it get worse? Anyhow, these people at Gatehouse need to learn how the real world operates. 6 figures to write back "the matter is closed"? Nice work if you can get it I suppose.

i reached out to the national PTA recently and this is what i got. I thought it was an interesting response. it sounds like they are in support of it!

NewHorizon, did they say the same thing to you?

We so appreciate your thoughtful inquiry! Thanks also for your patience in this delayed response.

National PTA’s long-standing position is that PTA leaders and parents are serving on behalf of children, and it is in that role that parents fundraise on behalf of children.

PTA does not believe that children should ever be the primary fund-raiser, whether going door to door soliciting donations or sending emails requesting donations from family members or in any other capacity. Other entities differ in their position regarding the use of children as fund raisers, such as Girl Scouts that actively encourage children to sell personally. (This is not a criticism, only an observation that different organizations take different approaches.)

That said, children absolutely can participate in school or PTA sponsored activities like healthy fun runs and walks (e.g., Fire Up Your Feet!), but it is the parents who solicit donations and raise funds on behalf of the children – not the children themselves. Frequently, we see parents set up fundraising pages to solicit donations on behalf of their child and their child’s school or PTA, and then the parent reaches out to their friends and family to gain donations for the online fundraising page. The child may participate in a sponsored fun run or walk that is linked to the fundraiser, but only as a participant in the experience – not as a method for gaining incremental donations. (So for example, a child cannot be made to walk X miles or laps in exchange for earning a dependent donation pledge.)

While it may seem like semantics, the difference feels important to maintain the premise of PTA supporting children rather than leveraging children.

Let me know it that helps or if you need more clarification. At this time, PTA’s written policies will stand as-is.

Thanks!

Kris

National PTA | Manager, Resource Development & Corporate Alliances

So exactly what can the national PTA do if a local PTA doesn't really follow the PTA guidelines? You really think they are going to pull their credentials? I doubt it. Even if they do, they can just form a PTO and quit doing it.

Your biggest clout is calling the school system on ignoring and violating state laws and school regulations and using taxpayer funded instructional hours for fundraising. They should get their butts kicked for that.

PTAMOM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> .... it sounds like they are in support of it!
>
> NewHorizon, did they say the same thing to you?

Interesting, that's exactly - word for word - what I got (except, of course, you duly removed Kris' full name, phone numbers, etc).
Not sure which "it" you meant when you said "in support of it," though.

And then, yeah, what's the point of creating standards if nobody cares if they're followed?

I've forwarded the National PTA's message to a few dozen PTAs around the country. Not one responded.

So what? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So exactly what can the national PTA do if a local
> PTA doesn't really follow the PTA guidelines? You
> really think they are going to pull their
> credentials? I doubt it. Even if they do, they can
> just form a PTO and quit**** doing it.

*****"keep" doing it. I think I am going to turn off auto correct.

Like I said, even if they canceled the affiliation status, the parents would just morph into a PTO and do whatever they want. It has been done before. Many times. National PTA has the clout of a wet noodle. My personal opinion is the way to go at this is through the school system and the school board. Somebody needs to get tough and enforce the "no fundraisers during the school day" that has been the written policy for many years. Those instructional hours need to be protected. We pay dearly for those when we make our mortgage payments, etc. There is also a very clear regulation that says that any revenue generated involving students has to have the money run through school accounts. That makes the contract and money subject to the public records act, which solves the transparency problem. That should also fix the background check situation to some extent, although that looks more like an Honor System thing, which to me is unacceptable. Using the school contract and accounts would also relieve the parents from lots and lots of liability, which is always a good thing.

You would then have a clear choice as to whether to have your child participate or not, and parental interest would determine whether Boosterthon survives at your school.

Boosterthon just doesn't seem to be any different than any other fundraising company out there. They are all in this type of work to make money and they have every right to do this. It is just a matter of choice. I did like the different levels of usage options. It all depends on how much help you want and what you are willing to pay for.

So what? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It all depends on how much help
> you want and what you are willing to pay for.


With respect to some of these issues, I would disagree completely.

In the words of Kris from the Nat'l PTA, these particular Fun Runs are "leveraging children". This isn't a matter of personal preferences. Leveraging our kids is just outright wrong.

On a lesser note, my local PTA said the contributions would be less if contributors were informed up front what percentage Booster takes. This is an abuse of our generous contributors. Should we nevertheless choose to support this as a matter of personal preference? No. This too is simply wrong.

It's true that we can't just lay this all at Booster's feet. But given their deep Christian roots, I wouldn't have expected them to have a hand in such things.

Donors need to be informed of the percentage that is actually going to the kids. Any fundraising organization that is not transparent and doesn't reveal that information has no place in schools. It sets a bad example for kids of using dishonesty and deceit to get ahead.

It isn't up to the fundraising company to tell people pledging money and signing up their kids how much they keep. It is up to whoever contracted with them to share this information with the parents and the public. White Oaks had a little film on the website that clearly stated the amount. Everybody was made aware. FCPS actually stipulates that when the older kids go door to door they are supposed to tell the customers what the deal is with whatever fundraiser they are working on. Transparency in these parent groups is hit or miss. The school system has been addressing this with the music booster groups for the last several years. It has been quite a battle. Of course, transparency in the school system can be hit or miss, but I think with this type of situation it would not be a problem.

If you don't like leveraging your kids, then your option is to not participate. If this is handled outside of school hours, and the school system doesn't get too worked up on the promotion of this during school hours, then that problem is fixed. Freedom of choice and the free market will determine the fate of Boosterthon.

Boosterthon is a product and a business. That's the deal. Love it or hate it. You should have a choice. The power of the school system should be able to handle this. They just need to start acting like the professionals we pay them to be.

But....... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you don't like leveraging your kids, then your
> option is to not participate.

Opting out doesn't make right a wrong.

We don't have the freedom to choose to send our children to work in a coal mine.
That's a good thing.

Opting out does not necessarily make a right a wrong. I found as I was raising children and making life decisions that you are not always going to agree about things people ask you to be involved in. I strongly objected to asking anybody to help me pay the bills for my family via fundraising. I always felt it was my responsibility to pay for their school trips, fees, our personal expenses. I made the decision to have children and the bills associated with that were my responsibility. If my kids wanted to work a car wash, well, OK but don't go walking out in the street harassing people. The idea of calling people up, going door to door, etc. to ask for money was repulsive to me and I said NO. I didn't have a problem with a simple bake sale where if you wandered by and wanted something, fine. But, to go begging, NO. Girl Scout cookies were about the only thing we did because people were actually mad if you didn't tell them you were selling cookies.

If you don't like something, don't do it. Nobody is forcing you. All fundraising in public school is entirely optional. Selling cookie dough, wrapping paper, pies, etc., is all optional. You are going to find as your children get into high school there is enormous pressure put on you in things like music and athletic booster groups to do these things. Certainly in the music booster groups and programs this is entirely optional. These groups and teachers have supposedly been talked to about their behavior. Some of them are not being cooperative. You have rights. Just don't do it if you have a problem with it. They can't send you a bill for it, either. I think they might be looking at this in the athletic groups.

If you get this event outside of school hours and don't wrap it into a classroom activity you and your children should not be affected nearly as much. If people aren't interested the whole thing will die on the vine naturally.

I get all that. I dunno, maybe we're just talking past each other...?

And I draw a major distinction between these Fun Runs and the other fundraisers out there. With the Fun Runs, K-6 children are more manipulated than motivated to solicit for themselves cash pledges. For example, elsewhere, a parent wrote:

"The 'values' that the boosterthon cheerleaders taught my kids in their classroom activities involved how to get the next level toy. They even passed out the 'good' toys to play with before taking them back and telling them to 'go earn it'."

Let's say this parent ops out next time. What's been fixed? (Not a rhetorical question, really.)

Opting out - if that's all that you do - doesn't make "leveraging children" go away. It's actually a rather selfish thing to do. It only means you don't have to deal with it while yet allowing this inappropriate use of K-6 children to go on with that much less critical input.

Children working the coal mines didn't "die on the vine naturally." If were left up to "freedom of choice" and "market forces", kids would still be working there.

Tell you what, though, if, after reading Kris' message (above), you can still talk the National PTA - the group whose main mission has been child advocacy for over a century - into to removing this part of their standards for all of the reasons you stated, I'll concede. At http://www.ptakit.org/Fundraising/Fundraising-and-the-Purpose-of-PTA/Standards-for-PTA-Fundraising.aspx we read, "Children should not be the primary means of soliciting within fundraising activities."

For me - and maybe I'm missing something - I'm not seeing a downside to embracing these standards on behalf of all children except that it might make Fun Runs less lucrative...?

"God give me strength to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."



Children needed to be protected from working in coal mines and factories. That is why child labor laws were enacted. This was very dangerous for them, harmful to their health, and disrupted their education.

A Fun Run is no where near working in a coal mine or factory. It is a choice that you can either accept to do or decline. Some people really like the idea of kids running, getting public support, and prizes, rather than selling junk food. It is not inherently physically dangerous. Yes, it can be psychologically manipulative, but if handled properly, should not harm them. It sounds like it might not have been handled properly in some situations.

The school regulations prohibit making children feel bad or incurring any academic penalty due to participation in a fundraiser. I think they certainly could tone down some of this. The high school music programs got out of control and are still cleaning some of these issues up. Teachers were requiring participation in certain fundraisers as part of their class or would not let children go on a fun Spring Trip if they did not participate in certain fundraisers, for example. Parent groups were demanding money from other parents because their kid signed up for a music class. You really can't do this kind of stuff in public education. This has been addressed and the school system continues to monitor and set limits on these types of problems. Change is very hard. They are meeting resistance. They need to stand firm. They are having a hard time standing firm. Money is on the line.

Boosterthon has offered a product on the open market. You can either purchase it or not. You can either participate or not. There are lots of products available out there. I am sent stuff all the time about buying junk food for my child in college during finals. I do not participate because I do not feel this is a healthy way to deal with stress.


Greed can be a powerful Master if you let it get the best of you. It certainly has taken down many people.

Continue to speak your mind. Hold the school system accountable for the things they need to be held accountable for. And yes, point out the issues you have a problem with to your parent group. They are very hard to control, hard to set limits on, and are very power and money driven. They can be wonderful support groups, but can also be abusive bullies.

You have the right to a choice. But, so do they.

Having the actual run during school hours does not bother me as much because it is only one day and the exercise is beneficial.

However the Boosterthon employees interrupt the school day on many occasions. One can not simply "choose not to participate" because the daily curriculum is halted while Boosterthon employees are taking center stage in the classroom.

We pay teachers to teach during the day and the Boosterthon crap should be an AFTER SCHOOL activity. Furthermore their materials need to be up front about the percentage they are taking. It should be in writing on all their materials, not dependent on the kid or parent who is doing the soliciting to communicate it verbally.

What if they made Boosterton optional, and at some schools, only 2-3 people participated? That would be the end of it, I think.

funny idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if they made Boosterton optional, and at some
> schools, only 2-3 people participated? That would
> be the end of it, I think.

Well technically, Boosterthons are indeed optional. But the pressure on the K-6 children to participate is inappropriate, imo. A parent writes:

"[I'm] Concerned that poorer kids would feel bad when their relatives could not afford to support the school (and when their classmates received all manner of prizes). Not sure that this is consistent with “be respectful.” The Boosterthon prizes were plastic junk. Not sure that this is consistent with 'be green.' Would support a fun run event in a modified form.”

and from another:

“Too young for K-1. didn’t understand the concept. They just wanted the 'prizes'.”

I don't recall children getting this much pressure to sell cookie dough. But hey, the important thing is that Fun Runs are more lucrative, right? :-/

More to your question, though, as fewer people participate and as gross revenues go down, Booster's take goes up to as much as 70% (not to mention the $2,000 paid upon signing the contract), according to the 2014-2015 version of the Booster contracts (it was a flat 48% in earlier years). I would hope the PTA or parents would start abandoning Boosterthons long before they get near 70% - and so you probably don't need to get as far down as "2-3 people" before the "end of it".

(To "sell" folks on their new pricing scheme, Booster notes, "the more you make, the more you keep!" Sounds pretty sweet, eh?)

Yes, I would be pleased to see a critical mass of parents opting out of Boosterthons in its current form. But even if not, I'm naive enough to think that we can do more than just kvetch on the internet while the kids continue to be "leveraged".

http://www.fcps.edu/fs/comptroller/riskmanagement/certifiedvendors.shtml

Boosterthon is not on this list.

Did West Springfield ES get the statement form on Booster Enterprises? Did the school system ever get one? Somebody ask for records. NewHorizon, this sounds like something for you to follow up on since you are so good at this.
This list has "commonly used vendors", so it might not be all-inclusive. However, all vendors have to sign the form.

There is an utter lack of transparency here. Something is not right.

I get the impression there is a fair amount of damage control going on at Gatehouse right now. This has been a good thing for various people and now it seems it has to come to an end. Bad news in an election year!

This may topple not only the school board but Garza and her cronies as well.

And for what, so a few PTA soccer moms can go to Atlanta?

vendor statement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did West Springfield ES get the statement form on
> Booster Enterprises? Did the school system ever
> get one? Somebody ask for records. NewHorizon,
> this sounds like something for you to follow up on
> since you are so good at this.

Pretty easy for y'all (with a few exceptions) to toss stuff into a forum with a few clicks and let others do the legwork, eh?

If I get an answer about the certificate that I think you're talking about, I'll post it. (It's North Springfield, btw.) But on a related note, I can tell you that FCPS' position is this:

They say that Booster is legitimately contracted with FCPS (I know, I know - there's the whole activation question that's still unresolved) and as such, the Booster people must be vetted and meet contractual obligations. They also note that as Booster staff sign in through the automated visitor systems, they're run through sex offender registry checks.

As for those "contractual obligations", FCPS passed along this from the contract (slightly garbled because, I assume, it comes from a scan of the document):

44 BACKGROUND CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION/IDENTIFICATION:

1 By the signature of its authorized official on this contract, the Contractor certifies that neither the contracting official nor any of the Contractor's employees agents or subcontractors who will have direct contact with students has been convicted of a felony or any offense involving the sexual molestation or physical or sexual abuse Of rape of a child. Trl8 Contractor agrees to remove from the contract any employee, agent Of subcontractor who 11as been determined by the School Board to be disqualified from service due to such convictions or the failure to truthfully report such convictions. i

44.2 The Contractor shall Immediately notify the FCPS contract administrator if any Contractor or employee of said Contractor providing services under the contract is arrested or indicted as a defendant in Virginia or any other jurisdiction. FCPS reserves the right to require that the employee be suspended from working on the contract until the charge(s) is adjudicated. This requirement does not apply to minor traffic violations, not requiring the appearance of the employee in court, unless the charge includes the illegal possession, distribution, use or influence of drugs or alcohol

44 3 Contractor employees/representatives are required to have photo identification and be able to present same upon request. Contractor employees/representatives shall report to the appropriate administrative and/or main office each time a site is visited. All contractors will be required to wear a company picture 10 badge, or temporary name tag Issued by the County, clearly visible above the waist. Contractor employees/representatives who! arrive at the County/School facility without appropriate identification badges will immediately be dismissed from the job site.

I know that's not a very satisfying answer - and it has nothing to do with the approved vendors list (because that wasn't a part of the question I had asked) - but that's all I have for you.
Link to the full contract: http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/cregister/ContractDetails.aspx?contractNumber=4400003780

NewHorizon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Link to the full contract:
> http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/cregister/ContractDetails.aspx?contractNumber=4400003780

Lots of stuff in that contract, by the way, meant to help ensure the safety and security of our children. So if/when/how the FCPS-Booster contract applies to individual Fun Runs under the PTA contracts is a pretty serious question.

Yet, to my knowledge, although maybe I'm wrong or I'm forgetful, I'm the only one actively trying to look into this. But this is FFXU, so I guess my expectations are met.

I'm working on it too. I have posed the very same question (interaction of FCPS and PTA contracts). Supposedly, S. Lockard, Ed.D. is going to respond to me.

If nothing else, it is going to be hard for Garza and friends to claim that Boosterthon is a PTA/PTO only thing. The disclosure of the FCPS contracts makes that impossible, and opens the door to a lot more questioning.

I also asked for some records and they didn't have any. You are doing a great job
with this, New Horizon.

"Lots of stuff in that contract, by the way, meant to help ensure the safety and security of our children. So if/when/how the FCPS-Booster contract applies to individual Fun Runs under the PTA contracts is a pretty serious question."

^^That is a very serious issue. I think somebody is clinging to a fantasy that there is some type of relationship with the FCPS/Booster contract and the situations where the parents have signed a contract or an individual school has signed one. I am not feeling or seeing anything that supports this. I think it is a figment of their imagination. They just wish it was related.

------They say that Booster is legitimately contracted with FCPS (I know, I know - there's the whole activation question that's still unresolved) and as such, the Booster people must be vetted and meet contractual obligations.------

First they say they don't have a contract or agreement w/ Boosterthon, then they say they do. They are nuts. If the contract isn't activated, it doesn't mean anything. FCPS tried to dump the whole thing on the PTA/O's and turn their backs on parents. "We don't have a contract, we can't help you." Then "oh, we have a contract, so everything is OK, but we still can't help you on certain things". "They are operating under the community use regulation." "Oh yeh, they AREN'T operating under the community use regulation because that only applies to after school things."

They are full of s--t.

I don't like the idea of their doing all of this stuff at the expense of taxes and instructional time.

The amount of waste in the County is ridiculous, Sharon Bulova is a joke and needs to go, the same can be said of Karen Garza.

The PTO at my school certainly does not reflect my wishes. Why am I bound by their wishes? Can I set up another PTO? How does this work? I really object to the loss of instructional time in favor of these silly Boosterthon people turning kids into salesmen.

PTO alternative? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The PTO at my school certainly does not reflect my
> wishes. Why am I bound by their wishes? Can I set
> up another PTO? How does this work? I really
> object to the loss of instructional time in favor
> of these silly Boosterthon people turning kids
> into salesmen.
__________________________________________________________________

^^^^^^You are not bound by their wishes. You don't have to give them any money. You don't have to participate in anything they do. Tell the school system to quit wasting instructional hours on fundraisers and you will be done with it. If you want to give the school money write the school a check.

vendor statement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did West Springfield ES get the statement form on
> Booster Enterprises? Did the school system ever get one?

Paragraph 44.1 of the signed FCPS-Booster contract serves as the "Certificate Regarding Criminal Convictions", according to FCPS.
Contract: http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/cregister/ContractDetails.aspx?contractNumber=4400003780

I don't plan to pursue the question of why Booster isn't on the list of approved vendors.

---

"Children should not be the primary means of soliciting within fundraising activities."
"The anticipation of a successful fundraising event should not cloud the judgment of the PTA or be exploited by those outside the PTA who may have something to gain privately."
"And children should never be exploited or used as fundraisers."
National PTA - http://www.pta.org/mobile/OCArticle.cfm?ItemNumber=4192

" The regular school day schedule should not be disrupted, nor should the children be expected to give up their free time"
" A PTA or PTSA is not a moneymaking or money-raising organization."
" Material aid to the school is not the function of a PTA or PTSA."
VA PTA - http://www.vapta.org/new-unit-document-package/doc_download/2345-section-04-financial-management.html (PDF)
Boost the Children   

PTO alternative? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can I set up another PTO? How does this work?

This is about the time of year where parents vote for NEXT year's PTA/O board.
So talk to those parents and see if enough of them will vote only for the people who promise not to do a Boosterthon next year.

You're not technically obligated to have your kid(s) participate, as was mentioned, but he/she/they are probably experiencing a lot of peer pressure.

Can you imagine the chaos if someone brought up Boosterthon at this meeting about the school board raises?

something fun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you imagine the chaos if someone brought up
> Boosterthon at this meeting about the school board
> raises?

A good litmus test.
If nobody brings up Boosterthon at this meeting, then the assumption that their jobs are not at risk over Boosterthons is probably reasonable.

(I don't plan to be there.)

Twice I've signed up to speak and they ran out of time. For all I know they manipulate the speakers list. Certainly FCPS knows Boosterthon is an issue. Certainly FCPS knows people not happy about this raise. What good does it do McElveen etc. if they voted out of office this year?

Looks like Fairhill ES opted out of Boosterthon.

"In lieu of the Boosterthon fundraiser, the Fairhill PTA is holding a 50/50 Raffle Drawing to coincide with our Spring Carnival."

http://www.fairhillpta.org/latest-news-1/5050raffle

If anybody here has kids there, hopefully you might support the raffle.

Im confused. It looks like Fairhill's raffle hopes to work by:

1. "each student has been given five tickets to sell" - students are being given 5 tickets and are expected to go sell them. students selling things as the primary method of fundraising.

2. "the remaining 50% will go to Fairhill PTA" - the PTA will only profit 50% of the total funds raised, the other 50% will go to the individuals who help raise the funds in the form of some prizes.

Aren't these the two big issues you have with these fun run companies...Students involved in fundraising and a % of funds going somewhere other than the school. Seems like a double standard if you ask me. I've always said, "you have to spend money to make money" so i have no problem with schools giving % of funds raised away in order to raise those funds. This whole thread seems like a personal crusade if you ask me.

[F. Restrictions
1. Group competition that puts pressure on individuals to participate is prohibited.
****2. School-sponsored raffles and sales of raffle tickets by students on school premises
are prohibited.]

****Students are not allowed to sell raffle tickets on school grounds. It sounds like they are going to sell these off campus. This is sponsored by the PTA, not the school, so that is OK. Students might be used to raise these funds, in which case the money is supposed to run through school accounts, but it can't, because school-sponsored raffles are not allowed, so this is NOT OK.


It needs to be made very clear that the students and parents are not required to sell (or buy) any of these tickets. Is it? What information went out with the tickets? Somebody post a copy of it. If the family is not interested in selling (or buying) the tickets they have the right to turn them back in unsold.

And yes, the PTA is not going to keep all the money. No different than Boosterthon. Those who don't win one of the prizes will have nothing, just like they have nothing with Boosterthon. Half of their money will go to a private individual.


Where is that updated Reg. 1370?

Reg. 5810-----

2. Revenue from cooperative activities, PTA, and booster clubs, involving property or
students, must be recorded in the school activity fund records.*


*The parents have to sell the tickets in order for this raffle to happen.

Confused Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aren't these the two big issues you have with
> these fun run companies...Students involved in
> fundraising and a % of funds going somewhere other
> than the school. Seems like a double standard if
> you ask me.

Sorry - I didn't read completely. Apologies for the confusion.

Putting the issue of child-involvment aside for the moment....

"you have to spend money to make money"...

...and that's fine. But let's be up front about it.
"50/50" is pretty upfront, obviously.

Hell, even if it's a 98/02 raffle (PTA gets 2%) and contributors are still willing to buy in, then by all means, go for it.

But if nobody mentions the "98/02" part, wouldn't there be complaints? Or is that OK because well, you have to spend money to make money and anybody who complains is just on a "personal crusade"?

Same sorta thing with Boosterthons - as shown in complaints here at FFXU and elsewhere. At a PTA meeting, I asked what's the downside to letting Boosterthon contributors know up front - at time of pledging - what percentage of the child-generated funds go to Booster? The PTA prez replied along the lines of, "Well, I'll say it. We'd have few contributions."

That just disrespects our contributors and risks damaging the reputation of the PTA - a group committed to high community standards - and thus its ability to fundraise.

Hoping to move to the SF Bay area but don't have a job lined up?
Good news! Apex is hiring! /sarc

compensation: $500-$1500 per contract
contract job / part time

Hiring today! Sales--Young, rapidly-growing, socially-conscious elementary fundraising and leadership development company is seeking a self-motivated, driven, experienced sales person to share program with area Principals, Volunteers, and PTAs.

Must care deeply about fitness, leadership, and raising well-needed funds for elementary schools. Needs to be outgoing and great with people. Bonus incentives available. Commission-pay, but could develop into an hourly or even full time position. Get in on the ground floor and help bring leadership and fitness to young children in the Bay Area. Check out our website and see if this is the right fit for you! www.apexfunrun.com.

Ideal candidates are parents with PTA experience, teachers, and people that have experience working with youth programs. Get trained and Start today! Please respond with your email address and your resume so we can get back to you!

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sls/4956098298.html

"Confused" has a point and a lot of the comments on here seem to point to a personal crusade by NewHorizon against Boosterthon. Kids are selling raffle tickets and you promote that, but somehow asking for pledges for a run are different? I would say that participating in and raising money through a fun run benefits the kids a lot more than selling raffle tickets. Prizes for kids selling tickets is the same as prizes for pledges.

The PTA keeping 50% with this raffle is less than the % they keep when they do a Boosterthon and the kids get way more out of the Boosterthon program for the 48% the company gets. The comparisons go on and on, yet you promote one and demonize the other. All of this points to some other motive NewHorizon besides "just looking out for the kids" as you preach. I encourage anyone that reads this to read through all of NewHorizons posts and besides it being the same rhetoric repeated over and over, it's hippo critical and would appear that that person is just continually trying to fan the flames to keep the fire burning.

And further to that, when the poster "confused" questions your post and motives your only reply is to deflect then post a job ad from some other fun run company? Let's change the subject right!?

Ad hominem comments aren't something I'll address.

But I thought I had addressed "confused" ....
http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1136940/page-8.html#msg-1827855
...(which you didn't comment on) and THEN posted a fun little diversion (which you commented on).

In any case, the National PTA standards and Virginia PTA standards (see sig) weren't written in a vacuum, they're there for a reason. Why talk about NewHorizon instead of PTA policies?

---

"Children should not be the primary means of soliciting within fundraising activities."
"The anticipation of a successful fundraising event should not cloud the judgment of the PTA or be exploited by those outside the PTA who may have something to gain privately."
"And children should never be exploited or used as fundraisers."
National PTA - http://www.pta.org/mobile/OCArticle.cfm?ItemNumber=4192

" The regular school day schedule should not be disrupted, nor should the children be expected to give up their free time"
" A PTA or PTSA is not a moneymaking or money-raising organization."
" Material aid to the school is not the function of a PTA or PTSA."
VA PTA - http://www.vapta.org/new-unit-document-package/doc_download/2345-section-04-financial-management.html (PDF)
Boost the Children   

It is interesting. I came from a topix thread and they claim that this New Horizon guys real name is John Koch and there is a lot of suspicion that he is being paid to say all of this because of how much he is posting during work hours. He only goes after fun run companies even though the product sale fundraisers charge a whole lot more, offer a whole lot less and are 100% focused on students selling. Maybe one of those companies hired him.

What happened to New Horizon owing a daycare? That ate up two whole pages. There have been some really good points brought up here. Anybody can post here and pretend they are anybody. So what?

Post a link to Topix.

Really nice write-up:
http://thinkprogress.org/education/2015/04/03/3640081/boosterthon-apex-fundrunners-keep-half/

-----Asked what the best alternative to commercial fundraisers during school time would be, she proposed a simple idea: “I recommend adequate school funding, so kids can learn in school and not be put into the fundraising world, so teachers can teach, and administrators can administrate.”--------

You people don't pay enough taxes, so we are going take the instructional time that you pay for dearly and brainwash and pressure your kid and drive the parents nuts.

I just ran across this article on a different website.

http://thinkprogress.org/education/2015/04/03/3640081/boosterthon-apex-fundrunners-keep-half/

The Boosterthon and Apex shills are definitely losing the PR war, despite spending millions on it, attacking all critics, paying to clean up the internet of any blog negative about their exploitation of kids, and the profits made off them.

The fun run scammers look at children, the way oil exploration companies view oil in the ground. Just a commodity to mined, exploited and sold. Drill baby, drill!!!!!!!!!!!!!Pump it! Pump it! Pump it! Money! Money! Money!

New Horizon is right on the money.

Stop the Apex and Boosterthon Fun Run scams!!!!!!!!!!!

This forum has a huge audience, that's why Apex and Boosterthon are attacking it. Like most forums, hardly anybody posts, they just read, but there are many more people than new horizon posting about fun run scams.

What scam exactly are all you people talking about? Do you even know the definition of scam? Boosterthon is a fundraiser...that's it. PTAs and schools have a very good understanding of how it works and they choose to signup. Please, using the definition of scam explain to me how it's a scam? I'm a parent from a school that used Boosterthon and it was amazing. The kids got a LOT more out of it then when they sold chocolate bars and chocolate keeps half. For 50% we get chocolate bars. Check out Boosterthons website and see what the kids get from Boosterthon. Hardly a scam

Must be a bunch of liberals on this site. Always think "evil" corporate America is out to get everyone.

You're right, many people do read this site and they can see that the posts are by the same few people just repeating the same rhetoric over and over trying to fan the flames because they have nothing better to do. You realize you're spending days of your life demonizing a school fundraiser...that's all it is, just a school fundraiser. Don't you think that if Boosterthon was so bad they wouldn't have been in business over 10 years now and serve over 1000 of the top schools in the country? You're but a few small voices amongst the many that love Boosterthon.

What scam? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What scam exactly are all you people talking
> about? Do you even know the definition of scam?

I know this is a long thread, but did you read anything posted before the last 24 hours? A few highlights to answer your question:

At a school PTA meeting, I asked what's the downside to letting Boosterthon contributors know up front - at time of pledging - what percentage of the child-generated funds go to Booster? The PTA prez replied along the lines of, "Well, I'll say it. We'd have fewer contributions." Ick. But hey, it beats selling candy bars, eh? :-/

The Fun Runs violate: " Children should not be the primary means of soliciting within fundraising activities." -National PTA
http://www.ptakit.org/Fundraising/Fundraising-and-the-Purpose-of-PTA/Standards-for-PTA-Fundraising.aspx

For it's part, Booster Enterprises can put on Fun Runs where the children aren't the ones soliciting. Wait ........ what's that you say? There aren't enough adults willing to make the calls? So instead, we're using Booster staff paid with child-generated funds to entice the children to do what adults don't want to do?!?

As was noted in the thinkprogress.org article, the VA PTA prohibits fundraising during school hours.

(The PTA, as you may know, has a century-long tradition of child advocacy. Their thought-out standards are there in the interest of the children. Is violating them OK because Boosterthons are lucrative and convenient?)

Maybe this is different in other districts, but as confirmed by my school's principal, the character-building sessions don't cover anything new. Rather, the fundraising company - again, using staff paid with child-generated funds - only repeat (she used the word "reinforce") the lessons taught by qualified FCPS school counselors paid by taxes.

It's not clear how much FCPS is paying school staff during the time when they step back while Booster staff run multi-day Fun Run activities.

It's also not clear if the protections for the children as provided in the provisions of the central FCPS-Booster contract apply when the Boosterthon is run under a PTA-Booster contract.

I hope that answers your question. If y'all want to join in the conversation by labeling those who are concerned with words like liberal or mean-spirited or insignificant or whatever, that's your choice. I prefer to focus on the kids and to a lesser extent, the contributors and taxpayers.

---

"Children should not be the primary means of soliciting within fundraising activities."
"The anticipation of a successful fundraising event should not cloud the judgment of the PTA or be exploited by those outside the PTA who may have something to gain privately."
"And children should never be exploited or used as fundraisers."
National PTA - http://www.pta.org/mobile/OCArticle.cfm?ItemNumber=4192

" The regular school day schedule should not be disrupted, nor should the children be expected to give up their free time"
" A PTA or PTSA is not a moneymaking or money-raising organization."
" Material aid to the school is not the function of a PTA or PTSA."
VA PTA - http://www.vapta.org/new-unit-document-package/doc_download/2345-section-04-financial-management.html (PDF)
Boost the Children   

"It's not clear how much FCPS is paying school staff during the time when they step back while Booster staff run multi-day Fun Run activities."


=================================
Try this-FULL SALARY.

Somebody already did a tally of what fundraising during the school day, using instructional hours, costs the taxpayers. $13.60 per hour per student.

Go eat some jelly beans.

New Horizon, you are completely misguided in your understanding. You're twisting things so it fits your agenda.

What your PTA person said has nothing to do with how Boosterthon operates. Her not sharing the % is her call and her reasoning is her opinion. That doesn't make it fact yet you use it as if it's fact, just to try to substantiate your argument.

You talk about violating national PTA standards...so I guess thousands of PTAs nationwide are violating standards?? Or is it possible that again you're twisting words to fit your agenda. Boosterthon doesn't make anyone do anything. PTAs choose to sign up and the company is growing so there must be some disconnect between the way you perceive the policies, and reality.

And you keep mentioning "child generated funds". Do you really think kids are the ones generating most of the pledges? No. Parents are the "primary means of fundraising". The parents ask people to pledge their child, just like with every other fundraiser the parents are the main driver. If kids are making phone calls to relatives without their parents permission then that's on the parents for not paying attention to what their kids are doing.

With all the real national and international issues going on in the world if you want to continue wasting your time debating a school fundraiser then more power to you. But continuing to repeat the same old rhetoric is just getting old.

PTA guidelines have the clout of a wet noodle. The use of instructional time is the key to this.

Go here:

http://thinkprogress.org/education/2015/04/03/3640081/boosterthon-apex-fundrunners-keep-half/

And you can see the White Oaks ES PTA head ADMIT that people complained about Boosterthon's use of instructional time, so what happened? They did Boosterthon on recess time.

IMHO, it is time for the school board and present "Garza" administration to go and take Boosterthon with them.

Recess is a mandated part of the school day as per the Code of Virginia. We are still paying staff to run recess and supervise Boosterthon. Kids should not have to give up their play time to raise money for a PTA or school system.

Maybe this whole Boosterthon controversy means are board is too busy to consider tranny bathrooms for kindergarten class rooms. So if for nothing else I'm glad we have to deal with BT. And if we get some extra funds for schools, that's icing on the cake.

One sided Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And you keep mentioning "child generated funds".
> Do you really think kids are the ones generating
> most of the pledges? No. Parents are the "primary
> means of fundraising". The parents ask people to
> pledge their child, just like with every other
> fundraiser the parents are the main driver.

Well I'd love for that to be the case. And it's very possible to do it that way, of course. But there's this:
https://funrun.com/sponsor/a6e4b79384c682a557a87a8c8e2e1bed07682c6d
and/or go to YouTube and search there for "funrun.com" (including the double-quotes). Is it correct to assume from your comments that you're not ok with this? Or are you pretty much in anti-NewHorizon mode?

The FCPS office of Safety and Security had this and another video of an FCPS student referred to the FCPS office of Procurements "so enforcement action can be taken." (I haven't been able to determine what happened once the matter was turned over to the Procurements office.)

These videos are created at the suggestion of Booster (http://www.boosterthon.com/pledgesecrets/ )

Please understand - I'm not against Booster Enterprises. But it's not acceptable for ANybody (Booster, FCPS, PTA...) to run roughshod - willfully or unwittingly - over standards, guidelines, contracts, etc. intended to protect the kids. For larger national or international issues, there's almost certainly a forum out there for each of them.

NewHorizon..in reply to this: "Well I'd love for that to be the case. And it's very possible to do it that way, of course. But there's this:
https://funrun.com/sponsor/a6e4b79384c682a557a87a8c8e2e1bed07682c6d
and/or go to YouTube and search there for "funrun.com" (including the double-quotes)."

Again, do you really think these kids are making videos on their own without their parents knowledge? Parents make the decisions for their kids. If the parent wants to make a video they do, if they don't want to make a video they don't. A company can promote the idea but ultimately it's the parents decision whether to do it or not.

Parents are being scammed. They don't get the full story about Boosterthon, and many are influenced by the apparent endorsement from the schools/PTAs/PTOs. If they REALLY knew what was going on, they would not participate.

Parents make the choice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again, do you really think these kids are making
> videos on their own without their parents
> knowledge? Parents make the decisions for their
> kids. If the parent wants to make a video they do,
> if they don't want to make a video they don't. A
> company can promote the idea but ultimately it's
> the parents decision whether to do it or not.

That's a thoughtful reply. But I'm not saying the kids aren't supervised. They ARE given a script to read to all prospective donors - as shown in the videos. The kids are the ones asking. And the ones asking are the one generating revenue because, of course, there's no revenue if nobody asks for it. Hence "child-generated funds".

Please understand that I'm not trying to split hairs just to support an agenda.

For its part, the National PTA says it would be easy to flip this around so that the PARENT was making the ask. Yes, the parents can put up photos or videos or whatever of their kids, but the National PTA is clear that the ask needs to come from the parent - by voice, in the case of videos. The solicitation need to be made on BEHALF of the kids, not BY the kids. This may seem a subtle distinction, but the National PTA, in their long-standing role as child advocates, are pretty clear that this distinction is actually quite important. Send me a private message if you want the contact info of the person at the National PTA who's been able to clarify for me.

But meanwhile, if the parents realized that they're violating PTA guidelines - guidelines meant to protect kids - I'm pretty sure the vast majority wouldn't allow their kids to make the ask. For those parents who want to overrule the National PTA, yes, that's their choice. But let's at least give them that choice. As it stands now, as was commented by another, the parents only know that the school PTA has given its blessing. And I feel rather certain the school PTAs aren't up to speed on this.

HTH?

Look this PTA thing is all for naught. If children are used to raise funds, which by running them for money children are being used, the school regulations call for the money to run through the school system. Which means the contract should run through the school system. Even if the parents get the pledges, the students are doing the run. So, you should be dealing with FCPS on this. They need to set this up to comply with their regulations, which say "no fundraising to interrupt the school day". The school day includes lunch, recess, etc. If they want to do this, it needs to be outside of school hours. Period. End of discussion.

Well it has been posted here that Angela Atwater, Ed.D. considers the matter closed. I guess I will too when I go to vote, will hope that the new school board (especially that little weirdo Ryan McElveen) sends them on their way.

We had Boosterthon at our school. They met with our whole PTA board and Principal for over 2 hours to go over in detail how the program works. So we had a very good understanding of the inner workings of the program. It's overwhelmingly supported at our school.

All of the PTA board has kids at the school so we also see it from both sides, as a PTA member and as a parent and some teachers at our school have kids that attend so they see it from both sides and they support the program.

Parents have to login to create a pledge page, so it's really the parents not the kids that are the driver of the fundraiser. I had my kids make their own calls and video because I wanted them to be involved with the process. My decision on how I parent my child is mine alone to make. And any other kids that made a video or calls is because their parents wanted them to.

We always have a few parents that complain no matter what we do at the school. Usually it's the same few parents every time. We try to please everyone but just can't. Some people just like to complain and your group on here is probably those few people. Principals and PTA's already know who you are and they expect it...I promise. You're definitely in a minority though because many many people at our school support the Boosterthon event. The reason people at your school and FCPS are saying the matter is closed is because they know no matter what they do you'll keep complaining so they just ignore it, because you're just a noisy few.

My kids Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We had Boosterthon at our school. They met with
> our whole PTA board and Principal for over 2 hours
> to go over in detail how the program works. So we
> had a very good understanding of the inner
> workings of the program. It's overwhelmingly
> supported at our school.
>
> All of the PTA board has kids at the school so we
> also see it from both sides, as a PTA member and
> as a parent and some teachers at our school have
> kids that attend so they see it from both sides
> and they support the program.
>
> Parents have to login to create a pledge page, so
> it's really the parents not the kids that are the
> driver of the fundraiser. I had my kids make their
> own calls and video because I wanted them to be
> involved with the process. My decision on how I
> parent my child is mine alone to make. And any
> other kids that made a video or calls is because
> their parents wanted them to.
>
> We always have a few parents that complain no
> matter what we do at the school. Usually it's the
> same few parents every time. We try to please
> everyone but just can't. Some people just like to
> complain and your group on here is probably those
> few people. Principals and PTA's already know who
> you are and they expect it...I promise. You're
> definitely in a minority though because many many
> people at our school support the Boosterthon
> event. The reason people at your school and FCPS
> are saying the matter is closed is because they
> know no matter what they do you'll keep
> complaining so they just ignore it, because you're
> just a noisy few.

If you think Boosterthon is so great, do it OUTSIDE of school hours and OFF OF school property. My taxes pay for the school and staff, I object to them being used to finance Boosterthon.

Fine, YOU pay for it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My kids Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We had Boosterthon at our school. They met with
> > our whole PTA board and Principal for over 2
> hours
> > to go over in detail how the program works. So
> we
> > had a very good understanding of the inner
> > workings of the program. It's overwhelmingly
> > supported at our school.
> >
> > All of the PTA board has kids at the school so
> we
> > also see it from both sides, as a PTA member
> and
> > as a parent and some teachers at our school
> have
> > kids that attend so they see it from both sides
> > and they support the program.
> >
> > Parents have to login to create a pledge page,
> so
> > it's really the parents not the kids that are
> the
> > driver of the fundraiser. I had my kids make
> their
> > own calls and video because I wanted them to be
> > involved with the process. My decision on how I
> > parent my child is mine alone to make. And any
> > other kids that made a video or calls is
> because
> > their parents wanted them to.
> >
> > We always have a few parents that complain no
> > matter what we do at the school. Usually it's
> the
> > same few parents every time. We try to please
> > everyone but just can't. Some people just like
> to
> > complain and your group on here is probably
> those
> > few people. Principals and PTA's already know
> who
> > you are and they expect it...I promise. You're
> > definitely in a minority though because many
> many
> > people at our school support the Boosterthon
> > event. The reason people at your school and
> FCPS
> > are saying the matter is closed is because they
> > know no matter what they do you'll keep
> > complaining so they just ignore it, because
> you're
> > just a noisy few.
>
> If you think Boosterthon is so great, do it
> OUTSIDE of school hours and OFF OF school
> property. My taxes pay for the school and staff, I
> object to them being used to finance Boosterthon.

Schools pay for programs all the time. With Booster the program is included. They aren't financing Boosterthon...Booster is raising money for schools. Schools are able to purchase much needed technology and supplies with the money raised from Boosterthon. The whole arguement of whatever an hour you say it "costs" the schools to use Boosterthon is completely rediculous. How much is recess "costing" you as a tax payer? How much is lunch "costing" you as a tax payer...why don't the kids eat in class so the teachers can keep teaching? How about character assemblies, drug awareness assemblies, school play rehearsal, field trips, earth day tree platings, and the list goes on. There are more things that are enriching to education besides staring at a text book. Boosterthon is a character program during the day and at night with parents its a fundraiser. I would MUCH rather my kids get a character program with a fundraiser instead of cookie dough with a fundraiser.

For all the people complaining I'll bet you're the same people that fight a tax increase when the schools need more money. And regardless of what you'll say on here, I'll bet the last time you wrote a check to the school was a long time ago if ever. You do know the PTA is made up of volunteers...parents that give their time to benefit the kids. Have any of you volunteered for your PTA like we did? No...because it's easier for you to stand in the back of the room and complain, then to step up and help out.

The other poster was right, you're just a loud few and eventually your kids go to another school and we don't have to listen to you complain anymore.

Lunch and recess cost the taxpayers $13.60 per child per hour for about an hour a day. Kids are supposed to have recess and lunch and not be subjected to being used to earn money for adults.

Please explain how Boosterthon builds character in ways the schools don't already.

Please explain Boosterthon's qualifications to do this-the place seems staffed by graduates of unaccredited schools and college dropouts. They would not be qualified to teach in Virginia.

Cool Beans Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lunch and recess cost the taxpayers $13.60 per
> child per hour for about an hour a day. Kids are
> supposed to have recess and lunch and not be
> subjected to being used to earn money for adults.


Again, parents choose to let their kids participate in the pledge asking process.

The money raised pays for technology and other things that benefit all the kids. Your arguement is lame


Boosterthon = Character? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please explain how Boosterthon builds character in ways the schools don't already.

> Please explain Boosterthon's qualifications to do this-the place seems staffed by graduates of unaccredited schools and college dropouts. They would not be qualified to teach in Virginia.

A Boosterthon team is a lot more energizing and exciting in the way they present a character program. A 60 year old teacher isn't going to excite the kids about character education. Which one do you think the kids will really learn from and get excited about?

Boosterthon never claims to be cerified teachers. Lots of youth programs are staffed by people other than certified teachers. You ever send your kids to summer camps, youth camps, church camps, sports camps etc? Do the staff members at those hold VA teaching degrees?

@Your arguments: You're just a fuckin' shill for Boosterthon. Ya gotta be kidding that the grunt Boosterthon assholes build any kind of character in the kids, when all they are is a bunch of religious right, burned out college kids (who couldn't get a job otherwise, except maybe at McDonalds) who are desperately trying to make a buck, when their bosses are raking in all of the dough by taking 50% of the proceeds (and more with the extra fees). Why in the fucking hell would anyone trust people that have no training in teaching kids to try to instill "character" and other values, particularly when they waste precious teaching time.

My kids Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We had Boosterthon at our school. They met with
> our whole PTA board and Principal for over 2 hours
> to go over in detail how the program works. So we
> had a very good understanding of the inner
> workings of the program. It's overwhelmingly
> supported at our school.

Were the PTA fundraising standards (see my sig below) given any weight at the meeting?

> We always have a few parents that complain no
> matter what we do at the school.

Not a good reason for sending PTA standards out the window.

---

"Children should not be the primary means of soliciting within fundraising activities."
"The anticipation of a successful fundraising event should not cloud the judgment of the PTA or be exploited by those outside the PTA who may have something to gain privately."
"And children should never be exploited or used as fundraisers."
National PTA - http://www.pta.org/mobile/OCArticle.cfm?ItemNumber=4192

" The regular school day schedule should not be disrupted, nor should the children be expected to give up their free time"
" A PTA or PTSA is not a moneymaking or money-raising organization."
" Material aid to the school is not the function of a PTA or PTSA."
VA PTA - http://www.vapta.org/new-unit-document-package/doc_download/2345-section-04-financial-management.html (PDF)
Boost the Children   

For those who are members of an FCPS PTA or PTO who do Boosterthons, would you mind asking your PTA/O if the FCPS-Booster contract applies to the Boosterthon? To help get their attention, explain that you're asking because the FCPS-Booster contract contains a rather comprehensive set of provisions which protect the kids - whereas the PTA/O contracts do not.

I asked my own PTA last week. No answer, but I think they're getting tired of hearing from me.

Link to the FCPS-Booster contract: http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/cregister/ContractDetails.aspx?contractNumber=4400003780

Your arguments are rediculous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A Boosterthon team is a lot more energizing and
> exciting in the way they present a character
> program. A 60 year old teacher isn't going to
> excite the kids about character education. Which
> one do you think the kids will really learn from
> and get excited about?

There are NUMEROUS elements of the FCPS curriculum which could stand such improvement. Why prioritize THIS one in terms of time and money - and do it through the use staff from a for-profit fundraising company paid by child-generated funds?

Answer: because it's lucrative.

Perhaps this might help- Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "God give me strength to accept the things I
> cannot change, the courage to change the things I
> can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

UPDATE: A fix to funrun.com
http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read.php?2,1687747,1833272,page=2#msg-1833272

WTHolyF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Your arguments: You're just a fuckin' shill for
> Boosterthon. Ya gotta be kidding that the grunt
> Boosterthon assholes build any kind of character
> in the kids, when all they are is a bunch of
> religious right, burned out college kids (who
> couldn't get a job otherwise, except maybe at
> McDonalds) who are desperately trying to make a
> buck, when their bosses are raking in all of the
> dough by taking 50% of the proceeds (and more with
> the extra fees). Why in the fucking hell would
> anyone trust people that have no training in
> teaching kids to try to instill "character" and
> other values, particularly when they waste
> precious teaching time.

Wow, your language makes you sound really intelligent.

They don't "take 50% of the proceeds". Boosterthon pays for t-shirts, prizes, curriculum materials and more for every kid at the school out of the % that goes to them. A good chunk of that 50% goes right back to the kids.

When a school puts on their own fun run, they use a good chunk of the proceeds to buy t-shirts, prizes etc. So no matter which way you cut it up a good chunk of the proceeds goes to purchasing items for the event...whether Boosterthon purchases them or the school does it works out the same. Boosterthon buys in bulk so they get better prices that if a school purchases the items so most of the time when a school uses Boosterthon MORE money actually goes back to the school than if they do their own run and buy those things.

Booster = better Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> They don't "take 50% of the proceeds". Boosterthon
> pays for t-shirts, prizes, curriculum materials
> and more for every kid at the school out of the %
> that goes to them. A good chunk of that 50% goes
> right back to the kids.

Not really a good reason to throw out the PTA standards against children soliciting, nor the VA PTA standards against fundraising during school hours.

But OK, to your point: Booster Enterprises incurs a lot of overhead, no doubt. But to mention ONLY the materials brought into the school leaves your argument unfinished. So let's take your line of thought and follow it to its conclusion.

Beyond materials passed out to the kids, there's also the cost of the staff who passes out the materials and puts on the Boosterthons, the management that supports the staff, the rent for the office that houses the management, etc, etc. Without all that, the kids wouldn't get prizes 'n stuff, right? Then if you also subtract out the cost of summer missions, surely Booster's "take" is in the single digit percentage.

How magnanimous of Booster. :-/

If you look at Brett Trapp's Facebook, he's been on "Boosterthon business" trips to Japan and Australia recently. More of YOUR tax money wasted. Hopefully the Japanese and Australians aren't wooed by this overgrown frat boy.

NewHorizon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Booster = better Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > They don't "take 50% of the proceeds".
> Boosterthon
> > pays for t-shirts, prizes, curriculum materials
> > and more for every kid at the school out of the
> %
> > that goes to them. A good chunk of that 50%
> goes
> > right back to the kids.
>
> Not really a good reason to throw out the PTA
> standards against children soliciting, nor the VA
> PTA standards against fundraising during school
> hours.
>
> But OK, to your point: Booster Enterprises incurs
> a lot of overhead, no doubt. But to mention ONLY
> the materials brought into the school leaves your
> argument unfinished. So let's take your line of
> thought and follow it to its conclusion.
>
> Beyond materials passed out to the kids, there's
> also the cost of the staff who passes out the
> materials and puts on the Boosterthons, the
> management that supports the staff, the rent for
> the office that houses the management, etc, etc.
> Without all that, the kids wouldn't get prizes 'n
> stuff, right? Then if you also subtract out the
> cost of summer missions, surely Booster's "take"
> is in the single digit percentage.
>
> How magnanimous of Booster. :-/

Those are called "costs of doing business". Every business has costs. What's your point?

My point is and this is a fact: Most schools that use Boosterthon end up retaining a higher % of the funds raised compared to putting on their own run. And the PTA's net profit ends up being double on average compared to putting on their own run. PTAs raise more money which goes back to the kids through PTA events and purchases that benefit all the kids at the school. For the money that goes to Boosterthon the kids get an educational program experience rather than a box of cookie dough. What's so wrong with that?? And try to come up with something new rather than repeating the same few one liners over and over and over.

You keep repeating "children soliciting" and similar wording. I've seen numerous posts on here that indicate that the parents are the ones primarily asking for pledges unless they choose to involve their kids. Why do you keep repeating the same thing over and over when reality is to the contrary?

What is honestly your agenda? You really need to get a life.

Booster foreign travel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you look at Brett Trapp's Facebook, he's been
> on "Boosterthon business" trips to Japan and
> Australia recently. More of YOUR tax money wasted.
> Hopefully the Japanese and Australians aren't
> wooed by this overgrown frat boy.


You people are OBSESSED with a man and his school fundraising company. I'm not sure if that's just weird, or sad or both.

The following quote pretty much sums up why no matter how many fact based arguments are presented on here in support of the Boosterthon program, a few people keep twisting the same words to fit their agenda. NewHorizon continuing to repeat "children soliciting" etc even though facts have been presented to the contrary. It all makes perfect sense to me now. You will make things up if you need to to support your agenda.

"Liberals maintain that there is only one side to every story. Their side. Because their political views are a matter of faith rather than opinion, it is impossible to engage them in rational debate. Liberals believe passionately that whatever it takes to impose their philosophies on the public is justified."

Bunch of crazies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You keep repeating "children soliciting" and
> similar wording. I've seen numerous posts on here
> that indicate that the parents are the ones
> primarily asking for pledges unless they choose to
> involve their kids. Why do you keep repeating the
> same thing over and over when reality is to the
> contrary?

Who gets the prepared scripts to pitch to prospective contributors?
Who's been asked at the school to read those scripts?
For me personally, the answer to both is: my daughter.

From a Booster-produced video: "Instead of selling something, students will help their school by getting pledges from friends and family."
https://vimeo.com/102154475

"GET PLEDGES by connecting your student with 10 sponsors."
http://www.gfespta.com/boosterthon-fun-run.html

And then if those YouTube videos mentioned earlier aren't "reality" enough, I'm pretty sure there's nothing that will convince you.

If Boosterthon's leaders are indicative of what Boosterthon accomplishes for the kids, your kid will be lucky to get into a bottom tier school, take five years to graduate, and fixate on Greek life. Oh, the most relevant job skill they get is door to door sales. They can work for Cutco, Vector, Zerin, or Amway.

NewHorizon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bunch of crazies Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You keep repeating "children soliciting" and
> > similar wording. I've seen numerous posts on
> here
> > that indicate that the parents are the ones
> > primarily asking for pledges unless they choose
> to
> > involve their kids. Why do you keep repeating
> the
> > same thing over and over when reality is to the
> > contrary?
>
> Who gets the prepared scripts to pitch to
> prospective contributors?
> Who's been asked at the school to read those
> scripts?
> For me personally, the answer to both is: my
> daughter.
>
> From a Booster-produced video: "Instead of selling
> something, students will help their school by
> getting pledges from friends and family."
> https://vimeo.com/102154475
>
> "GET PLEDGES by connecting your student with 10
> sponsors."
> http://www.gfespta.com/boosterthon-fun-run.html
>
> And then if those YouTube videos mentioned earlier
> aren't "reality" enough, I'm pretty sure there's
> nothing that will convince you.

The script is to make sure pledgers are getting the correct information. You say Boosterthon isn't transparent then when they make an effort to be transparent by providing a script so pledgers get the correct info, you blast them for it.

Your other items in your post point to parents being the driver. "GET PLEDGES by connecting your student with 10 sponsors." for example.

So does your daughter just go around doing whatever she wants without any parent oversight? You make it sound like Boosterthon "makes" your daughter do all those things. Maybe you're different but most parents approve or disapprove what their kids do and supervise them while they're doing it. Did your daughter ever come home with a cookie dough catalog and go out and sell it for a week without your knowledge? I doubt it. She probably came home and showed you the materials and you sold the items or maybe had her get involved by asking some people. Boosterthon is no different than other fundraisers in that regard.

I'll bet you're one of those parents that blames McDonalds for an overweight kid because they "lure" kids in so its all evil McDonalds fault.

@ALL SUPPORTERS OF BOOSTERTHON ON THIS SITE: Of course, I'm being a troll and devils' advocate, but its the principle of the whole damn thing, and often--pun intended--it seems the actual principal or other school or PTA officials that are to blame. The supporters all accuse New Horizon of having an agenda against Boosterthon. I wholeheartedly support New Horizon delving into the morass of dishonesty (whether overt or by means of omission) about this whole Boosterthon thing. My whole point related to my philosophy of public education is that there should be NO commercialization of the public schools for the unscrupulous benefit of outside parties. Whether it be the greedy vendors selling all of their crappy junk food snacks and drinks on school grounds, all of the commercialization of fund drives for band, PTA, school equipment etc. the point is that the commercial parties will lie through their teeth to get their share of the Almighty Buck if not closely monitored (which seems to be lacking in the cases where there have been problems with Boosterthon). With respect to Boosterthon (and Apex) I smell a rat as there just seem to be too many stories (although not really verified) of donors pledging so much per lap for their sponsored kid, then to find out that the kid is just doing laps around a 5 foot circle or something equally dishonest. Also the dishonesty about not letting donors know that Boosterthon/Apex takes 50% of the proceeds (plus additional hidden fees). The supporters claim that they make more money using Boosterthon than if they handled the whole event with volunteers, but that is beside the point with all of the dishonesty involved, which if known by donors would likely involve less money donated and stifle their generosity in the future. IN CONCLUSION: BE HONEST IN ALL OF YOUR TRANSACTIONS, WHOEVER YOU ARE, WHEN DEALING WITH THE PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS AND THEIR FAMILIES! And I mean everyone: outside commercial parties, school staff and teachers, PTA's, parents and, of course, the kids themselves.

WTHolyF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ALL SUPPORTERS OF BOOSTERTHON ON THIS SITE: Of
> course, I'm being a troll and devils' advocate,
> but its the principle of the whole damn thing, and
> often--pun intended--it seems the actual principal
> or other school or PTA officials that are to
> blame. The supporters all accuse New Horizon of
> having an agenda against Boosterthon. I
> wholeheartedly support New Horizon delving into
> the morass of dishonesty (whether overt or by
> means of omission) about this whole Boosterthon
> thing. My whole point related to my philosophy of
> public education is that there should be NO
> commercialization of the public schools for the
> unscrupulous benefit of outside parties. Whether
> it be the greedy vendors selling all of their
> crappy junk food snacks and drinks on school
> grounds, all of the commercialization of fund
> drives for band, PTA, school equipment etc. the
> point is that the commercial parties will lie
> through their teeth to get their share of the
> Almighty Buck if not closely monitored (which
> seems to be lacking in the cases where there have
> been problems with Boosterthon). With respect to
> Boosterthon (and Apex) I smell a rat as there just
> seem to be too many stories (although not really
> verified) of donors pledging so much per lap for
> their sponsored kid, then to find out that the kid
> is just doing laps around a 5 foot circle or
> something equally dishonest. Also the dishonesty
> about not letting donors know that
> Boosterthon/Apex takes 50% of the proceeds (plus
> additional hidden fees). The supporters claim that
> they make more money using Boosterthon than if
> they handled the whole event with volunteers, but
> that is beside the point with all of the
> dishonesty involved, which if known by donors
> would likely involve less money donated and stifle
> their generosity in the future. IN CONCLUSION:
> BE HONEST IN ALL OF YOUR TRANSACTIONS, WHOEVER YOU
> ARE, WHEN DEALING WITH THE PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS AND
> THEIR FAMILIES! And I mean everyone: outside
> commercial parties, school staff and teachers,
> PTA's, parents and, of course, the kids
> themselves.

The fun run companies send home multiple pieces of literature telling parents the exact size of the track and how many average laps kids will run. If parents are upset because they pledged a large amount per lap only to find out the track is smaller than they thought, then that's on them for not reading the info. The "script" the kids are given is just one more piece of info to help get the correct information to the sponsors.

You all keep demonizing these companies but every effort they make is to be honest and transparent. If you don't like the program tell your PTA to use a different fundraiser. If you didn't know about the split ask your PTA to be more transparent about it. If you don't like any kind of fundraisers, write a check instead.

But instead you all keep getting fired up based on untruths or half truths that you read from other posters that are getting their half truths or untruths from other posters and for someone who's been on the PTA and seen these programs first hand, I can tell you that half of what you're reading is ridiculous and completely untrue. Having first hand experience, I laugh at a lot of the posts because they couldn't be further from the actual truth. You're venting your frustrations towards a fun run company when it really sounds like you're unhappy with the way your school/PTA handles their business dealings.

like all other fundraisers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So does your daughter just go around doing whatever
> she wants without any parent oversight?

If a kid reaches out to a registered sex offender, yes, that's on the parents. I think we're agreed on that.

But according to your logic, in the adult world, sales people don't actually generate revenue. Why?
Because they're just acting at the direction of and as proxy for their employer.
I don't see how anybody could be persuaded by that logic.

Who's doing the ask = who's gathering pledges.
Who's gathering pledges = who's generating revenue.
No "half-truths here. I don't know how it can be said more simply.

Oh, speaking of half-truths:

> You're venting your frustrations towards a fun run company
> when it really sounds like you're unhappy with the way your
> school/PTA handles their business dealings.

You missed the posts about how the PTA seems ok with being opaque about the percentage they keep. Or about how FCPS has been confusing and unresponsive. Or how Dr. Atwater has been out of line. Etc, etc.

Lots of missteps by lots of people - many to the detriment of the kids.

I know this is a huge thread. But to say that folks are just picking on Booster is completely untrue.

NewHorizon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> like all other fundraisers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So does your daughter just go around doing
> whatever
> > she wants without any parent oversight?
>
> If a kid reaches out to a registered sex offender,
> yes, that's on the parents. I think we're agreed
> on that.
>
> But according to your logic, in the adult world,
> sales people don't actually generate revenue.
> Why?
> Because they're just acting at the direction of
> and as proxy for their employer.
> I don't see how anybody could be persuaded by that
> logic.
>

The point you're missing is that if kids are doing the asking it's because their parents allow them to. Or are you now saying that parents shouldnt be allowed to make those decisions for their kids? All of this fundraiser is parent driven. If I want to allow my kid to make a video, which relatives think is cute by the way, or if I want to have them participate in the process by calling a few relatives then that's my choice alone to make.

Get rid of the school board in the upcoming election. Make the new board replace Garza, Atwater, and the rest of them. Adopt sane fundraising policies. Send Boosterthon packing.

Yes send the school board packing lol. Do you know how many complaints schools get every day from different parents that complain about different things? Do you really think a new school board would care about a few parents complaining about a school fundraiser?? They have better things to do. That's why you get ignored.